Classy like like drawing other mobile vendors into the iPhone 4's antenna issues...yeah, real classy.
They brought up a point of fact that was proven to be so several times. Even the whole I'm a PC was drawn off actual PC user complaints and never actually mentioned any particular hardware vendor.
Unlike Samsung who calls the Apple users they are trying to win over stupid, lame, sheep etc.
The basis of your point, is that other phones weren't affected, in your post you clearly cite an example of an affected phone, I believe the saying "hoisted by one's own petard" seems particularly apt in this instance.
And he ignores all the facts about this fatally flawed design being the flagship phone longer than any other, outselling every other iPhone to this day, still using that fatally flawed external antenna in the 4S that some people were sure was going to result in a recall that will topple Apple, and that Anand clearly states the iPhone 4 antenna is much improved and surpasses the iPhone 3GS. But if he wants to pretend that megahertz is the sole metric for determining a CPU performance or that megapixels are the sole determiner in picture quality or that a lower decibel means that a phone is worse then let him wallow in the clichéd and outmoded talking points.
You need to read my post again. You are reading into it something which isn't there. Nowhere in my post did I claim that other phones don't suffer signal loss when held in the hand. It would be foolish to claim that, because it's basic physics that an antenna receives a weaker signal when you surround it with something that's mostly made of water.
The 'point' of my post was that:
The signal degradation when held exists on all phones, but the iPhone 4's antenna design significantly exacerbates it. Hence the figures I posted. The figure for the 3GS demonstrates that it's possible to reduce the degradation to an insignificant level with good design.
Perhaps you should follow your own advice, for in spite of your claims that people here said it doesn't happen at all, there is not one post that says that.
Having shifted the goalposts, you then proceed to create a specious argument, bringing in that the issue is based on a matter of degree, not the absolute that you started with.
Therefore you have hoisted yourself by your own petard, again!
And he ignores all the facts about this fatally flawed design being the flagship phone longer than any other, outselling every other iPhone to this day
Another one who isn't reading my posts and isn't making logical arguments. In post #87 I expressly said that the iPhone 4 was a landmark phone and that it's unsurprising that it's hugely commercially successful.
Can't you see that it's illogical to claim that the antenna flaw doesn't exist because the phone is otherwise excellent and has been very successful? I've said more than once that the phone has plenty of advantages that outweigh the antenna issue. It makes no sense to claim that because the phone has lots of good points, its bad point doesn't exist.
The antenna issue would have been no more or no less real whether Apple had sold 5 iPhone 4s or 5 billion. Commercial success doesn't suddenly make it a different physical product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
still using that fatally flawed external antenna in the 4S
... apart from the 4S has a different antenna system to the GSM 4. The 4S has one cellular antenna at the top and another at the bottom; it switches between them depending upon which is receiving the better signal. It solves the antenna issue because it's practically impossible to cover up both antennas at the same time.
Not to the folks with a 3gs. Apple doesn't design for those that will pay to upgrade every year. They design for those that upgrade every two.
If you buy a new phone based on solely on the external appearance and not it's usability or user experience then I can see how someone as myopic as Just Me would say that but the 4S completely revamped the internals in ways that trounce any previous YoY upgrade in most regards.
Perhaps you should follow your own advice, for in spite of your claims that people here said it doesn't happen at all, there is not one post that says that.
Having shifted the goalposts, you then proceed to create a specious argument, bringing in that the issue is based on a matter of degree, not the absolute that you started with.
You also haven't read my posts properly.
At no point did I describe this as a matter of absolutes. In my first post #66, I stated that the problem exists on other phones but is worse in degree on the iPhone. That was the entire point of the figures I posted comparing other phones to the iPhone.
At no point did I assert that other posters claimed there was no signal loss at all. My post #66 was in response to post #20 by Tallest Skil, where he said that the iPhone had no issue beyond that which all phones have. I responded to that by providing examples showing that the signal loss is more serious on the iPhone. I didn't present anybody as denying all signal loss.
... and what is 'specious' about the argument that the issue is a matter of degree? That is precisely what it is, as the decibel figures demonstrate.
That would be "the sheep" looking forward to "half an upgrade" because as was pointed out earlier, doubling the processor cores is only "half an upgrade".
Just like the upgrade from the iPhone 4 to the 4S then? Or are you talking about a phone that isn't even released yet?
Looks like apple is taking longer and longer to udpate the phone.
We may not see the next iphone until Feb 2013
Longer and longer? That implies a continuing trend. Instead, let's look at the time periods:
13 months
12 months
11 months
16 months
I'm not sure how you derive a 'longer and longer' trend from that. Looks like roughly a year with one exception. Since we don't know what the next time period will be, the only thing you can really say is that the average is about 13 months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
Haven't you heard? Samsung Electronic's profit is up 100%, while the entire organization's revenue is up 20% mostly due to its mobile division (hint: smartphone sales)..
Apple = next Nokia / RIM?? Remember it's Samsung who's taking over from behind.. Samsung mobile's last year sales was up 300%.
ROTFLMAO. Did you sleep through this week's earnings reports? Apple is the next Nokia or RIM? What are you drinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
neither did Apple's 1984 Superbowl ad. {describe the product}
Funny, it seems to me that "On January 24th, Apple Computer will introduce Macintosh" says something about what they're doing.
I try to wake up ever stinking day. Because of my Military PTSD I have night mares. I am highly medicated by the VA. MAYBE I DONT WANT TO FRIGGEN WAKE UP. MAYBE I LIKE MY IPHONE, IPAD, MB PRO, MACPRO AND IPOD!!!!!!! GET THE F#$@ AWAY FROM ME YOU BLACK BUSS PROTESTING MUTHER F#@$%^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to Apple, only 0.55% of all iPhone 4 users have complained to the company about the antenna issue. Apple also reported that the number of iPhone 4s returned was 1.7%, versus 6.0% for Apple iPhone 3GS model. Despite the negative media attention regarding the antenna issues, 72% of iPhone 4 users say that they are "very satisfied" with their iPhone 4 according to an August 2010 survey by ChangeWave Research.
Meanwhile, a WDS study finds that Android-based devices have a higher than average propensity for hardware failure; 14% of technical support calls on Android relate to hardware, versus 11% for Windows Phone, 7% for iOS and 6% for BlackBerry OS. In fact, there are anecdotal reports of a return rate as high as 40% for some Android-based smartphones; in contrast to the 2% return rate of Apple iPhone 4. Of particular interest, ITG Investment Research reports a 16% return rate for Samsung Tab.
Notably, despite the many competitor contrived scandals; Antennagate, Batterygate, et al. According to global marketing information services firm J.D Power and Associates smartphones from Apple Inc. have been consistently ranking highest in customer satisfaction. Additionally, a UBS Investment Research survey found the Apple iPhone customer retention rates at 89% versus competing smartphone manufacturers of whom the highest rank, HTC, had a mere 39% retention rate.
I hope those complaining about Apple iPhone issues are complaining at least as fervently about issues with Android-based smartphones; battery life, GPS, heating and Wi-Fi signal which are issues for one model of Android-based smartphone, Samsung Galaxy S2.
The most remarkable lesson learned should be that Apple exceeds every standard to such an incredible level that a 0.55% customer reported issue rate and 2% return rate causes a worldwide scandal while the expectations of competitors' customers is so low that 16% return rate barely causes a stir.
Haven't you heard? Samsung Electronic's profit is up 100%, while the entire organization's revenue is up 20% mostly due to its mobile division (hint: smartphone sales)..
Apple = next Nokia / RIM?? Remember it's Samsung who's taking over from behind.. Samsung mobile's last year sales was up 300%.
Nokia kept growing for several years after the iPhone was released as well. Didn't last. They're in a race to the bottom with the prime mover in this marketplace. Samsung also depends upon Google, which so far hasn't done anywhere near as good a job updating Android as Apple has done with iOS. Cust sat figures don't lie.
Samsung will find it increasingly difficult to compete with Apple on price and on features over the next 2-3 years. That'll force them to compete by reducing their margins. Look to RIMM and Nokia to see how that story ends.
And of course, Googlerola is now a direct competitor. What if Google decides to keep new versions of Android for itself, or if they switch their attentions to a Chrome-based Motorola smartphone that can run Android apps? Either would be a disaster for Samsung (although it could finally give Apple a run for its money).
Nokia kept growing for several years after the iPhone was released as well. Didn't last. They're in a race to the bottom with the prime mover in this marketplace. Samsung also depends upon Google, which so far hasn't done anywhere near as good a job updating Android as Apple has done with iOS. Cust sat figures don't lie.
Samsung will find it increasingly difficult to compete with Apple on price and on features over the next 2-3 years. That'll force them to compete by reducing their margins. Look to RIMM and Nokia to see how that story ends.
And of course, Googlerola is now a direct competitor. What if Google decides to keep new versions of Android for itself, or if they switch their attentions to a Chrome-based Motorola smartphone that can run Android apps? Either would be a disaster for Samsung (although it could finally give Apple a run for its money).
Samsung is doing great as their quarterly results indicate but there is some illogical thought process (perhaps from being ignorant or perhaps done purposely) that makes those anti-Apple/ pro-Samsung posters think of only the flagship device out of dozens of models on the market and assume that the flagship device is the device that is selling so well.
Perhaps Samsung's flagship devices are outselling every other handset they make much like with the flagship iPhone but I've seen nary a person comment on Samsung's ARP per handset. Without knowing that these anti-Apple posters have absolutely no credibility in predicting the iPhone's demise.
So far we have exactly one other handset vendor that is doing well — which is great, I'd like to see more get a decent foothold — but Samsung doing well on stolen IP is no indication that Apple is faltering.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony
Classy like like drawing other mobile vendors into the iPhone 4's antenna issues...yeah, real classy.
They brought up a point of fact that was proven to be so several times. Even the whole I'm a PC was drawn off actual PC user complaints and never actually mentioned any particular hardware vendor.
Unlike Samsung who calls the Apple users they are trying to win over stupid, lame, sheep etc.
And he ignores all the facts about this fatally flawed design being the flagship phone longer than any other, outselling every other iPhone to this day, still using that fatally flawed external antenna in the 4S that some people were sure was going to result in a recall that will topple Apple, and that Anand clearly states the iPhone 4 antenna is much improved and surpasses the iPhone 3GS. But if he wants to pretend that megahertz is the sole metric for determining a CPU performance or that megapixels are the sole determiner in picture quality or that a lower decibel means that a phone is worse then let him wallow in the clichéd and outmoded talking points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me
but the 4s was a half upgrade
Not to the folks with a 3gs. Apple doesn't design for those that will pay to upgrade every year. They design for those that upgrade every two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious
You need to read my post again. You are reading into it something which isn't there. Nowhere in my post did I claim that other phones don't suffer signal loss when held in the hand. It would be foolish to claim that, because it's basic physics that an antenna receives a weaker signal when you surround it with something that's mostly made of water.
The 'point' of my post was that:
The signal degradation when held exists on all phones, but the iPhone 4's antenna design significantly exacerbates it. Hence the figures I posted. The figure for the 3GS demonstrates that it's possible to reduce the degradation to an insignificant level with good design.
Perhaps you should follow your own advice, for in spite of your claims that people here said it doesn't happen at all, there is not one post that says that.
Having shifted the goalposts, you then proceed to create a specious argument, bringing in that the issue is based on a matter of degree, not the absolute that you started with.
Therefore you have hoisted yourself by your own petard, again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
And he ignores all the facts about this fatally flawed design being the flagship phone longer than any other, outselling every other iPhone to this day
Another one who isn't reading my posts and isn't making logical arguments. In post #87 I expressly said that the iPhone 4 was a landmark phone and that it's unsurprising that it's hugely commercially successful.
Can't you see that it's illogical to claim that the antenna flaw doesn't exist because the phone is otherwise excellent and has been very successful? I've said more than once that the phone has plenty of advantages that outweigh the antenna issue. It makes no sense to claim that because the phone has lots of good points, its bad point doesn't exist.
The antenna issue would have been no more or no less real whether Apple had sold 5 iPhone 4s or 5 billion. Commercial success doesn't suddenly make it a different physical product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
still using that fatally flawed external antenna in the 4S
... apart from the 4S has a different antenna system to the GSM 4. The 4S has one cellular antenna at the top and another at the bottom; it switches between them depending upon which is receiving the better signal. It solves the antenna issue because it's practically impossible to cover up both antennas at the same time.
If you buy a new phone based on solely on the external appearance and not it's usability or user experience then I can see how someone as myopic as Just Me would say that but the 4S completely revamped the internals in ways that trounce any previous YoY upgrade in most regards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious
Can't you see that it's illogical to claim that the antenna flaw doesn't exist
Precisely, which is why no one has made that claim.
[QUOTE] It solves the antenna issue because it's practically impossible to cover up both antennas at the same time.[/QUOTE]
Apart from holding the phone in landscape mode and typing with ones thumbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Perhaps you should follow your own advice, for in spite of your claims that people here said it doesn't happen at all, there is not one post that says that.
Having shifted the goalposts, you then proceed to create a specious argument, bringing in that the issue is based on a matter of degree, not the absolute that you started with.
You also haven't read my posts properly.
At no point did I describe this as a matter of absolutes. In my first post #66, I stated that the problem exists on other phones but is worse in degree on the iPhone. That was the entire point of the figures I posted comparing other phones to the iPhone.
At no point did I assert that other posters claimed there was no signal loss at all. My post #66 was in response to post #20 by Tallest Skil, where he said that the iPhone had no issue beyond that which all phones have. I responded to that by providing examples showing that the signal loss is more serious on the iPhone. I didn't present anybody as denying all signal loss.
... and what is 'specious' about the argument that the issue is a matter of degree? That is precisely what it is, as the decibel figures demonstrate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant
And you're saying he can't? That's ridiculous.
Yes I am and it's obvious he can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
That would be "the sheep" looking forward to "half an upgrade" because as was pointed out earlier, doubling the processor cores is only "half an upgrade".
Just like the upgrade from the iPhone 4 to the 4S then? Or are you talking about a phone that isn't even released yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me
iphone = june 2007
iphone 3g = july 2008
iphone 3gs = july 2009
Iphone 4 = june 2010
Iphone 4s = Oct 2011
Looks like apple is taking longer and longer to udpate the phone.
We may not see the next iphone until Feb 2013
Longer and longer? That implies a continuing trend. Instead, let's look at the time periods:
13 months
12 months
11 months
16 months
I'm not sure how you derive a 'longer and longer' trend from that. Looks like roughly a year with one exception. Since we don't know what the next time period will be, the only thing you can really say is that the average is about 13 months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
Haven't you heard? Samsung Electronic's profit is up 100%, while the entire organization's revenue is up 20% mostly due to its mobile division (hint: smartphone sales)..
Apple = next Nokia / RIM?? Remember it's Samsung who's taking over from behind.. Samsung mobile's last year sales was up 300%.
ROTFLMAO. Did you sleep through this week's earnings reports? Apple is the next Nokia or RIM? What are you drinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
neither did Apple's 1984 Superbowl ad. {describe the product}
Funny, it seems to me that "On January 24th, Apple Computer will introduce Macintosh" says something about what they're doing.
I try to wake up ever stinking day. Because of my Military PTSD I have night mares. I am highly medicated by the VA. MAYBE I DONT WANT TO FRIGGEN WAKE UP. MAYBE I LIKE MY IPHONE, IPAD, MB PRO, MACPRO AND IPOD!!!!!!! GET THE F#$@ AWAY FROM ME YOU BLACK BUSS PROTESTING MUTHER F#@$%^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to Apple, only 0.55% of all iPhone 4 users have complained to the company about the antenna issue. Apple also reported that the number of iPhone 4s returned was 1.7%, versus 6.0% for Apple iPhone 3GS model. Despite the negative media attention regarding the antenna issues, 72% of iPhone 4 users say that they are "very satisfied" with their iPhone 4 according to an August 2010 survey by ChangeWave Research.
Meanwhile, a WDS study finds that Android-based devices have a higher than average propensity for hardware failure; 14% of technical support calls on Android relate to hardware, versus 11% for Windows Phone, 7% for iOS and 6% for BlackBerry OS. In fact, there are anecdotal reports of a return rate as high as 40% for some Android-based smartphones; in contrast to the 2% return rate of Apple iPhone 4. Of particular interest, ITG Investment Research reports a 16% return rate for Samsung Tab.
Notably, despite the many competitor contrived scandals; Antennagate, Batterygate, et al. According to global marketing information services firm J.D Power and Associates smartphones from Apple Inc. have been consistently ranking highest in customer satisfaction. Additionally, a UBS Investment Research survey found the Apple iPhone customer retention rates at 89% versus competing smartphone manufacturers of whom the highest rank, HTC, had a mere 39% retention rate.
I hope those complaining about Apple iPhone issues are complaining at least as fervently about issues with Android-based smartphones; battery life, GPS, heating and Wi-Fi signal which are issues for one model of Android-based smartphone, Samsung Galaxy S2.
The most remarkable lesson learned should be that Apple exceeds every standard to such an incredible level that a 0.55% customer reported issue rate and 2% return rate causes a worldwide scandal while the expectations of competitors' customers is so low that 16% return rate barely causes a stir.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony
Just like the upgrade from the iPhone 4 to the 4S then? Or are you talking about a phone that isn't even released yet?
Do you think the S3 or S III will be half an upgrade?
Double the cores.
12 Megapixel camera (catch up to the N8 and Sony's new phone)
Improve the camera beyond the megapixels like the iPhone 4S and the HTC One X
Do something about the audio, like HTC with beats.
Screen from the Nexus, maybe not pentile this time.
Do you think they'll clone Siri, with a Korean accent?
I'm sure the Android fans will be creaming themselves over it's superiority as Samsung's overhyped marketing swings into action.
Thinking about this it seems the black and white is more a Blackberry thing as was pointed out earlier.
If it was Samsung they would go for blue and white, they would show their true colours, it's not like them to hide with too much obscurity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
Haven't you heard? Samsung Electronic's profit is up 100%, while the entire organization's revenue is up 20% mostly due to its mobile division (hint: smartphone sales)..
Apple = next Nokia / RIM?? Remember it's Samsung who's taking over from behind.. Samsung mobile's last year sales was up 300%.
Nokia kept growing for several years after the iPhone was released as well. Didn't last. They're in a race to the bottom with the prime mover in this marketplace. Samsung also depends upon Google, which so far hasn't done anywhere near as good a job updating Android as Apple has done with iOS. Cust sat figures don't lie.
Samsung will find it increasingly difficult to compete with Apple on price and on features over the next 2-3 years. That'll force them to compete by reducing their margins. Look to RIMM and Nokia to see how that story ends.
And of course, Googlerola is now a direct competitor. What if Google decides to keep new versions of Android for itself, or if they switch their attentions to a Chrome-based Motorola smartphone that can run Android apps? Either would be a disaster for Samsung (although it could finally give Apple a run for its money).
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Do you think the S3 or S III will be half an upgrade?
Double the cores.
12 Megapixel camera (catch up to the N8 and Sony's new phone)
Improve the camera beyond the megapixels like the iPhone 4S and the HTC One X
Do something about the audio, like HTC with beats.
Screen from the Nexus, maybe not pentile this time.
Do you think they'll clone Siri, with a Korean accent?
I'm sure the Android fans will be creaming themselves over it's superiority as Samsung's overhyped marketing swings into action.
Thinking about this it seems the black and white is more a Blackberry thing as was pointed out earlier.
If it was Samsung they would go for blue and white, they would show their true colours, it's not like them to hide with too much obscurity.
No idea as it's not released....
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Do you think they'll clone Siri, with a Korean accent?
According to Steve Wozniak Co-Founder of Apple, Android already has a superior voice recognition system LOLOLOLOL
Samsung is doing great as their quarterly results indicate but there is some illogical thought process (perhaps from being ignorant or perhaps done purposely) that makes those anti-Apple/ pro-Samsung posters think of only the flagship device out of dozens of models on the market and assume that the flagship device is the device that is selling so well.
Perhaps Samsung's flagship devices are outselling every other handset they make much like with the flagship iPhone but I've seen nary a person comment on Samsung's ARP per handset. Without knowing that these anti-Apple posters have absolutely no credibility in predicting the iPhone's demise.
So far we have exactly one other handset vendor that is doing well — which is great, I'd like to see more get a decent foothold — but Samsung doing well on stolen IP is no indication that Apple is faltering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
but Samsung doing well on stolen IP is no indication that Apple is faltering.
Spoken like a true fb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHD
Spoken like a true…
Stop.