Tim Cook is the one responsible for shutting down Apple's own manufacturing operations. Apple might have had to do it do it to stay competitive, but that is another matter all together.
That's a pretty naive statement. If Apple had no choice but to do it, why attack Tim Cook?
Further, one of the main reasons Apple did away with its own factories is for accounting purposes. If Apple owns the factories it has to claim unsold inventory at the factory in its books that negatively affects its earning. Since Apple doesn't own the factories, it doesn't have to do this.
Sorry, but no one has ever established that. In fact, Tim Cook has specifically stated otherwise - he stated that Apple's manufacturing strategy is based on flexibility and fast response times.
...lower birthrates, call for population control and more could occur from it...
Oh no, what a horrible idea. I say we double down and shoot for 14 billion.
On a more serious note, the single most undeniable and direct correlation to lowered birth rates is political, educational and economic empowerment of women.
On a more serious note, the single most undeniable and direct correlation to lowered birth rates is political, educational and economic empowerment of women.
Link(s)?
From what I've seen it appears that as areas (nations, regions, etc.) begin to prosper economically and become less dependent upon sustenance farming and wealth begins to accumulate birth rates begin to drop.
Some background on Robotic Manufacturing to come, which will hurt human job rates. no joke, its reality.
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
A reality that won't be the case for about 50 years, minimum. I'd love extra robot assembly to happen, but it won't be happening for a good long while.
Robotic manufacturing is here already. Circuit boards have been stuffed with components and soldered robotically for at least 10 years. CNCing the aluminum bodies of the ipad/mac etc is also essentially a robotic process. Currently only the final assembly is done by humans. With design changes even this can be done robotically.
Is it going to hurt human job rates? No doubt it is, but I for one accept this as inevitable so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. The age of machines is nigh!!
Robotic manufacturing is here already. Circuit boards have been stuffed with components and soldered robotically for at least 10 years. CNCing the aluminum bodies of the ipad/mac etc is also essentially a robotic process. Currently only the final assembly is done by humans. With design changes even this can be done robotically.
Is it going to hurt human job rates? No doubt it is, but I for one accept this as inevitable so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. The age of machines is nigh!!
Right, but this isn't really anything new at all (nor is the hand-wringing over it). Greater capital investment (tools and machinery) and greater productivity that comes from it is the pathway to greater prosperity.
On a more serious note, the single most undeniable and direct correlation to lowered birth rates is political, educational and economic empowerment of women.
Some background on Robotic Manufacturing to come, which will hurt human job rates. no joke, its reality. Even articles on Apple moving towards it. So if you think it is science fiction, it's reality. and yes bombastic, but it did get your attention. The human toll on the move towards robotic manufacturing will lead to ethical crisis in many places. It isn't far fetched to think some more suicides, lower birthrates, call for population control and more could occur from it. Just hoping for some intelligent debate, but ill leave this my last post in this topic as some think this is trolling.
Thanks for the links, I really hope Apple do this. To be able to get an iMac for half the current price (for example) would just be amazing.
I don't believe they will be able to go fully automated just yet, but that's not what's necessary anyway. All they need is to go 10% automated, then 15% the next year, 20% the next... it will be great. Because of course they will approach it from both sides: as the robots get better, Jonny Ive will also be designing things that are easier for a robot to build, with fewer small parts etc.
Yes, because when SJ was around the Mac Pro was definitely the focus of the company, right? You don't have a shred of evidence that it wouldnt be the exact same scenario today with anyone else in charge. If it was SJ you would be bashing him as well. What a pathetic troll. As for your last line, most sane, objective, normal people without an axe to grind against Apple found last week's announcements extremely exciting and impressive.
In support of Slurpy...
Please consider that a new product takes months (if not years) of planning. Cutting a product takes a short time but if there's no replacement in the pipeline, the decision to cut must be taken well in advance of the actual cut. It is likely that it was SJ's plan to cut both MacBook Pro 17" and Mac Pro. The fact that there is even talk now of a Mac Pro being released some time next year, I'm guessing, indicates that TC is reversing a SJ direction.
TC's first real decision at Apple is likely to (already) have been the reinstatement of a next gen. Mac Pro.
Of course, the lack of proper support from Intel in the availability of next gen. multi-processor X-bridge CPUs also plays into this but, IMHO, if there were a redesigned Mac Pro already in the pipeline awaiting CPUs from Intel, we would have seen a "Sandy Bridge" placeholder offering now and not the non-event "upgrade" that we got.
Aside and slightly off topic...
I'm sad that a new MBP 17" is not going to be available. I'm hoping that a new 15" MBP plus two chained Thunderbolt displays may make up for the lost screen real-estate (I'm on a 17" MBP + 30" external ATM). I see a lot of professionals very concerned that SJ's no compromise "get it working and get it out the door" attitude may slide and Apple may return to the old (pre SJ) "if we just wait another cycle, we could have a better XXX" may return. Waiting for Intel's Ivy Bridge to become available for a new Mac Pro may be a symptom of this feared syndrome, or it might just be that TC had a lot of reinstating/shuffling to do to get an new Mac Pro into the pipeline.
Tim Cook was responsible for Apple shutting down most American manufacturing by Apple. His expertise in offshoring manufacturing is responsible for Foxconn grabbing the lions share of Apple's manufacturing work. Suicides and a massive amount of job losses at areas prior made in western nations.
Apple's "cracking down" on supply chain management is hardly a novel idea, cut down the amount of ordering to keep inventories under check. ie order what you think you are really going to make computers, ipads, iphones, etc.
If they had done this sooner, would Apple have included a better camera in the NEW IPAD (ipad 3)??? they used they same camera's as the iphone 4, not even iphone 4S. yes they used 1 1/2 year old parts. Which is a major slight to consumers hoping for quality and up to date tech.
I know Tim Cook is a decent guy, but remember his history is really a background in Worldwide Corporate Materials... ie he moved manufacturing to China. So... its important to know who is really leading Apple at this point. Simply put.... his priority was making things cheap and keeping them cheap. at all costs, which has included factories in china which are very questionable at best and some believe are modern equivilent of slave camps.
I suspect his point might have been that humanity is clearly much worse off because of all these great, relatively inexpensive products Apple has provided us and that thousands of Chinese people are now gainfully employed making them for us instead of toiling away in near poverty in fields just to live.
If people think that manufacturing in China blindly is good it is sad. There are countless extra disadvantages to doing so. From macro economic to decisions made on human rights, moving manufacturing to China has lowered costs, but at the same time it has hurt the western world economy, working class and more.
Sorry, i love the products, but i do believe that the US and Canada would be better off if a proportional amount of products were manufactured and assembled here instead of China. Diversity is great, why not hope for a better future?
The home of Tiananmen square, tibet and countless other tragedies is hardly somewhere i love getting products from.
I suspect his point might have been that humanity is clearly much worse off because of all these great, relatively inexpensive products Apple has provided us and that thousands of Chinese people are now gainfully employed making them for us instead of toiling away in near poverty in fields just to live.
Things should work out fine for a few more years. When we start to see fist fights in the Chinese Parliament like Japan and Korea, that is when we will know the Chinese people have become part of the civilized world, but by then manufacturers will have long since moved to greener pastures in some other impoverished third world region.
If people think that manufacturing in China blindly is good it is sad.
I don't think anyone is doing it blindly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
There are countless extra disadvantages to doing so. From macro economic to decisions made on human rights, moving manufacturing to China has lowered costs, but at the same time it has hurt the western world economy, working class and more.
And there are many advantages. Not the least of which is that hundreds of thousands or millions of Chinese people are being pulled out of poverty by being given the opportunity to work on these products. There is no evidence whatsoever that this has "hurt the western world economy"...you're just making that up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
Sorry, i love the products, but i do believe that the US and Canada would be better off if a proportional amount of products were manufactured and assembled here instead of China. Diversity is great, why not hope for a better future?
You can believe that if you want. It doesn't make it so.
If people don't think that manufacturing by robots will harm humanity in some ways, it is sad. yes it can bring down price... but at a huge human cost.
Based solely on your unassailable opinions, I think we should all remove our wooden shoes and throw them at the robots so as to prevent technological progress...hey...it worked so well for the Dutch in the 15th century!
Sorry, i love the products, but i do believe that the US and Canada would be better off if a proportional amount of products were manufactured and assembled here instead of China. Diversity is great, why not hope for a better future?
And the United Kingdom would be better off if a proportional amount of products were manufactured and assembled here instead of China. As would Germany, Russia, India, Ireland, France, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand... But why do something that is incredibly more expensive and less flexible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321
We bought a brand new iMac a few months ago, and it had a HAND PRINT on the glass! Underneath the plastic that you remove from the glass! We never contacted Apple about it, but it's good to see that Apple is cracking down on huge quality control oversights like this.
You should have taken it to the Apple Store, they would have replaced it for you.
We bought a brand new iMac a few months ago, and it had a HAND PRINT on the glass! Underneath the plastic that you remove from the glass! We never contacted Apple about it, but it's good to see that Apple is cracking down on huge quality control oversights like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGJ
You should have taken it to the Apple Store, they would have replaced it for you.
I think he meant on the outside of the glass. It just looks tacky as you are opening your new machine but Windex should fix it. I have what I think you were implying, a hand print on the inside of the glass of my high end kitchen microwave door. You can only see it when the tea kettle steams up the glass. Very aggravating though. If he had the hand print on the inside of the glass he would have to replace it. You couldn't look at that all day, it would drive you crazy.
Comments
That's a pretty naive statement. If Apple had no choice but to do it, why attack Tim Cook?
Sorry, but no one has ever established that. In fact, Tim Cook has specifically stated otherwise - he stated that Apple's manufacturing strategy is based on flexibility and fast response times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
...lower birthrates, call for population control and more could occur from it...
Oh no, what a horrible idea. I say we double down and shoot for 14 billion.
On a more serious note, the single most undeniable and direct correlation to lowered birth rates is political, educational and economic empowerment of women.
Tim got upset after he got some sub-standard french fries at the Foxconn cafeteria.
Oh joy! We have some neo-Luddites among us here.
:-/
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
On a more serious note, the single most undeniable and direct correlation to lowered birth rates is political, educational and economic empowerment of women.
Link(s)?
From what I've seen it appears that as areas (nations, regions, etc.) begin to prosper economically and become less dependent upon sustenance farming and wealth begins to accumulate birth rates begin to drop.
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
Some background on Robotic Manufacturing to come, which will hurt human job rates. no joke, its reality.
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
A reality that won't be the case for about 50 years, minimum. I'd love extra robot assembly to happen, but it won't be happening for a good long while.
Robotic manufacturing is here already. Circuit boards have been stuffed with components and soldered robotically for at least 10 years. CNCing the aluminum bodies of the ipad/mac etc is also essentially a robotic process. Currently only the final assembly is done by humans. With design changes even this can be done robotically.
Is it going to hurt human job rates? No doubt it is, but I for one accept this as inevitable so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. The age of machines is nigh!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal
Robotic manufacturing is here already. Circuit boards have been stuffed with components and soldered robotically for at least 10 years. CNCing the aluminum bodies of the ipad/mac etc is also essentially a robotic process. Currently only the final assembly is done by humans. With design changes even this can be done robotically.
Is it going to hurt human job rates? No doubt it is, but I for one accept this as inevitable so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. The age of machines is nigh!!
Right, but this isn't really anything new at all (nor is the hand-wringing over it). Greater capital investment (tools and machinery) and greater productivity that comes from it is the pathway to greater prosperity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
On a more serious note, the single most undeniable and direct correlation to lowered birth rates is political, educational and economic empowerment of women.
Then I'd say we need a lot more of that.
Thanks for the links, I really hope Apple do this. To be able to get an iMac for half the current price (for example) would just be amazing.
I don't believe they will be able to go fully automated just yet, but that's not what's necessary anyway. All they need is to go 10% automated, then 15% the next year, 20% the next... it will be great. Because of course they will approach it from both sides: as the robots get better, Jonny Ive will also be designing things that are easier for a robot to build, with fewer small parts etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Yes, because when SJ was around the Mac Pro was definitely the focus of the company, right? You don't have a shred of evidence that it wouldnt be the exact same scenario today with anyone else in charge. If it was SJ you would be bashing him as well. What a pathetic troll. As for your last line, most sane, objective, normal people without an axe to grind against Apple found last week's announcements extremely exciting and impressive.
In support of Slurpy...
Please consider that a new product takes months (if not years) of planning. Cutting a product takes a short time but if there's no replacement in the pipeline, the decision to cut must be taken well in advance of the actual cut. It is likely that it was SJ's plan to cut both MacBook Pro 17" and Mac Pro. The fact that there is even talk now of a Mac Pro being released some time next year, I'm guessing, indicates that TC is reversing a SJ direction.
TC's first real decision at Apple is likely to (already) have been the reinstatement of a next gen. Mac Pro.
Of course, the lack of proper support from Intel in the availability of next gen. multi-processor X-bridge CPUs also plays into this but, IMHO, if there were a redesigned Mac Pro already in the pipeline awaiting CPUs from Intel, we would have seen a "Sandy Bridge" placeholder offering now and not the non-event "upgrade" that we got.
Aside and slightly off topic...
I'm sad that a new MBP 17" is not going to be available. I'm hoping that a new 15" MBP plus two chained Thunderbolt displays may make up for the lost screen real-estate (I'm on a 17" MBP + 30" external ATM). I see a lot of professionals very concerned that SJ's no compromise "get it working and get it out the door" attitude may slide and Apple may return to the old (pre SJ) "if we just wait another cycle, we could have a better XXX" may return. Waiting for Intel's Ivy Bridge to become available for a new Mac Pro may be a symptom of this feared syndrome, or it might just be that TC had a lot of reinstating/shuffling to do to get an new Mac Pro into the pipeline.
Either way GL TC... we're rooting for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
Tim Cook was responsible for Apple shutting down most American manufacturing by Apple. His expertise in offshoring manufacturing is responsible for Foxconn grabbing the lions share of Apple's manufacturing work. Suicides and a massive amount of job losses at areas prior made in western nations.
Apple's "cracking down" on supply chain management is hardly a novel idea, cut down the amount of ordering to keep inventories under check. ie order what you think you are really going to make computers, ipads, iphones, etc.
If they had done this sooner, would Apple have included a better camera in the NEW IPAD (ipad 3)??? they used they same camera's as the iphone 4, not even iphone 4S. yes they used 1 1/2 year old parts. Which is a major slight to consumers hoping for quality and up to date tech.
I know Tim Cook is a decent guy, but remember his history is really a background in Worldwide Corporate Materials... ie he moved manufacturing to China. So... its important to know who is really leading Apple at this point. Simply put.... his priority was making things cheap and keeping them cheap. at all costs, which has included factories in china which are very questionable at best and some believe are modern equivilent of slave camps.
Smartest thing Apple ever did.
What was your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Smartest thing Apple ever did.
What was your point?
I suspect his point might have been that humanity is clearly much worse off because of all these great, relatively inexpensive products Apple has provided us and that thousands of Chinese people are now gainfully employed making them for us instead of toiling away in near poverty in fields just to live.
If people think that manufacturing in China blindly is good it is sad. There are countless extra disadvantages to doing so. From macro economic to decisions made on human rights, moving manufacturing to China has lowered costs, but at the same time it has hurt the western world economy, working class and more.
Sorry, i love the products, but i do believe that the US and Canada would be better off if a proportional amount of products were manufactured and assembled here instead of China. Diversity is great, why not hope for a better future?
The home of Tiananmen square, tibet and countless other tragedies is hardly somewhere i love getting products from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970
I suspect his point might have been that humanity is clearly much worse off because of all these great, relatively inexpensive products Apple has provided us and that thousands of Chinese people are now gainfully employed making them for us instead of toiling away in near poverty in fields just to live.
Things should work out fine for a few more years. When we start to see fist fights in the Chinese Parliament like Japan and Korea, that is when we will know the Chinese people have become part of the civilized world, but by then manufacturers will have long since moved to greener pastures in some other impoverished third world region.
Then stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
If people think that manufacturing in China blindly is good it is sad.
I don't think anyone is doing it blindly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
There are countless extra disadvantages to doing so. From macro economic to decisions made on human rights, moving manufacturing to China has lowered costs, but at the same time it has hurt the western world economy, working class and more.
And there are many advantages. Not the least of which is that hundreds of thousands or millions of Chinese people are being pulled out of poverty by being given the opportunity to work on these products. There is no evidence whatsoever that this has "hurt the western world economy"...you're just making that up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
Sorry, i love the products, but i do believe that the US and Canada would be better off if a proportional amount of products were manufactured and assembled here instead of China. Diversity is great, why not hope for a better future?
You can believe that if you want. It doesn't make it so.
Quote:
If people don't think that manufacturing by robots will harm humanity in some ways, it is sad. yes it can bring down price... but at a huge human cost.
Based solely on your unassailable opinions, I think we should all remove our wooden shoes and throw them at the robots so as to prevent technological progress...hey...it worked so well for the Dutch in the 15th century!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970
There is no evidence whatsoever that this has "hurt the western world economy"...you're just making that up.
"The West" is a big place.
"The Economy" is a multi-faceted concept.
The gains of cheap consumer goods may outweigh the disadvantages. I would wager that it does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
Sorry, i love the products, but i do believe that the US and Canada would be better off if a proportional amount of products were manufactured and assembled here instead of China. Diversity is great, why not hope for a better future?
And the United Kingdom would be better off if a proportional amount of products were manufactured and assembled here instead of China. As would Germany, Russia, India, Ireland, France, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand... But why do something that is incredibly more expensive and less flexible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321
We bought a brand new iMac a few months ago, and it had a HAND PRINT on the glass! Underneath the plastic that you remove from the glass! We never contacted Apple about it, but it's good to see that Apple is cracking down on huge quality control oversights like this.
You should have taken it to the Apple Store, they would have replaced it for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321
We bought a brand new iMac a few months ago, and it had a HAND PRINT on the glass! Underneath the plastic that you remove from the glass! We never contacted Apple about it, but it's good to see that Apple is cracking down on huge quality control oversights like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGJ
You should have taken it to the Apple Store, they would have replaced it for you.
I think he meant on the outside of the glass. It just looks tacky as you are opening your new machine but Windex should fix it. I have what I think you were implying, a hand print on the inside of the glass of my high end kitchen microwave door. You can only see it when the tea kettle steams up the glass. Very aggravating though. If he had the hand print on the inside of the glass he would have to replace it. You couldn't look at that all day, it would drive you crazy.