Can Apple have both the 13 Air and 13 Retina in the product line?
When the power consumption of retina displays decreases to a level approaching conventional displays, the two product lines might be merged into one. Apple might maintain the two product lines, though, if power consumption of higher-performance microprocessors requires, but this distinction may go away in about the same time frame as retina display power consumption declines.
Anybody know about the power consumption and resolution specs of IGZO displays?
<vc><strong>Apple will bring a high-resolution Retina display to its 13-inch MacBook Pro with a product update set to launch this October, according to one insider.</strong>
Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI shared in a note with <em>AppleInsider</em> on Thursday that he expects Apple to ramp up production of a 13-inch next-generation MacBook Pro with Retina display in September.
Even though I think this rumor has a reasonable expectation of becoming reality, I really think its a stretch to call Kuo an "insider". He's analyst, and I don't know from this article whether Kuo is reported what he heard from another source, repeating an unattributed rumor, or simply spinning a rumor of his own. How is his opinion a more informed one than say, mine?
Apple will bring a high-resolution Retina display to its 13-inch MacBook Pro with a product update set to launch this October, according to one insider.
Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI shared in a note with AppleInsider on Thursday that he expects Apple to ramp up production of a 13-inch next-generation MacBook Pro with Retina display in September. That would allow the product to hit stores in early October, in time for the holiday shopping season.
Kuo was the first to indicate that Apple would retire its 17-inch MacBook Pro, and that the 15-inch next-generation MacBook Pro with Retina display would be sold alongside the previous-generation MacBook Pro with lower-resolution display and thicker design. Both of those details proved true this week at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference.
Apple has the "highest hopes" for the new 13-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display, according to Kuo. But Apple was likely unable to unveil the new product at WWDC this week because of a low yield rate and greater assembly difficulty, he said.
Like the next-generation Retina display MacBook Pro, the 13-inch variety is expected to lack an optical disc drive and rely solely on solid-state flash memory storage. Kuo expects the screen to have a resolution of 2,560 by 1,600 pixels, and he said the 13-inch model will be slightly thinner than the 15-inch model, at 18 millimeters.
The next-generation 13-inch MacBook Pro is not expected to have discrete graphics like its 15-inch counterpart, but will instead rely on Intel HD 4000 integrated graphics. Kuo also expects it to have an Intel Ivy Bridge processor with a clock speed greater than 2 gigahertz.
As for the just-released 15-inch Retina display MacBook Pro, Kuo said that Apple should have about 300,000 units of the next-generation notebook available to sell this month, a number that he called a "moderate" amount.
Who is Kuo? Did he take over for Phil Schiller or Tim Cook? I don't know if I would EXPECT him to have knowledge of what Apple is doing anymore than myself, because if someone at Apple has told him and he is under NDA, then he violated NDA. Now, if Kuo isn't under NDA, and people at Apple told him, why would they tell HIM other than everyone else? This "EXPECTATION" doesn't make sense to me UNLESS APPLE has made that specific announcement. Is KUO 100% accurate 100% of the time with his predictions on product launches? Where are they getting these specific specifications from? Are you sure they can have a fast enough screen redraw with just the 4000 and no NVIDEA chip? I don't know if they can do that and I don't know if they have enough room. Come on.
Looking at the current pricing scheme, I can guess that the 13" MBPR will start at $1,599
Here are the patterns:
13" MBP starts at $1199
15" MBP starts at $1799
15" MBPR starts at $2199
Price difference between the 13" and 15" = $600
Price difference between the 15" MBP and MBPR = $400
Production costs for larger displays increase faster than size. Proportionately, the 13.3" retina display should add about $350 to the cost, but because the 15.4" retina is disproportionately more expensive, the 13.3" retina display might cost only $300 more. If 13.3" retinas can be produced from 15.4" rejects, the cost might be even less. That would put the starting price for a 13.3" MBPR at $1499 (or possibly less).
Production costs for larger displays increase faster than size. Proportionately, the 13.3" retina display should add about $350 to the cost, but because the 15.4" retina is disproportionately more expensive, the 13.3" retina display might cost only $300 more. If 13.3" retinas can be produced from 15.4" rejects, the cost might be even less. That would put the starting price for a 13.3" MBPR at $1499 (or possibly less).
I wouldn't hold my breath on that. Apple is KNOWN to hyper-inflate things. For example: It costs Apple a few extra dollars to use 32GB instead of 16GB. Yet, they charge a whopping $100 extra. It costs them a few extra dollars for increased RAM capacity. They charge a whopping $100 for 4 extra GB of RAM.
So if it costs Apple $10 more, expect to pay $200 more.
This is going to get interesting. Clearly, Apple will do away with the old-style 13 MBP at some point. But, what about the 13 Air? Can Apple have both the 13 Air and 13 Retina in the product line? I think the 13 Air will be gone before the old-style 13. In this case, I am guessing Schiller will follow the same specs and pricing strategy for the 13 Retinas as the 13 Airs. So, two models with same processors as the old-style 13 MBPs, no discrete graphics. Lower model with 4GB onboard RAM and 128GB SSD at $1,199. Upper model with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD (option for 512GB) at $1,499.
Apples-to-apples, the Retina 13 will be cheaper than the old-style 13. Just as it is with the 15 MBPs. They will sell a ton of these at Christmas.
You would be guessing wrong. The Air uses Intel ULV chips which only have 17W TDP. The chips being used in the MBP are 35W and 45W chips. It will break down like this. For the next year we will have the old style MBPs that still have the optical drives in them. Later this year, the 13" Retina MBP and (maybe) a 17" Retina MBP are released. Next year when Haswell comes out, the old MBPs w/the ODD in them are toast and all the MBPs are on the Retina line.
13" and 15" MBA w/Haswell ULV chips, integrated graphics, lower capacity SSD and 4-8GB RAM.
13", 15" (and maybe 17") MBP Retina w/Haswell mobile processors, high speed discrete graphics, high capacity (up to 1TB) SSD and 16-32GB RAM.
I do agree the Retina MBPs will sell like hotcakes. I'm curious to see how the new iMacs and Mini's shape up. The new Mini will get a nice kick in the pants from the Ivy Bridge integrated graphics. I have the mid-grade 2011 model w/the boosted ggraphics already, so I won't be replacing. Something to consider tho. I don't expect this year's iMac to get Retina, yields must be very low so early in the process. Haswell update tho? Maybe. I could see Retina as a BTO option on both size top end models at that point.
I don't. I'm just saying that if doesn't have a discrete GPU I still wont consider the 13" MBPR. Which won't upset Apple much since it means an upsell to the 15" MBP as intended. Well, maybe. If I can't get a discrete GPU anyway I might as well get a MBA.
If not this fall, you’ll probably get a dGPU on next year 13". Haswell CPU will embed all the voltage regulation logic, and the chipset should feature a Thunderbolt controller, both of which are currently handled by external circuitry. This extra freed space should be enough to fit a dGPU in the already crammed PCB.
FIrst off, if Appleinsider hasn't checked with Apple for a validation on this, I would NOT have released this article. It has too many specifics without being validated BY APPLE. What's Kuo's track record?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz
Integrated graphics = worthless.
Have you used the machine and made this observation from experience?
Wonder how much the 13" would weigh in at....?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz
Integrated graphics = worthless.
You mean Intel integrated graphics = worthless. The graphics in AMD's APUs are not crappy at all. Not as good as discrete, but not bad at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
How do you know it won't have one?
Have they ever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen
Can Apple have both the 13 Air and 13 Retina in the product line?
When the power consumption of retina displays decreases to a level approaching conventional displays, the two product lines might be merged into one. Apple might maintain the two product lines, though, if power consumption of higher-performance microprocessors requires, but this distinction may go away in about the same time frame as retina display power consumption declines.
Anybody know about the power consumption and resolution specs of IGZO displays?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeromeus
I'm not sure I'd want to spend an extra $400 for slight speed increase and a better screen. What are your thoughts?
delay the purchase for a few months and save up.
Even though I think this rumor has a reasonable expectation of becoming reality, I really think its a stretch to call Kuo an "insider". He's analyst, and I don't know from this article whether Kuo is reported what he heard from another source, repeating an unattributed rumor, or simply spinning a rumor of his own. How is his opinion a more informed one than say, mine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Apple will bring a high-resolution Retina display to its 13-inch MacBook Pro with a product update set to launch this October, according to one insider.
Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI shared in a note with AppleInsider on Thursday that he expects Apple to ramp up production of a 13-inch next-generation MacBook Pro with Retina display in September. That would allow the product to hit stores in early October, in time for the holiday shopping season.
Kuo was the first to indicate that Apple would retire its 17-inch MacBook Pro, and that the 15-inch next-generation MacBook Pro with Retina display would be sold alongside the previous-generation MacBook Pro with lower-resolution display and thicker design. Both of those details proved true this week at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference.
Apple has the "highest hopes" for the new 13-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display, according to Kuo. But Apple was likely unable to unveil the new product at WWDC this week because of a low yield rate and greater assembly difficulty, he said.
Like the next-generation Retina display MacBook Pro, the 13-inch variety is expected to lack an optical disc drive and rely solely on solid-state flash memory storage. Kuo expects the screen to have a resolution of 2,560 by 1,600 pixels, and he said the 13-inch model will be slightly thinner than the 15-inch model, at 18 millimeters.
The next-generation 13-inch MacBook Pro is not expected to have discrete graphics like its 15-inch counterpart, but will instead rely on Intel HD 4000 integrated graphics. Kuo also expects it to have an Intel Ivy Bridge processor with a clock speed greater than 2 gigahertz.
As for the just-released 15-inch Retina display MacBook Pro, Kuo said that Apple should have about 300,000 units of the next-generation notebook available to sell this month, a number that he called a "moderate" amount.
Who is Kuo? Did he take over for Phil Schiller or Tim Cook? I don't know if I would EXPECT him to have knowledge of what Apple is doing anymore than myself, because if someone at Apple has told him and he is under NDA, then he violated NDA. Now, if Kuo isn't under NDA, and people at Apple told him, why would they tell HIM other than everyone else? This "EXPECTATION" doesn't make sense to me UNLESS APPLE has made that specific announcement. Is KUO 100% accurate 100% of the time with his predictions on product launches? Where are they getting these specific specifications from? Are you sure they can have a fast enough screen redraw with just the 4000 and no NVIDEA chip? I don't know if they can do that and I don't know if they have enough room. Come on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeromeus
Looking at the current pricing scheme, I can guess that the 13" MBPR will start at $1,599
Here are the patterns:
13" MBP starts at $1199
15" MBP starts at $1799
15" MBPR starts at $2199
Price difference between the 13" and 15" = $600
Price difference between the 15" MBP and MBPR = $400
Production costs for larger displays increase faster than size. Proportionately, the 13.3" retina display should add about $350 to the cost, but because the 15.4" retina is disproportionately more expensive, the 13.3" retina display might cost only $300 more. If 13.3" retinas can be produced from 15.4" rejects, the cost might be even less. That would put the starting price for a 13.3" MBPR at $1499 (or possibly less).
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz
Integrated graphics = worthless.
Clearly you need to be educated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro
Production costs for larger displays increase faster than size. Proportionately, the 13.3" retina display should add about $350 to the cost, but because the 15.4" retina is disproportionately more expensive, the 13.3" retina display might cost only $300 more. If 13.3" retinas can be produced from 15.4" rejects, the cost might be even less. That would put the starting price for a 13.3" MBPR at $1499 (or possibly less).
I wouldn't hold my breath on that. Apple is KNOWN to hyper-inflate things. For example: It costs Apple a few extra dollars to use 32GB instead of 16GB. Yet, they charge a whopping $100 extra. It costs them a few extra dollars for increased RAM capacity. They charge a whopping $100 for 4 extra GB of RAM.
So if it costs Apple $10 more, expect to pay $200 more.
Of course not. He's just one of the trolls who frequents this forum and never passes up an opportunity to spew FUD.
I was moments away from buying a 13" Air because they didn't redesign the 13" MBP. Now, I wait another couple months.
It would make sense to me to release a 13" Pro BEFORE school starts in the fall but... that obviously isn't the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen
This is going to get interesting. Clearly, Apple will do away with the old-style 13 MBP at some point. But, what about the 13 Air? Can Apple have both the 13 Air and 13 Retina in the product line? I think the 13 Air will be gone before the old-style 13. In this case, I am guessing Schiller will follow the same specs and pricing strategy for the 13 Retinas as the 13 Airs. So, two models with same processors as the old-style 13 MBPs, no discrete graphics. Lower model with 4GB onboard RAM and 128GB SSD at $1,199. Upper model with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD (option for 512GB) at $1,499.
Apples-to-apples, the Retina 13 will be cheaper than the old-style 13. Just as it is with the 15 MBPs. They will sell a ton of these at Christmas.
You would be guessing wrong. The Air uses Intel ULV chips which only have 17W TDP. The chips being used in the MBP are 35W and 45W chips. It will break down like this. For the next year we will have the old style MBPs that still have the optical drives in them. Later this year, the 13" Retina MBP and (maybe) a 17" Retina MBP are released. Next year when Haswell comes out, the old MBPs w/the ODD in them are toast and all the MBPs are on the Retina line.
13" and 15" MBA w/Haswell ULV chips, integrated graphics, lower capacity SSD and 4-8GB RAM.
13", 15" (and maybe 17") MBP Retina w/Haswell mobile processors, high speed discrete graphics, high capacity (up to 1TB) SSD and 16-32GB RAM.
I do agree the Retina MBPs will sell like hotcakes. I'm curious to see how the new iMacs and Mini's shape up. The new Mini will get a nice kick in the pants from the Ivy Bridge integrated graphics. I have the mid-grade 2011 model w/the boosted ggraphics already, so I won't be replacing. Something to consider tho. I don't expect this year's iMac to get Retina, yields must be very low so early in the process. Haswell update tho? Maybe. I could see Retina as a BTO option on both size top end models at that point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
How do you know it won't have one?
I don't. I'm just saying that if doesn't have a discrete GPU I still wont consider the 13" MBPR. Which won't upset Apple much since it means an upsell to the 15" MBP as intended. Well, maybe. If I can't get a discrete GPU anyway I might as well get a MBA.
Is there an integrated GPU that is powerful enough to drive a 2560X1600 screen?
FIrst off, if Appleinsider hasn't checked with Apple for a validation on this, I would NOT have released this article. It has too many specifics without being validated BY APPLE. What's Kuo's track record?