And what is Google really getting out of all these activations?
Apple's business model is so much more attractive: quality over quantity, profits over low-margin volume... Value for the customers in terms of usability and quality of experience (no fragmentation, no malware, etc.)...
Apple's net profits were $3 billion more than Google's revenues last quarter. Apple accounted for around 75% of the mobile phone industry's profits. What is Google really accomplishing with Android?
you have nailed it. apple is crying all the way to the bank about those activation numbers...
My cousin told me today he has had to take his android back to the store and get a new one each time is turns itself off. I guess they have to activate the new one each time.
I am sure they are counting all those activations too. I told him to buy an iphone and he won'thave that problem anymore. He said well the iphone was $100 the android was free.
He is on Verizon. He paid for extended warranty to keep getting the replacements. Add up the costs of the warranty, inconvience, and gas to and from the store 3 times and he paid more for the android than he would an iphone.
Unlike Apple, which is totally transparent and actually gives a breakdown of all devices it sells, there's no way to know what the breakdown and exact stats are with any of that fragmented Android baloney.
Why should anybody trust those figures? What percentage of those phones are free phones? What do they have to hide? Release real figures, not some vague sounding tweet.
I don't trust a heck of a lot that I hear from Google. For starters, their history is one of deception. Furthermore, they have no way of knowing how many activations are due to resetting bricked phones, changing of carriers, or so on.
That said, the numbers aren't unreasonable.
Samsung announced that they sold about 97 M smartphones in 2011. Google's 850 K per day comes to about 310 M.
Let's do the math:
1. Apple has about 25% share of smart phones. That means 'everyone else' is 75%.
2. Samsung wasn't that different from Apple's share. So Samsung was also around 25%.
3. If Samsung sold 97 M phones and they were 25% of the market, the total non-Apple phones is around 300 M. The large majority (around 80% were probably Android).
So that puts a back of the envelope calculation at around 240 M Android phones per year - which given the uncertainty in the numbers I'm using is in the right ballpark.
Of course, that all begs the question: who cares? Apple is by far the most successful smartphone vendor in terms of profitability and mind share. They continue to grow at very fast rates. They continue to have the most satisfied customers. Unless you foolishly expect Apple to have 100% of the market, I don't think anyone at Apple is unhappy with where they are.
Thats probably a sale in Apple's terminology, but I don't know since they may subsidise it.
Thats a sale and would be counted like that for Apple. So it is Apples and Apples here.
Thats a sale and would be counted like that for Apple.
This is true. But it also points out that when considering market share, a better metric may be user base, at least for a developer, etc. For instance, I have owned three iPhones, but I am only one user.
From what I've seen, when analyzing user base metrics that consider web browsing, ads viewed, apps downloaded, Apple usually is in the leader's position.
Please excuse this interruption but I would like to side track just for a minute.
Like a lot of you I once dismissed Android as just a cheap knockoff of iOS, I did so however without really never playing with the OS. Well after the company I worked for replaced our Blackberry's with Samsung's Galaxy Note I no longer felt that way. Even more so after I received a Asus Slider for Christmas.
Android, especially the newest version 4.03 is a much better tablet OS then iOS. Android might have been copying Apple when Google first released it but now it resembles iOS very little. In fact I see a lot of Android in iOS now, like the notification system.
My Asus Slider can feasibly be used as a notebook replacement. I'm a programmer who predominantly works with Java, Python, Perl and PHP and I have no problems getting actual work done, something that I was never able to accomplish with my iPod.
....and my Galaxy Note, well it's just bitchin. I love it to death, that screen size and resolution, the pen, the OS, has everything I need and does it so well that I rarely pick up my iPhone anymore.
There are a lot of crap Android products on the market, a lot but there are also a few that are very, very cool and are worthy of praise from the harshest critic.
I'm not a Apple or Android Zeolot, I'm just a computer geek who likes technology. I will never just stand by one company and nor should you. There are some really great products out there. Sorry for the interruption.
This is true. But it also points out that when considering market share, a better metric may be user base, at least for a developer, etc. For instance, I have owned three iPhones, but I am only one user.
From what I've seen, when analyzing user base metrics that consider web browsing, ads viewed, apps downloaded, Apple usually is in the leader's position.
User base is an interesting point. I have an 2-3 old non-smart phones hanging around my house. The resale value is zero, I haven't got around to recycling.
My two iPhones are sold - the first gen and the 3GS, as is an iPad 1. all are in use, I suspect except the first gen. Cheap Android phones are not being sold on I imagine.
Probably explains some of the other stats re internet usage metrics.
You seem awfully angry. Unless you have skin in the game, I would seek help.
So I just skimmed all of your posts on this forum, and not a single one of them had anything positive to say about Apple. They are 100 % negative. So, conclusion is that you're a fucking blatant troll, and I'm not interested in your response, since they will all be 100% predictable. Why does someone who hates a company so much and has absolutely nothing good to say about them or their products post constantly on the a fansite forum? Why don't you visit and post in forums based on companies you actually like? I'd challenge anyone here to view your post history and argue otherwise. Oh and nice troll name. How pathetic.
My cousin told me today he has had to take his android back to the store and get a new one each time is turns itself off. I guess they have to activate the new one each time.
I am sure they are counting all those activations too. I told him to buy an iphone and he won'thave that problem anymore. He said well the iphone was $100 the android was free.
He is on Verizon. He paid for extended warranty to keep getting the replacements. Add up the costs of the warranty, inconvience, and gas to and from the store 3 times and he paid more for the android than he would an iphone.
Is this satire? I mean, I hope you aren't trying to convince anyone that this is typical of Android devices and that in general, the activation numbers are inflated because "all android devices break regularly and generate perpetual activation counts". I've had several different android-running-things and only once did I have one replaced. Aside from your little story here, there's a lot of members on AI that will try to twist the activation number in one way or another to make Google's numbers appear "inaccurate." Maybe the real problem is google is not tracking ENOUGH information, while privacy advocates continually yell about them tracking too much.
The final quarter of 2011 brought with it record smartphone sales for AT&T, with a 9.4 million smartphones being sold in Q4, a figure that's nearly double that from the third quarter. More than 7.6 million of those sales were iPhones, most of which were the new iPhone 4S. AT&T also notes that it sold more iPhones than Verizon in 2011, claiming a total of 17.5 million iPhones sold last year compared to 10.8 million Verizon iPhones. As for Android, AT&T didn't provide specific sales figures, but it did say that "more than twice as many" Android devices were sold in Q4 2011 than were sold in Q4 2010.
I'm not sure how many iPhones were sold last year but lets say 100 million for sake of argument. Between AT&T and Verizon they sold around 25% of all iPhones sold (from above article).
Averaging that AT&T and Verizon each sold 8 million Androids in the same time period, extrapolating from AT&T stated sales = 16 million multiplied by the same ratio (25%) = 64 million Androids sold worldwide (average)
Divide that by 365 and you get = 175,000 per day +/-
My conclusion is that either Android SMARTPHONES (meaning something that closely resembles an iPhone) are selling 1000% better in other countries than in the US or they are padding the numbers in some way to include either dumb Androids or reactivations of some sort.
User base is an interesting point. I have an 2-3 old non-smart phones hanging around my house. The resale value is zero, I haven't got around to recycling.
My two iPhones are sold - the first gen and the 3GS, as is an iPad 1. all are in use, I suspect except the first gen. Cheap Android phones are not being sold on I imagine.
Probably explains some of the other stats re internet usage metrics.
That is a good point. All of my former iOS devices are being used by family members, friends, or others via Craigslist.
Considering Google is after "eyeballs", it's a tad ironic that it's iOS devices that continue to have "eyeballs" even past their initial sale.
Would the term "churn" be apt? Like with a carrier? A measure of how many net users (or "eyeballs") were added, based on the difference between new devices sold and devices that have fallen into disuse? Depending on the level of churn, it'd be like filling a bathtub with the drain open.
So I just skimmed all of your posts on this forum, and not a single one of them had anything positive to say about Apple. They are 100 % negative. So, conclusion is that you're a fucking blatant troll, and I'm not interested in your response, since they will all be 100% predictable. Why does someone who hates a company so much and has absolutely nothing good to say about them or their products post constantly on the a fansite forum? Why don't you visit and post in forums based on companies you actually like? I'd challenge anyone here to view your post history and argue otherwise. Oh and nice troll name. How pathetic.
I wasn't aware that one had to have a predetermined view of everything that Apple or another company does before posting on this forum. I happen to own Apple stock, btw.
Again with the cursing. You really need to calm down.
I don't find 850K a day hard to believe. You know Apple did 654K iOS devices per day during the last quarter.
The answer is just a couple articles below on the front page: "Cheap Android phones 'crushing' Apple's iPhone in countries without subsidies" with the emphasis on "cheap".
I doubt Apple cares about the total number of Android activations - they're only interested in the number of high-end activations that compete with their products. Apple doesn't sell $200 tablets nor do they sell $100 phones, so why should they be concerned with how many someone else sells?
Someone also made a comment about developers being the only ones interested in these kinds of numbers. And they're right. Developers aren't going to waste time developing for junk phones that aren't even capable of running a decent App.
Sould we bring back the old argument from the mid 1990s that Apple should license their OS or lose market share?
No they should, however, reduce their margins.
Frankly the company sounds embarrassed in calls about the cash mountain, its going to get to £200B this year, just hanging around, not adding much value.
Frankly the company sounds embarrassed in calls about the cash mountain, its going to get to £200B this year, just hanging around, not adding much value.
Except that Apple can use that cash as needed to make sure their supply chain isn't constricted if something unforeseen happens (Japanese earthquake or Taiwanese typhoon), if a good deal in an emerging tech arises (Anobit or Chomp), or if they use it to help their production contractors purchase equipment or retrofit production lines.
The money isn't burning an hole in anyone in Cupertino's pocket, and it shouldn't.
Frankly the company sounds embarrassed in calls about the cash mountain, its going to get to £200B this year, just hanging around, not adding much value.
You know what they say about value of something. It is worth what people are willing to pay for it. Unlike gasoline which people need to get to work, nobody really needs a Mac, iPhone or iPad. They are luxury items. The only reason to lower the price would be if sales were slowing, which they are not. Do the shareholders want the prices reduced? I don't think so. They may want a dividend but not less revenue or share value.
I wasn't aware that one had to have a predetermined view of everything that Apple or another company does before posting on this forum. I happen to own Apple stock, btw.
Again with the cursing. You really need to calm down.
Predetermined? When it's clear you despise the company, and every single one of your posts here is negative, I'm asking you to explain to me why you post on a forum about a company you hate. Their products don't excite you. You believe every single move they make is wrong. You get giddy when anything comes out against them or might put them in a bad light. You downplay any positive aspect someone might mention. Please, explain that to me in a logical fashion. When some of your posts are criticism, thats understandable. When 100% of them are, that's usually indicative of a troll. Please, enlighten me. Why do you spend time posting here, about a company you dislike, if not trolling?
Apple sold approximately 70 million iOS devices last quarter. If my math is correct, that is approximately 782K activations per day. Not a far cry from the quoted 850k for Android. Also I suspect that many of that 850k are cheap poor performing phones that can only run a subset of the Android Marketplace Apps. All Apple devices run the full compliment of apps.
Predetermined? When it's clear you despise the company, and every single one of your posts here is negative, I'm asking you to explain to me why you post on a forum about a company you hate. Their products don't excite you. You believe every single move they make is wrong. You get giddy when anything comes out against them or might put them in a bad light. You downplay any positive aspect someone might mention. Please, explain that to me in a logical fashion. When some of your posts are criticism, thats understandable. When 100% of them are, that's usually indicative of a troll. Please, enlighten me. Why do you spend time posting here, about a company you dislike, if not trolling?
Apple sold approximately 70 million iOS devices last quarter. If my math is correct, that is approximately 782K activations per day. Not a far cry from the quoted 850k for Android. Also I suspect that many of that 850k are cheap poor performing phones that can only run a subset of the Android Marketplace Apps. All Apple devices run the full compliment of apps.
True, but you can't iPad, iPod Touches, or AppleTVs because Google doesn't count Android activations on tablets, PMPs, HEC appliances or other devices... oh wait.
Comments
And what is Google really getting out of all these activations?
Apple's business model is so much more attractive: quality over quantity, profits over low-margin volume... Value for the customers in terms of usability and quality of experience (no fragmentation, no malware, etc.)...
Apple's net profits were $3 billion more than Google's revenues last quarter. Apple accounted for around 75% of the mobile phone industry's profits. What is Google really accomplishing with Android?
you have nailed it. apple is crying all the way to the bank about those activation numbers...
I am sure they are counting all those activations too. I told him to buy an iphone and he won'thave that problem anymore. He said well the iphone was $100 the android was free.
He is on Verizon. He paid for extended warranty to keep getting the replacements. Add up the costs of the warranty, inconvience, and gas to and from the store 3 times and he paid more for the android than he would an iphone.
I'm not impressed at all.
Unlike Apple, which is totally transparent and actually gives a breakdown of all devices it sells, there's no way to know what the breakdown and exact stats are with any of that fragmented Android baloney.
Why should anybody trust those figures? What percentage of those phones are free phones? What do they have to hide? Release real figures, not some vague sounding tweet.
I don't trust a heck of a lot that I hear from Google. For starters, their history is one of deception. Furthermore, they have no way of knowing how many activations are due to resetting bricked phones, changing of carriers, or so on.
That said, the numbers aren't unreasonable.
Samsung announced that they sold about 97 M smartphones in 2011. Google's 850 K per day comes to about 310 M.
Let's do the math:
1. Apple has about 25% share of smart phones. That means 'everyone else' is 75%.
2. Samsung wasn't that different from Apple's share. So Samsung was also around 25%.
3. If Samsung sold 97 M phones and they were 25% of the market, the total non-Apple phones is around 300 M. The large majority (around 80% were probably Android).
So that puts a back of the envelope calculation at around 240 M Android phones per year - which given the uncertainty in the numbers I'm using is in the right ballpark.
Of course, that all begs the question: who cares? Apple is by far the most successful smartphone vendor in terms of profitability and mind share. They continue to grow at very fast rates. They continue to have the most satisfied customers. Unless you foolishly expect Apple to have 100% of the market, I don't think anyone at Apple is unhappy with where they are.
Thats probably a sale in Apple's terminology, but I don't know since they may subsidise it.
Thats a sale and would be counted like that for Apple. So it is Apples and Apples here.
Thats a sale and would be counted like that for Apple.
This is true. But it also points out that when considering market share, a better metric may be user base, at least for a developer, etc. For instance, I have owned three iPhones, but I am only one user.
From what I've seen, when analyzing user base metrics that consider web browsing, ads viewed, apps downloaded, Apple usually is in the leader's position.
Like a lot of you I once dismissed Android as just a cheap knockoff of iOS, I did so however without really never playing with the OS. Well after the company I worked for replaced our Blackberry's with Samsung's Galaxy Note I no longer felt that way. Even more so after I received a Asus Slider for Christmas.
Android, especially the newest version 4.03 is a much better tablet OS then iOS. Android might have been copying Apple when Google first released it but now it resembles iOS very little. In fact I see a lot of Android in iOS now, like the notification system.
My Asus Slider can feasibly be used as a notebook replacement. I'm a programmer who predominantly works with Java, Python, Perl and PHP and I have no problems getting actual work done, something that I was never able to accomplish with my iPod.
....and my Galaxy Note, well it's just bitchin. I love it to death, that screen size and resolution, the pen, the OS, has everything I need and does it so well that I rarely pick up my iPhone anymore.
There are a lot of crap Android products on the market, a lot but there are also a few that are very, very cool and are worthy of praise from the harshest critic.
I'm not a Apple or Android Zeolot, I'm just a computer geek who likes technology. I will never just stand by one company and nor should you. There are some really great products out there. Sorry for the interruption.
This is true. But it also points out that when considering market share, a better metric may be user base, at least for a developer, etc. For instance, I have owned three iPhones, but I am only one user.
From what I've seen, when analyzing user base metrics that consider web browsing, ads viewed, apps downloaded, Apple usually is in the leader's position.
User base is an interesting point. I have an 2-3 old non-smart phones hanging around my house. The resale value is zero, I haven't got around to recycling.
My two iPhones are sold - the first gen and the 3GS, as is an iPad 1. all are in use, I suspect except the first gen. Cheap Android phones are not being sold on I imagine.
Probably explains some of the other stats re internet usage metrics.
You seem awfully angry. Unless you have skin in the game, I would seek help.
So I just skimmed all of your posts on this forum, and not a single one of them had anything positive to say about Apple. They are 100 % negative. So, conclusion is that you're a fucking blatant troll, and I'm not interested in your response, since they will all be 100% predictable. Why does someone who hates a company so much and has absolutely nothing good to say about them or their products post constantly on the a fansite forum? Why don't you visit and post in forums based on companies you actually like? I'd challenge anyone here to view your post history and argue otherwise. Oh and nice troll name. How pathetic.
My cousin told me today he has had to take his android back to the store and get a new one each time is turns itself off. I guess they have to activate the new one each time.
I am sure they are counting all those activations too. I told him to buy an iphone and he won'thave that problem anymore. He said well the iphone was $100 the android was free.
He is on Verizon. He paid for extended warranty to keep getting the replacements. Add up the costs of the warranty, inconvience, and gas to and from the store 3 times and he paid more for the android than he would an iphone.
Is this satire? I mean, I hope you aren't trying to convince anyone that this is typical of Android devices and that in general, the activation numbers are inflated because "all android devices break regularly and generate perpetual activation counts". I've had several different android-running-things and only once did I have one replaced. Aside from your little story here, there's a lot of members on AI that will try to twist the activation number in one way or another to make Google's numbers appear "inaccurate." Maybe the real problem is google is not tracking ENOUGH information, while privacy advocates continually yell about them tracking too much.
This from AT&T Q4 stated last month
The final quarter of 2011 brought with it record smartphone sales for AT&T, with a 9.4 million smartphones being sold in Q4, a figure that's nearly double that from the third quarter. More than 7.6 million of those sales were iPhones, most of which were the new iPhone 4S. AT&T also notes that it sold more iPhones than Verizon in 2011, claiming a total of 17.5 million iPhones sold last year compared to 10.8 million Verizon iPhones. As for Android, AT&T didn't provide specific sales figures, but it did say that "more than twice as many" Android devices were sold in Q4 2011 than were sold in Q4 2010.
I'm not sure how many iPhones were sold last year but lets say 100 million for sake of argument. Between AT&T and Verizon they sold around 25% of all iPhones sold (from above article).
Averaging that AT&T and Verizon each sold 8 million Androids in the same time period, extrapolating from AT&T stated sales = 16 million multiplied by the same ratio (25%) = 64 million Androids sold worldwide (average)
Divide that by 365 and you get = 175,000 per day +/-
My conclusion is that either Android SMARTPHONES (meaning something that closely resembles an iPhone) are selling 1000% better in other countries than in the US or they are padding the numbers in some way to include either dumb Androids or reactivations of some sort.
User base is an interesting point. I have an 2-3 old non-smart phones hanging around my house. The resale value is zero, I haven't got around to recycling.
My two iPhones are sold - the first gen and the 3GS, as is an iPad 1. all are in use, I suspect except the first gen. Cheap Android phones are not being sold on I imagine.
Probably explains some of the other stats re internet usage metrics.
That is a good point. All of my former iOS devices are being used by family members, friends, or others via Craigslist.
Considering Google is after "eyeballs", it's a tad ironic that it's iOS devices that continue to have "eyeballs" even past their initial sale.
Would the term "churn" be apt? Like with a carrier? A measure of how many net users (or "eyeballs") were added, based on the difference between new devices sold and devices that have fallen into disuse? Depending on the level of churn, it'd be like filling a bathtub with the drain open.
So I just skimmed all of your posts on this forum, and not a single one of them had anything positive to say about Apple. They are 100 % negative. So, conclusion is that you're a fucking blatant troll, and I'm not interested in your response, since they will all be 100% predictable. Why does someone who hates a company so much and has absolutely nothing good to say about them or their products post constantly on the a fansite forum? Why don't you visit and post in forums based on companies you actually like? I'd challenge anyone here to view your post history and argue otherwise. Oh and nice troll name. How pathetic.
I wasn't aware that one had to have a predetermined view of everything that Apple or another company does before posting on this forum. I happen to own Apple stock, btw.
Again with the cursing. You really need to calm down.
The answer is just a couple articles below on the front page: "Cheap Android phones 'crushing' Apple's iPhone in countries without subsidies" with the emphasis on "cheap".
I doubt Apple cares about the total number of Android activations - they're only interested in the number of high-end activations that compete with their products. Apple doesn't sell $200 tablets nor do they sell $100 phones, so why should they be concerned with how many someone else sells?
Someone also made a comment about developers being the only ones interested in these kinds of numbers. And they're right. Developers aren't going to waste time developing for junk phones that aren't even capable of running a decent App.
Sould we bring back the old argument from the mid 1990s that Apple should license their OS or lose market share?
No they should, however, reduce their margins.
Frankly the company sounds embarrassed in calls about the cash mountain, its going to get to £200B this year, just hanging around, not adding much value.
Frankly the company sounds embarrassed in calls about the cash mountain, its going to get to £200B this year, just hanging around, not adding much value.
Except that Apple can use that cash as needed to make sure their supply chain isn't constricted if something unforeseen happens (Japanese earthquake or Taiwanese typhoon), if a good deal in an emerging tech arises (Anobit or Chomp), or if they use it to help their production contractors purchase equipment or retrofit production lines.
The money isn't burning an hole in anyone in Cupertino's pocket, and it shouldn't.
No they should, however, reduce their margins.
Frankly the company sounds embarrassed in calls about the cash mountain, its going to get to £200B this year, just hanging around, not adding much value.
You know what they say about value of something. It is worth what people are willing to pay for it. Unlike gasoline which people need to get to work, nobody really needs a Mac, iPhone or iPad. They are luxury items. The only reason to lower the price would be if sales were slowing, which they are not. Do the shareholders want the prices reduced? I don't think so. They may want a dividend but not less revenue or share value.
I wasn't aware that one had to have a predetermined view of everything that Apple or another company does before posting on this forum. I happen to own Apple stock, btw.
Again with the cursing. You really need to calm down.
Predetermined? When it's clear you despise the company, and every single one of your posts here is negative, I'm asking you to explain to me why you post on a forum about a company you hate. Their products don't excite you. You believe every single move they make is wrong. You get giddy when anything comes out against them or might put them in a bad light. You downplay any positive aspect someone might mention. Please, explain that to me in a logical fashion. When some of your posts are criticism, thats understandable. When 100% of them are, that's usually indicative of a troll. Please, enlighten me. Why do you spend time posting here, about a company you dislike, if not trolling?
Predetermined? When it's clear you despise the company, and every single one of your posts here is negative, I'm asking you to explain to me why you post on a forum about a company you hate. Their products don't excite you. You believe every single move they make is wrong. You get giddy when anything comes out against them or might put them in a bad light. You downplay any positive aspect someone might mention. Please, explain that to me in a logical fashion. When some of your posts are criticism, thats understandable. When 100% of them are, that's usually indicative of a troll. Please, enlighten me. Why do you spend time posting here, about a company you dislike, if not trolling?
I don't hate Apple. Nothing more to it.
Apple sold approximately 70 million iOS devices last quarter. If my math is correct, that is approximately 782K activations per day. Not a far cry from the quoted 850k for Android. Also I suspect that many of that 850k are cheap poor performing phones that can only run a subset of the Android Marketplace Apps. All Apple devices run the full compliment of apps.
True, but you can't iPad, iPod Touches, or AppleTVs because Google doesn't count Android activations on tablets, PMPs, HEC appliances or other devices... oh wait.