Oh.. regarding graphic cards @ NAB i was a little stunned by this news by Cubix, regular Quadro 6000 supported in Mac OS.
Quote:
Yes, Cubix ran DaVinci Resolve 8.2 under OSX and used two Quadro 6000 cards, with readily available stock drivers (nothing "grey market" used at all). Seemed to create a buzz with alot of people interested in beefing up higher resolution Resolve, Adobe CS6, Assimilate Scratch, Autodesk Maya / Smoke, and several other industry applications.
Also in the same post, from the land of Woz
Quote:
Fusion-io's ioFX - PCIe-based caching drive which has OSX drivers, in addition to Windows 7 and Linux. I have to imagine there's alot of Adobe, Autodesk, DaVinci and Assimilate users who would immediately benefit from caching files on the 80Gbps PCIe bus instead of through the SATA controller.
Facebook user on mac pro group claims tim cook replied with pretty much 'later next year"
Translation, maybe they are going to wait for ivy server chip? who knows.
Seems unlikely that the CEO who just spoke about doubling down on secrecy would reply via his iPad assuring someone about an upcoming product release next year after just putting new CPUs in the current Pro.
This is all we're going to get for the next year now.
By 2013, they will have Haswell CPUs in the MBP and until then, the MBP would replace any 8-core 2008 MP and under.
$2,199 Retina MBP (6.1 Cinebench) + $3,799 12-core Mac Pro (12.7 Cinebench) = $5998 (18.8 Cinebench) = $320/unit
Sandy Bridge Xeon MP:
$6,200 12-core E5 (21 Cinebench) = $295/unit
Performance per dollar is better with the Sandy Bridge Xeon but not by much, especially if you only go for the Mac Pro. Buy a Retina MBP along with the 12-core Pro, stick the MP on a network in a closet and control it from anywhere in the world.
Now all the chipsets which support xeon E5 doesn't support USB 3.0 and TB, even not support pcie 3.0
The cxx chipset although support pcie 3.0, but it is for entry level workstations.
Apple MAY want to make BIG UPDATE when REAL CHIPSET which support tb, usb 3, and pcie3.0.
While that may be what Intel has listed, Supermicro, along with a few other companies, have released PCI-e 3 x16/USB 3 DP Xeon motherboards, for the E5-2600 series, that use the c602 and c606 chipsets:
As such, aside from the lack of a newish GPU with Thunderbolt and EFI support, there's no engineering reason, from what I can tell, that would have prevented Apple from debuting a Mac Pro today with some recently-released AMD or NVIDIA GPU and a pair of E5-2640s (12 cores/24 threads @ 2.0/2.5 GHz) through E5-2690s (16 cores/32 threads @ 2.9/3.8 GHz) or even four E54650s (32 cores/64 threads @ 2.7/3.3 GHz).
Very interesting. These are different than what we are reading here across the pond. These are fairly large increases even if only in CPU functions. At least we can still get a RAID card through the store.
This will offset some of the Thunderbolt and 3.0 USB non inclusion.
I'm open to other ideas here!!! What this is telling me though is that Apple couldn't take the time to put any desktop machine on equal footing at WWDC.
Well looking at the link provided above regarding Intel motherboards and the E5 it appears that USB 3 and Thunderbolt are not supported. So the E5 chip we all wanted couldn't have provided those interfaces. It seems Apple decided to avoid half measures. It was full-on everything or just a bump. That is me guessing.
I also think we have an unfortunate circumstance here. Lou Borella started his Facebook group at precisely the wrong moment (unbeknownst to him) and we got all excited about something that wasn't going to happen thanks to Intel. It was a perfect storm of bad juju.
Now it's like we all got a nasty paper cut and someone rubbed some lemon juice on it.
EDIT: Okay so docmordin says there are ways to use USB3 with the E5. However that is with Supermicro boards. Doesn't apple us only Intel boards and designs?
[B]This update is a joke. A very, very bad one for sure ! Actually it is a joke not worth telling anyone. It's the kind of joke that makes you, the teller of the joke, look like a total fool. I don't even want to think about this joke. This must be a mistake, a bad dream !
With 100 billion in the bank, there is still some kind of universal law that says; thou shalt not show off in the Pro-market when the margins are lower than on an iPhone ?[/B]
Performance per dollar is better with the Sandy Bridge Xeon but not by much, especially if you only go for the Mac Pro. Buy a Retina MBP along with the 12-core Pro, stick the MP on a network in a closet and control it from anywhere in the world.
For essentially the same price, dual E5-2690 (16 cores, 2.9 GHz) systems yield Cinebench score of 24.7. That's $251/unit.
Xeon E5 supports quad channel ECC memory--customers can install 1/3 more memory and still get top performance.
Another nail in the 'Pro' coffin. In fact, I can hear a fat lady humming a few bars.
It started with Xserve, then FCP, then the 17" MBP.
As I've said before, Apple needs to split into two companies or divisions. One specializing in consumer products (first order goods), and the other specializing in professional products (higher order goods). The pro users are getting absolutely shafted
They had the perfect opportunity to drop it off the store along with the 17"MBP. They didn't. Instead they gave it a trivial (or less than trivial) speed bump for those who don't need Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 and whatever else Ivy Bridge will bring. Sandy Bridge still has a problem with Thunderbolt and video:
"The complicating issue is that Thunderbolt not only carries high-speed PCIe data, but must also carry DisplayPort video as well. On all other Macs, GPUs—whether integrated or discrete—are fixed. This makes it easy to pipe the DisplayPort output to the Thunderbolt port, which serves as both a high-speed interconnect as well as the connection for an external monitor. The Mac Pro, on the other hand, has removable PCIe-based graphics cards. How will Apple get the output of these cards into the Thunderbolt controller? The most likely solution is a Mini DisplayPort passthrough cable. ASUS is using an external DisplayPort cable to add Thunderbolt to its latest motherboard designs, but that seems decidedly "un-Apple-like." There may be a more elegant solution in the works, such as directing the card's output over the PCIe bus directly to the Thunderbolt controller, but according to our sources, no current graphics cards work that way. Given that reality, we think Apple will use an internal cable combined with GPUs featuring an internal mini-DP connector."
I looked at Apple's current lineup this morning before the site came down. here is what the Mac Pros were selling for then:
Mac Pro
1) 2.8 quad Nehalem 3GB 1TB HD5770 1GB 2499
2) 2.4x2 quad Westmere 6GB 1TB HD5770 1GB 3499
3) 2.66x2 6-core Westmere 6GB 1TB HD5770 1GB 4999
Server) 2.8 quad Nehalem 8GB 1TBx2 5770 1GB 2999
Here is the new lineup:
1) 3.2 quad 6GB 1TB HD5770 1GB $2499
2) 2x 2.4 6-core 12GB 1TB HD5770 1GB $3799
Server) 3.2 quad 8GB 1TBx2 HD57770 1GB $2999
So we have:
1) Faster processor, double RAM, same price.
2/3) Speed of 2, core count of 3, Double RAM, 8 core jumped to 12 core, $300 more expensive than 2, $1200 cheaper than 3
Server) Faster processor, same price
E5645 Westmere
W3565 Bloomfield
So we got rid of the Nehalem based low end processor and kept processors from the Westmere and Bloomfield lines.
So, in lieu of brand new processors and some apparently unavailable technology we are getting a much cheaper path to some fairly high powered stuff. If Logic can use 12 cores then the $3700 price seems pretty reasonable. I was among the chorus crying foul when I first saw the specs but knowing that the path to high power comes at a lower cost is as much of a boon as the latest CPU, since i couldn't afford the 12 core before.
Comments
Oh.. regarding graphic cards @ NAB i was a little stunned by this news by Cubix, regular Quadro 6000 supported in Mac OS.
Quote:
Yes, Cubix ran DaVinci Resolve 8.2 under OSX and used two Quadro 6000 cards, with readily available stock drivers (nothing "grey market" used at all). Seemed to create a buzz with alot of people interested in beefing up higher resolution Resolve, Adobe CS6, Assimilate Scratch, Autodesk Maya / Smoke, and several other industry applications.
Also in the same post, from the land of Woz
Quote:
Fusion-io's ioFX - PCIe-based caching drive which has OSX drivers, in addition to Windows 7 and Linux. I have to imagine there's alot of Adobe, Autodesk, DaVinci and Assimilate users who would immediately benefit from caching files on the 80Gbps PCIe bus instead of through the SATA controller.
the full blog at Cubix
Seems unlikely that the CEO who just spoke about doubling down on secrecy would reply via his iPad assuring someone about an upcoming product release next year after just putting new CPUs in the current Pro.
This is all we're going to get for the next year now.
By 2013, they will have Haswell CPUs in the MBP and until then, the MBP would replace any 8-core 2008 MP and under.
$2,199 Retina MBP (6.1 Cinebench) + $3,799 12-core Mac Pro (12.7 Cinebench) = $5998 (18.8 Cinebench) = $320/unit
Sandy Bridge Xeon MP:
$6,200 12-core E5 (21 Cinebench) = $295/unit
Performance per dollar is better with the Sandy Bridge Xeon but not by much, especially if you only go for the Mac Pro. Buy a Retina MBP along with the 12-core Pro, stick the MP on a network in a closet and control it from anywhere in the world.
Good luck with Winde'rs "Romper Room" 8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wozwoz
I find the Apple Mac Pro Performance Specs to be highly misleading.
Instead of comparing the old 12 core performance against the new 12 core performance, they are now actually comparing:
** the old 8 core performance against the new 12 core performance ... and reporting a 30% gain ....
I suspect that a large chunk of that 30% is just the 8 to 12 core difference on their rather biased parallel-rich gravy tests ...
But since you could buy a 12 core before, this seems totally contrived. They are reporting nothingness.
Come on Apple ... Show us: 12 core before vs 12 core now .... What's the speed difference? Eh?
This 'wall' in performance could be the reason Apple is dumping professionals and going after the consumer market
How do you market new hardware with no discernible speed increase of any meaning?.
A lot of software doesn't even take advantage of all the cores - so where does that leave us?
With no matte iMac's on the horizon and the 'end of life' Pro gasping for air... how many studio's are going to stay with the platform?
If we are forced to switch - doesn't matter how pretty the laptops are, we aren't going to support 2 platforms.
This runs contrary to the 'halo effect' Apple was courting for a long time - or it was only meant to apply to the consumer market.
Not giving 'industry' any clear road-map is a pretty big indication that Apple wants out of the game imho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio995
Everyone, check intel website:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/server-chipsets/server-chipset-c600.html
Now all the chipsets which support xeon E5 doesn't support USB 3.0 and TB, even not support pcie 3.0
The cxx chipset although support pcie 3.0, but it is for entry level workstations.
Apple MAY want to make BIG UPDATE when REAL CHIPSET which support tb, usb 3, and pcie3.0.
While that may be what Intel has listed, Supermicro, along with a few other companies, have released PCI-e 3 x16/USB 3 DP Xeon motherboards, for the E5-2600 series, that use the c602 and c606 chipsets:
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DA7.cfm
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DR3-F.cfm
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DRi-F.cfm
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DR3-LN4F_.cfm
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DRi-LN4F_.cfm
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DR7-LN4F.cfm
Furthermore, the MP Xeon motherboards, for the E5-4600 series, using the c602 chipset provide up to four PCI-e 3 x16 connections:
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9QR7-TF_.cfm
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9QRi-F_.cfm
As such, aside from the lack of a newish GPU with Thunderbolt and EFI support, there's no engineering reason, from what I can tell, that would have prevented Apple from debuting a Mac Pro today with some recently-released AMD or NVIDIA GPU and a pair of E5-2640s (12 cores/24 threads @ 2.0/2.5 GHz) through E5-2690s (16 cores/32 threads @ 2.9/3.8 GHz) or even four E54650s (32 cores/64 threads @ 2.7/3.3 GHz).
I had $6,000 ready to go towards a great Mac Pro today.
Looks like I'll be buying a refurb 12 core when those hit the Store for cheap.
Very interesting. These are different than what we are reading here across the pond. These are fairly large increases even if only in CPU functions. At least we can still get a RAID card through the store.
This will offset some of the Thunderbolt and 3.0 USB non inclusion.
Thanks for the info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I'm open to other ideas here!!! What this is telling me though is that Apple couldn't take the time to put any desktop machine on equal footing at WWDC.
Well looking at the link provided above regarding Intel motherboards and the E5 it appears that USB 3 and Thunderbolt are not supported. So the E5 chip we all wanted couldn't have provided those interfaces. It seems Apple decided to avoid half measures. It was full-on everything or just a bump. That is me guessing.
I also think we have an unfortunate circumstance here. Lou Borella started his Facebook group at precisely the wrong moment (unbeknownst to him) and we got all excited about something that wasn't going to happen thanks to Intel. It was a perfect storm of bad juju.
Now it's like we all got a nasty paper cut and someone rubbed some lemon juice on it.
EDIT: Okay so docmordin says there are ways to use USB3 with the E5. However that is with Supermicro boards. Doesn't apple us only Intel boards and designs?
I looked at Apple's current lineup this morning before the site came down. here is what the Mac Pros were selling for then:
Mac Pro
1) 2.8 quad Nehalem 3GB 1TB HD5770 1GB 2499
2) 2.4x2 quad Westmere 6GB 1TB HD5770 1GB 3499
3) 2.66x2 6-core Westmere 6GB 1TB HD5770 1GB 4999
Server) 2.8 quad Nehalem 8GB 1TBx2 5770 1GB 2999
Here is the new lineup:
1) 3.2 quad 6GB 1TB HD5770 1GB $2499
2) 2x 2.4 6-core 12GB 1TB HD5770 1GB $3799
Server) 3.2 quad 8GB 1TBx2 HD57770 1GB $2999
So we have:
1) Faster processor, double RAM, same price.
2/3) Speed of 2, core count of 3, Double RAM, 8 core jumped to 12 core, $300 more expensive than 2, $1200 cheaper than 3
Server) Faster processor, same price
E5645 Westmere
W3565 Bloomfield
So we got rid of the Nehalem based low end processor and kept processors from the Westmere and Bloomfield lines.
This article is wrong, it's the same old Mac Pro with slight bumps and price adjustments, it's not a Sandy Bridge Xeon.
With 100 billion in the bank, there is still some kind of universal law that says; thou shalt not show off in the Pro-market when the margins are lower than on an iPhone ?[/B]
Eh... Did you ever notice that RAM from Apple has always been at least double the price of other retailers ?
Cute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Sandy Bridge Xeon MP:
$6,200 12-core E5 (21 Cinebench) = $295/unit
Performance per dollar is better with the Sandy Bridge Xeon but not by much, especially if you only go for the Mac Pro. Buy a Retina MBP along with the 12-core Pro, stick the MP on a network in a closet and control it from anywhere in the world.
For essentially the same price, dual E5-2690 (16 cores, 2.9 GHz) systems yield Cinebench score of 24.7. That's $251/unit.
Xeon E5 supports quad channel ECC memory--customers can install 1/3 more memory and still get top performance.
Another nail in the 'Pro' coffin. In fact, I can hear a fat lady humming a few bars.
It started with Xserve, then FCP, then the 17" MBP.
As I've said before, Apple needs to split into two companies or divisions. One specializing in consumer products (first order goods), and the other specializing in professional products (higher order goods). The pro users are getting absolutely shafted
What this trivial update means is that there will definitely be a Mac Pro with an Ivy Bridge workstation chip when such a processor is released.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen
What this trivial update means is that there will definitely be a Mac Pro with an Ivy Bridge workstation chip when such a processor is released.
I like your optimism, but by the time that happens, will anyone even care anymore?
They had the perfect opportunity to drop it off the store along with the 17"MBP. They didn't. Instead they gave it a trivial (or less than trivial) speed bump for those who don't need Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 and whatever else Ivy Bridge will bring. Sandy Bridge still has a problem with Thunderbolt and video:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06/what-should-the-long-awaited-mac-pro-update-look-like/2/
"The complicating issue is that Thunderbolt not only carries high-speed PCIe data, but must also carry DisplayPort video as well. On all other Macs, GPUs—whether integrated or discrete—are fixed. This makes it easy to pipe the DisplayPort output to the Thunderbolt port, which serves as both a high-speed interconnect as well as the connection for an external monitor. The Mac Pro, on the other hand, has removable PCIe-based graphics cards. How will Apple get the output of these cards into the Thunderbolt controller? The most likely solution is a Mini DisplayPort passthrough cable. ASUS is using an external DisplayPort cable to add Thunderbolt to its latest motherboard designs, but that seems decidedly "un-Apple-like." There may be a more elegant solution in the works, such as directing the card's output over the PCIe bus directly to the Thunderbolt controller, but according to our sources, no current graphics cards work that way. Given that reality, we think Apple will use an internal cable combined with GPUs featuring an internal mini-DP connector."
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel
I looked at Apple's current lineup this morning before the site came down. here is what the Mac Pros were selling for then:
Mac Pro
1) 2.8 quad Nehalem 3GB 1TB HD5770 1GB 2499
2) 2.4x2 quad Westmere 6GB 1TB HD5770 1GB 3499
3) 2.66x2 6-core Westmere 6GB 1TB HD5770 1GB 4999
Server) 2.8 quad Nehalem 8GB 1TBx2 5770 1GB 2999
Here is the new lineup:
1) 3.2 quad 6GB 1TB HD5770 1GB $2499
2) 2x 2.4 6-core 12GB 1TB HD5770 1GB $3799
Server) 3.2 quad 8GB 1TBx2 HD57770 1GB $2999
So we have:
1) Faster processor, double RAM, same price.
2/3) Speed of 2, core count of 3, Double RAM, 8 core jumped to 12 core, $300 more expensive than 2, $1200 cheaper than 3
Server) Faster processor, same price
E5645 Westmere
W3565 Bloomfield
So we got rid of the Nehalem based low end processor and kept processors from the Westmere and Bloomfield lines.
So, in lieu of brand new processors and some apparently unavailable technology we are getting a much cheaper path to some fairly high powered stuff. If Logic can use 12 cores then the $3700 price seems pretty reasonable. I was among the chorus crying foul when I first saw the specs but knowing that the path to high power comes at a lower cost is as much of a boon as the latest CPU, since i couldn't afford the 12 core before.
Final Cut Pro 10.0.5 update is more impressive:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/final-cut-pro/id424389933?mt=12&ign-mpt=uo=4
What's New in Version 10.0.5
This update improves overall stability and is enhanced for the MacBook Pro with Retina display.
Included in versions 10.0.3 and 10.0.4
• Multicam editing with automatic sync and support for mixed formats, mixed frame rates, and up to 64 camera angles
• Broadcast monitoring with third-party PCIe and Thunderbolt I/O devices
• Advanced chroma keying with controls for color sampling and edge quality
• Media relink for manual reconnect of projects and Events to new media
• Ability to import and edit layered Photoshop graphics
• XML 1.1 with support for primary color grades, effect parameters, and audio keyframes
Quote:
Originally Posted by friedmud
Story is WRONG.
This is NOT Xeon E5.... E5645 is still the old Nehalem architecture!
E5's are like this: E5-4650
All that happened here was a minor speed bump....
So disappointed!
Not to mention the Graphics card... :S