Your downplaying of what could potentially be a doubling of processor speed aside, when a device is almost entirely a screen, a double resolution display IS a big deal.
Are the only metrics you'd consider significant case design? Would you have preferred thinner and lighter with no internal improvements?
Regarding spec impressiveness, yes, it's a big update, but regarding user experience I think most people over the age of less than perfect eye sight will have trouble justifying a five hundred dollar price tag for minimal difference in functionality. Don't get me wrong, I've owned the first and the second iPad, and use my current iPad2 every day for browsing and reading, but I'm skipping this iteration.
For me, a "significant" upgrade expands functionality...and yes, that does include making it lighter. If the iPad3 felt like the old Kindle DX (won't happen for years) but had the exact same specs it does now, I'd upgrade in a heartbeat. That's significant. I never hold the iPad in one hand for longer than a few seconds. Second, I want whatever it takes to get sensory density (or whatever you call it) such that I can write handwritten notes on the fly and not have to write three times bigger for the hardware not to make a mess of it. As much as Apple hates a stylus, even after several decades of personal computing, post-it notes and notepads are still a staple of professional life. If I can write on a tablet or a phone and not feel that I have to text the info in or feel limited by the hardware, I'd upgrade simply for that. 3rd, I want a complete Pages or MS Word application...not some cheap version that can't handle my formatting. The iPad is useless to me as a productivity device (to me, personally, given what I do) because I run into formatting issues. When I can open a dropbox folder in MS Word or Pages and seemlessly continue working on what I had been on my desktop, I'll upgrade for that ability alone. Fourth: a keyboard with a profile similar to the magnetic smart cover. Without that, I might as well be using my macbook air.
Those four things would make me upgrade, individually, on their own merits. Until then, all I see are incremental spec bumps...better camera (which I don't need), faster processor..(for games I don't play), better resolution (I don't need but looks pretty), etc.
I'm not whining - I think technology takes time and our hopes and expectations are usually more fantastic than the speed of technology. I agree with you that in relative terms, the processor and screen are a big upgrade, but I think the person you were responding to had in mind things more similar to what I mentioned. Spec bumps don't add significant functionality...for MY use.
Those four things would make me upgrade, individually, on their own merits.
Apple will likely add each one, but only one at a time. That way, most of their customers will buy a new iPad each time, for a total of 4. Putting all that into one new product would cut total sales by 75%.
Same old same old with a better CPU = not significant.
I will bet you the next iPad (a5x) will not have 4 cores, it will just be faster. More cores is not always the way to go with battery life considerations.
I will bet you the next iPad (a5x) will not have 4 cores, it will just be faster. More cores is not always the way to go with battery life considerations.
The Tegra 3 that everybody else is adopting yields better battery life.
The Tegra 3 that everybody else is adopting yields better battery life.
Better than what?
Please show us a Tegra 3 tablet with comparable size and performance to the iPad which gets measurably better battery life.
Or, after the iPad 3 comes out, do the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol77
Regarding spec impressiveness, yes, it's a big update, but regarding user experience I think most people over the age of less than perfect eye sight will have trouble justifying a five hundred dollar price tag for minimal difference in functionality. Don't get me wrong, I've owned the first and the second iPad, and use my current iPad2 every day for browsing and reading, but I'm skipping this iteration.
That's undoubtedly true. I don't think anyone expects Apple (or any other company, for that matter) to release a product which will make EVERYONE happy.
For me, when I got my iPhone 4 with retina display, I had the same problem - my near vision was no longer good enough to see the difference - so I started wearing my reading glasses. I can still use it without them, but with the reading glasses, I get the benefit of all the extra resolution. So it's entirely up to the user.
I will bet you the next iPad (a5x) will not have 4 cores, it will just be faster. More cores is not always the way to go with battery life considerations.
BeltsBear you would likely lost that bet and here is why.
When taking in account battery life it's really just simple math. The A5 processor is fabricated on a 45nm process. The new processors coming out this year are fabricated on 28 or 32nm which is a considerable shrink.
This means less power and size and higher yields (hopefully) per wafer. What each vendor then does is make a decision. They have a certain range of power consumption their products can handle. Thus they must stay within this Thermal Design Power (TDP) range.
So the options are to increase the clock frequency of a dual core (as the smaller process allows for this) or bolt on another two cores running about the same frequency (which is what most vendors are doing)
But that doesn't answer your question really. Would Apple stick with Dual Core or move to Quad Core. Well that comes down to the the ARM processor itself. The Cortex A9 has 8 pipleline stage which is low in contrast to an Intel Core I5/I7 14 stage pipeline.
The more pipelines the higher you can clock a processor.
So at this point with only 8 pipelines the ARM core isn't likely going to clock high enough to make a significant different in speed as opposed to the benefits of adding another two cores (more execution units, cache, everything)
So in this bet the odds would be that you would lose unless Apple pulls the proverbial rabbit from the hat.
I may have overstated my case (based on all the criticism), but my complaint was more of a "writer's complaint," anyway. I am not disappointed, I'm just saying it's an overstatement to refer to it as "significant."
The word "significant" is ... well a significant, weighty word. To me, a "significant update" is something different and new, something with import or a new design that "changes the game" sort of speak.
This is a great update, but it's not that (at least IMO).
This is the "off year" update (second year of the same model design). It's more akin to a new coat of paint or the insertion of a slightly higher performance motor in a car than it is a whole new design.
I agree with most others here, and respectfully disagree with you... And in a way I think your argument kind of debunks your own thought. The only thing significant it wont have according to your definition is design. OK, so no "significant" design change.. That is fine by most people I think because the design looks so great already... Now with your other definitions of "significant": "something different and new, something with import or a new design that changes the game sort of speak" Im not really sure if this is still only talking about the design... The design will not be that different. What will be different?? LOTS.. The screen my friend, I think you are underestimating what a feat it is to get these screens at the price point they will. NO other competitor will come close (as usual). Also faster performance, better camera, and Siri... I would say these are pretty "significant" and I think a lot of other people agree... Bottom line is, I think you defined significant as a "game changer"... Do you really think this new IPad is NOT going to be a game changer...?? I personally think it is going to set a new precedent for quite some time to come... We will look back at this IPad and realize this is truly when the game changed... I actually think its kind of crazy that you dont think this is "significant" but we are all entitled to our own opinions... Its fun to discuss those opinions though..!!
For those that don't think this is significant I'd proffer that your expectations have shifted
based on the rumor mill.
I for one didn't think a Retina display could be done affordably in 9.7 and that alone is significant. When I look at my mother's 27" iMac and realize that all those pixels are being crammed into a screen size that is far smaller I'm amazed.
For those that don't think this is significant I'd proffer that your expectations have shifted
based on the rumor mill.
I for one didn't think a Retina display could be done affordably in 9.7 and that alone is significant. When I look at my mother's 27" iMac and realize that all those pixels are being crammed into a screen size that is far smaller I'm amazed.
Exactly! That amazing display is enough reason to upgrade. but it doesn't stop there. There will be other improvements I am sure.
I agree with most others here, and respectfully disagree with you... And in a way I think your argument kind of debunks your own thought. The only thing significant it wont have according to your definition is design. OK, so no "significant" design change.. That is fine by most people I think because the design looks so great already... Now with your other definitions of "significant": "something different and new, something with import or a new design that changes the game sort of speak" Im not really sure if this is still only talking about the design... The design will not be that different. What will be different?? LOTS.. The screen my friend, I think you are underestimating what a feat it is to get these screens at the price point they will. NO other competitor will come close (as usual). Also faster performance, better camera, and Siri... I would say these are pretty "significant" and I think a lot of other people agree... Bottom line is, I think you defined significant as a "game changer"... Do you really think this new IPad is NOT going to be a game changer...?? I personally think it is going to set a new precedent for quite some time to come... We will look back at this IPad and realize this is truly when the game changed... I actually think its kind of crazy that you dont think this is "significant" but we are all entitled to our own opinions... Its fun to discuss those opinions though..!!
Then show us one which has better battery life than the iPad 3.
Oh, yeah. You can't. You simply make things up and hope no one notices.
(For that matter, go ahead and show a 10" tablet with Tegra 3 with better battery life than the iPad 2).
You seem to be laboring under the delusion that the CPU is the only factor determining battery life.
All other things being equal, my point is valid. You want an example where no other thing is equal. That makes sense only if one labors under your delusion.
I agree with most others here, and respectfully disagree with you... And in a way I think your argument kind of debunks your own thought. The only thing significant it wont have according to your definition is design. OK, so no "significant" design change.. That is fine by most people I think because the design looks so great already... Now with your other definitions of "significant": "something different and new, something with import or a new design that changes the game sort of speak" Im not really sure if this is still only talking about the design... The design will not be that different. What will be different?? LOTS.. The screen my friend, I think you are underestimating what a feat it is to get these screens at the price point they will. NO other competitor will come close (as usual). Also faster performance, better camera, and Siri... I would say these are pretty "significant" and I think a lot of other people agree... Bottom line is, I think you defined significant as a "game changer"... Do you really think this new IPad is NOT going to be a game changer...?? I personally think it is going to set a new precedent for quite some time to come... We will look back at this IPad and realize this is truly when the game changed... I actually think its kind of crazy that you dont think this is "significant" but we are all entitled to our own opinions... Its fun to discuss those opinions though..!!
Agreed. Well, Apple rolls out one update per year for all of its major products so it should be a significant update. Compare this fact to stuff coming out from the likes of Samsung, LG, HTC, Motorola, Sony, etc. every few months. The screen is a big deal. There's just no comparison between the screens of my iPhone 4S and that of the iPad 2. A Retina (or something close to) Display on the iPad will be amazing. After all, the display screen itself is the computer that you're interacting with.
I'll have to sit this one out though... I got the iPad 2 for myself and my wife as well last summer and it's too early to upgrade now. I guess I'll be getting the even number iterations of both the iPhone and iPad models in the future. Every other year is the way to go. Upgrading every year seems a little silly no matter how much one is enamored with all things Apple. But that's just me...
The higher resolution is great, but I am not suffering from the current resolution at all. Never once have I said I just need this but at a higher resolution.
Not interested in LTE. I don't have the 3G model right now.
A better camera like the iPhone's would be great but the iPad is too big to be a go-to camera.
Siri looks great on the iPhone but call me skeptical that I need it for the iPad. I don't see myself talking to my iPad.
And if LTE and the higher resolution give me worse battery life all the more reason to pass.
I really need a built in, slide out and flip up thin keyboard. and more responsiveness.
Same old same old with a better CPU = not significant.
dont tell me, tell the whiners!
I guarantee that in a weeks time the internets will be awash with bad press. I don't write the stuff, I don't agree with the stuff. But I have a pretty good idea as to how this new iPad will be received .
Comments
Your downplaying of what could potentially be a doubling of processor speed aside, when a device is almost entirely a screen, a double resolution display IS a big deal.
Are the only metrics you'd consider significant case design? Would you have preferred thinner and lighter with no internal improvements?
Regarding spec impressiveness, yes, it's a big update, but regarding user experience I think most people over the age of less than perfect eye sight will have trouble justifying a five hundred dollar price tag for minimal difference in functionality. Don't get me wrong, I've owned the first and the second iPad, and use my current iPad2 every day for browsing and reading, but I'm skipping this iteration.
For me, a "significant" upgrade expands functionality...and yes, that does include making it lighter. If the iPad3 felt like the old Kindle DX (won't happen for years) but had the exact same specs it does now, I'd upgrade in a heartbeat. That's significant. I never hold the iPad in one hand for longer than a few seconds. Second, I want whatever it takes to get sensory density (or whatever you call it) such that I can write handwritten notes on the fly and not have to write three times bigger for the hardware not to make a mess of it. As much as Apple hates a stylus, even after several decades of personal computing, post-it notes and notepads are still a staple of professional life. If I can write on a tablet or a phone and not feel that I have to text the info in or feel limited by the hardware, I'd upgrade simply for that. 3rd, I want a complete Pages or MS Word application...not some cheap version that can't handle my formatting. The iPad is useless to me as a productivity device (to me, personally, given what I do) because I run into formatting issues. When I can open a dropbox folder in MS Word or Pages and seemlessly continue working on what I had been on my desktop, I'll upgrade for that ability alone. Fourth: a keyboard with a profile similar to the magnetic smart cover. Without that, I might as well be using my macbook air.
Those four things would make me upgrade, individually, on their own merits. Until then, all I see are incremental spec bumps...better camera (which I don't need), faster processor..(for games I don't play), better resolution (I don't need but looks pretty), etc.
I'm not whining - I think technology takes time and our hopes and expectations are usually more fantastic than the speed of technology. I agree with you that in relative terms, the processor and screen are a big upgrade, but I think the person you were responding to had in mind things more similar to what I mentioned. Spec bumps don't add significant functionality...for MY use.
Nevertheless...excited to see it...
Those four things would make me upgrade, individually, on their own merits.
Apple will likely add each one, but only one at a time. That way, most of their customers will buy a new iPad each time, for a total of 4. Putting all that into one new product would cut total sales by 75%.
Crazy.
LTE
Retina Display
Quad core chip
1 Gig RAM
Siri
All together = significant.
Same old same old with a better CPU = not significant.
I will bet you the next iPad (a5x) will not have 4 cores, it will just be faster. More cores is not always the way to go with battery life considerations.
I will bet you the next iPad (a5x) will not have 4 cores, it will just be faster. More cores is not always the way to go with battery life considerations.
The Tegra 3 that everybody else is adopting yields better battery life.
The Tegra 3 that everybody else is adopting yields better battery life.
Better than what?
Please show us a Tegra 3 tablet with comparable size and performance to the iPad which gets measurably better battery life.
Or, after the iPad 3 comes out, do the same thing.
Regarding spec impressiveness, yes, it's a big update, but regarding user experience I think most people over the age of less than perfect eye sight will have trouble justifying a five hundred dollar price tag for minimal difference in functionality. Don't get me wrong, I've owned the first and the second iPad, and use my current iPad2 every day for browsing and reading, but I'm skipping this iteration.
That's undoubtedly true. I don't think anyone expects Apple (or any other company, for that matter) to release a product which will make EVERYONE happy.
For me, when I got my iPhone 4 with retina display, I had the same problem - my near vision was no longer good enough to see the difference - so I started wearing my reading glasses. I can still use it without them, but with the reading glasses, I get the benefit of all the extra resolution. So it's entirely up to the user.
I will bet you the next iPad (a5x) will not have 4 cores, it will just be faster. More cores is not always the way to go with battery life considerations.
BeltsBear you would likely lost that bet and here is why.
When taking in account battery life it's really just simple math. The A5 processor is fabricated on a 45nm process. The new processors coming out this year are fabricated on 28 or 32nm which is a considerable shrink.
This means less power and size and higher yields (hopefully) per wafer. What each vendor then does is make a decision. They have a certain range of power consumption their products can handle. Thus they must stay within this Thermal Design Power (TDP) range.
So the options are to increase the clock frequency of a dual core (as the smaller process allows for this) or bolt on another two cores running about the same frequency (which is what most vendors are doing)
But that doesn't answer your question really. Would Apple stick with Dual Core or move to Quad Core. Well that comes down to the the ARM processor itself. The Cortex A9 has 8 pipleline stage which is low in contrast to an Intel Core I5/I7 14 stage pipeline.
The more pipelines the higher you can clock a processor.
So at this point with only 8 pipelines the ARM core isn't likely going to clock high enough to make a significant different in speed as opposed to the benefits of adding another two cores (more execution units, cache, everything)
So in this bet the odds would be that you would lose unless Apple pulls the proverbial rabbit from the hat.
I may have overstated my case (based on all the criticism), but my complaint was more of a "writer's complaint," anyway. I am not disappointed, I'm just saying it's an overstatement to refer to it as "significant."
The word "significant" is ... well a significant, weighty word. To me, a "significant update" is something different and new, something with import or a new design that "changes the game" sort of speak.
This is a great update, but it's not that (at least IMO).
This is the "off year" update (second year of the same model design). It's more akin to a new coat of paint or the insertion of a slightly higher performance motor in a car than it is a whole new design.
I agree with most others here, and respectfully disagree with you... And in a way I think your argument kind of debunks your own thought. The only thing significant it wont have according to your definition is design. OK, so no "significant" design change.. That is fine by most people I think because the design looks so great already... Now with your other definitions of "significant": "something different and new, something with import or a new design that changes the game sort of speak" Im not really sure if this is still only talking about the design... The design will not be that different. What will be different?? LOTS.. The screen my friend, I think you are underestimating what a feat it is to get these screens at the price point they will. NO other competitor will come close (as usual). Also faster performance, better camera, and Siri... I would say these are pretty "significant" and I think a lot of other people agree... Bottom line is, I think you defined significant as a "game changer"... Do you really think this new IPad is NOT going to be a game changer...?? I personally think it is going to set a new precedent for quite some time to come... We will look back at this IPad and realize this is truly when the game changed... I actually think its kind of crazy that you dont think this is "significant" but we are all entitled to our own opinions... Its fun to discuss those opinions though..!!
based on the rumor mill.
I for one didn't think a Retina display could be done affordably in 9.7 and that alone is significant. When I look at my mother's 27" iMac and realize that all those pixels are being crammed into a screen size that is far smaller I'm amazed.
For those that don't think this is significant I'd proffer that your expectations have shifted
based on the rumor mill.
I for one didn't think a Retina display could be done affordably in 9.7 and that alone is significant. When I look at my mother's 27" iMac and realize that all those pixels are being crammed into a screen size that is far smaller I'm amazed.
Exactly! That amazing display is enough reason to upgrade. but it doesn't stop there. There will be other improvements I am sure.
Analyst Shaw Wu with Sterne Agee said
Say no more...
I agree with most others here, and respectfully disagree with you... And in a way I think your argument kind of debunks your own thought. The only thing significant it wont have according to your definition is design. OK, so no "significant" design change.. That is fine by most people I think because the design looks so great already... Now with your other definitions of "significant": "something different and new, something with import or a new design that changes the game sort of speak" Im not really sure if this is still only talking about the design... The design will not be that different. What will be different?? LOTS.. The screen my friend, I think you are underestimating what a feat it is to get these screens at the price point they will. NO other competitor will come close (as usual). Also faster performance, better camera, and Siri... I would say these are pretty "significant" and I think a lot of other people agree... Bottom line is, I think you defined significant as a "game changer"... Do you really think this new IPad is NOT going to be a game changer...?? I personally think it is going to set a new precedent for quite some time to come... We will look back at this IPad and realize this is truly when the game changed... I actually think its kind of crazy that you dont think this is "significant" but we are all entitled to our own opinions... Its fun to discuss those opinions though..!!
+1 on all your statements. Great post!
Better than what?
Better than a duo-core system with equivalent processor capabilities.
Duh.
Better than a duo-core system with equivalent processor capabilities.
Duh.
Then show us one which has better battery life than the iPad 3.
Oh, yeah. You can't. You simply make things up and hope no one notices.
(For that matter, go ahead and show a 10" tablet with Tegra 3 with better battery life than the iPad 2).
Then show us one which has better battery life than the iPad 3.
Oh, yeah. You can't. You simply make things up and hope no one notices.
(For that matter, go ahead and show a 10" tablet with Tegra 3 with better battery life than the iPad 2).
You seem to be laboring under the delusion that the CPU is the only factor determining battery life.
All other things being equal, my point is valid. You want an example where no other thing is equal. That makes sense only if one labors under your delusion.
Wu.... who?
Wu's on first, Whoa's on second.
I agree with most others here, and respectfully disagree with you... And in a way I think your argument kind of debunks your own thought. The only thing significant it wont have according to your definition is design. OK, so no "significant" design change.. That is fine by most people I think because the design looks so great already... Now with your other definitions of "significant": "something different and new, something with import or a new design that changes the game sort of speak" Im not really sure if this is still only talking about the design... The design will not be that different. What will be different?? LOTS.. The screen my friend, I think you are underestimating what a feat it is to get these screens at the price point they will. NO other competitor will come close (as usual). Also faster performance, better camera, and Siri... I would say these are pretty "significant" and I think a lot of other people agree... Bottom line is, I think you defined significant as a "game changer"... Do you really think this new IPad is NOT going to be a game changer...?? I personally think it is going to set a new precedent for quite some time to come... We will look back at this IPad and realize this is truly when the game changed... I actually think its kind of crazy that you dont think this is "significant" but we are all entitled to our own opinions... Its fun to discuss those opinions though..!!
Agreed. Well, Apple rolls out one update per year for all of its major products so it should be a significant update. Compare this fact to stuff coming out from the likes of Samsung, LG, HTC, Motorola, Sony, etc. every few months. The screen is a big deal. There's just no comparison between the screens of my iPhone 4S and that of the iPad 2. A Retina (or something close to) Display on the iPad will be amazing. After all, the display screen itself is the computer that you're interacting with.
I'll have to sit this one out though... I got the iPad 2 for myself and my wife as well last summer and it's too early to upgrade now. I guess I'll be getting the even number iterations of both the iPhone and iPad models in the future. Every other year is the way to go. Upgrading every year seems a little silly no matter how much one is enamored with all things Apple. But that's just me...
The higher resolution is great, but I am not suffering from the current resolution at all. Never once have I said I just need this but at a higher resolution.
Not interested in LTE. I don't have the 3G model right now.
A better camera like the iPhone's would be great but the iPad is too big to be a go-to camera.
Siri looks great on the iPhone but call me skeptical that I need it for the iPad. I don't see myself talking to my iPad.
And if LTE and the higher resolution give me worse battery life all the more reason to pass.
I really need a built in, slide out and flip up thin keyboard. and more responsiveness.
LTE
Retina Display
Quad core chip
1 Gig RAM
Siri
All together = significant.
Same old same old with a better CPU = not significant.
dont tell me, tell the whiners!
I guarantee that in a weeks time the internets will be awash with bad press. I don't write the stuff, I don't agree with the stuff. But I have a pretty good idea as to how this new iPad will be received .
Exactly! That amazing display is enough reason to upgrade. but it doesn't stop there. There will be other improvements I am sure.
I, for one, won't buy an iPad until Siri can moan and beg.