ETSI postpones nano-SIM vote as battle rages on between Apple and Nokia

Posted:
in iPhone edited January 2014


The European Telecommunications Standards Institute will not hold a vote today on a new nano-SIM standard, as two competing camps led by Apple and Nokia have not been able to come to terms.



The ETSI meeting started Thursday, and a vote was scheduled to be held Friday. But the participating companies have been unable to reach an agreement, and decided not to hold the vote, according to FOSS Patents.



ETSI rules now dictate that the vote must be postponed by a minimum of 30 days. That will give both Apple and Nokia at least another month to convince the other side to adopt their proposed nano-SIM standard.



The nano-SIM battle ratcheted up this week after Nokia said it would refuse to license its SIM patents if the ETSI chooses Apple's design. As many as 50 patent families owned by Nokia could be relevant to Apple's proposed nano-SIM design.



In an attempt to drum up support for its nano-SIM design, Apple earlier this week pledged royalty-free licensing of its nano-SIM design. But Nokia publicly panned Apple's offer, dismissing it as "an attempt to devalue the intellectual property of others."



Aligned with Nokia are Motorola Mobility and Research in Motion, who are concerned that Apple could own the patents related to design of the nano-SIM. They also believe that use of Apple's smaller SIM card would require a special "drawer" to protect the card.





Oberthur Technologies' nano-SIM prototype. | Source: The Verge







The nano-SIM standard aims to replace the MicroSIM card, which was originally pushed by Apple in 2010 with the launch of the iPhone 4. Apple's new nano-SIM would be a bout a third smaller than MicroSIM, allowing smartphone makers to potentially build even smaller devices.



Prior to the nano-SIM dispute, Apple was said to have been working on an embedded SIM design that would have allowed users to select a carrier and service plan directly from their iPhone. But Apple's plans allegedly upset carriers who felt they would be marginalized by an embedded SIM.



And so Apple abandoned those plans, and instead began talking with carriers about designing a smaller SIM card. As a result, most European carriers are in Apple's corner in the ETSI vote over the new nano-SIM standard.



[ View article on AppleInsider ]

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 46
    drdoppiodrdoppio Posts: 1,132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    ...

    The nano-SIM standard aims to replace the MicroSIM card, which was originally pushed by Apple in 2010 with the launch of the iPhone 4. Apple's new nano-SIM would be a bout a third smaller than MicroSIM, allowing smartphone makers to potentially build even smaller devices...



    30 days! ! I can't wait to have a nano-SIM and stop lugging those extra 2 mg around... /s
  • Reply 2 of 46
    skaagskaag Posts: 9member
    Well it's only a question of time until Nokia goes RIM's way and Apple will no longer have anyone to argue / settle with, and their standard will be the only one submitted to the ETSI.
  • Reply 3 of 46
    30 days should give Apple plenty of time to put together more shill voters in order to get its way.



    Hey Nokia - all your 50 families of SIM patents are now are belong to us!
  • Reply 4 of 46
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,587member
    So what happens when you team up with MSFT? You do like Nokia, refuse to provide access to patents which in fact you are legally obligated to under FRAND agreements. Nice. Can you say "antitrust".
  • Reply 5 of 46
    Just get rid of SIM cards -- but only if ALL CARRIERS (including pay as you go!) who offer wireless that is compatible with a given phone can enable their service with each device, and the other functions like transferring contacts are easily exportable as they are via SIM card today.
  • Reply 6 of 46
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    So this in now SIMgate with the 30-day delay. ETSI has never seen such excitement.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


    So what happens when you team up with MSFT? You do like Nokia, refuse to provide access to patents which in fact you are legally obligated to under FRAND agreements. Nice. Can you say "antitrust".



    It sounds like Apple is saying that there design is free if all SIM patents are also free. That sounds like it's trying to get around paying FRAND fees. If so, then I don't think Nokia is in the wrong to protest... those the way they are doing sure does come across as petty.
  • Reply 7 of 46
    So who sets the FRAND "rules" anyhow? Private agreement or governments?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


    So what happens when you team up with MSFT? You do like Nokia, refuse to provide access to patents which in fact you are legally obligated to under FRAND agreements. Nice. Can you say "antitrust".



  • Reply 8 of 46
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Ah, frick. Hope that gets taken care of soon; I'd love to see this vote take place in time for a nano-SIM to be put into production in the 6th iPhone.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


    30 days should give Apple plenty of time to put together more shill voters in order to get its way.



    \
  • Reply 9 of 46
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Ah, frick. Hope that gets taken care of soon; I'd love to see this vote take place in time for a nano-SIM to be put into production in the 6th iPhone.



    I think the 6th gen iPhone has been finalized for awhile now. Even if they could change the size of the SIM used there would be point because the space saved would not allow a re-shifting of the other components. The 4th gen iPhone would be the earliest and only that because the SIM card location doesn't seem to affect other components around it.





    PS: Can't you ban that ZZZ guy? All he does it troll. He never adds to the conservation.
  • Reply 10 of 46
    mknoppmknopp Posts: 257member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    It sounds like Apple is saying that there design is free if all SIM patents are also free. That sounds like it's trying to get around paying FRAND fees. If so, then I don't think Nokia is in the wrong to protest... those the way they are doing sure does come across as petty.



    No, Apple offered to make their nano-SIM free because Nokia and its cronnies were spreading FUD that if anyone voted for Apple's version that Apple would then "own" the new SIM standard and would use it to exert control over all other carriers with their licensing fees. You know, they were spreading rumor that Apple would act like they are now.



    In response, Apple came out and stated that this was never their intent and to prove it they offered to basically give this for free to all parties interested as long as everyone else who owned patents on the SIM agreed to give theirs away for free as well.



    To which Nokia and its cronies replied by whining that Apple is acting to devalue their precious IP.



    What a bunch of hypocrites. They complain that Apple will exploit their patents for its personal gain and how unfair that is, then when Apple proves that isn't their intent they show their true colors and prove that all they wanted to do the whole time was exploit their patents for personal gain, you know the thing that they badmouthed Apple for wanting to do.



    Of course, when the patents from their former days of innovation is all that they have that they can make any money on I guess they have to leverage it as much as possible. But their actions in this whole case shows that they really should spend a little money on PR because they are coming out of this looking terrible.
  • Reply 11 of 46
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post


    So who sets the FRAND "rules" anyhow? Private agreement or governments?



    Essentially there's no such thing as "FRAND rules". Each standards body sets the ground rules as it applies to their specific set of standards. Some just give guidance and suggestions on how royalties and licensing should be handled while other are more specific.
  • Reply 12 of 46
    hellacoolhellacool Posts: 759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mknopp View Post


    No, Apple offered to make their nano-SIM free because Nokia and its cronnies were spreading FUD that if anyone voted for Apple's version that Apple would then "own" the new SIM standard and would use it to exert control over all other carriers with their licensing fees. You know, they were spreading rumor that Apple would act like they are now.



    In response, Apple came out and stated that this was never their intent and to prove it they offered to basically give this for free to all parties interested as long as everyone else who owned patents on the SIM agreed to give theirs away for free as well.



    To which Nokia and its cronies replied by whining that Apple is acting to devalue their precious IP.



    What a bunch of hypocrites. They complain that Apple will exploit their patents for its personal gain and how unfair that is, then when Apple proves that isn't their intent they show their true colors and prove that all they wanted to do the whole time was exploit their patents for personal gain, you know the thing that they badmouthed Apple for wanting to do.



    Of course, when the patents from their former days of innovation is all that they have that they can make any money on I guess they have to leverage it as much as possible. But their actions in this whole case shows that they really should spend a little money on PR because they are coming out of this looking terrible.



    With all the suing everyone is doing it is not surprising companies feel this way. Apple "says" they will give it away but have they done anything official? Signed papers, made it legal ect..... Or they just gave their "word". With all the lawsuits, Apple's "word" is not enough.
  • Reply 13 of 46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mknopp View Post


    No, Apple offered to make their nano-SIM free because Nokia and its cronnies were spreading FUD that if anyone voted for Apple's version that Apple would then "own" the new SIM standard and would use it to exert control over all other carriers with their licensing fees. You know, they were spreading rumor that Apple would act like they are now.



    In response, Apple came out and stated that this was never their intent and to prove it they offered to basically give this for free to all parties interested as long as everyone else who owned patents on the SIM agreed to give theirs away for free as well.



    To which Nokia and its cronies replied by whining that Apple is acting to devalue their precious IP.



    What a bunch of hypocrites. They complain that Apple will exploit their patents for its personal gain and how unfair that is, then when Apple proves that isn't their intent they show their true colors and prove that all they wanted to do the whole time was exploit their patents for personal gain, you know the thing that they badmouthed Apple for wanting to do.



    Of course, when the patents from their former days of innovation is all that they have that they can make any money on I guess they have to leverage it as much as possible. But their actions in this whole case shows that they really should spend a little money on PR because they are coming out of this looking terrible.



    Speaking of FUD, your whole comment is a good example...



    Nokia claims Apple currently has no patents relevant to SIM cards. Assuming this statement is true, what does Apple have to "give away" for free for a new SIM design? As someone else mentioned in a comment to a previous article, Apple has already notified ETSI that they've filed patents relevant to their SIM design. This is what Apple has to give away for free.



    So Apple currently has nothing relevant to SIM cards. It's trying to write itself as being necessary for the next gen SIM card. By doing so it can avoid licensing IP by either (a) making the other companies contribute their IP for free or (b) make them license Apple's IP thereby effectively giving their IP rights to Apple for free. Yes, Apple's true colors are to avoid licensing fees and thus increase their own profits. How massively altruistic of them. By your logic I guess Apple gives away a free iPad with at least a minimum $399 donation...



    But you are right about one thing. Apple is better about playing the PR game. Apple's offer to allow use of their IP makes them look good. At least until realize all they're really doing is trying to increase their profit margin.
  • Reply 14 of 46
    bullheadbullhead Posts: 493member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mknopp View Post


    No, Apple offered to make their nano-SIM free because Nokia and its cronnies were spreading FUD that if anyone voted for Apple's version that Apple would then "own" the new SIM standard and would use it to exert control over all other carriers with their licensing fees. You know, they were spreading rumor that Apple would act like they are now.



    In response, Apple came out and stated that this was never their intent and to prove it they offered to basically give this for free to all parties interested as long as everyone else who owned patents on the SIM agreed to give theirs away for free as well.



    To which Nokia and its cronies replied by whining that Apple is acting to devalue their precious IP.



    What a bunch of hypocrites. They complain that Apple will exploit their patents for its personal gain and how unfair that is, then when Apple proves that isn't their intent they show their true colors and prove that all they wanted to do the whole time was exploit their patents for personal gain, you know the thing that they badmouthed Apple for wanting to do.



    Of course, when the patents from their former days of innovation is all that they have that they can make any money on I guess they have to leverage it as much as possible. But their actions in this whole case shows that they really should spend a little money on PR because they are coming out of this looking terrible.



    Nokia is a dying company. They sold their soul to the devil (Microsoft) and are now paying the price. This whole SIMgate shows how they want to cripple innovation by using their patents to stifle innovation.
  • Reply 15 of 46
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Guess we'll just have to wait for the toilet to finish flushing on Nokia until we can get some progress.
  • Reply 16 of 46
    shaun, ukshaun, uk Posts: 1,050member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    Nokia is a dying company. They sold their soul to the devil (Microsoft) and are now paying the price. This whole SIMgate shows how they want to cripple innovation by using their patents to stifle innovation.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Guess we'll just have to wait for the toilet to finish flushing on Nokia until we can get some progress.



    Evidence? No forget it coz there isn't any.



    Just because we're Apple fans there is no need to constantly bad mouth other companies.



    I've used Nokia phones for years. They've always been reliable and good quality. They're still the largest mobile phone company in the world so they're not going anywhere.
  • Reply 17 of 46
    gprovidagprovida Posts: 247member
    The EU will probably need to weigh in. FRAND and standard essential patents is about to hit the wall with business priorities driving behavior.
  • Reply 18 of 46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mknopp View Post


    No, Apple offered to make their nano-SIM free because Nokia and its cronnies were spreading FUD that if anyone voted for Apple's version that Apple would then "own" the new SIM standard and would use it to exert control over all other carriers with their licensing fees. You know, they were spreading rumor that Apple would act like they are now.



    In response, Apple came out and stated that this was never their intent and to prove it they offered to basically give this for free to all parties interested as long as everyone else who owned patents on the SIM agreed to give theirs away for free as well.



    To which Nokia and its cronies replied by whining that Apple is acting to devalue their precious IP.



    What a bunch of hypocrites. They complain that Apple will exploit their patents for its personal gain and how unfair that is, then when Apple proves that isn't their intent they show their true colors and prove that all they wanted to do the whole time was exploit their patents for personal gain, you know the thing that they badmouthed Apple for wanting to do.



    Of course, when the patents from their former days of innovation is all that they have that they can make any money on I guess they have to leverage it as much as possible. But their actions in this whole case shows that they really should spend a little money on PR because they are coming out of this looking terrible.



    I think this is an excellent summation of the situation.



    I'm more than a little shocked at the two conspiracy-theory-aficionado-like responses it's received so far.



    My take on this is just that Apple has responded to the contest for the new SIM design with an obviously superior design that (technically) bends some of the rules of the contest in a typically Apple-like way. Ergo, Apple will probably lose simply because Nokia and RIM don't want to be humiliated.



    It's about ego and political pull.

    Nokia and RIM both have huge helpings of both. Whereas Apple just has a better design.
  • Reply 19 of 46
    bullheadbullhead Posts: 493member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post


    Evidence? No forget it coz there isn't any.



    Just because we're Apple fans there is no need to constantly bad mouth other companies.



    I've used Nokia phones for years. They've always been reliable and good quality. They're still the largest mobile phone company in the world so they're not going anywhere.



    How many Microsoft phones has Nokia sold? What does their market share look like? Yeah, I would say there is plenty of evidence showing the death spiral Nokia is in. Not to mention they have nothing to distinguish themselves from other Microsoft clone phone makers. Just like the android cloners, race to the bottom. Although, at least people are buying the Android cloner phones.
  • Reply 20 of 46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post


    Evidence? No forget it coz there isn't any.



    Just because we're Apple fans there is no need to constantly bad mouth other companies.



    I've used Nokia phones for years. They've always been reliable and good quality. They're still the largest mobile phone company in the world so they're not going anywhere.



    I think that the main problem with the Apple proposal for the point of view of Nokia y RIM is that is basically the same sim design a design with more than 20 years and due that 20 year is the length of a patent that means most of the essential patent have expired or would expire shortly.
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