For a camera phone you don't need a moving mirror. It would need to be fixed. But the other optical elements would move. A bunch of years ago, Phillips demo'd a tiny lens that could have its shape, and therefor it's focus, varied by applying a small voltage. The element wouldn't have to move at all, which is even better. There are also plastics in use now that will compress or expand depending on voltage. They could be used for purposes of focus or zoom. None of this would need a very high precision moving part, as the parts would simply resize themselves with very high precision.
There are also lenses used for cataract operations that will focus using the same muscles in the eye that the natural lens uses. Unfortunately, my doctor thought I wouldn't be a good candidate for them. But they can be focussed by pressure around the edges.
There are a lot of technologies around. The question is whether they are too expensive for this use.
Thanks, Mel!
That is encouraging... especially your last sentence!
With, what, 150 million iPhones in use and the potential for billions within years...
And 45 million iPads in use and the potential for 60-80 million more this year...
It seems like there could be great incentive to reduce the costs through economies of scale -- where every iPhone and iPad has a camera of acceptable quality for most uses.
It wasn't too long ago that multitouch was an expensive technology looking for a broad application...
1) How, exactly do you compare text (or images) on 2 different DPI displays -- Would you use an image taken on the lower DPI display? the higher DPI display?
2) Won't a rasterized image always show antialias pixillation at some magnification -- regardless of the screen resolution?
3) With today's technology, wouldn't it be possible to generate text characters as vector graphics -- where each character could scale infinitely with no apparent pixillation?
You would compare the images by making them the same dimension on each display. You can measure them with a ruler if necessary.
Images have built in antialiasing and unsharp masking which is always the same number of pixels so if you zoom you see the exaggeration of the pixillation. If you zoom a 72 dpi image 200%, on a traditional monitor, four screen pixels will represent one image pixel but since that original image pixel was only a single color all four device pixels will be that same color with interpolation and resampling having almost no effect.
Text on the other hand is rendered as curves prior to the antialiasing being applied. In this case, you can zoom on text infinitely and it will always be sharp, never showing pixillation except for the very slight antialiasing on the edges. The advantage that the new iPad has is that much less antialiasing is required due to higher resolution, resulting in sharper smoother curves.
Text is not really vectors in the sense that SVG is. Text has metrics which predefine the shape for many point sizes, where as true vectors are interpreting actual mathematical geometry on the fly which tends to be much more hardware demanding compared to rendering text. It might be likened to the difference between searching a database and searching an index. The speed is night and day difference.
Images have built in antialiasing and unsharp masking which is always the same number of pixels so if you zoom you see the exaggeration of the pixillation. If you zoom a 72 dpi image 200%, on a traditional monitor, four screen pixels will represent one image pixel but since that original image pixel was only a single color all four device pixels will be that same color with interpolation and resampling having almost no effect.
Text on the other hand is rendered as curves prior to the antialiasing being applied. In this case, you can zoom on text infinitely and it will always be sharp, never showing pixillation except for the very slight antialiasing on the edges. The advantage that the new iPad has is that much less antialiasing is required due to higher resolution, resulting in sharper smoother curves.
Text is not really vectors in the sense that SVG is. Text has metrics which predefine the shape for many point sizes, where as true vectors are interpreting actual mathematical geometry on the fly which tends to be much more hardware demanding compared to rendering text. It might be likened to the difference between searching a database and searching an index. The speed is night and day difference.
Ahh... Understand!
Thanks!
Edit: So, the text rendering is done on the target device by the OS or App?
There are some iPhone apps, Koi Pond for example, that render graphics perfectly on iPad 2 at 2x, and new iPad at 2x -- but the text in the menus is blocky -- I suppose that they used rasterized images of text, as opposed to text.
Is anybody else noticing that the last inch of the right side of the display kind of tilts upward a little bit? is it just me? Am I noticing things that aren't there? Is this a standard issue with these types of displays? Sorry, I am not a techie.
Is anybody else noticing that the last inch of the right side of the display kind of tilts upward a little bit? is it just me? Am I noticing things that aren't there? Is this a standard issue with these types of displays? Sorry, I am not a techie.
Sounds like a defect. The screen should be flat within the margin of error of human vision. Place a straight edge such as a ruler across it be sure it is not an optical illusion. Be careful not to scratch the glass.
Sounds like a defect. The screen should be flat within the margin of error of human vision. Place a straight edge such as a ruler across it be sure it is not an optical illusion. Be careful not to scratch the glass.
Apparently I was hallucinating. I held up a line sheet of paper on the edge and lined it up with the bottom of the Safari tabs, and the lines appear to be straight on both ends. It still looks like the edges of the screen curl in words as of a scroll.
Which Mahjong app it it exactly? I have four. I'll buy this to check it out myself. I've got over 350 apps, and I've never seen that happen.
In app purchasing has proven to be VERY popular. VERY! So people like that. It's certainly not a negative.
You can also switch between apps by swiping with four or five fingers sideways, and then you go to the next app directly. Forgot that one before.
It's called Mahjong!! (the exclamation marks are part of the name, I'm not just being dramatic with them) Made by byterun. It was one of the first apps that I downloaded which made it a bit more amusing.
I'm not saying in app purchases are bad. I'm just saying I'd like there to be trial versions on paid apps, rather than clutter up the free versions listings eith lite versions that are essentially trials. I think in app purchases could be made better by clearly displaying all of them before you download the app. I know you can view the top ones but it would be nice if it was easier to get a complete idea of how much an app costs.
Also does anyone else find in the app store search results if you apply some filters, select an app, download it and then go back into the app store to download the next one it forgets all the filters?
You would compare the images by making them the same dimension on each display. You can measure them with a ruler if necessary.
Images have built in antialiasing and unsharp masking which is always the same number of pixels so if you zoom you see the exaggeration of the pixillation. If you zoom a 72 dpi image 200%, on a traditional monitor, four screen pixels will represent one image pixel but since that original image pixel was only a single color all four device pixels will be that same color with interpolation and resampling having almost no effect.
Text on the other hand is rendered as curves prior to the antialiasing being applied. In this case, you can zoom on text infinitely and it will always be sharp, never showing pixillation except for the very slight antialiasing on the edges. The advantage that the new iPad has is that much less antialiasing is required due to higher resolution, resulting in sharper smoother curves.
Text is not really vectors in the sense that SVG is. Text has metrics which predefine the shape for many point sizes, where as true vectors are interpreting actual mathematical geometry on the fly which tends to be much more hardware demanding compared to rendering text. It might be likened to the difference between searching a database and searching an index. The speed is night and day difference.
Yeah, I agree with that, except that text is vectorized. You're right that there are metrics that determine kerning, and possibly, though I don't know if type on the iPad is that sophisticated, and I know that web type isn't, weight and shape at differing point sizes.
Antialiasing is being applied outside of the type frameworks themselves, so it isn't always ideal.
But even printed type is pixelated, because metal type isn't perfect at the edges, and the paper absorbs ink unevenly. There's always some amount of bleed.
And you're also right that the only way to properly compare this is with two pics the same original dimensions. It's annoying when some show one pic twice the size of the other. That doesn't help at all.
It's called Mahjong!! (the exclamation marks are part of the name, I'm not just being dramatic with them) Made by byterun. It was one of the first apps that I downloaded which made it a bit more amusing.
I'm not saying in app purchases are bad. I'm just saying I'd like there to be trial versions on paid apps, rather than clutter up the free versions listings eith lite versions that are essentially trials. I think in app purchases could be made better by clearly displaying all of them before you download the app. I know you can view the top ones but it would be nice if it was easier to get a complete idea of how much an app costs.
Also does anyone else find in the app store search results if you apply some filters, select an app, download it and then go back into the app store to download the next one it forgets all the filters?
I looked to the App Store, and there are 22 Mahjong games for the iPad, and 30 for the iPhone. None have the name: Mahjong!!
Fonts do not display as images so this comparison image is misleading.
I hear what you're saying but you are missing the point of my test.
It was not to show the exact quality of text renders, but the difference extra pixels make for small or non-western text.
I did this test for me to see how a US Letter-sized PDF of mine looks on the old/new iPad when displaying a whole page on-screen at once.
The point of my test was to see if I can get rid of the annoying zoom-in / zoom-out I currently have to do, switching between an overview of the whole page and actually read the text on it.
With the new iPad I can read everything perfectly fine when the whole page is displayed on the iPad.
On the old iPad I cannot at all. There is just not enough pixels.
Well, that game is definitely buggy! Obviously they didn't follow some rules that Apple set down, and it slipped by. I'll write a review later, and you should too.
Since the game is free, it would be good if some other guys here did so as well.
That's very odd. It doesn't show in the store. But it's downloading now, so we'll see if there's a problem.
Thanks!
I also put it in to Apple's search and it came up right away. Perhaps it's because I had already found that one but it comes up first with the suggestion even after only putting in 'mah'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Well, that game is definitely buggy! Obviously they didn't follow some rules that Apple set down, and it slipped by. I'll write a review later, and you should too.
Since the game is free, it would be good if some other guys here did so as well.
They really didn't follow Apple's guidelines. Interestingly you can still the play game by scaling in your head.
Yeah, I agree with that, except that text is vectorized. You're right that there are metrics that determine kerning, and possibly, though I don't know if type on the iPad is that sophisticated, and I know that web type isn't, weight and shape at differing point sizes.
There is a big difference between type that is composed of glyphs and text that is rendered as pure vector. To demonstrate that difference open a regular text only pdf file in Illustrator and then convert all the text to outlines. There will be no difference in the quality however the outline version will be several times the bytes and take several times longer to load on the screen and several times longer to print. Night and day difference.
By the by guys. Apple is having a conference tomorrow morning 6:00 am pacific time about what they are planning to do with the $100 billion. It will be a conference call that we can listen to.
I was going to start a thread about this, but then thought, what the heck! I'll say it here. Hope some of you are reading this now.
There is a big difference between type that is composed of glyphs and text that is rendered as pure vector. To demonstrate that difference open a regular text only pdf file in Illustrator and then convert all the text to outlines. There will be no difference in the quality however the outline version will be several times the bytes and take several times longer to load on the screen and several times longer to print. Night and day difference.
Sure, I'm not arguing about that. But most text is vector.
By the by guys. Apple is having a conference tomorrow morning 6:00 am pacific time about what they are planning to do with the $100 billion. It will be a conference call that we can listen to.
I was going to start a thread about this, but then thought, what the heck! I'll say it here. Hope some of you are reading this now.
6:00am? Well those guys don't shave or tuck their shirts in anyway so getting up that early isn't as difficult as it is for some of the rest of us.
Sure, I'm not arguing about that. But most text is vector.
Fonts/typefaces are pretty complicated. I've been working with them in raw Postscript since back in the eighties and Fontogrpher in the early nineties. Fonts are generally loaded and handled in the OS. Regardless of whether we are talking about Opentype, Postscript, TrueType or bit mapped fonts for print or screen the whole management of rendering, scaling, antialiasing is completely separate from any discussion of resolution except that the smaller typeface are clearer and more legible especially at smaller sizes as the pixel density increases on the display.
By the by guys. Apple is having a conference tomorrow morning 6:00 am pacific time about what they are planning to do with the $100 billion. It will be a conference call that we can listen to.
I was going to start a thread about this, but then thought, what the heck! I'll say it here. Hope some of you are reading this now.
That's an odd time... 30 min before market open...
I am hoping for a 10-20:1 split...
But I could see anything from a dividend, charitable trust, repatriating of overseas $ (pay taxes), acquisition or investment in manufacturing (in US)
I'd rather see almost anything but a dividend, as it would need to be regular to satisfy the large funds -- and that would concentrate the holdings even more.
It would be interesting if they could negotiate lower repatriating taxes in exchange for US manufacturing jobs.
Comments
For a camera phone you don't need a moving mirror. It would need to be fixed. But the other optical elements would move. A bunch of years ago, Phillips demo'd a tiny lens that could have its shape, and therefor it's focus, varied by applying a small voltage. The element wouldn't have to move at all, which is even better. There are also plastics in use now that will compress or expand depending on voltage. They could be used for purposes of focus or zoom. None of this would need a very high precision moving part, as the parts would simply resize themselves with very high precision.
There are also lenses used for cataract operations that will focus using the same muscles in the eye that the natural lens uses. Unfortunately, my doctor thought I wouldn't be a good candidate for them. But they can be focussed by pressure around the edges.
There are a lot of technologies around. The question is whether they are too expensive for this use.
Thanks, Mel!
That is encouraging... especially your last sentence!
With, what, 150 million iPhones in use and the potential for billions within years...
And 45 million iPads in use and the potential for 60-80 million more this year...
It seems like there could be great incentive to reduce the costs through economies of scale -- where every iPhone and iPad has a camera of acceptable quality for most uses.
It wasn't too long ago that multitouch was an expensive technology looking for a broad application...
Honest questions:
1) How, exactly do you compare text (or images) on 2 different DPI displays -- Would you use an image taken on the lower DPI display? the higher DPI display?
2) Won't a rasterized image always show antialias pixillation at some magnification -- regardless of the screen resolution?
3) With today's technology, wouldn't it be possible to generate text characters as vector graphics -- where each character could scale infinitely with no apparent pixillation?
You would compare the images by making them the same dimension on each display. You can measure them with a ruler if necessary.
Images have built in antialiasing and unsharp masking which is always the same number of pixels so if you zoom you see the exaggeration of the pixillation. If you zoom a 72 dpi image 200%, on a traditional monitor, four screen pixels will represent one image pixel but since that original image pixel was only a single color all four device pixels will be that same color with interpolation and resampling having almost no effect.
Text on the other hand is rendered as curves prior to the antialiasing being applied. In this case, you can zoom on text infinitely and it will always be sharp, never showing pixillation except for the very slight antialiasing on the edges. The advantage that the new iPad has is that much less antialiasing is required due to higher resolution, resulting in sharper smoother curves.
Text is not really vectors in the sense that SVG is. Text has metrics which predefine the shape for many point sizes, where as true vectors are interpreting actual mathematical geometry on the fly which tends to be much more hardware demanding compared to rendering text. It might be likened to the difference between searching a database and searching an index. The speed is night and day difference.
Images have built in antialiasing and unsharp masking which is always the same number of pixels so if you zoom you see the exaggeration of the pixillation. If you zoom a 72 dpi image 200%, on a traditional monitor, four screen pixels will represent one image pixel but since that original image pixel was only a single color all four device pixels will be that same color with interpolation and resampling having almost no effect.
Text on the other hand is rendered as curves prior to the antialiasing being applied. In this case, you can zoom on text infinitely and it will always be sharp, never showing pixillation except for the very slight antialiasing on the edges. The advantage that the new iPad has is that much less antialiasing is required due to higher resolution, resulting in sharper smoother curves.
Text is not really vectors in the sense that SVG is. Text has metrics which predefine the shape for many point sizes, where as true vectors are interpreting actual mathematical geometry on the fly which tends to be much more hardware demanding compared to rendering text. It might be likened to the difference between searching a database and searching an index. The speed is night and day difference.
Ahh... Understand!
Thanks!
Edit: So, the text rendering is done on the target device by the OS or App?
There are some iPhone apps, Koi Pond for example, that render graphics perfectly on iPad 2 at 2x, and new iPad at 2x -- but the text in the menus is blocky -- I suppose that they used rasterized images of text, as opposed to text.
Is anybody else noticing that the last inch of the right side of the display kind of tilts upward a little bit? is it just me? Am I noticing things that aren't there? Is this a standard issue with these types of displays? Sorry, I am not a techie.
Sounds like a defect. The screen should be flat within the margin of error of human vision. Place a straight edge such as a ruler across it be sure it is not an optical illusion. Be careful not to scratch the glass.
Sounds like a defect. The screen should be flat within the margin of error of human vision. Place a straight edge such as a ruler across it be sure it is not an optical illusion. Be careful not to scratch the glass.
Apparently I was hallucinating. I held up a line sheet of paper on the edge and lined it up with the bottom of the Safari tabs, and the lines appear to be straight on both ends. It still looks like the edges of the screen curl in words as of a scroll.
Which Mahjong app it it exactly? I have four. I'll buy this to check it out myself. I've got over 350 apps, and I've never seen that happen.
In app purchasing has proven to be VERY popular. VERY! So people like that. It's certainly not a negative.
You can also switch between apps by swiping with four or five fingers sideways, and then you go to the next app directly. Forgot that one before.
It's called Mahjong!! (the exclamation marks are part of the name, I'm not just being dramatic with them) Made by byterun. It was one of the first apps that I downloaded which made it a bit more amusing.
I'm not saying in app purchases are bad. I'm just saying I'd like there to be trial versions on paid apps, rather than clutter up the free versions listings eith lite versions that are essentially trials. I think in app purchases could be made better by clearly displaying all of them before you download the app. I know you can view the top ones but it would be nice if it was easier to get a complete idea of how much an app costs.
Also does anyone else find in the app store search results if you apply some filters, select an app, download it and then go back into the app store to download the next one it forgets all the filters?
You would compare the images by making them the same dimension on each display. You can measure them with a ruler if necessary.
Images have built in antialiasing and unsharp masking which is always the same number of pixels so if you zoom you see the exaggeration of the pixillation. If you zoom a 72 dpi image 200%, on a traditional monitor, four screen pixels will represent one image pixel but since that original image pixel was only a single color all four device pixels will be that same color with interpolation and resampling having almost no effect.
Text on the other hand is rendered as curves prior to the antialiasing being applied. In this case, you can zoom on text infinitely and it will always be sharp, never showing pixillation except for the very slight antialiasing on the edges. The advantage that the new iPad has is that much less antialiasing is required due to higher resolution, resulting in sharper smoother curves.
Text is not really vectors in the sense that SVG is. Text has metrics which predefine the shape for many point sizes, where as true vectors are interpreting actual mathematical geometry on the fly which tends to be much more hardware demanding compared to rendering text. It might be likened to the difference between searching a database and searching an index. The speed is night and day difference.
Yeah, I agree with that, except that text is vectorized. You're right that there are metrics that determine kerning, and possibly, though I don't know if type on the iPad is that sophisticated, and I know that web type isn't, weight and shape at differing point sizes.
Antialiasing is being applied outside of the type frameworks themselves, so it isn't always ideal.
But even printed type is pixelated, because metal type isn't perfect at the edges, and the paper absorbs ink unevenly. There's always some amount of bleed.
And you're also right that the only way to properly compare this is with two pics the same original dimensions. It's annoying when some show one pic twice the size of the other. That doesn't help at all.
It's called Mahjong!! (the exclamation marks are part of the name, I'm not just being dramatic with them) Made by byterun. It was one of the first apps that I downloaded which made it a bit more amusing.
I'm not saying in app purchases are bad. I'm just saying I'd like there to be trial versions on paid apps, rather than clutter up the free versions listings eith lite versions that are essentially trials. I think in app purchases could be made better by clearly displaying all of them before you download the app. I know you can view the top ones but it would be nice if it was easier to get a complete idea of how much an app costs.
Also does anyone else find in the app store search results if you apply some filters, select an app, download it and then go back into the app store to download the next one it forgets all the filters?
I looked to the App Store, and there are 22 Mahjong games for the iPad, and 30 for the iPhone. None have the name: Mahjong!!
Are you sure that's the exact name?
I looked to the App Store, and there are 22 Mahjong games for the iPad, and 30 for the iPhone. None have the name: Mahjong!!
Are you sure that's the exact name?
? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mahjong+ipad&l=1
Fonts do not display as images so this comparison image is misleading.
I hear what you're saying but you are missing the point of my test.
It was not to show the exact quality of text renders, but the difference extra pixels make for small or non-western text.
I did this test for me to see how a US Letter-sized PDF of mine looks on the old/new iPad when displaying a whole page on-screen at once.
The point of my test was to see if I can get rid of the annoying zoom-in / zoom-out I currently have to do, switching between an overview of the whole page and actually read the text on it.
With the new iPad I can read everything perfectly fine when the whole page is displayed on the iPad.
On the old iPad I cannot at all. There is just not enough pixels.
p.s.
But feel free to test for yourself.
I put the page of that PDF here:
KanjiPage3.pdf
Display it full-page view on an old and new iPad, the difference is like day and night.
This alone, for me, made it worth buying the new iPad.
? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mahjong+ipad&l=1
That's very odd. It doesn't show in the store. But it's downloading now, so we'll see if there's a problem.
Thanks!
Since the game is free, it would be good if some other guys here did so as well.
That's very odd. It doesn't show in the store. But it's downloading now, so we'll see if there's a problem.
Thanks!
I also put it in to Apple's search and it came up right away. Perhaps it's because I had already found that one but it comes up first with the suggestion even after only putting in 'mah'.
Well, that game is definitely buggy! Obviously they didn't follow some rules that Apple set down, and it slipped by. I'll write a review later, and you should too.
Since the game is free, it would be good if some other guys here did so as well.
They really didn't follow Apple's guidelines. Interestingly you can still the play game by scaling in your head.
Yeah, I agree with that, except that text is vectorized. You're right that there are metrics that determine kerning, and possibly, though I don't know if type on the iPad is that sophisticated, and I know that web type isn't, weight and shape at differing point sizes.
There is a big difference between type that is composed of glyphs and text that is rendered as pure vector. To demonstrate that difference open a regular text only pdf file in Illustrator and then convert all the text to outlines. There will be no difference in the quality however the outline version will be several times the bytes and take several times longer to load on the screen and several times longer to print. Night and day difference.
I was going to start a thread about this, but then thought, what the heck! I'll say it here. Hope some of you are reading this now.
There is a big difference between type that is composed of glyphs and text that is rendered as pure vector. To demonstrate that difference open a regular text only pdf file in Illustrator and then convert all the text to outlines. There will be no difference in the quality however the outline version will be several times the bytes and take several times longer to load on the screen and several times longer to print. Night and day difference.
Sure, I'm not arguing about that. But most text is vector.
By the by guys. Apple is having a conference tomorrow morning 6:00 am pacific time about what they are planning to do with the $100 billion. It will be a conference call that we can listen to.
I was going to start a thread about this, but then thought, what the heck! I'll say it here. Hope some of you are reading this now.
6:00am? Well those guys don't shave or tuck their shirts in anyway so getting up that early isn't as difficult as it is for some of the rest of us.
I still be snoozing.
Sure, I'm not arguing about that. But most text is vector.
Fonts/typefaces are pretty complicated. I've been working with them in raw Postscript since back in the eighties and Fontogrpher in the early nineties. Fonts are generally loaded and handled in the OS. Regardless of whether we are talking about Opentype, Postscript, TrueType or bit mapped fonts for print or screen the whole management of rendering, scaling, antialiasing is completely separate from any discussion of resolution except that the smaller typeface are clearer and more legible especially at smaller sizes as the pixel density increases on the display.
By the by guys. Apple is having a conference tomorrow morning 6:00 am pacific time about what they are planning to do with the $100 billion. It will be a conference call that we can listen to.
I was going to start a thread about this, but then thought, what the heck! I'll say it here. Hope some of you are reading this now.
That's an odd time... 30 min before market open...
I am hoping for a 10-20:1 split...
But I could see anything from a dividend, charitable trust, repatriating of overseas $ (pay taxes), acquisition or investment in manufacturing (in US)
I'd rather see almost anything but a dividend, as it would need to be regular to satisfy the large funds -- and that would concentrate the holdings even more.
It would be interesting if they could negotiate lower repatriating taxes in exchange for US manufacturing jobs.