I own a Kindle Touch 3G with Special Offers. I picked it up unopened for $99 through Craigslist because I wanted to give an e-reader a try but didn't want to sweat charging another device daily. (Yes I'm looking at you my iPhone 4) It has become one of my favorite devices and I love the three weeks between charges, the weight and the clear e-ink screen.
I looked up how to jailbreak it via an MP3 and even saw that there was a program that would strip all the advertising from it. I also saw that one of the "apps" Amazon offers is a Special Offers app for Kindles without the ads that can allow them to receive the offers. I decided not to remove the Special Offers because after a few days I found that they were really well targeted. I am in the midst of enjoying 20 Crossfit classes for $24 that I got through my Kindle. I also am reading Slaughterhouse-Five which was a Kindle Daily Deal offered via the lock screen for $0.99. It probably offered that to me because I had purchased the Kindle exclusive Basic Training by Kurt Vonnegut, also for $0.99. The local deals especially have been quite interesting. I can't say what would be there for everyone since I believe they are targeted. In my case it is a lot of dinners for two, fitness offers, book and movie recommendations. The most interesting recent offer was for some dance classes and if not for some scheduling conflicts, I probably would have jumped on it and taken the wife.
If Amazon forces current Kindle owners to accept the special offers, it would break with past practice and would not be a good new practice. However their current practice of giving one a choice and lower priced hardware in exchange for some pretty decent advertising offers has been just great for me. If this allowed Amazon to sell the current Kindle Fire for $99 as component prices drop or perhaps even $150, that is a fair trade.
If Amazon were really going to be smart, they would keep the current hardware for a while and drive the price down, much like what Apple has done with the iPad 2. In addition they should take their variation of Android and make it optimized instead of being such a pig and requiring such massive hardware. It shouldn't be hard to really make the interface and software fly on the dual 1 ghz TI OMAP4 chip the Fire has now. It clearly doesn't do that yet in my estimation, but it could while also getting cheaper.
You people laugh, but I can almost guarantee you that Wall Street is going to love the idea and more money will be pouring into Amazon. Money is money and whoring is good. Jeff Bezos is going to be called a genius and he'll make that many more friends where it counts. Those guys that control Wall Street all love Jeff Bezos and that's why Amazon's P/E is close to 190. Wall Street does not care about end user experience crap. It's not worth anything to them because they can't put a fixed value on something like that. They think it's great if consumers have to click through ads to get to where they want to go. It's what you call a captive audience and that begets ad revenue. The whole Android OS model is built for advertising. It's made for consumers who don't want to pay for anything.
Yes, except people will hate the product, the word will get out, and Amazon will not sell Kindles.
Haha, what do people expect? Cheap people who buy cheap, inferior products, looking to save buck, shouldn't be surprised by any ads. It's the same reason why iOS apps make a ton more money than Android apps. Some people are cheap, and they'd probably pimp out their own sister if that would save them $15 bucks on their next shitty Android phone.
Haha, what do people expect? Cheap people who buy cheap, inferior products, looking to save buck, shouldn't be surprised by any ads. It's the same reason why iOS apps make a ton more money than Android apps. Some people are cheap, and they'd probably pimp out their own sister if that would save them $15 bucks on their next shitty Android phone.
This is pretty much what happens anywhere. Ever see businesses cashing in unused coupons? Seen Extreme couponing? Ever see software that throws an ad on your computer screen and promises you the revenue? Airmiles/points loyalty programs? As long as there have been ways of getting "free" money by some inconvenience, there will be people who think it's a good idea. Those that do eventually cause it to become more inconvenient or not worth it to deal with the extra time wasted to get the discount.
This is the situation we're in now with the Kindle Fire, if they put ads on it, the inconvenience will put off some people, but there will still be buyers. Just the people who buy probably won't have money to actually buy the advertised product, so it's a bit silly for advertisers to assume they'll get any sales from advertising on the device. I must therefor believe that Amazon is only going to flog products they sell by targeting their own customers using their private information.
You expected something different from a POS device sold below his cost?
I read statements like this and wonder if you think before posting. Do you know they're sold below cost? You read it on Appleinsider. The user experience comments are pretty meaningless as they're not based on anything other than bland articles.
Haha, what do people expect? Cheap people who buy cheap, inferior products, looking to save buck, shouldn't be surprised by any ads. It's the same reason why iOS apps make a ton more money than Android apps. Some people are cheap, and they'd probably pimp out their own sister if that would save them $15 bucks on their next shitty Android phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misa
This is pretty much what happens anywhere. Ever see businesses cashing in unused coupons? Seen Extreme couponing? Ever see software that throws an ad on your computer screen and promises you the revenue? Airmiles/points loyalty programs? As long as there have been ways of getting "free" money by some inconvenience, there will be people who think it's a good idea. Those that do eventually cause it to become more inconvenient or not worth it to deal with the extra time wasted to get the discount.
This is the situation we're in now with the Kindle Fire, if they put ads on it, the inconvenience will put off some people, but there will still be buyers. Just the people who buy probably won't have money to actually buy the advertised product, so it's a bit silly for advertisers to assume they'll get any sales from advertising on the device. I must therefor believe that Amazon is only going to flog products they sell by targeting their own customers using their private information.
It's a bit ironic, isn't it: the ads end up reaching precisely the people that the advertiser has the least interest in reaching, since the demographic that it truly wants is the one that will buy the non-ad-supported version of Fire.
Economists have a phrase for this: adverse selection.
Hey, that's actually not a bad idea at all. And on paper towels, as well.
They always waste our money printing stupid little designs on them anyway; they may as well sell that space to advertisers to bring their prices down for us.
I wonder if advertising really does bring prices down like certain parties like to say. It's a tough thing to track when they're taking money from both the customer and the ad buyer.
You are misinformed, as is the article author. This is a patent specific to how iAds work, not just any ad. And it is VERY old news. I laugh when the author asks if Apple is foolish enough to implement this, if he has used more than just a couple iPhone Apps that have ads he probably has seen one himself already, like two years ago.
You are misinformed, as is the article author. This is a patent specific to how iAds work, not just any ad. And it is VERY old news. I laugh when the author asks if Apple is foolish enough to implement this, if he has used more than just a couple iPhone Apps that have ads he probably has seen one himself already, like two years ago.
Which author, the original article talking about Amazon's plans or the article I linked to regarding Apple's patent?
I respectfully say you missed the purpose of my linking to that article. Indeed it is old news... the article was from 2009, if you did not notice. But my point was not to support what the author says, it was to illustrate out that Apple has already patented use of Ads within the OPERATING SYSTEM. This may, as you say, be construed to include iAds today, but back when it was developed it was focused specifically around placing Ads within the operating system.
I was claiming that you can call this ad placement on the welcome screen part of the OS, since it's not an App and is not optional to view these ads.
Here's a better ( and more recent ) article on the subject from Macrumors.com
Amazon, by forcing the user to view the Ad before the system is activated ( or in the case mentioned in the original article as the system is turned off ) by the OS itself instead of within an application could be considered in violation of this patent.
Whether Amazon considered licensing this from Apple is something I wonder.
Here's another riff on Amazon's genius idea: advertising cars! When you start the car, the radio plays a 30 second advertising spot, during which time the transmission is locked into "Park". Drivers can opt out of the advertising by paying a monthly fee of $19.95. Guaranteed windfall profits for the first automaker to implement this brilliant idea!
You expected something different from a POS device sold below his cost?
Cool! Kindle can be used as a point-of-sale terminal?
Apple constantly mentions how many credit cards they have on file and how people use them to purchase items through their iOS devices. How is that any different? Apple even mandates use of their store so they get their 30% cut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Cool! Kindle can be used as a point-of-sale terminal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Of course, you doesn't know the Kindle always being a self service POS for Amazon?
That's like saying the iPhone, iPad and all Android devices are POS terminals for Amazon and myriad other vendors.
No, all iOS devices are limited to being POS terminals only for Apple. No one else is allowed to link to their store.
Apple constantly mentions how many credit cards they have on file and how people use them to purchase items through their iOS devices. How is that any different? Apple even mandates use of their store so they get their 30% cut.
No, all iOS devices are limited to being POS terminals only for Apple. No one else is allowed to link to their store.
Remind me to always clarify my wordplay jokes in the future…
So you reckon their P/E will reach 250 by year end.
One point you are absolutely right is wall street love bozo.
While I agree that investors have gone bonkers over Amazon, it's not quite as bad as it seems. While they are trading at 190 times earnings, they're only at 53 times free cash flow. Cash flow is substantially better than earnings for AMZN. I haven't explored it to find out why or whether that's a short term thing.
Personally, I can't see what the justification is for the rosy earnings. If you look at the price of put options, a significant number of people apparently agree with me, but the market as a whole thinks Amazon is worth the current share price.
I read statements like this and wonder if you think before posting. Do you know they're sold below cost? You read it on Appleinsider. The user experience comments are pretty meaningless as they're not based on anything other than bland articles.
well the barnes and noble tablet the nook was 250, and their were not any rumours that the nook was sold at a loss...
since the platform(amazon fire) is a copy of the blackberry playbook (and that was released at a price of 500) which was then reduced to 200 (fire sale! LOL) so amazon selling it at 200 is really at best a break even price.
it will be tough for Amazon to produce a 10 inch tablet for 299, because they will not be able use RIM's production line of the playbook, for the 10 inch tablet... thus the 10 incher will be 250 with a prime sub, and ads on the screen saver/home page... probably 329 with out the ads included on the screen saver.
but, dont despair, amazon is probably incompetent, so they will not be able to produce a totally-locked-down-10-inch-tablet.... so those with "cheap" in their blood will be able to get a tablet at 250, and become an angry bird (cheep, cheep, cheap, cheap) LOL. (because you will be angry for using a tablet that is so cheap!)
Comments
I own a Kindle Touch 3G with Special Offers. I picked it up unopened for $99 through Craigslist because I wanted to give an e-reader a try but didn't want to sweat charging another device daily. (Yes I'm looking at you my iPhone 4) It has become one of my favorite devices and I love the three weeks between charges, the weight and the clear e-ink screen.
I looked up how to jailbreak it via an MP3 and even saw that there was a program that would strip all the advertising from it. I also saw that one of the "apps" Amazon offers is a Special Offers app for Kindles without the ads that can allow them to receive the offers. I decided not to remove the Special Offers because after a few days I found that they were really well targeted. I am in the midst of enjoying 20 Crossfit classes for $24 that I got through my Kindle. I also am reading Slaughterhouse-Five which was a Kindle Daily Deal offered via the lock screen for $0.99. It probably offered that to me because I had purchased the Kindle exclusive Basic Training by Kurt Vonnegut, also for $0.99. The local deals especially have been quite interesting. I can't say what would be there for everyone since I believe they are targeted. In my case it is a lot of dinners for two, fitness offers, book and movie recommendations. The most interesting recent offer was for some dance classes and if not for some scheduling conflicts, I probably would have jumped on it and taken the wife.
If Amazon forces current Kindle owners to accept the special offers, it would break with past practice and would not be a good new practice. However their current practice of giving one a choice and lower priced hardware in exchange for some pretty decent advertising offers has been just great for me. If this allowed Amazon to sell the current Kindle Fire for $99 as component prices drop or perhaps even $150, that is a fair trade.
If Amazon were really going to be smart, they would keep the current hardware for a while and drive the price down, much like what Apple has done with the iPad 2. In addition they should take their variation of Android and make it optimized instead of being such a pig and requiring such massive hardware. It shouldn't be hard to really make the interface and software fly on the dual 1 ghz TI OMAP4 chip the Fire has now. It clearly doesn't do that yet in my estimation, but it could while also getting cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo
You people laugh, but I can almost guarantee you that Wall Street is going to love the idea and more money will be pouring into Amazon. Money is money and whoring is good. Jeff Bezos is going to be called a genius and he'll make that many more friends where it counts. Those guys that control Wall Street all love Jeff Bezos and that's why Amazon's P/E is close to 190. Wall Street does not care about end user experience crap. It's not worth anything to them because they can't put a fixed value on something like that. They think it's great if consumers have to click through ads to get to where they want to go. It's what you call a captive audience and that begets ad revenue. The whole Android OS model is built for advertising. It's made for consumers who don't want to pay for anything.
Yes, except people will hate the product, the word will get out, and Amazon will not sell Kindles.
Haha, what do people expect? Cheap people who buy cheap, inferior products, looking to save buck, shouldn't be surprised by any ads. It's the same reason why iOS apps make a ton more money than Android apps. Some people are cheap, and they'd probably pimp out their own sister if that would save them $15 bucks on their next shitty Android phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Haha, what do people expect? Cheap people who buy cheap, inferior products, looking to save buck, shouldn't be surprised by any ads. It's the same reason why iOS apps make a ton more money than Android apps. Some people are cheap, and they'd probably pimp out their own sister if that would save them $15 bucks on their next shitty Android phone.
This is pretty much what happens anywhere. Ever see businesses cashing in unused coupons? Seen Extreme couponing? Ever see software that throws an ad on your computer screen and promises you the revenue? Airmiles/points loyalty programs? As long as there have been ways of getting "free" money by some inconvenience, there will be people who think it's a good idea. Those that do eventually cause it to become more inconvenient or not worth it to deal with the extra time wasted to get the discount.
This is the situation we're in now with the Kindle Fire, if they put ads on it, the inconvenience will put off some people, but there will still be buyers. Just the people who buy probably won't have money to actually buy the advertised product, so it's a bit silly for advertisers to assume they'll get any sales from advertising on the device. I must therefor believe that Amazon is only going to flog products they sell by targeting their own customers using their private information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
You expected something different from a POS device sold below his cost?
I read statements like this and wonder if you think before posting. Do you know they're sold below cost? You read it on Appleinsider. The user experience comments are pretty meaningless as they're not based on anything other than bland articles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Cool! Kindle can be used as a point-of-sale terminal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Of course, you doesn't know the Kindle always being a self service POS for Amazon?
That's like saying the iPhone, iPad and all Android devices are POS terminals for Amazon and myriad other vendors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Haha, what do people expect? Cheap people who buy cheap, inferior products, looking to save buck, shouldn't be surprised by any ads. It's the same reason why iOS apps make a ton more money than Android apps. Some people are cheap, and they'd probably pimp out their own sister if that would save them $15 bucks on their next shitty Android phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misa
This is pretty much what happens anywhere. Ever see businesses cashing in unused coupons? Seen Extreme couponing? Ever see software that throws an ad on your computer screen and promises you the revenue? Airmiles/points loyalty programs? As long as there have been ways of getting "free" money by some inconvenience, there will be people who think it's a good idea. Those that do eventually cause it to become more inconvenient or not worth it to deal with the extra time wasted to get the discount.
This is the situation we're in now with the Kindle Fire, if they put ads on it, the inconvenience will put off some people, but there will still be buyers. Just the people who buy probably won't have money to actually buy the advertised product, so it's a bit silly for advertisers to assume they'll get any sales from advertising on the device. I must therefor believe that Amazon is only going to flog products they sell by targeting their own customers using their private information.
It's a bit ironic, isn't it: the ads end up reaching precisely the people that the advertiser has the least interest in reaching, since the demographic that it truly wants is the one that will buy the non-ad-supported version of Fire.
Economists have a phrase for this: adverse selection.
That's to provide a replacement ad system for free apps. At least the OS is not likely to have ads built into it.
I wonder if advertising really does bring prices down like certain parties like to say. It's a tough thing to track when they're taking money from both the customer and the ad buyer.
It's actually kindling for the fire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercr
Since Apple owns a patent on Advertisements within the OS, I wonder if Amazon has licensed it...
Link to the patent
Short article on it
You are misinformed, as is the article author. This is a patent specific to how iAds work, not just any ad. And it is VERY old news. I laugh when the author asks if Apple is foolish enough to implement this, if he has used more than just a couple iPhone Apps that have ads he probably has seen one himself already, like two years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro
You are misinformed, as is the article author. This is a patent specific to how iAds work, not just any ad. And it is VERY old news. I laugh when the author asks if Apple is foolish enough to implement this, if he has used more than just a couple iPhone Apps that have ads he probably has seen one himself already, like two years ago.
Which author, the original article talking about Amazon's plans or the article I linked to regarding Apple's patent?
I respectfully say you missed the purpose of my linking to that article. Indeed it is old news... the article was from 2009, if you did not notice. But my point was not to support what the author says, it was to illustrate out that Apple has already patented use of Ads within the OPERATING SYSTEM. This may, as you say, be construed to include iAds today, but back when it was developed it was focused specifically around placing Ads within the operating system.
I was claiming that you can call this ad placement on the welcome screen part of the OS, since it's not an App and is not optional to view these ads.
Here's a better ( and more recent ) article on the subject from Macrumors.com
Amazon, by forcing the user to view the Ad before the system is activated ( or in the case mentioned in the original article as the system is turned off ) by the OS itself instead of within an application could be considered in violation of this patent.
Whether Amazon considered licensing this from Apple is something I wonder.
Oohhhh, that's brilliant!
Here's another riff on Amazon's genius idea: advertising cars! When you start the car, the radio plays a 30 second advertising spot, during which time the transmission is locked into "Park". Drivers can opt out of the advertising by paying a monthly fee of $19.95. Guaranteed windfall profits for the first automaker to implement this brilliant idea!
Really? Then please show us somewhere that Apple has ads in its OS or on the welcome screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
You expected something different from a POS device sold below his cost?
Cool! Kindle can be used as a point-of-sale terminal?
Apple constantly mentions how many credit cards they have on file and how people use them to purchase items through their iOS devices. How is that any different? Apple even mandates use of their store so they get their 30% cut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Cool! Kindle can be used as a point-of-sale terminal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Of course, you doesn't know the Kindle always being a self service POS for Amazon?
That's like saying the iPhone, iPad and all Android devices are POS terminals for Amazon and myriad other vendors.
No, all iOS devices are limited to being POS terminals only for Apple. No one else is allowed to link to their store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman
Apple constantly mentions how many credit cards they have on file and how people use them to purchase items through their iOS devices. How is that any different? Apple even mandates use of their store so they get their 30% cut.
No, all iOS devices are limited to being POS terminals only for Apple. No one else is allowed to link to their store.
Remind me to always clarify my wordplay jokes in the future…
One point you are absolutely right is wall street love bozo.
While I agree that investors have gone bonkers over Amazon, it's not quite as bad as it seems. While they are trading at 190 times earnings, they're only at 53 times free cash flow. Cash flow is substantially better than earnings for AMZN. I haven't explored it to find out why or whether that's a short term thing.
Personally, I can't see what the justification is for the rosy earnings. If you look at the price of put options, a significant number of people apparently agree with me, but the market as a whole thinks Amazon is worth the current share price.
well the barnes and noble tablet the nook was 250, and their were not any rumours that the nook was sold at a loss...
since the platform(amazon fire) is a copy of the blackberry playbook (and that was released at a price of 500) which was then reduced to 200 (fire sale! LOL) so amazon selling it at 200 is really at best a break even price.
it will be tough for Amazon to produce a 10 inch tablet for 299, because they will not be able use RIM's production line of the playbook, for the 10 inch tablet... thus the 10 incher will be 250 with a prime sub, and ads on the screen saver/home page... probably 329 with out the ads included on the screen saver.
but, dont despair, amazon is probably incompetent, so they will not be able to produce a totally-locked-down-10-inch-tablet.... so those with "cheap" in their blood will be able to get a tablet at 250, and become an angry bird (cheep, cheep, cheap, cheap) LOL. (because you will be angry for using a tablet that is so cheap!)
I can think of lots to crappy products and theirs ads I would love to wipe with.