From my experiences travelling across Asia (and I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the same holds true for Europe), I would MUCH prefer a "push-pull" method over a tray. Especially a tray that requires a small, easy-to-lose ejector key to open.
From my experiences travelling across Asia (and I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the same holds true for Europe), I would MUCH prefer a "push-pull" method over a tray. Especially a tray that requires a small, easy-to-lose ejector key to open.
From my experiences travelling across Asia (and I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the same holds true for Europe), I would MUCH prefer a "push-pull" method over a tray. Especially a tray that requires a small, easy-to-lose ejector key to open.
Push-pull with what method to protect the opening? Others have pointed out that a little piece of rubber is often used to plug the hole, which is unreliable because they don't stay in place very well for very long. And the rubber stretches or shrinks, they hang out and tend to get broken off. Apple's tray is absolutely reliable, doesn't accidentally pull out, and can be ejected with a thumb tack or a paper clip. I think they're better off putting their SIM card in the battery bay like usual than use the push-pull method with a rubber plug. Maybe some kind of sliding cover.
From my experiences travelling across Asia (and I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the same holds true for Europe), I would MUCH prefer a "push-pull" method over a tray. Especially a tray that requires a small, easy-to-lose ejector key to open.
I know! I'm always having to go to a specialty store where they sell these things called PAPER CLIPS and paying through the nose to buy another pack.
cute, everybody copies apples' designs, (or modifies them) . but, this is the way Apple products shoud be copied... by making the new design better (or at least different)
in any case /joke
It's not really the case. Perhaps you're just trolling? They all proposed designs before. Apple was trying to push theirs. Apple wanted their design to be implemented as it would provide further patent leverage. I don't know how that factors in now. Anyway it's not like these others didn't provide their own reference designs already. Nokia contributed way more to SIM design than Apple in the past, yet you can't seem to recognize that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1
Again, this is simply making the current design somewhat smaller - and the design that RIM and Nokia want necessitates the use of a slot cover. This is not moving forward and it's one of the reasons why RIM and Nokia are not performing at the same level that Apple is. Apple was right in wanting to move away from SIMs altogether. They are not a lot different than the floppy drive, cd's, dvd's, etc. These old-school businesses are holding onto the past and instead should be trying to push forward.
Perhaps you should read up on the function of sims. The engineering behind them is really impressive.
Push-pull with what method to protect the opening? Others have pointed out that a little piece of rubber is often used to plug the hole, which is unreliable because they don't stay in place very well for very long. And the rubber stretches or shrinks, they hang out and tend to get broken off. Apple's tray is absolutely reliable, doesn't accidentally pull out, and can be ejected with a thumb tack or a paper clip. I think they're better off putting their SIM card in the battery bay like usual than use the push-pull method with a rubber plug. Maybe some kind of sliding cover.
I never had issues with the plastic cover tabs; I don't doubt that there may be phones out there where they're badly designed though. I've absolutely never had a SIM get accidentally pulled out from a push-pull. And that said, there's no reason you can't incorporate a pushpull mechanism inside the battery compartment, avoiding the whole cover/accidental release issue altogether. And no, i generally don't carry paperclips or thumbtacks with me when I travel.
I never had issues with the plastic cover tabs; I don't doubt that there may be phones out there where they're badly designed though. I've absolutely never had a SIM get accidentally pulled out from a push-pull. And that said, there's no reason you can't incorporate a pushpull mechanism inside the battery compartment, avoiding the whole cover/accidental release issue altogether.
I didn't think about losing the card, but that style of mechanism is pretty good about holding the card. I was concerned about debris getting into the slot.
While it's possible, I don't think that mechanism would be needed at all if it was inside the battery compartment.
And no, i generally don't carry paperclips or thumbtacks with me when I travel.
I would think the hotel front desk would have them.
I didn't think about losing the card, but that style of mechanism is pretty good about holding the card. I was concerned about debris getting into the slot.
While it's possible, I don't think that mechanism would be needed at all if it was inside the battery compartment.
Even without a cover, with a SIM card inside the slot, there isn't much area for debris to get into. I suppose a hair can slip in the spacing between the SIM and the slot, but larger pieces generally aren't going to make their way in there.
The current, most-used design in the battery compartment is just a pair of rails to slide the SIM in between. IMO a push pull mechanism, while yes, unnecessary, would be an upgrade in terms of ease of use and securing the card in place.
On the tray method, I'm more concern about losing the actual tray than the SIM. As an aside, I would probably be a lot more comfortable with the tray on the iPhone if it only slide out enough to drop the SIM in instead of completely detaching from the phone.
Quote:
I would think the hotel front desk would have them.
Yeah, that's what my sister usually does when she travels with her iP4. Its still a hassle I would rather avoid if possible.
Even without a cover, with a SIM card inside the slot, there isn't much area for debris to get into. I suppose a hair can slip in the spacing between the SIM and the slot, but larger pieces generally aren't going to make their way in there.
I was thinking lint and dirt, not larger pieces. Over time, it can accumulate and pack inside the slot.
I see no cause for concern on losing a tray, they never get accidentally ejected. It takes a very specific force to allow it to release.
Even without a cover, with a SIM card inside the slot, there isn't much area for debris to get into. I suppose a hair can slip in the spacing between the SIM and the slot, but larger pieces generally aren't going to make their way in there.
The current, most-used design in the battery compartment is just a pair of rails to slide the SIM in between. IMO a push pull mechanism, while yes, unnecessary, would be an upgrade in terms of ease of use and securing the card in place.
On the tray method, I'm more concern about losing the actual tray than the SIM. As an aside, I would probably be a lot more comfortable with the tray on the iPhone if it only slide out enough to drop the SIM in instead of completely detaching from the phone.
Yeah, that's what my sister usually does when she travels with her iP4. Its still a hassle I would rather avoid if possible.
edited for better readability.
What you are missing with the concept of the push push SIM with external SIM cover is the overall design of the phone. Apple doesn't want, and rightfully so, to have the crappy, old-school, failure prone plastic cover that is connected by a rubber or synthetic living hinge. It's a bad design, forces a certain look to the phone overall and is the wrong way to think about it. Nokia was pissy about it because they have to posture so that they don't appear to be having to take design direction from Apple. My guess is that they'll probably copy Apple's tray anyway because design will end up dictating that.
Apple's tray in form and function sits flush to the case, is easy to open, easy to hold while placing a SIM in it and you would have to have fingers the size of sausages and be near-blind to lose the tray while swapping SIMs. In case you haven't noticed, Apple has been moving away from plastic anything with their phones, computers, etc. It's what makes the iPhone and iPad and MacBook Air / Pro's, iMac, Mac Pro, stand out from the crowd of cheap looking, cheap feeling, cheaply designed, throwaway products from the likes of RIM, Nokia, Samsung, etc.
What you are missing with the concept of the push push SIM with external SIM cover is the overall design of the phone. Apple doesn't want, and rightfully so, to have the crappy, old-school, failure prone plastic cover that is connected by a rubber or synthetic living hinge...
I have a cheap Nokia laying around, it has a push-push slot for the microSD-card on the side. The slot doesn't have a door, it's simply below the battery cover, which is very easy to open/close. This is the best design even for SIM card slots, IMO. No possibility for dirt entering, easy to open without tools, completely hidden from the outside of the phone.
What you are missing with the concept of the push push SIM with external SIM cover is the overall design of the phone. Apple doesn't want, and rightfully so, to have the crappy, old-school, failure prone plastic cover that is connected by a rubber or synthetic living hinge. It's a bad design, forces a certain look to the phone overall and is the wrong way to think about it. Nokia was pissy about it because they have to posture so that they don't appear to be having to take design direction from Apple. My guess is that they'll probably copy Apple's tray anyway because design will end up dictating that.
And here I was thinking Nokia's objection was Apple was trying to devalue their current IP around SIM cards and in turn reduce how much money they pay Nokia. Remove your fanaticism from the situation and rethink this.
And here I was thinking Nokia's objection was Apple was trying to devalue their current IP around SIM cards and in turn reduce how much money they pay Nokia. Remove your fanaticism from the situation and rethink this.
The prior article from a couple months back suggested that Apple wanted to offer the new one in exchange for patent rights to all FRAND patents on a company by company basis. Basically the sim design for whatever IP is needed to produce a phone. Unless this is inaccurate, you're right in that the motivation was most likely patent leverage.
I kind of want to apply the 'first world problems' label here, but mobile phones are pretty much everywhere.
And here I was thinking Nokia's objection was Apple was trying to devalue their current IP around SIM cards and in turn reduce how much money they pay Nokia. Remove your fanaticism from the situation and rethink this.
First of all, I wasn't suggesting that there is only one reason Apple was proposing a change to the SIM standard. Second, without reading the SIM patent(s) that Nokia holds, I wouldn't make assumptions that it's all about a design patent for the size and shape of a SIM. Apple may have to pay a licensing fee regardless of the size/shape of the SIM, but again, I'm not reading Nokia's patents to confirm this.
My point is that Apple is one of the few companies out there that try to make things better, not just settle for how things were done in the past. I'm not an Apple fanatic, but rather a design and technology fanatic. Just from my own personal experience and that of seeing first hand what happens when you use the old rubber gasket design SIM cover or worse, the behind the battery design, tells me there has to be a better way. Not only have I had old feature phones where the SIM covers broke off or the battery covers stopped staying on the phone, I see my kid's feature phones all have this exact problem. My daughter went through 4 phones in the past 2 years, finally upgrading to an iP4. Each one of her crappy feature phones lost the SIM covers or had missing battery covers.
So Nokia wants to just keep using what they have - great thinking. So they want to hold on to their patent so that they can make money somehow - but this won't last - can't last. As I've said before, even Nokia will have to make changes to the design of the SIM port when they stop making removable batteries and use metal chassis's for their phones. Perhaps they'll create a new SIM door patent for use with metal phones? Wait, what I am thinking. I meant Apple will do that, because Nokia is too stuck in the past to do something creative like that.
cute, everybody copies apples' designs, (or modifies them) . but, this is the way Apple products shoud be copied... by making the new design better (or at least different)
in any case /joke
first off, it is a proposal not a patented design. And it's a proposal for a standard meaning Apple wants folks to copy it.
second, instead of making jokes you should be applauding that Moto and Rim are willing to work with Apple's idea rather than continuing to simply push their own. Seems to me that this is a very good compromise that addresses the only valid argument they had against the Apple proposal. So good that I suspect that Apple will find no fault with it and agree to it.
How well do external phone slots hold up to debris? I've never owned a phone with an external slot, but it seems insisting on direct external access seems a little silly. To take a tangential example, all my cameras have doors covering the slots. A buddy's iPhone gets a lot of lint packed into the dock, which causes me to think the tray is a good idea for the SIM card, you get a good cover for the slot. A dock connector can be scraped out with a plastic or wood tooth pick, a card slot isn't so easy.
The design of the sim tray is such that it closes itself. the pin hole is very small so there is little risk of anything getting in there outside of if you dunk your phone in water for several seconds.
There isn't likely to be an external phone slot without the Apple style tray. Moto and Rim likely objected on the grounds that Apple's design had nothing to lock placement for the same internal design they use now (under the removal battery). If a sim card doesn't stay perfectly in place it can muck up reception etc. That's why they have some kind of metal or whatever that snaps down to hold it in place. But without a hole or a groove to line up that piece it doesn't really work.
Still looks like they are just removing as much plastic around the contacts only. In my mind, a nano-sim should be a quarter to half the size of the current micro-sim.
Apple tried something in that regards but only better. A software SIM. And the carriers, especially in Europe, flipped out. Frankly I think it's an awesome idea. Verizon and Sprint with their MEID etc stuff are in a way just as easy to replace a phone, when their CS folks aren't being slow morons.
That "switching carriers on the fly" is why the carriers opposed the no SIM phone concept.
But you can switch even with a Sim. pop out one sim card and pop in another and you have switched.
The only way to prevent switching is to lock the baseband in some way that no one can every unlock it (which is just a dare to get someone to prove yes it can be), crazy ass ETF fees with some kind of incentive like discounts for being a long time subscriber (cutting activation fees for new handsets wouldn't hurt either) etc.
Or you can do like Verizon and Sprint which is to use totally different MEID numbering systems so that there's no id that can be moved between systems. That will work great if you can get the hardware companies on board since they will have to program your numbers into the phones they are making for you.
That's the problem. Having to rely on anybody else for something you could easily do yourself is a hassle. Also consider this issue with international travel in mind.
Comments
From my experiences travelling across Asia (and I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the same holds true for Europe), I would MUCH prefer a "push-pull" method over a tray. Especially a tray that requires a small, easy-to-lose ejector key to open.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo
From my experiences travelling across Asia (and I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the same holds true for Europe), I would MUCH prefer a "push-pull" method over a tray. Especially a tray that requires a small, easy-to-lose ejector key to open.
Do they not have paper clips in Asia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Do they not have paper clips in Asia?
Push-pull with what method to protect the opening? Others have pointed out that a little piece of rubber is often used to plug the hole, which is unreliable because they don't stay in place very well for very long. And the rubber stretches or shrinks, they hang out and tend to get broken off. Apple's tray is absolutely reliable, doesn't accidentally pull out, and can be ejected with a thumb tack or a paper clip. I think they're better off putting their SIM card in the battery bay like usual than use the push-pull method with a rubber plug. Maybe some kind of sliding cover.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo
From my experiences travelling across Asia (and I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the same holds true for Europe), I would MUCH prefer a "push-pull" method over a tray. Especially a tray that requires a small, easy-to-lose ejector key to open.
I know! I'm always having to go to a specialty store where they sell these things called PAPER CLIPS and paying through the nose to buy another pack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haar
cute, everybody copies apples' designs, (or modifies them) . but, this is the way Apple products shoud be copied... by making the new design better (or at least different)
in any case /joke
It's not really the case. Perhaps you're just trolling? They all proposed designs before. Apple was trying to push theirs. Apple wanted their design to be implemented as it would provide further patent leverage. I don't know how that factors in now. Anyway it's not like these others didn't provide their own reference designs already. Nokia contributed way more to SIM design than Apple in the past, yet you can't seem to recognize that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1
Again, this is simply making the current design somewhat smaller - and the design that RIM and Nokia want necessitates the use of a slot cover. This is not moving forward and it's one of the reasons why RIM and Nokia are not performing at the same level that Apple is. Apple was right in wanting to move away from SIMs altogether. They are not a lot different than the floppy drive, cd's, dvd's, etc. These old-school businesses are holding onto the past and instead should be trying to push forward.
Perhaps you should read up on the function of sims. The engineering behind them is really impressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Push-pull with what method to protect the opening? Others have pointed out that a little piece of rubber is often used to plug the hole, which is unreliable because they don't stay in place very well for very long. And the rubber stretches or shrinks, they hang out and tend to get broken off. Apple's tray is absolutely reliable, doesn't accidentally pull out, and can be ejected with a thumb tack or a paper clip. I think they're better off putting their SIM card in the battery bay like usual than use the push-pull method with a rubber plug. Maybe some kind of sliding cover.
I never had issues with the plastic cover tabs; I don't doubt that there may be phones out there where they're badly designed though. I've absolutely never had a SIM get accidentally pulled out from a push-pull. And that said, there's no reason you can't incorporate a pushpull mechanism inside the battery compartment, avoiding the whole cover/accidental release issue altogether. And no, i generally don't carry paperclips or thumbtacks with me when I travel.
I didn't think about losing the card, but that style of mechanism is pretty good about holding the card. I was concerned about debris getting into the slot.
While it's possible, I don't think that mechanism would be needed at all if it was inside the battery compartment.
I would think the hotel front desk would have them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I didn't think about losing the card, but that style of mechanism is pretty good about holding the card. I was concerned about debris getting into the slot.
While it's possible, I don't think that mechanism would be needed at all if it was inside the battery compartment.
Even without a cover, with a SIM card inside the slot, there isn't much area for debris to get into. I suppose a hair can slip in the spacing between the SIM and the slot, but larger pieces generally aren't going to make their way in there.
The current, most-used design in the battery compartment is just a pair of rails to slide the SIM in between. IMO a push pull mechanism, while yes, unnecessary, would be an upgrade in terms of ease of use and securing the card in place.
On the tray method, I'm more concern about losing the actual tray than the SIM. As an aside, I would probably be a lot more comfortable with the tray on the iPhone if it only slide out enough to drop the SIM in instead of completely detaching from the phone.
Quote:
I would think the hotel front desk would have them.
Yeah, that's what my sister usually does when she travels with her iP4. Its still a hassle I would rather avoid if possible.
edited for better readability.
I was thinking lint and dirt, not larger pieces. Over time, it can accumulate and pack inside the slot.
I see no cause for concern on losing a tray, they never get accidentally ejected. It takes a very specific force to allow it to release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo
Even without a cover, with a SIM card inside the slot, there isn't much area for debris to get into. I suppose a hair can slip in the spacing between the SIM and the slot, but larger pieces generally aren't going to make their way in there.
The current, most-used design in the battery compartment is just a pair of rails to slide the SIM in between. IMO a push pull mechanism, while yes, unnecessary, would be an upgrade in terms of ease of use and securing the card in place.
On the tray method, I'm more concern about losing the actual tray than the SIM. As an aside, I would probably be a lot more comfortable with the tray on the iPhone if it only slide out enough to drop the SIM in instead of completely detaching from the phone.
Yeah, that's what my sister usually does when she travels with her iP4. Its still a hassle I would rather avoid if possible.
edited for better readability.
What you are missing with the concept of the push push SIM with external SIM cover is the overall design of the phone. Apple doesn't want, and rightfully so, to have the crappy, old-school, failure prone plastic cover that is connected by a rubber or synthetic living hinge. It's a bad design, forces a certain look to the phone overall and is the wrong way to think about it. Nokia was pissy about it because they have to posture so that they don't appear to be having to take design direction from Apple. My guess is that they'll probably copy Apple's tray anyway because design will end up dictating that.
Apple's tray in form and function sits flush to the case, is easy to open, easy to hold while placing a SIM in it and you would have to have fingers the size of sausages and be near-blind to lose the tray while swapping SIMs. In case you haven't noticed, Apple has been moving away from plastic anything with their phones, computers, etc. It's what makes the iPhone and iPad and MacBook Air / Pro's, iMac, Mac Pro, stand out from the crowd of cheap looking, cheap feeling, cheaply designed, throwaway products from the likes of RIM, Nokia, Samsung, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1
What you are missing with the concept of the push push SIM with external SIM cover is the overall design of the phone. Apple doesn't want, and rightfully so, to have the crappy, old-school, failure prone plastic cover that is connected by a rubber or synthetic living hinge...
I have a cheap Nokia laying around, it has a push-push slot for the microSD-card on the side. The slot doesn't have a door, it's simply below the battery cover, which is very easy to open/close. This is the best design even for SIM card slots, IMO. No possibility for dirt entering, easy to open without tools, completely hidden from the outside of the phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1
What you are missing with the concept of the push push SIM with external SIM cover is the overall design of the phone. Apple doesn't want, and rightfully so, to have the crappy, old-school, failure prone plastic cover that is connected by a rubber or synthetic living hinge. It's a bad design, forces a certain look to the phone overall and is the wrong way to think about it. Nokia was pissy about it because they have to posture so that they don't appear to be having to take design direction from Apple. My guess is that they'll probably copy Apple's tray anyway because design will end up dictating that.
And here I was thinking Nokia's objection was Apple was trying to devalue their current IP around SIM cards and in turn reduce how much money they pay Nokia. Remove your fanaticism from the situation and rethink this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
And here I was thinking Nokia's objection was Apple was trying to devalue their current IP around SIM cards and in turn reduce how much money they pay Nokia. Remove your fanaticism from the situation and rethink this.
The prior article from a couple months back suggested that Apple wanted to offer the new one in exchange for patent rights to all FRAND patents on a company by company basis. Basically the sim design for whatever IP is needed to produce a phone. Unless this is inaccurate, you're right in that the motivation was most likely patent leverage.
I kind of want to apply the 'first world problems' label here, but mobile phones are pretty much everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
And here I was thinking Nokia's objection was Apple was trying to devalue their current IP around SIM cards and in turn reduce how much money they pay Nokia. Remove your fanaticism from the situation and rethink this.
First of all, I wasn't suggesting that there is only one reason Apple was proposing a change to the SIM standard. Second, without reading the SIM patent(s) that Nokia holds, I wouldn't make assumptions that it's all about a design patent for the size and shape of a SIM. Apple may have to pay a licensing fee regardless of the size/shape of the SIM, but again, I'm not reading Nokia's patents to confirm this.
My point is that Apple is one of the few companies out there that try to make things better, not just settle for how things were done in the past. I'm not an Apple fanatic, but rather a design and technology fanatic. Just from my own personal experience and that of seeing first hand what happens when you use the old rubber gasket design SIM cover or worse, the behind the battery design, tells me there has to be a better way. Not only have I had old feature phones where the SIM covers broke off or the battery covers stopped staying on the phone, I see my kid's feature phones all have this exact problem. My daughter went through 4 phones in the past 2 years, finally upgrading to an iP4. Each one of her crappy feature phones lost the SIM covers or had missing battery covers.
So Nokia wants to just keep using what they have - great thinking. So they want to hold on to their patent so that they can make money somehow - but this won't last - can't last. As I've said before, even Nokia will have to make changes to the design of the SIM port when they stop making removable batteries and use metal chassis's for their phones. Perhaps they'll create a new SIM door patent for use with metal phones? Wait, what I am thinking. I meant Apple will do that, because Nokia is too stuck in the past to do something creative like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haar
cute, everybody copies apples' designs, (or modifies them) . but, this is the way Apple products shoud be copied... by making the new design better (or at least different)
in any case /joke
first off, it is a proposal not a patented design. And it's a proposal for a standard meaning Apple wants folks to copy it.
second, instead of making jokes you should be applauding that Moto and Rim are willing to work with Apple's idea rather than continuing to simply push their own. Seems to me that this is a very good compromise that addresses the only valid argument they had against the Apple proposal. So good that I suspect that Apple will find no fault with it and agree to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
How well do external phone slots hold up to debris? I've never owned a phone with an external slot, but it seems insisting on direct external access seems a little silly. To take a tangential example, all my cameras have doors covering the slots. A buddy's iPhone gets a lot of lint packed into the dock, which causes me to think the tray is a good idea for the SIM card, you get a good cover for the slot. A dock connector can be scraped out with a plastic or wood tooth pick, a card slot isn't so easy.
The design of the sim tray is such that it closes itself. the pin hole is very small so there is little risk of anything getting in there outside of if you dunk your phone in water for several seconds.
There isn't likely to be an external phone slot without the Apple style tray. Moto and Rim likely objected on the grounds that Apple's design had nothing to lock placement for the same internal design they use now (under the removal battery). If a sim card doesn't stay perfectly in place it can muck up reception etc. That's why they have some kind of metal or whatever that snaps down to hold it in place. But without a hole or a groove to line up that piece it doesn't really work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147
Still looks like they are just removing as much plastic around the contacts only. In my mind, a nano-sim should be a quarter to half the size of the current micro-sim.
Apple tried something in that regards but only better. A software SIM. And the carriers, especially in Europe, flipped out. Frankly I think it's an awesome idea. Verizon and Sprint with their MEID etc stuff are in a way just as easy to replace a phone, when their CS folks aren't being slow morons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
That "switching carriers on the fly" is why the carriers opposed the no SIM phone concept.
But you can switch even with a Sim. pop out one sim card and pop in another and you have switched.
The only way to prevent switching is to lock the baseband in some way that no one can every unlock it (which is just a dare to get someone to prove yes it can be), crazy ass ETF fees with some kind of incentive like discounts for being a long time subscriber (cutting activation fees for new handsets wouldn't hurt either) etc.
Or you can do like Verizon and Sprint which is to use totally different MEID numbering systems so that there's no id that can be moved between systems. That will work great if you can get the hardware companies on board since they will have to program your numbers into the phones they are making for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
... when their CS folks aren't being slow morons.
That's the problem. Having to rely on anybody else for something you could easily do yourself is a hassle. Also consider this issue with international travel in mind.