This whole Surface thing just seems a little bit strange to me. Ignoring the fact that the presentation was an almost word-for-word ripoff of the one Jobs gave a few years ago, it all seemed a little bit desperate. The Surface certainly didn't appear like a product that had been developed in secrecy for years; it was more like a spec-list cribbed from Apple rumours ('look it has a LIQUID METAL back', 'look the screen is just as good as Retina'). And if this thing had been in development for so long then why is it crashing on it's first demo? Why didn't they show it running any apps? Why were they reluctant to let anyone play with it? Why haven't the specs and the prices been nailed down yet?
I don't think this is a long-term hidden project. I think this is something that only came into being a few months ago. And I don't think Microsoft cares if they make money from it. This is Microsoft telling its lazy OEMs that this is the device they want them to build, and if they don't...
I have to LMAO at all the M$ fanboys on engadget, cnet, etc. now dissing all these PC OEM's as crap when before this vaporware announcement they were drooling over all these ultrabooks and how they were so much better than MacBook Air, and how the Transformer Prime and PadFone run circles around iPad. Now these same clowns are saying M$ has to build a product to show all the OEM's how to do it properly.
There is a good write-up on Apple 2.0 about why people think the effort is real.
I think the effort is very real. Microsoft has seen what has happened with Apple and their vertical integration especially with iOS and they have had seen what has happened with Android and some of the crappy hardware that is out there. Android is being blamed for the poor experience at times when it's the OEM tinkering and horrid hardware. I think that Microsoft really believes that they can do better than the OEMs with an integrated device.
Now whether that is true remains to be seen. I won't call this a failure off the year one cause hey the original iPad wasn't that sexy looking either. And it was missing cameras etc. Perhaps Microsoft will pull this off enough to make it worth creating a version 2.0 that will be better. I don't think they will take the tablet market with either but they might put a dent in the netbook world with their Pro model and they might at least bring a few more folks into the notion of tablet form computing. I heard someone say that only perhaps 50% of the potential audience for any tablet device has actually bought in which is why things like the Fire could sell a few million and not put a dent in the rate of iPad sales. i.e. the rate of the market share held went down because the total market came up. These tablets could do the same. I know I have family members that think my iPad look really cool but they are die hard Windows users and they simply will not work with anything Mac. they would buy a Windows tablet if the price was right. And they would buy into the notion that hardware made together with the software simply has to be better than the alternative.
It kind of amuses me that the very best that Microsoft's internal development team can do for a new UI is a bunch of colored boxes with text in it. I am not sure why on earth anyone would think that a giant colored box is good UI but I am personally shocked at the stark laziness of the UI.
I maintain that when the developers got the instructions to create Metro the very first order was that it couldn't look anything like iOS in any way cause they didn't want to deal with any lawsuits.
There's no reason Siri couldn't be on the iPad 2 or the new iPad today (or the iPhone 4 for that matter) but instead Apple only makes the full release (remember the iOS 5 version is still a beta) available on certain hardware and only in the next iOS release.
Actually Siri can't be on the iPad 2, at least not effectively, because it lacks the appropriate microphone hardware which was put into the iPad 3 for dictation. Siri is still in beta so it actually makes sense not to knowingly over tax the system by adding a few million more users.
And I believe that the real point of the previous comment was that Siri hasn't been in any tablets and there was no mention that it would be added later when the iPad 3 came out and yet they all sold in the millions without it. So to say that novelty features like Siri are how Apple is selling their tablets is false.
Oh, and maybe if you had bothered to read my post on Siri you would know I know exactly how it works and how Apple could actually make it better.
I have read that post and I saw nothing that shows that you KNOW EXACTLY anything about how Siri works or that you actually know how to improve it. instead you know that it is server based and you think it sucks. And what you wish it did and didn't do whether those opinions are universal or even feasible.
Yeah, because under Jobs this never happened, right? I can think of like 20 situations off the top of my head where it did, most more eggregious than Siri. Stop trying to twist reality to fit your narrative that the boat is sinking because Jobs is gone. Jobs was alive for 4 generations of iPhones, and there was a TON of people bitching during that time about features artificially limited to newer devices. This didn't start after his death, but I'm sure you knew that. There's not a shred of evidence to suggest Siri would be on the iPad 2 or iPhone 4 if Jobs was alive. An objective, reasonable person would realize that Apple's decision making, philosophy, attitude, and obsession with detail and excellence has remained remarkably consistent.
If you keep adding the latest and greatest features to older devices #1 does it ruin the performance of the device and you're stuck with users b*itching about the experience or calling customer service with complaints? And #2 how do you continue to sell new devices if current devices get all the features/functionality of new devices?
My favorite part of that video is when it cuts from Jobs in his arm chair, cursing Safari to what's his name trying to do the same and his demo crashes. That moment sums it all up for me.
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Originally Posted by Rogifan
If you keep adding the latest and greatest features to older devices #1 does it ruin the performance of the device and you're stuck with users b*itching about the experience or calling customer service with complaints?
Sometimes yes, which is why Apple doesn't do it. Take Siri on the iPad. The 1st and 2nd generations don't have the added microphones and noise canceling of the 3rd Gen so using Siri would be a disaster unless you have an extremely clear voice and are in an area with zero noise. And how often is that true. Not to mention dumping that many users into a system that is already suffering server overload just makes that problem worse and diminishes the experience for everyone. Which Apple isn't going to do, it's not their style. Same with putting things like those 3d Flyover maps on phones and iPads with slower processes that will then freeze, crash etc.
You're missing the entire point. The keyboard doesn't mean that it can only be used with the keyboard. What they're offering is a tablet that will try to compete with all the other tablets, but with an additional feature - the keyboard. So you can use it just like any other tablet (in the car, on the beach, in your lap), but when you want to do extensive typing, you add the keyboard and put it on a table.
Sorry but you are the one that missed the point. It wasn't about whether the keyboard is required etc. It was that the lion's share of this presentation was about the accessories and things like the kickstand and that it was made with magnesium and not actually demoing the OS etc. They super brushed over that as if they were scared to try to show too much, particularly after the web browsing demo failed.
And how much faith can you have in a product that wasn't really demo's. Compared to say the iPad presentation where they even went so far as to let 3 different 3rd party companies come up and live demo their new stuff and how awesome it works on the new hardware. Talk about the nifty bonus bits of the hardware and accessories was like 5 minutes tops out of the whole thing, not 60 of the 90 minutes which is what the Microsoft presentation felt like. Hell look at the video they did. It's all rocks and keyboard and kickstand etc. Compare that to the designer video which is all 'we did this so you get that' talk. And the ads which are all about what the users can do and get. Microsoft focused on features and not every useful ones while Apple focuses on the benefits because that's what consumers care about.
Sorry but you are the one that missed the point. It wasn't about whether the keyboard is required etc. It was that the lion's share of this presentation was about the accessories and things like the kickstand and that it was made with magnesium and not actually demoing the OS etc. They super brushed over that as if they were scared to try to show too much, particularly after the web browsing demo failed.
And how much faith can you have in a product that wasn't really demo's. Compared to say the iPad presentation where they even went so far as to let 3 different 3rd party companies come up and live demo their new stuff and how awesome it works on the new hardware. Talk about the nifty bonus bits of the hardware and accessories was like 5 minutes tops out of the whole thing, not 60 of the 90 minutes which is what the Microsoft presentation felt like. Hell look at the video they did. It's all rocks and keyboard and kickstand etc. Compare that to the designer video which is all 'we did this so you get that' talk. And the ads which are all about what the users can do and get. Microsoft focused on features and not every useful ones while Apple focuses on the benefits because that's what consumers care about.
Apple had to demo the software and hardware. Everything about Windows 8 is available for you to demo on your own Mac or PC... there have been 3 beta released for download for free. I don't need an app demo from a 3rd party, I can download Cut The Rope myself on my own computer and play around in my own time.
So this was 100% about hardware. Yes they spent alot of time about the Touch Cover, as they would... very innovative if it works. But they also spend time talking about optically bonded display, the new dual attenna WiFi that theoretically will allow better connections. They talked about VaporMG and how thin it was, how thin the kickstand was etc... This was an exclusive hardware event. And while it did not 100% excel the iPad in specs, it does hold its own with its own innovations.
I hope its not a ploy, I hope Microsoft is just as serious about this as they were the original Xbox. Because PC hardware can be very lackluster. The software is great, which is why people continue to buy it. But outside a few releases, most PC hardware is crap. Acer usually being King of crap. It is also why I owned a 2008 Macbook Alu even though I primarely use Windows.
Above it was said that Microsoft has had problems with their hardware venders making bad hardware. That might be part of the story, but when I had Vista Basic and the Windows Media Player wouldn't play videos at all, that really pissed me off. The name "Media Player" should include video but it didn't. I used the HP media center but it was lousy. I learned about VLC from the HP tech support guy and have been happy ever since.
When spell check in Windows Mail didn't work guess what I had to do to get it working? The HP support person had me change the language from English to Spanish and save it. Then revert back to English. That was how to enable spell checking in English with Vista. First the support guy had me go through all of the regular fixes before someone on his end told him about how to fix it. It is for the reasons above and many other bits of crap I went through with Vista that has made me an enemy of Microsoft.
Microsoft is its own worst enemy because of the crap it has put out expecting the public to just take it and be happy with it. I don't know if the engineers for that company are happy working there and are in agreement with the products they put out or if they're sulking around wishing the company would change the architecture of the software to something better. Either way they make crappy OSs. I don't think that with MS in charge of hardware they will make up for their crappy software.
Above it was said that Microsoft has had problems with their hardware venders making bad hardware. That might be part of the story, but when I had Vista Basic and the Windows Media Player wouldn't play videos at all, that really pissed me off. The name "Media Player" should include video but it didn't. I used the HP media center but it was lousy. I learned about VLC from the HP tech support guy and have been happy ever since.
When spell check in Windows Mail didn't work guess what I had to do to get it working? The HP support person had me change the language from English to Spanish and save it. Then revert back to English. That was how to enable spell checking in English with Vista. First the support guy had me go through all of the regular fixes before someone on his end told him about how to fix it. It is for the reasons above and many other bits of crap I went through with Vista that has made me an enemy of Microsoft.
Microsoft is its own worst enemy because of the crap it has put out expecting the public to just take it and be happy with it. I don't know if the engineers for that company are happy working there and are in agreement with the products they put out or if they're sulking around wishing the company would change the architecture of the software to something better. Either way they make crappy OSs. I don't think that with MS in charge of hardware they will make up for their crappy software.
Wow, never knew Vista Basic didn't play video. You have to remember though that somebody invented all the media codecs and Microsoft has to pay them licensing fees. As does Android, OS X etc... They sold a cheaper version that was no frills. You as a consumer obviously went and bought the cheapest crap you could find without doing your research. Sorry. I don't always agree with Microsoft and their editions (I usually stick to Pro or Ultimate). But I can understant that there are plenty who don't use video, and just need to email, interent, and basic word processing. Especially say in a school setting.
As for the spell check. Legitimate issue. But then nobody is perfect. I have used practically all modern software from Blackberry, iOS, Android, WebOS, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, Windows 3.1 to 7, and Mac OS X Tiger upto Mountain Lion. I have found flaws in every OS I have used. Probably the worst is WebOS, great looking software and great ideas but they took it out of the oven way too soon. I use Android more on my Touchpad. The biggest issue with Vista was bad drivers and bad hardware. Vista was put on hardware it should not have been put on, there was even a lawsuit about this. Microsoft was at fault, yes. But OEMs even more so. Consumers were also at fault for buying cheap rather than research. I oddly had very few issues with Vista (I ran on several PCs), but the few I did have was on a piece of crap HP that I paid $1200 for, it was a tablet. I worked well at first but the hardware caused alot of issues including the WiFi dying etc... I switched to Mac after that but ended up founding I ran Windows in Boot Camp more than OS X.
Such a desire to copy the iPad's usability and versatility yet vendors still kept using a 16:9 display.
LOL. Microsoft and Bill Gates have been about portability for years, introducing tablets before the software was there.
For the record, you can use Windows 8 in either portrait and landscape. Its one of the reason Microsoft requires and orientation toggle switch as one of the hardware requirements.
16:9 to me is ideal. It allows split screen multitasking. Two apps at a time is a big deal for me. I chat often with friends while browsing the web. In addition its better for games and movies. I know alot of people want the iPhone to become 16:9 for those reasons.
Yes it is slight worse in portrait mode, but again everything is compromise. The only things you might do that would be better in portrait is some websites and reading books.
[quote name="UltimateKylie" url="/t/150846/microsoft-surface-just-a-ploy-to-sell-windows-8-says-acer-founder/40#post_2132743"]For the record, you can use Windows 8 in either portrait and landscape.[/QUOTe]
On the Surface? Did we even see it in portrait?
[QUOTE]16:9 to me is ideal. It allows split screen multitasking. Two apps at a time is a big deal for me. I chat often with friends while browsing the web. In addition its better for games and movies. I know alot of people want the iPhone to become 16:9 for those reasons.[/QUOTE]
For the record, you can use Windows 8 in either portrait and landscape.
On the Surface? Did we even see it in portrait?
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16:9 to me is ideal. It allows split screen multitasking. Two apps at a time is a big deal for me. I chat often with friends while browsing the web. In addition its better for games and movies. I know alot of people want the iPhone to become 16:9 for those reasons.
Yes, my reason are terrible. My touchpad which is the same res as the original iPad has been used in portrait what like 10 times. I use it in landscape primary because its best for browsing most sites (if you think that most computers are widescreen, it makes sense. Even macs are widescreen), pretty much all games are in landscape, and movies look rediculous in portrait (thought not much better on the 4:3). Just because your uses are different don't make my terrible. Even magazines I use in landscape as I like to view two pages at a time like I would in a real magazine. I think the iPad will be one of the few that has 4:3, and if thats what you want great. But it doesn't make 16:9 terrible. Practically all modern games, outside or Wii and iOS games are 16:9.
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie You as a consumer obviously went and bought the cheapest crap you could find without doing your research.
When I said videos I should have been more specific by saying DVDs. You're being kind of elitist by saying I should have done my research and that I bought the cheapest crap I could find. When a computer comes with a DVD player and the Microsoft "Windows Media Player" can't play media from a DVD then your argument is really lame.
From The Free Dictionary Dot Com:
Implied Warranty of Merchantability
Implied warranties come in two general types: merchantability and fitness. An implied warranty of merchantability is an unwritten and unspoken guarantee to the buyer that goods purchased conform to ordinary standards of care and that they are of the same average grade, quality, and value as similar goods sold under similar circumstances. In other words, merchantable goods are goods fit for the ordinary purposes for which they are to be used. The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), adopted by most states, provides that courts may imply a Warranty of merchantability when (1) the seller is the merchant of such goods, and (2) the buyer uses the goods for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are sold (§ 2-314). Thus, a buyer can sue a seller for breaching the implied warranty by selling goods unfit for their ordinary purpose.
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No matter what the price of a computer, if it comes with a DVD player and the operating system that is part of the price can't play a DVD, that is a problem.
When I said videos I should have been more specific by saying DVDs. You're being kind of elitist by saying I should have done my research and that I bought the cheapest crap I could find. When a computer comes with a DVD player and the Microsoft "Windows Media Player" can't play media from a DVD then your argument is really lame.
From The Free Dictionary Dot Com:
Implied Warranty of Merchantability
Implied warranties come in two general types: merchantability and fitness. An implied warranty of merchantability is an unwritten and unspoken guarantee to the buyer that goods purchased conform to ordinary standards of care and that they are of the same average grade, quality, and value as similar goods sold under similar circumstances. In other words, merchantable goods are goods fit for the ordinary purposes for which they are to be used. The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), adopted by most states, provides that courts may imply a Warranty of merchantability when (1) the seller is the merchant of such goods, and (2) the buyer uses the goods for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are sold (§ 2-314). Thus, a buyer can sue a seller for breaching the implied warranty by selling goods unfit for their ordinary purpose.
================
No matter what the price of a computer, if it comes with a DVD player and the operating system that is part of the price can't play a DVD, that is a problem.
Except DVDs can be used to alot more than just Movies on a computer. Alot of software came on DVDs until downloads became more popular. In fact Windows Vista was on a DVD, so the only way to reinstall was having a DVD drive. Microsoft would have correctly argued the DVD drive was for software. And that it was up to the consumer to check if DVD Video Playback was available. For your FYE, DVDs will not play back on Windows 8, most people just don't use DVDs that way on computers and there is a cost involved. Even Apple is moving away from DVD Playback. You can purchase a Media Pro pack for Windows 8 Pro that will include Media Center and DVD Playback. Microsoft has said it will only charge the amount required to cover licensing (one of the parties being Motorola, who recently is not being so fair about them, there is a EU Antitrust investigation brought by Apple and Microsoft).
Comments
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Originally Posted by SockRolid
Surface Pro: $699. Because we're Microsoft dammit. And because none of those Ultrabook weenies can hit the $699 price point.
Cue Acer, HP and Dell dropping the price of their ultrabooks to $699 on the Surface Pro release day.
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Originally Posted by Rayz
I dunno.
This whole Surface thing just seems a little bit strange to me. Ignoring the fact that the presentation was an almost word-for-word ripoff of the one Jobs gave a few years ago, it all seemed a little bit desperate. The Surface certainly didn't appear like a product that had been developed in secrecy for years; it was more like a spec-list cribbed from Apple rumours ('look it has a LIQUID METAL back', 'look the screen is just as good as Retina'). And if this thing had been in development for so long then why is it crashing on it's first demo? Why didn't they show it running any apps? Why were they reluctant to let anyone play with it? Why haven't the specs and the prices been nailed down yet?
I don't think this is a long-term hidden project. I think this is something that only came into being a few months ago. And I don't think Microsoft cares if they make money from it. This is Microsoft telling its lazy OEMs that this is the device they want them to build, and if they don't...
I have to LMAO at all the M$ fanboys on engadget, cnet, etc. now dissing all these PC OEM's as crap when before this vaporware announcement they were drooling over all these ultrabooks and how they were so much better than MacBook Air, and how the Transformer Prime and PadFone run circles around iPad. Now these same clowns are saying M$ has to build a product to show all the OEM's how to do it properly.
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Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
There is a good write-up on Apple 2.0 about why people think the effort is real.
I think the effort is very real. Microsoft has seen what has happened with Apple and their vertical integration especially with iOS and they have had seen what has happened with Android and some of the crappy hardware that is out there. Android is being blamed for the poor experience at times when it's the OEM tinkering and horrid hardware. I think that Microsoft really believes that they can do better than the OEMs with an integrated device.
Now whether that is true remains to be seen. I won't call this a failure off the year one cause hey the original iPad wasn't that sexy looking either. And it was missing cameras etc. Perhaps Microsoft will pull this off enough to make it worth creating a version 2.0 that will be better. I don't think they will take the tablet market with either but they might put a dent in the netbook world with their Pro model and they might at least bring a few more folks into the notion of tablet form computing. I heard someone say that only perhaps 50% of the potential audience for any tablet device has actually bought in which is why things like the Fire could sell a few million and not put a dent in the rate of iPad sales. i.e. the rate of the market share held went down because the total market came up. These tablets could do the same. I know I have family members that think my iPad look really cool but they are die hard Windows users and they simply will not work with anything Mac. they would buy a Windows tablet if the price was right. And they would buy into the notion that hardware made together with the software simply has to be better than the alternative.
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Originally Posted by vigilant007
It kind of amuses me that the very best that Microsoft's internal development team can do for a new UI is a bunch of colored boxes with text in it. I am not sure why on earth anyone would think that a giant colored box is good UI but I am personally shocked at the stark laziness of the UI.
I maintain that when the developers got the instructions to create Metro the very first order was that it couldn't look anything like iOS in any way cause they didn't want to deal with any lawsuits.
thus the boxes.
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Originally Posted by otterfish
Yeah, that Siri. My point exactly.
There's no reason Siri couldn't be on the iPad 2 or the new iPad today (or the iPhone 4 for that matter) but instead Apple only makes the full release (remember the iOS 5 version is still a beta) available on certain hardware and only in the next iOS release.
Actually Siri can't be on the iPad 2, at least not effectively, because it lacks the appropriate microphone hardware which was put into the iPad 3 for dictation. Siri is still in beta so it actually makes sense not to knowingly over tax the system by adding a few million more users.
And I believe that the real point of the previous comment was that Siri hasn't been in any tablets and there was no mention that it would be added later when the iPad 3 came out and yet they all sold in the millions without it. So to say that novelty features like Siri are how Apple is selling their tablets is false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterfish
Oh, and maybe if you had bothered to read my post on Siri you would know I know exactly how it works and how Apple could actually make it better.
I have read that post and I saw nothing that shows that you KNOW EXACTLY anything about how Siri works or that you actually know how to improve it. instead you know that it is server based and you think it sucks. And what you wish it did and didn't do whether those opinions are universal or even feasible.
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Originally Posted by Slurpy
Yeah, because under Jobs this never happened, right? I can think of like 20 situations off the top of my head where it did, most more eggregious than Siri. Stop trying to twist reality to fit your narrative that the boat is sinking because Jobs is gone. Jobs was alive for 4 generations of iPhones, and there was a TON of people bitching during that time about features artificially limited to newer devices. This didn't start after his death, but I'm sure you knew that. There's not a shred of evidence to suggest Siri would be on the iPad 2 or iPhone 4 if Jobs was alive. An objective, reasonable person would realize that Apple's decision making, philosophy, attitude, and obsession with detail and excellence has remained remarkably consistent.
If you keep adding the latest and greatest features to older devices #1 does it ruin the performance of the device and you're stuck with users b*itching about the experience or calling customer service with complaints? And #2 how do you continue to sell new devices if current devices get all the features/functionality of new devices?
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Originally Posted by Rayz
I dunno.
This whole Surface thing just seems a little bit strange to me. Ignoring the fact that the presentation was an almost word-for-word ripoff of the one Jobs gave a few years ago,
My favorite part of that video is when it cuts from Jobs in his arm chair, cursing Safari to what's his name trying to do the same and his demo crashes. That moment sums it all up for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
If you keep adding the latest and greatest features to older devices #1 does it ruin the performance of the device and you're stuck with users b*itching about the experience or calling customer service with complaints?
Sometimes yes, which is why Apple doesn't do it. Take Siri on the iPad. The 1st and 2nd generations don't have the added microphones and noise canceling of the 3rd Gen so using Siri would be a disaster unless you have an extremely clear voice and are in an area with zero noise. And how often is that true. Not to mention dumping that many users into a system that is already suffering server overload just makes that problem worse and diminishes the experience for everyone. Which Apple isn't going to do, it's not their style. Same with putting things like those 3d Flyover maps on phones and iPads with slower processes that will then freeze, crash etc.
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Originally Posted by jragosta
You're missing the entire point. The keyboard doesn't mean that it can only be used with the keyboard. What they're offering is a tablet that will try to compete with all the other tablets, but with an additional feature - the keyboard. So you can use it just like any other tablet (in the car, on the beach, in your lap), but when you want to do extensive typing, you add the keyboard and put it on a table.
Sorry but you are the one that missed the point. It wasn't about whether the keyboard is required etc. It was that the lion's share of this presentation was about the accessories and things like the kickstand and that it was made with magnesium and not actually demoing the OS etc. They super brushed over that as if they were scared to try to show too much, particularly after the web browsing demo failed.
And how much faith can you have in a product that wasn't really demo's. Compared to say the iPad presentation where they even went so far as to let 3 different 3rd party companies come up and live demo their new stuff and how awesome it works on the new hardware. Talk about the nifty bonus bits of the hardware and accessories was like 5 minutes tops out of the whole thing, not 60 of the 90 minutes which is what the Microsoft presentation felt like. Hell look at the video they did. It's all rocks and keyboard and kickstand etc. Compare that to the designer video which is all 'we did this so you get that' talk. And the ads which are all about what the users can do and get. Microsoft focused on features and not every useful ones while Apple focuses on the benefits because that's what consumers care about.
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Originally Posted by charlituna
Sorry but you are the one that missed the point. It wasn't about whether the keyboard is required etc. It was that the lion's share of this presentation was about the accessories and things like the kickstand and that it was made with magnesium and not actually demoing the OS etc. They super brushed over that as if they were scared to try to show too much, particularly after the web browsing demo failed.
And how much faith can you have in a product that wasn't really demo's. Compared to say the iPad presentation where they even went so far as to let 3 different 3rd party companies come up and live demo their new stuff and how awesome it works on the new hardware. Talk about the nifty bonus bits of the hardware and accessories was like 5 minutes tops out of the whole thing, not 60 of the 90 minutes which is what the Microsoft presentation felt like. Hell look at the video they did. It's all rocks and keyboard and kickstand etc. Compare that to the designer video which is all 'we did this so you get that' talk. And the ads which are all about what the users can do and get. Microsoft focused on features and not every useful ones while Apple focuses on the benefits because that's what consumers care about.
Apple had to demo the software and hardware. Everything about Windows 8 is available for you to demo on your own Mac or PC... there have been 3 beta released for download for free. I don't need an app demo from a 3rd party, I can download Cut The Rope myself on my own computer and play around in my own time.
So this was 100% about hardware. Yes they spent alot of time about the Touch Cover, as they would... very innovative if it works. But they also spend time talking about optically bonded display, the new dual attenna WiFi that theoretically will allow better connections. They talked about VaporMG and how thin it was, how thin the kickstand was etc... This was an exclusive hardware event. And while it did not 100% excel the iPad in specs, it does hold its own with its own innovations.
I hope its not a ploy, I hope Microsoft is just as serious about this as they were the original Xbox. Because PC hardware can be very lackluster. The software is great, which is why people continue to buy it. But outside a few releases, most PC hardware is crap. Acer usually being King of crap. It is also why I owned a 2008 Macbook Alu even though I primarely use Windows.
Above it was said that Microsoft has had problems with their hardware venders making bad hardware. That might be part of the story, but when I had Vista Basic and the Windows Media Player wouldn't play videos at all, that really pissed me off. The name "Media Player" should include video but it didn't. I used the HP media center but it was lousy. I learned about VLC from the HP tech support guy and have been happy ever since.
When spell check in Windows Mail didn't work guess what I had to do to get it working? The HP support person had me change the language from English to Spanish and save it. Then revert back to English. That was how to enable spell checking in English with Vista. First the support guy had me go through all of the regular fixes before someone on his end told him about how to fix it. It is for the reasons above and many other bits of crap I went through with Vista that has made me an enemy of Microsoft.
Microsoft is its own worst enemy because of the crap it has put out expecting the public to just take it and be happy with it. I don't know if the engineers for that company are happy working there and are in agreement with the products they put out or if they're sulking around wishing the company would change the architecture of the software to something better. Either way they make crappy OSs. I don't think that with MS in charge of hardware they will make up for their crappy software.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
Above it was said that Microsoft has had problems with their hardware venders making bad hardware. That might be part of the story, but when I had Vista Basic and the Windows Media Player wouldn't play videos at all, that really pissed me off. The name "Media Player" should include video but it didn't. I used the HP media center but it was lousy. I learned about VLC from the HP tech support guy and have been happy ever since.
When spell check in Windows Mail didn't work guess what I had to do to get it working? The HP support person had me change the language from English to Spanish and save it. Then revert back to English. That was how to enable spell checking in English with Vista. First the support guy had me go through all of the regular fixes before someone on his end told him about how to fix it. It is for the reasons above and many other bits of crap I went through with Vista that has made me an enemy of Microsoft.
Microsoft is its own worst enemy because of the crap it has put out expecting the public to just take it and be happy with it. I don't know if the engineers for that company are happy working there and are in agreement with the products they put out or if they're sulking around wishing the company would change the architecture of the software to something better. Either way they make crappy OSs. I don't think that with MS in charge of hardware they will make up for their crappy software.
Wow, never knew Vista Basic didn't play video. You have to remember though that somebody invented all the media codecs and Microsoft has to pay them licensing fees. As does Android, OS X etc... They sold a cheaper version that was no frills. You as a consumer obviously went and bought the cheapest crap you could find without doing your research. Sorry. I don't always agree with Microsoft and their editions (I usually stick to Pro or Ultimate). But I can understant that there are plenty who don't use video, and just need to email, interent, and basic word processing. Especially say in a school setting.
As for the spell check. Legitimate issue. But then nobody is perfect. I have used practically all modern software from Blackberry, iOS, Android, WebOS, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, Windows 3.1 to 7, and Mac OS X Tiger upto Mountain Lion. I have found flaws in every OS I have used. Probably the worst is WebOS, great looking software and great ideas but they took it out of the oven way too soon. I use Android more on my Touchpad. The biggest issue with Vista was bad drivers and bad hardware. Vista was put on hardware it should not have been put on, there was even a lawsuit about this. Microsoft was at fault, yes. But OEMs even more so. Consumers were also at fault for buying cheap rather than research. I oddly had very few issues with Vista (I ran on several PCs), but the few I did have was on a piece of crap HP that I paid $1200 for, it was a tablet. I worked well at first but the hardware caused alot of issues including the WiFi dying etc... I switched to Mac after that but ended up founding I ran Windows in Boot Camp more than OS X.
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Such a desire to copy the iPad's usability and versatility yet vendors still kept using a 16:9 display.
LOL. Microsoft and Bill Gates have been about portability for years, introducing tablets before the software was there.
For the record, you can use Windows 8 in either portrait and landscape. Its one of the reason Microsoft requires and orientation toggle switch as one of the hardware requirements.
16:9 to me is ideal. It allows split screen multitasking. Two apps at a time is a big deal for me. I chat often with friends while browsing the web. In addition its better for games and movies. I know alot of people want the iPhone to become 16:9 for those reasons.
Yes it is slight worse in portrait mode, but again everything is compromise. The only things you might do that would be better in portrait is some websites and reading books.
About the fan issue. My MBA fans never kick in, because it has an aluminum shell that is low heat.
On the Surface? Did we even see it in portrait?
[QUOTE]16:9 to me is ideal. It allows split screen multitasking. Two apps at a time is a big deal for me. I chat often with friends while browsing the web. In addition its better for games and movies. I know alot of people want the iPhone to become 16:9 for those reasons.[/QUOTE]
Those are terrible reasons.
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
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Originally Posted by UltimateKylie
For the record, you can use Windows 8 in either portrait and landscape.
On the Surface? Did we even see it in portrait?
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16:9 to me is ideal. It allows split screen multitasking. Two apps at a time is a big deal for me. I chat often with friends while browsing the web. In addition its better for games and movies. I know alot of people want the iPhone to become 16:9 for those reasons.
Those are terrible reasons.
Yes we have. http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/tablets/microsoft-surface-tablet-1085839/review#articleContent Windows 8 has always supported portrait and requires a toggle switch to lock on all tablet hardware. I don't expect Apple fanboys to follow this, but it is an easy Google/Bing. But check the link above for a picture.
Yes, my reason are terrible. My touchpad which is the same res as the original iPad has been used in portrait what like 10 times. I use it in landscape primary because its best for browsing most sites (if you think that most computers are widescreen, it makes sense. Even macs are widescreen), pretty much all games are in landscape, and movies look rediculous in portrait (thought not much better on the 4:3). Just because your uses are different don't make my terrible. Even magazines I use in landscape as I like to view two pages at a time like I would in a real magazine. I think the iPad will be one of the few that has 4:3, and if thats what you want great. But it doesn't make 16:9 terrible. Practically all modern games, outside or Wii and iOS games are 16:9.
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Originally Posted by UltimateKylie
When I said videos I should have been more specific by saying DVDs. You're being kind of elitist by saying I should have done my research and that I bought the cheapest crap I could find. When a computer comes with a DVD player and the Microsoft "Windows Media Player" can't play media from a DVD then your argument is really lame.
From The Free Dictionary Dot Com:
Implied Warranty of Merchantability
Implied warranties come in two general types: merchantability and fitness. An implied warranty of merchantability is an unwritten and unspoken guarantee to the buyer that goods purchased conform to ordinary standards of care and that they are of the same average grade, quality, and value as similar goods sold under similar circumstances. In other words, merchantable goods are goods fit for the ordinary purposes for which they are to be used. The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), adopted by most states, provides that courts may imply a Warranty of merchantability when (1) the seller is the merchant of such goods, and (2) the buyer uses the goods for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are sold (§ 2-314). Thus, a buyer can sue a seller for breaching the implied warranty by selling goods unfit for their ordinary purpose.
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No matter what the price of a computer, if it comes with a DVD player and the operating system that is part of the price can't play a DVD, that is a problem.
There's no way I could consider this.
Windows 8 has been so bad for me. I've installed it 3 seperate times and each time it has been awful.
Even with the Release Preview, it's been incredibly buggy, messy, and unfitting for anything other than a 7" tablet.
But it was just what I needed to convince myself to buy my first Mac. A RMBP.
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Originally Posted by Smallwheels
When I said videos I should have been more specific by saying DVDs. You're being kind of elitist by saying I should have done my research and that I bought the cheapest crap I could find. When a computer comes with a DVD player and the Microsoft "Windows Media Player" can't play media from a DVD then your argument is really lame.
From The Free Dictionary Dot Com:
Implied Warranty of Merchantability
Implied warranties come in two general types: merchantability and fitness. An implied warranty of merchantability is an unwritten and unspoken guarantee to the buyer that goods purchased conform to ordinary standards of care and that they are of the same average grade, quality, and value as similar goods sold under similar circumstances. In other words, merchantable goods are goods fit for the ordinary purposes for which they are to be used. The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), adopted by most states, provides that courts may imply a Warranty of merchantability when (1) the seller is the merchant of such goods, and (2) the buyer uses the goods for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are sold (§ 2-314). Thus, a buyer can sue a seller for breaching the implied warranty by selling goods unfit for their ordinary purpose.
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No matter what the price of a computer, if it comes with a DVD player and the operating system that is part of the price can't play a DVD, that is a problem.
Except DVDs can be used to alot more than just Movies on a computer. Alot of software came on DVDs until downloads became more popular. In fact Windows Vista was on a DVD, so the only way to reinstall was having a DVD drive. Microsoft would have correctly argued the DVD drive was for software. And that it was up to the consumer to check if DVD Video Playback was available. For your FYE, DVDs will not play back on Windows 8, most people just don't use DVDs that way on computers and there is a cost involved. Even Apple is moving away from DVD Playback. You can purchase a Media Pro pack for Windows 8 Pro that will include Media Center and DVD Playback. Microsoft has said it will only charge the amount required to cover licensing (one of the parties being Motorola, who recently is not being so fair about them, there is a EU Antitrust investigation brought by Apple and Microsoft).