Every time either Office or iWork is mentiomed the arguments about whether or not IWork is ready for prime time occur, and each time it boils down to whether or not one can or cannot do some feature an individual wants. As a full fledged hater of all things MS, I will say Office isn't that bad once you ditch the ribbons. A couple minor things make Word a better choice for my workflow right now, but Pages is great too. For the lightweight spreadsheet work I do I really enjoy Numbers', though inevitably end up using Excel since I'm doing all my other stuff in Office.
There's things I like and dislike about each really.
I think where MS has failed in office is in having the user be aware of what power they have. For example, there are still people that add inidividual cells cause they never heard of the sum function!. And to be fair, this applies to ALL suites.
This is something that if Siri can be adapted to, it would revolutionize productivity apps.
If I can say "compare my sales and returns column and every time my sales column is more, count it up and give me an average for the whole period", and then have the program put in the formula to do this, it would be AMAZING.
EDIT: Oh, by the way, this post counts as prior art if anyone tries to patent it, LOL
It isn't that MS Office does anything vey well (it doesn't), it is that habitual users use it slavishly and are not smart enough to adapt to different software.
99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.
Just as a lot of people have problems with hardware, software or gadgets in their homes/workplaces, all too often it is the user that is at fault. Sadly, there are a lot of really stupid/slow people out there.
MS Office is the floppy-disk of today: people _think_ they need it and that nothing else can replace it. They are wrong. Years from now, they'll look back and see MS Office for the irrelevant tripe that it really is.
It isn't that MS Office does anything vey well (it doesn't), it is that habitual users use it slavishly and are not smart enough to adapt to different software.
99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.
Just as a lot of people have problems with hardware, software or gadgets in their homes/workplaces, all too often it is the user that is at fault. Sadly, there are a lot of really stupid/slow people out there.
MS Office is the floppy-disk of today: people _think_ they need it and that nothing else can replace it. They are wrong. Years from now, they'll look back and see MS Office for the irrelevant tripe that it really is.
Uhhh, there isn't another spreadsheet application with the depth of functions and features that excel has.
Now....how many of the people that use excel need those advanced commands? about 1%
But heres the thing. every new version of software has to add things to justify people buying it again. So sooner or later, every spreadsheet application will be chuck full of commands nobody uses or even know about. its just the way things are.
And by the way, just what about Office do you not like? Its not like it crashes a lot, actually for me it never has, and we darn well know that it has more features than anything else out there.
What were you trying to do that Office couldn't accomplish and got you so angry at it?
99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.
I wouldn't say that. It's certainly more laziness than a lack of intelligence.
Why will you want that when you can use google docs for FREE. and your files work across all platforms. iOS, android, windows, linux, mac. Its in the cloud with the option to save locally and real time collab.
To get me to buy office software it better come with free strippers cause google docs just everything the typical user would want
That may be - but it's the things that Google Docs does that the user DIDN'T ask for that are the problem.
I'm not giving Google access to any more of my life than necessary. And business documents? No way in he77.
It isn't that MS Office does anything vey well (it doesn't), it is that habitual users use it slavishly and are not smart enough to adapt to different software.
99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.
Just as a lot of people have problems with hardware, software or gadgets in their homes/workplaces, all too often it is the user that is at fault. Sadly, there are a lot of really stupid/slow people out there.
MS Office is the floppy-disk of today: people _think_ they need it and that nothing else can replace it. They are wrong. Years from now, they'll look back and see MS Office for the irrelevant tripe that it really is.
1,000% agree.
Pages does everything any word processor needs to do but does it with just a few buttons and menu options.
It works differently so you have to learn some new stuff at first (most are unwilling to do this), and it doesn't directly read and write Word documents so you have to decide to use it *instead* of Word (too scary for most users), and there will always be some dumbass over-the-top detail of a feature that is only used by one user out of a thousand that Pages won't have (users who think they need these won't give them up).
It all comes down to the users and their unwillingness to change, to contemplate change, or to be brave enough to try anything new. It really has nothing to do with the relative merits of the tools. Most users just don't assess things in a rational manner like that anyway, they just tell themselves a story that explains why they "can't" use Pages.
That's exactly why Office is here to stay. We also tried alternatives (both iWork and OpenOffice). While they were ok 95% of the time, the remaining 5% was a nightmare. "Close" isn't good enough for many people.
"Close" only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades... and dancing
I am surprised that MS hasn't moved sooner to release Office apps on the iPad -- we're on the third iteration...
I suspect they could have an iOS edition similar/compatible to their Mac Office edition -- and a more robust/integrated version for Windows 8 RT ARM (whatever) to match the Windows Office.
That way, they can cover all the bases... if Windows tablets fail to [quickly] catch on (and they will) MS would still have an offering for the iPad market!
But, again, Apple makes their software to help sell their hardware. The reason that they make iTunes for Windows is to make the iPod/iPhone/iPad useable for Windows users. iCloud is the same. So, we shouldn't hold our breath waiting for the i apps to appear for Windows.
That and restricting the iPod to their software and their computers would have gotten them slammed with antitrust charges
That iPad screen really looks like it was Photoshopped. I see JPEG artifacting well beyond the borders of the text, and the JPEG compression degradation in that area does not match the rest of the photo.
-- and a more robust/integrated version for Windows 8 RT ARM (whatever) to match the Windows Office.
That way, they can cover all the bases... if Windows tablets fail to [quickly] catch on (and they will) MS would still have an offering for the iPad market!
I think you just nailed why this rumor is likely false. They will keep the software as a selling point for tablets using Metro or whatever, hoping all that businesses love Office will get them to buy said hardware and not iPads, Tabs etc
I wish Apple would provide one feature that is essential to me that only MS has. Using IE web browser, you can right click on a table in a web page and export it directly to Excel which is an absolutely huge feature if you use a lot of tabular data that has to be sorted and manipulated. It is next to impossible to do using Safari and Numbers by copying and pasting.
Select the table you want by clicking and dragging the curser.
Then try using "Paste Special" in Excel, and then paste as Unicode text. That works for me. I think you just have to do things a bit differently than if you are using IE. Also, you didn't mention which version of IE you were using. Version 6 is over the hill, and I don't know how different the current version is, but I know it is less quirky than the old V6, and more like the rest of the world's browsers.
I hope that works for you as well as it does for me. I've never tried using Numbers to drop in a table of data, but my hint above may get the job down for you.
Try to keep Word from pushing pictures to the next page when adding text
Try to align numbers and text in column in Excel
Try to keep Excel from removing leading zero in zip codes
Try to copy Access files across the network while the file is less than a few minutes old. Access Denied
Try to keep straight quotes in inches and feet, not curly quotes
Try to type fractions in an email without using actual fraction symbols
Try to search an email folder with more than 1000 emails
I'm sure there are workarounds but Office is a nuisance to work with
I think for many of us, Office is thought of as Word, Excel, and PowerPoint as alternates to iWork. So, I won't address anything you wrote regarding Outlook and email.
Word will push pictures with text because the picture is locked to its position within the text, not locked to a position within the page.
To align number and text in Excel, click on the top of the column and select which justification you want for that column.
To keep zip codes, as well as all other kinds of data looking right, go to the menu, FORMAT > Cells > Numbers and tell Excel what kind of number will be in which columns, rows, or cells.
To have straight quotation marks in Word documents: Go to Word > Preferences > Auto Correct > Auto correct as you type > uncheck “Replace straight quotation marks with smart quotation marks”. Excel is default straight quotation marks.
As some have complained here, Word is a very bloated word processor. It is also highly customizable to a specific person's kind of use. When I buy a new version of Word, I have to customize my toolbars and menus to my liking. I often learn a few new features in the process.
There is actually a way to add up feet and inches (or yards and inches) in Excel, but it does take some thinking to set up the spread sheet.
Agreed! One step further is that I would love to see Apple release their API for Windows so code for Mac and iOS could run on Windows natively. Not going to happen, but it would sure be easier than writing for different platforms.
Also, they should give out their hardware for free. Oo
I think for many of us, Office is thought of as Word, Excel, and PowerPoint as alternates to iWork. So, I won't address anything you wrote regarding Outlook and email.
Word will push pictures with text because the picture is locked to its position within the text, not locked to a position within the page.
To align number and text in Excel, click on the top of the column and select which justification you want for that column.
To keep zip codes, as well as all other kinds of data looking right, go to the menu, FORMAT > Cells > Numbers and tell Excel what kind of number will be in which columns, rows, or cells.
To have straight quotation marks in Word documents: Go to Word > Preferences > Auto Correct > Auto correct as you type > uncheck “Replace straight quotation marks with smart quotation marks”. Excel is default straight quotation marks.
As some have complained here, Word is a very bloated word processor. It is also highly customizable to a specific person's kind of use. When I buy a new version of Word, I have to customize my toolbars and menus to my liking. I often learn a few new features in the process.
There is actually a way to add up feet and inches (or yards and inches) in Excel, but it does take some thinking to set up the spread sheet.
Thanks for saving me the time to reply.
But just the fact that it seems so basic to us and not to this guy is the problem with excel, and all office suites in general. A siri like approach is needed. Where i can just put in data and tell the computer what i want to do with it, and have it done.
Comments
There's things I like and dislike about each really.
I think where MS has failed in office is in having the user be aware of what power they have. For example, there are still people that add inidividual cells cause they never heard of the sum function!. And to be fair, this applies to ALL suites.
This is something that if Siri can be adapted to, it would revolutionize productivity apps.
If I can say "compare my sales and returns column and every time my sales column is more, count it up and give me an average for the whole period", and then have the program put in the formula to do this, it would be AMAZING.
EDIT: Oh, by the way, this post counts as prior art if anyone tries to patent it, LOL
It isn't that MS Office does anything vey well (it doesn't), it is that habitual users use it slavishly and are not smart enough to adapt to different software.
99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.
Just as a lot of people have problems with hardware, software or gadgets in their homes/workplaces, all too often it is the user that is at fault. Sadly, there are a lot of really stupid/slow people out there.
MS Office is the floppy-disk of today: people _think_ they need it and that nothing else can replace it. They are wrong. Years from now, they'll look back and see MS Office for the irrelevant tripe that it really is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHiavelli92
It isn't that MS Office does anything vey well (it doesn't), it is that habitual users use it slavishly and are not smart enough to adapt to different software.
99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.
Just as a lot of people have problems with hardware, software or gadgets in their homes/workplaces, all too often it is the user that is at fault. Sadly, there are a lot of really stupid/slow people out there.
MS Office is the floppy-disk of today: people _think_ they need it and that nothing else can replace it. They are wrong. Years from now, they'll look back and see MS Office for the irrelevant tripe that it really is.
Uhhh, there isn't another spreadsheet application with the depth of functions and features that excel has.
Now....how many of the people that use excel need those advanced commands? about 1%
But heres the thing. every new version of software has to add things to justify people buying it again. So sooner or later, every spreadsheet application will be chuck full of commands nobody uses or even know about. its just the way things are.
And by the way, just what about Office do you not like? Its not like it crashes a lot, actually for me it never has, and we darn well know that it has more features than anything else out there.
What were you trying to do that Office couldn't accomplish and got you so angry at it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHiavelli92
99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.
I wouldn't say that. It's certainly more laziness than a lack of intelligence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
What were you trying to do that Office couldn't accomplish and got you so angry at it?
Try to edit the HTML source in Outlook
Try to keep Word from pushing pictures to the next page when adding text
Try to align numbers and text in column in Excel
Try to keep Excel from removing leading zero in zip codes
Try to copy Access files across the network while the file is less than a few minutes old. Access Denied
Try to keep straight quotes in inches and feet, not curly quotes
Try to type fractions in an email without using actual fraction symbols
Try to search an email folder with more than 1000 emails
I'm sure there are workarounds but Office is a nuisance to work with
That may be - but it's the things that Google Docs does that the user DIDN'T ask for that are the problem.
I'm not giving Google access to any more of my life than necessary. And business documents? No way in he77.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHiavelli92
It isn't that MS Office does anything vey well (it doesn't), it is that habitual users use it slavishly and are not smart enough to adapt to different software.
99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.
Just as a lot of people have problems with hardware, software or gadgets in their homes/workplaces, all too often it is the user that is at fault. Sadly, there are a lot of really stupid/slow people out there.
MS Office is the floppy-disk of today: people _think_ they need it and that nothing else can replace it. They are wrong. Years from now, they'll look back and see MS Office for the irrelevant tripe that it really is.
1,000% agree.
Pages does everything any word processor needs to do but does it with just a few buttons and menu options.
It works differently so you have to learn some new stuff at first (most are unwilling to do this), and it doesn't directly read and write Word documents so you have to decide to use it *instead* of Word (too scary for most users), and there will always be some dumbass over-the-top detail of a feature that is only used by one user out of a thousand that Pages won't have (users who think they need these won't give them up).
It all comes down to the users and their unwillingness to change, to contemplate change, or to be brave enough to try anything new. It really has nothing to do with the relative merits of the tools. Most users just don't assess things in a rational manner like that anyway, they just tell themselves a story that explains why they "can't" use Pages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
That's exactly why Office is here to stay. We also tried alternatives (both iWork and OpenOffice). While they were ok 95% of the time, the remaining 5% was a nightmare. "Close" isn't good enough for many people.
"Close" only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades... and dancing
I am surprised that MS hasn't moved sooner to release Office apps on the iPad -- we're on the third iteration...
I suspect they could have an iOS edition similar/compatible to their Mac Office edition -- and a more robust/integrated version for Windows 8 RT ARM (whatever) to match the Windows Office.
That way, they can cover all the bases... if Windows tablets fail to [quickly] catch on (and they will) MS would still have an offering for the iPad market!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Maybe I'd like the contents of my documents to not be whored out for more "accurate" advertisements.
Mmmm... got me thinking'...
If Google is a pimp (and they are) -- who are the Johns and the Hos?
That and restricting the iPod to their software and their computers would have gotten them slammed with antitrust charges
That iPad screen really looks like it was Photoshopped. I see JPEG artifacting well beyond the borders of the text, and the JPEG compression degradation in that area does not match the rest of the photo.
The iOS version has been since iCloud started.
And given that we are talking about an iOS version of Office . . .
I think you just nailed why this rumor is likely false. They will keep the software as a selling point for tablets using Metro or whatever, hoping all that businesses love Office will get them to buy said hardware and not iPads, Tabs etc
If they make it for iOS they will be shooting their own tablets in the foot before they even launch. Or maybe they know they will bomb anyway......
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I wish Apple would provide one feature that is essential to me that only MS has. Using IE web browser, you can right click on a table in a web page and export it directly to Excel which is an absolutely huge feature if you use a lot of tabular data that has to be sorted and manipulated. It is next to impossible to do using Safari and Numbers by copying and pasting.
Select the table you want by clicking and dragging the curser.
Then try using "Paste Special" in Excel, and then paste as Unicode text. That works for me. I think you just have to do things a bit differently than if you are using IE. Also, you didn't mention which version of IE you were using. Version 6 is over the hill, and I don't know how different the current version is, but I know it is less quirky than the old V6, and more like the rest of the world's browsers.
I hope that works for you as well as it does for me. I've never tried using Numbers to drop in a table of data, but my hint above may get the job down for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Try to edit the HTML source in Outlook
Try to keep Word from pushing pictures to the next page when adding text
Try to align numbers and text in column in Excel
Try to keep Excel from removing leading zero in zip codes
Try to copy Access files across the network while the file is less than a few minutes old. Access Denied
Try to keep straight quotes in inches and feet, not curly quotes
Try to type fractions in an email without using actual fraction symbols
Try to search an email folder with more than 1000 emails
I'm sure there are workarounds but Office is a nuisance to work with
I think for many of us, Office is thought of as Word, Excel, and PowerPoint as alternates to iWork. So, I won't address anything you wrote regarding Outlook and email.
Word will push pictures with text because the picture is locked to its position within the text, not locked to a position within the page.
To align number and text in Excel, click on the top of the column and select which justification you want for that column.
To keep zip codes, as well as all other kinds of data looking right, go to the menu, FORMAT > Cells > Numbers and tell Excel what kind of number will be in which columns, rows, or cells.
To have straight quotation marks in Word documents: Go to Word > Preferences > Auto Correct > Auto correct as you type > uncheck “Replace straight quotation marks with smart quotation marks”. Excel is default straight quotation marks.
As some have complained here, Word is a very bloated word processor. It is also highly customizable to a specific person's kind of use. When I buy a new version of Word, I have to customize my toolbars and menus to my liking. I often learn a few new features in the process.
There is actually a way to add up feet and inches (or yards and inches) in Excel, but it does take some thinking to set up the spread sheet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quevar
Agreed! One step further is that I would love to see Apple release their API for Windows so code for Mac and iOS could run on Windows natively. Not going to happen, but it would sure be easier than writing for different platforms.
Also, they should give out their hardware for free. Oo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
I think for many of us, Office is thought of as Word, Excel, and PowerPoint as alternates to iWork. So, I won't address anything you wrote regarding Outlook and email.
Word will push pictures with text because the picture is locked to its position within the text, not locked to a position within the page.
To align number and text in Excel, click on the top of the column and select which justification you want for that column.
To keep zip codes, as well as all other kinds of data looking right, go to the menu, FORMAT > Cells > Numbers and tell Excel what kind of number will be in which columns, rows, or cells.
To have straight quotation marks in Word documents: Go to Word > Preferences > Auto Correct > Auto correct as you type > uncheck “Replace straight quotation marks with smart quotation marks”. Excel is default straight quotation marks.
As some have complained here, Word is a very bloated word processor. It is also highly customizable to a specific person's kind of use. When I buy a new version of Word, I have to customize my toolbars and menus to my liking. I often learn a few new features in the process.
There is actually a way to add up feet and inches (or yards and inches) in Excel, but it does take some thinking to set up the spread sheet.
Thanks for saving me the time to reply.
But just the fact that it seems so basic to us and not to this guy is the problem with excel, and all office suites in general. A siri like approach is needed. Where i can just put in data and tell the computer what i want to do with it, and have it done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
iWork…
Not a fan..especially when I have to use a PC at work.