I guess you haven't used either of them, but, obviously, the UIs are distinct.
This has already been discussed. The UI of the iPod Touch, iPhone, and iPad are virtually identical. Everything works exactly the same on all three devices. The only real difference is the spacing of the icons and number of icons on the screen - which is a trivial difference.
Some developers choose to make different apps for the different devices, but that's not a UI difference.
Well Apple is making their phone size to keep up with the competitors, why not their tablet. As big as they are, I am shocked how slow they move. I guess Steve was just too happy about "All the things they didn't release".
Where is the evidence that people are lapping up smaller tablets in large numbers? Kindle Fire seems to be the only one and that probably is due to the Amazon brand more than anything else.
Where is the evidence that people are lapping up smaller tablets in large numbers? Kindle Fire seems to be the only one and that probably is due to the Amazon brand more than anything else.
Not sure the numbers, but those people that use their iPad as a camera would definitely look a little less ignorant if they had a smaller device to hold up and take the picture. hmmmmm, maybe a camera!!!! :-)
This has already been discussed. The UI of the iPod Touch, iPhone, and iPad are virtually identical. Everything works exactly the same on all three devices. The only real difference is the spacing of the icons and number of icons on the screen - which is a trivial difference.
Some developers choose to make different apps for the different devices, but that's not a UI difference.
I suppose it depends on the level of detail you look at, but I view them as distinct, with commonalities.
I suppose it depends on the level of detail you look at, but I view them as distinct, with commonalities.
What are the differences between the iPhone UI and the iPad UI?
Same icon layout. Same icons. Same function to go to home page, Same procedure to move to a different page. Same way to activate an app. Same way to quit apps. or rearrange apps. Same way to change settings. Virtually EVERYTHING in the UI is the same. The only real difference is that the iPad has more icons - which isn't really a UI difference, but even if you want to count something so trivial as a UI difference, it's one tiny difference in an ocean of identical behavior.
The real question is how much larger market an 8" tablet can address.
None. In fact, the market for a 7" is multiple times smaller than the iPad's market now.
Quote:
I'll admit it: I hate the iPad's size when it comes to typing. It is awkward to hold, and the keyboards really aren't well done. The portrait split keyboard isn't too bad, but laying in bed typing is pretty awkward.
Really? I've been able to touch-type (with two hands, landscape) since a few weeks after I got mine, and I've trained myself to be able to type very quickly with all five fingers of one hand across both the landscape and portrait keyboards (I'm faster on the latter with one hand). Maybe that's just me; I dunno.
None. In fact, the market for a 7" is multiple times smaller than the iPad's market now.
Multiple times smaller? I don't think so.
Last year, Apple had somewhere around 60-65% of the tablet market, so everyone else combined was 35-40%. The largest seller was the Kindle Fire at 7". A number of other 7" tablets were also major sellers. I don't think any of the 10" tablets were among the top sellers - except the HP closeout tablets, and there weren't that many of them (estimated at half a million). If the 7" was only 1/2 of the non-Apple tablet market, that's still 1/3 of the size of the iPad market. And since Apple would do a better job than the other competitors, that percentage would probably grow if Apple were to release a 7" tablet.
Are you sure the 7" screens are for a new iPad Mini what if they are for a new iBook, similar to this mock up.
Well, they can't use that name, but if we're going the completely touch route for a product that doesn't conform to anyone's belief of the future, I've always preferred this design:
What are the differences between the iPhone UI and the iPad UI?
Same icon layout. Same icons. Same function to go to home page, Same procedure to move to a different page. Same way to activate an app. Same way to quit apps. or rearrange apps. Same way to change settings. Virtually EVERYTHING in the UI is the same. The only real difference is that the iPad has more icons - which isn't really a UI difference, but even if you want to count something so trivial as a UI difference, it's one tiny difference in an ocean of identical behavior.
There are in fact a number of differences. For example, the popover and split view are iPad only. The iOS HIG highlights a number of other differences and recommendations:
There are in fact a number of differences. For example, the popover and split view are iPad only. The iOS HIG highlights a number of other differences and recommendations:
Interesting, but that site talks extensively about iOS UI guidelines - not iPad or iPhone UI guidelines. The same is true of all the connected documents. That confirms that Apple sees them as the same UI.
You did manage to find a couple of differences. Congratulations. But those differences are used only in apps and not in the OS UI. Furthermore, a couple of very minor differences out of 10,000 UI features hardly proves that they are entirely different - especially when Apple says they're the same by referring to iOS UI rather than iPhone or iPad UI.
Apple has over 70% of the shipped market and 95% of the being-used market. A 7" iPad would be filling in cracks, not a catalyst for gross expansion.
The 'being used' market share is irrelevant. You get money from the 'as shipped' market, so that is what Apple would be looking at in order to determine whether to make a product. (Plus, an iPad Mini would probably have a usage pattern closer to the iPad than to the Kindle Fire, anyway).
I'm skeptical of your number. I've seen Apple's market share reported as low as 55% and as high as 68%. But even if we accept your 70% figure, it looks like I underestimated the number of 7" tablets. During the 4th quarter, the Kindle Fire alone was 54% of all non-iPod tablet sales. When you consider that the 10" Android tablets were about as expensive as an iPad, it's not surprising that there was less incentive to skip the iPad for a 10" android tablet as there was for skipping the iPad to go with a cheap 7" tablet. With Fire being half of all non-iPad sales, it is likely that 7" tablets were at least 75% of the non-iPad sales, probably more. http://news.yahoo.com/kindle-fire-market-share-tumbles-q1-ipad-launches-173552121.html
The 'being used' market share is irrelevant. You get money from the 'as shipped' market, so that is what Apple would be looking at in order to determine whether to make a product.
So people who never actually use their Kindles are just going to go right ahead and buy another one, then?
So people who never actually use their Kindles are just going to go right ahead and buy another one, then?
Who said that?
First, the usage patterns you're citing are for Internet access. If Kindle Fire users mostly use their tablets as e-readers, they could be using them every day and not show up in those figures.
Second, we're talking about new customers, not those who just bought new devices. Android device sales will continue next year - whether the people who bought last year buy new ones or not. Apple has the chance to pick up many of them if they sell a 7" tablet.
Interesting, but that site talks extensively about iOS UI guidelines - not iPad or iPhone UI guidelines. The same is true of all the connected documents. That confirms that Apple sees them as the same UI.
You did manage to find a couple of differences. Congratulations. But those differences are used only in apps and not in the OS UI. Furthermore, a couple of very minor differences out of 10,000 UI features hardly proves that they are entirely different - especially when Apple says they're the same by referring to iOS UI rather than iPhone or iPad UI.
Well, view it however you want, but they are different.
I think $299 is more realistic given the market and the savings compared to the $399 iPad. At that price, I believe it will sell very well. There are millions of 7" tablets being sold and the iPad could take a large percentage of those.
Given a $299 (or even $349) iPad Mini vas a $399 iPad 2, I don't think it's as clear cut as you're suggesting. A lot of people would choose it for the form factor regardless of the price. Others would say "it does just about everything that the 10" iPad does and it's $50 or $100 cheaper". I really didn't expect the $399 iPad 2 to continue to sell well after the new iPad was released but it did. Some people put a very high value on the price - even when the difference is modest.
What savings? You still have many of the same components and cost and I can't imagine Apple opting for a resolution below what is now used on the iPad 2. As such, the price difference between the screen used on the iPad 2 and what would be used on the 7-inch iPad would not result in $100 less cost for Apple. Keep in mind that what matters from Apple's perspective is, what does it cost to produce the iPad 2 and what does it cost to produce the rumoured 7-inch device. The difference, I suspect, would be far less than $100. I'm sure that you personally would rather pay $100 less but why would Apple leave profit on the table. Every 7-incher Apple were to sell at the expense of the iPad 2, would cost Apple money. Even at say $30 per unit, if you're talking say 1 million units, that's $30 million off the bottom line.
There is another factor. Forcing someone to run iPad software on a smaller device, diminishes the user experience and that hurts the Apple brand over the long haul. Maybe initially the consumer knows what sort of trade-off he or she is making but in the long run, all that person will take away from owning the 7-inch tablet is that it wasn't suh a great device after all.
There is nothing in this for Apple and as such, you have to wonder why Apple would bother.
By the way, I'm one those people who bought te iPad 2 instead of the new version and I am happy with making that choice. The iPad 2 is a good product and for me $100 matters.
I'll upgrade when Apple reduces the weight and heat caused by using a Retina display.
Right, that's why the HIG doesn't have iPad and iPhone specific sections... except for the sections that are.
I know you never admit that you are wrong, but you simply are in this case, including the above comment. The UIs are very similar, the behaviors are very similar, but they are different, and the user experiences are different. There's nothing wrong with them being distinct, and the differences are certainly substantially less than between iOS apps as a whole and OS X apps, but they aren't identical UIs.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyzlmt
Whats the difference between a bigger iPod touch and a smaller iPad?
With a bigger iPod, all the icons etc would appear larger, more widely spaced when compared to a standard iPod if the UI was unchanged.
With a smaller iPad, all the icons etc would appear smaller and closer together compared to a standard iPad - potentially harder to use?
This has already been discussed. The UI of the iPod Touch, iPhone, and iPad are virtually identical. Everything works exactly the same on all three devices. The only real difference is the spacing of the icons and number of icons on the screen - which is a trivial difference.
Some developers choose to make different apps for the different devices, but that's not a UI difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Where is the evidence that people are lapping up smaller tablets in large numbers? Kindle Fire seems to be the only one and that probably is due to the Amazon brand more than anything else.
Not sure the numbers, but those people that use their iPad as a camera would definitely look a little less ignorant if they had a smaller device to hold up and take the picture. hmmmmm, maybe a camera!!!! :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
This has already been discussed. The UI of the iPod Touch, iPhone, and iPad are virtually identical. Everything works exactly the same on all three devices. The only real difference is the spacing of the icons and number of icons on the screen - which is a trivial difference.
Some developers choose to make different apps for the different devices, but that's not a UI difference.
I suppose it depends on the level of detail you look at, but I view them as distinct, with commonalities.
What are the differences between the iPhone UI and the iPad UI?
Same icon layout. Same icons. Same function to go to home page, Same procedure to move to a different page. Same way to activate an app. Same way to quit apps. or rearrange apps. Same way to change settings. Virtually EVERYTHING in the UI is the same. The only real difference is that the iPad has more icons - which isn't really a UI difference, but even if you want to count something so trivial as a UI difference, it's one tiny difference in an ocean of identical behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
The real question is how much larger market an 8" tablet can address.
None. In fact, the market for a 7" is multiple times smaller than the iPad's market now.
Quote:
I'll admit it: I hate the iPad's size when it comes to typing. It is awkward to hold, and the keyboards really aren't well done. The portrait split keyboard isn't too bad, but laying in bed typing is pretty awkward.
Really? I've been able to touch-type (with two hands, landscape) since a few weeks after I got mine, and I've trained myself to be able to type very quickly with all five fingers of one hand across both the landscape and portrait keyboards (I'm faster on the latter with one hand). Maybe that's just me; I dunno.
Multiple times smaller? I don't think so.
Last year, Apple had somewhere around 60-65% of the tablet market, so everyone else combined was 35-40%. The largest seller was the Kindle Fire at 7". A number of other 7" tablets were also major sellers. I don't think any of the 10" tablets were among the top sellers - except the HP closeout tablets, and there weren't that many of them (estimated at half a million). If the 7" was only 1/2 of the non-Apple tablet market, that's still 1/3 of the size of the iPad market. And since Apple would do a better job than the other competitors, that percentage would probably grow if Apple were to release a 7" tablet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Multiple times smaller? I don't think so.
Last year, Apple had somewhere around 60-65% of the tablet market, so everyone else combined was 35-40%. The largest seller was the Kindle Fire at 7".
Apple has over 70% of the shipped market and 95% of the being-used market. A 7" iPad would be filling in cracks, not a catalyst for gross expansion.
Are you sure the 7" screens are for a new iPad Mini what if they are for a new iBook, similar to this mock up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Turn
Are you sure the 7" screens are for a new iPad Mini what if they are for a new iBook, similar to this mock up.
Well, they can't use that name, but if we're going the completely touch route for a product that doesn't conform to anyone's belief of the future, I've always preferred this design:
GOSH DANG IT, HUDDLER. NO ONE CAN SEE THAT.
http://i.imgur.com/alVH6.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
What are the differences between the iPhone UI and the iPad UI?
Same icon layout. Same icons. Same function to go to home page, Same procedure to move to a different page. Same way to activate an app. Same way to quit apps. or rearrange apps. Same way to change settings. Virtually EVERYTHING in the UI is the same. The only real difference is that the iPad has more icons - which isn't really a UI difference, but even if you want to count something so trivial as a UI difference, it's one tiny difference in an ocean of identical behavior.
There are in fact a number of differences. For example, the popover and split view are iPad only. The iOS HIG highlights a number of other differences and recommendations:
http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/MobileHIG/Introduction/Introduction.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40006556
Interesting, but that site talks extensively about iOS UI guidelines - not iPad or iPhone UI guidelines. The same is true of all the connected documents. That confirms that Apple sees them as the same UI.
You did manage to find a couple of differences. Congratulations. But those differences are used only in apps and not in the OS UI. Furthermore, a couple of very minor differences out of 10,000 UI features hardly proves that they are entirely different - especially when Apple says they're the same by referring to iOS UI rather than iPhone or iPad UI.
The 'being used' market share is irrelevant. You get money from the 'as shipped' market, so that is what Apple would be looking at in order to determine whether to make a product. (Plus, an iPad Mini would probably have a usage pattern closer to the iPad than to the Kindle Fire, anyway).
I'm skeptical of your number. I've seen Apple's market share reported as low as 55% and as high as 68%. But even if we accept your 70% figure, it looks like I underestimated the number of 7" tablets. During the 4th quarter, the Kindle Fire alone was 54% of all non-iPod tablet sales. When you consider that the 10" Android tablets were about as expensive as an iPad, it's not surprising that there was less incentive to skip the iPad for a 10" android tablet as there was for skipping the iPad to go with a cheap 7" tablet. With Fire being half of all non-iPad sales, it is likely that 7" tablets were at least 75% of the non-iPad sales, probably more.
http://news.yahoo.com/kindle-fire-market-share-tumbles-q1-ipad-launches-173552121.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
The 'being used' market share is irrelevant. You get money from the 'as shipped' market, so that is what Apple would be looking at in order to determine whether to make a product.
So people who never actually use their Kindles are just going to go right ahead and buy another one, then?
Who said that?
First, the usage patterns you're citing are for Internet access. If Kindle Fire users mostly use their tablets as e-readers, they could be using them every day and not show up in those figures.
Second, we're talking about new customers, not those who just bought new devices. Android device sales will continue next year - whether the people who bought last year buy new ones or not. Apple has the chance to pick up many of them if they sell a 7" tablet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Interesting, but that site talks extensively about iOS UI guidelines - not iPad or iPhone UI guidelines. The same is true of all the connected documents. That confirms that Apple sees them as the same UI.
You did manage to find a couple of differences. Congratulations. But those differences are used only in apps and not in the OS UI. Furthermore, a couple of very minor differences out of 10,000 UI features hardly proves that they are entirely different - especially when Apple says they're the same by referring to iOS UI rather than iPhone or iPad UI.
Well, view it however you want, but they are different.
Apple apparently doesn't think so.
What savings? You still have many of the same components and cost and I can't imagine Apple opting for a resolution below what is now used on the iPad 2. As such, the price difference between the screen used on the iPad 2 and what would be used on the 7-inch iPad would not result in $100 less cost for Apple. Keep in mind that what matters from Apple's perspective is, what does it cost to produce the iPad 2 and what does it cost to produce the rumoured 7-inch device. The difference, I suspect, would be far less than $100. I'm sure that you personally would rather pay $100 less but why would Apple leave profit on the table. Every 7-incher Apple were to sell at the expense of the iPad 2, would cost Apple money. Even at say $30 per unit, if you're talking say 1 million units, that's $30 million off the bottom line.
There is another factor. Forcing someone to run iPad software on a smaller device, diminishes the user experience and that hurts the Apple brand over the long haul. Maybe initially the consumer knows what sort of trade-off he or she is making but in the long run, all that person will take away from owning the 7-inch tablet is that it wasn't suh a great device after all.
There is nothing in this for Apple and as such, you have to wonder why Apple would bother.
By the way, I'm one those people who bought te iPad 2 instead of the new version and I am happy with making that choice. The iPad 2 is a good product and for me $100 matters.
I'll upgrade when Apple reduces the weight and heat caused by using a Retina display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Apple apparently doesn't think so.
Right, that's why the HIG doesn't have iPad and iPhone specific sections... except for the sections that are.
I know you never admit that you are wrong, but you simply are in this case, including the above comment. The UIs are very similar, the behaviors are very similar, but they are different, and the user experiences are different. There's nothing wrong with them being distinct, and the differences are certainly substantially less than between iOS apps as a whole and OS X apps, but they aren't identical UIs.