Australian government accuses Apple of 'misleading' 4G claims with new iPad

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  • Reply 61 of 197
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,469member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    If you buy it somewhere else and travel to the US, it suddenly becomes 4G compatible and you CAN use it on 4G i.e. it is 4G.



    btw, what about parts of the world with only 2G available, would they need another disclaimer?



    Personally I think simply telling a buyer on their country-specific Apple site what the iPad features are for their own country should be sufficient. Other than in a small-type footnote, Apple avoided doing that in Australia. I've no doubt that the failure to tell consumers is at least a partial reason for the ACCC's action.
  • Reply 62 of 197




    The ad looks misleading as hell. 4G around the world? Since when is North America "Around the world"?
  • Reply 63 of 197
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Personally I think simply telling a buyer on their country-specific Apple site what the iPad features are for their own country should be sufficient. Other than in a small-type footnote, Apple avoided doing that in Australia. I've no doubt that the failure to tell consumers is at least a partial reason for the ACCC's action.



    I find it offensive that my tax dollars are being wasted by a nanny state Government department who seem to think that people here are illiterate retards.



    C'mon, ACCC, this isn't the USA.
  • Reply 64 of 197
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toruk View Post


    I agree. The iPad supports the 700 MHz and 2,100 MHz frequencies which is used in the United States and Canada for 4G LTE networking. The present and future 4G networks in Europe will use the 800 MHz, 1,800 MHz and 2,600 MHz cellular bands.



    The cellular-enable iPad should be labeled accordingly, i.e. '3G' worldwide and '4G' in the United States and Canada.



    How many labels do you want?



    Quote:

    Orange promises full European 4G LTE rollout by 2015

    Orange has unveiled its plans to launch 4G LTE service throughout the UK and Europe. The carrier says that it will have the next-generation high-speed wireless service fully deployed by 2015.



    The carriers says that it will have 4G LTE service in nine countries in Europe, plus the UK. "[Orange will] roll out 4G/LTE networks in all Orange European Union markets by 2015," said the carrier in a meeting with the European Commission this week.



    Orange wasn't afraid to ask for the government's help with its rollout either. "We welcome the EU decision to make more spectrum available, in a timely and harmonised manner, to wireless services in the EU, and look forward to further, similar initiatives to help us cope with the massive growth in public data use," added Orange. "Europe could do a great deal to promote a more favourable environment for the rollout of radio access networks."



    North America is far ahead of Europe with its 4G LTE deployments, as both AT&T and Verizon Wireless in the U.S. have active networks already. In Canada, multiple carriers have begun deployment of 4G LTE networks as well. European carriers have had to wait for more spectrum to be made available to them before they could start building their own 4G LTE networks. Everything Everywhere in the UK has attempted to work around this limitation by re-purposing spectrum it already has for use with 4G LTE services.



    Talk about 'misleading', are the Aussie's suing their own?

    Quote:

    Telstra recently made its highly anticipated 4G LTE network widely available in capital cities and various regional centres across Australia.



  • Reply 65 of 197
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Yes it can do 4G in Australia, because Telstra has HSPA+.

    4G != LTE.

    4G is really just a very poorly defined marketing term.



    The pictured ad says LTE. Next?
  • Reply 66 of 197
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post






    The ad looks misleading as hell. 4G around the world? Since when is North America "Around the world"?



    You do know what, "…up to" means?



    My bad. I thought you would.
  • Reply 67 of 197
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,469member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    I find it offensive that my tax dollars are being wasted by a nanny state Government department who seem to think that people here are illiterate retards.



    C'mon, ACCC, this isn't the USA.



    So then you're saying that a small footnote at the bottom of a page is more than sufficient notice to a buyer that the 4G referenced by Apple isn't 4G for them. Do I have that correct?
  • Reply 68 of 197
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post




    The ad looks misleading as hell. 4G around the world? Since when is North America "Around the world"?



    Perhaps you should look into doing an English comprehension course so that you can understand what the wording in that advertisement is actually saying.
  • Reply 69 of 197
    kent909kent909 Posts: 731member
    I am sure that anyone who thinks they have been tricked into buying a new iPad in Australia, can take it back to an Apple store and get a full refund. It is what it is. My Internet service provider sells me a plan that gets up to 30Mbs down and 5Mbs up speeds. I have never seen anything above 23. If I bother to read the small print and understand the technology, I will become aware that 30Mbs is not guaranteed. Maybe Apple should stop selling products in Australia and then no one would be fooled into buying something they really are not getting. Looks like some of the stupidity of the U.S. government is leaking over to Australia.
  • Reply 70 of 197
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


    The pictured ad says LTE. Next?



    That ad is not from Australia, it is from the US site:

    http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/



    Here is the equivalent Australia page, it just mentions wireless:

    http://www.apple.com/au/ipad/features/



    And here is an earlier version of the Aus page, which only said 4G, never LTE:

    http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/articl...ry_australia_/



    And the official ACCC complaint (linked in the article) has no mention of LTE, the complaint is about the marketing term "WiFi + 4G."
  • Reply 71 of 197
    toruktoruk Posts: 38member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    How many labels do you want?



    The appropriate amount used as necessary.



    Furthermore, Orange's 4G LTE network will use the 800 MHz, 1,800 MHz and 2,600 MHz cellular bands whereas the iPad supports the 700 MHz and 2,100 MHz bands. Therefore, the iPad is incompatible with present and future 4G LTE networks in Europe.
  • Reply 72 of 197
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    That ad is not from Australia, it is from the US site:

    http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/



    Here is the equivalent Australia page, it just mentions wireless:

    http://www.apple.com/au/ipad/features/



    And here is an earlier version of the Aus page, which only said 4G, never LTE:

    http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/articl...ry_australia_/



    And the official ACCC complaint (linked in the article) has no mention of LTE, the complaint is about the marketing term "WiFi + 4G."



    Apple has since updated the ad to satisfy those that don't fully understand the idiosyncacies of the English language. Which is in most cases, Americans.
  • Reply 73 of 197
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,740member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Hill60, why is it a footnote, intended as a technical clarification? Do you really honestly believe that a footnote is proper notice considering the site is only for Australian buyers of iPad's intended for use in Australia?



    A plain and simple "4G services are not available for Apple's iPad 4G in Australia" right above the selection box for iPad wi-fi with 4G would be more appropriate wouldn't it, assuming Apple didn't actually intend for there to be some confusion? I'm interested in your answer.



    Hatorguy, a footnote is fine because 4G services (HSPA+) are available (as per the ITU definition). As long as they aren't selling it as an LTE device in Australia, what's the problem?



    When I bought my new iPad, the AT&T version didn't come with disclaimers saying 4G wasn't supported in my area, even though their nearest LTE city is a few hundred miles away. (And, yes, I got the Verizon version instead. It's called doing your homework.)
  • Reply 74 of 197
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    Apple has since updated the ad to satisfy those that don't fully understand the idiosyncacies of the English language. Which is in most cases, Americans.



    Apple have obviously realised the way they were using the term "4G" in Australia was causing confusion and have started removing it from their site. That is very nice of them, but they shouldn't be sued.



    Apple were in fact using the term correctly all along, and it is Australians who use the term in contradiction of international standards. Apple should send the ACCC a link to the ITU website, and then sue them for costs and libel.
  • Reply 75 of 197
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    Apple has since updated the ad to satisfy those that don't fully understand the idiosyncacies of the English language. Which is in most cases, Americans.



    Then they are doing the right thing. Misleading advertising is not a sound business strategy in the long run.
  • Reply 76 of 197
    In Italy, in the first days after the new iPad launch, the ads of the mobile phone operators were misleading since they advertised 4G LTE capabilities of the new iPad, while the LTE frequencies used in the US are different and the new iPad cannot connect to LTE networks in Europe.



    After a few days, the ads were changed: all references to LTE have been removed, and now they only mention HSPA, HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA.
  • Reply 77 of 197
    macarenamacarena Posts: 365member
    This and several similar cases, are an example of Apple being held to a higher standard than other similar companies.



    But honestly, I genuinely think it is fair to hold Apple to a higher standard. This is one of those cases where Apple slipped up. Other companies can maybe rely on fine print and disclaimers, but Apple should not resort to such a defense. "Think Different" is applicable here too. This just is not Apple's way of doing things, and someone somewhere slipped up big time.



    I think one option for Apple is to offer an additional 14 day window, so that customers who have an issue with the connectivity will have the choice to return the device. And to make it even more clear, Apple can issue a recall for all the Wifi+4G iPads in Australia - stating clearly that the device is not capable of meeting Australian 4G standards. And when customers bring in the device, they can offer to either put a 3G sticker over the 4G label, or return the device for a full refund, or sign a disclaimer that they customers accepts that the device is not capable of 4G and still wants to keep it, and has rejected the recall offer.



    The fact is, while this is a major screw up by Apple, most Australians realize that there will not be an iPad anytime soon that will support Australian 4G networks. They would anyway buy the same device irrespective of what it is called. Any additional return window, or a recall, will not really cost Apple anything significant.



    But Apple should treat this as a valuable lesson - they have to be prepared to be held to a higher standard in terms of customer satisfaction, marketing, etc. Such a screw up could easily boomerang into a major issue for Apple considering how large its launches are.
  • Reply 78 of 197
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toruk View Post


    The appropriate amount used as necessary.



    Furthermore, Orange's 4G LTE network will use the 800 MHz, 1,800 MHz and 2,600 MHz cellular bands whereas the iPad supports the 700 MHz and 2,100 MHz bands. Therefore, the iPad is incompatible with present and future 4G LTE networks in Europe.



    So how many labels do you want?

    Quote:

    LTE: the future of mobile broadband



    Everything Everywhere and BT Wholesale started the first live trial of 4G LTE broadband in the UK last year, with Cornwall being used as the testbed for the next generation network. The trial used 10MHz of test 800MHz spectrum.



    Everything Everywhere plans to roll-out 4G mobile internet for Orange and T-Mobile customers by the end of the year, providing it gets the green light from Ofcom.



    The company has announced that a new 4G test on the 1800Mhz spectrum will commence in Bristol this April as part of its hopes to launch before the year is out.



    In order to create the 4G network, it would be necessary for Ofcom to allow EE to convert some of its existing 1800Mhz spectrum license from 3G to 4G use. The regulator says it is considering the offer.



    4G iPad band



    The new iPad is designed to work across the spectrum band of 700-2100Mhz. While some trials in the UK have been outside this, the Everything Everwhere Bristol test will be within this.



    And now:

    Quote:

    So I shouldn't be too bummed out that I can't get 4G?

    Nope. Apple has opted to use 4G terminology for the new iPad, and that's certainly fair. But for the UK, we're still getting real-world speeds on par with what is termed 4G elsewhere in the world. So don't worry, your new iPad will be fast in the UK, and the networks seem hell bent on making sure of that.



  • Reply 79 of 197
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,469member
    I'm still not seeing any change in wording on the Australian Apple store site

    http://store.apple.com/au/browse/hom...ad/select_ipad



    Not even a footnote that 4G isn't available to Australian's purchasing the iPad 4G.
  • Reply 80 of 197
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    Which is in most cases, Americans.



    Please don't insult all Americans by throwing them into the same bucket as I am a [whatever]....
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