Apple starts Specialists in SF @ $14 hour. You don't need any special education, or prior work experience, just the right attitude and personality and then Apple provides training. This training is the first piece of compensation you get, as you then are a more qualified candidate for other jobs. With Apple on your resume, you are an even more attractive candidate. You also get a 401k with matching (although most of the 20-somethings don't even think about saving, they are too busy spending on booze, etc.). You get health benefits, even if you are part-time (minimum 15 hours per week required). You have the opportunity to purchase stock at a very discounted rate (again, the younger staff usually don't take advantage of this, although buying just a couple shares a year can be valuable). You get sick, vacation. You get a very good company discount on products, which is now even better through the new program. The SL at the store where I worked used to say you will never get rich off your annual increases. If you want more money, you have to work hard and take advantage of every training opportunity (and there are many) and MOVE UP into a new role. Promotions pay extremely well as you jump into a new pay grade. Any Apple specialist who wants to make more money has the opportunity to try to move into a new role but it has to be earned. Eventually they will "cap out" and have a fantastic resume to move into a new company in a more responsible position. I've seen many talented folks work hard, get promoted, and then leave to make 2-3 times what Apple retail was paying. Retail sales is not a long term career, it's a starting point. Comes with starting salaries. Unless you work in a high end retailer with a commission system where you can stay in place. Apple is not about stagnating in a role, it's about owning your development and moving on eventually to a place where you can contribute more. Three years is about as long as one should work in retail as a sales person (see exception above) and they should enough ambition to want to move on.
UPS delivery drivers earn a starting salary of $73,000. They work their way up from sorting and unloading trucks for years. Most of them have college degrees but really what do they do? They look at labels, drive a van around, haul boxes out of their trucks and get signatures. Requiring people to have any type of degree other than a commercial driver license is just stupid. Actually they don't need a CDL for the trucks they drive.
I drive a school bus hauling people. I earn much less than any UPS driver and many would consider my cargo more valuable. Certainly my responsibility is greater. I work for an international company based in England. That company pays the lowest wages they can in every city they operate. Turnover is high. Corporations don't care about that for any job that can be taught in a couple of weeks.
Look at some fast food restaurants or even high end restaurants. They pay minimum wage or just a little more (unless you live in North Dakota). It is hot dirty work cooking and cleaning inside a restaurant. Dish washers earn low pay and aren't given a chance to upgrade into food prep jobs. They just get to wash dishes for low pay until they quit. I've seen it for years when I worked in the restaurant staff services business. Companies care about their month to month bottom line, not about building loyalty or experience with low wage employees.
Apple sales employees should be on commission sales with a draw. If Apple wants their people to be less pushy then there should be no commission and no minimum sales quantity for each salesperson. They should not pressure their sales staff to sell more if they don't want them to be pushy with customers.
Apple is like other corporations because they only work to maximize their profits. We've all read about how many people here were disappointed with the last updates to some products. Many others continue to be let down by the slow updates to Apple products. If Apple cared about being the best instead of profiting the most, these things wouldn't happen. The same goes with their employees and pay.
UPS delivery drivers earn a starting salary of $73,000. They work their way up from sorting and unloading trucks for years. Most of them have college degrees but really what do they do? They look at labels, drive a van around, haul boxes out of their trucks and get signatures. Requiring people to have any type of degree other than a commercial driver license is just stupid. Actually they don't need a CDL for the trucks they drive.
Most careers could probably be taught as a trade without the need for having to take 2 years of a foreign language you'll never use or any of the humanities and soft science electives. Even the sciences and maths which do often build off each other still have plenty of filler courses that are required to fulfill a degree and a great deal of stuff most of won't ever use in our careers or even remember past the next week's test.
That's simply not the point when a company looks for employees with degrees. There are plenty of occupations that require a degree in a certain field, especially for higher level degrees, but for the typical bachelors in arts the point is to much simpler. It does two things for UPS and other companies. One, it proves that you were able to stick with something for 4 years and even suggests you've learned to "eat shit." Two, it weeds out a lot of candidates that would otherwise be wanting that position.
That isn't to say that those without degrees are less intelligent or less responsible than applicants without degrees but it prove something in and of itself even if that proof also includes a certain level of luck because of the family you born into, your health, your geographic location, etc. At $73k a year plus their benefits, which I hear is superb, I doubt many UPS drivers are complaining that their degree in English literature is being wasted.
UPS delivery drivers earn a starting salary of $73,000. They work their way up from sorting and unloading trucks for years. Most of them have college degrees but really what do they do? They look at labels, drive a van around, haul boxes out of their trucks and get signatures. Requiring people to have any type of degree other than a commercial driver license is just stupid. Actually they don't need a CDL for the trucks they drive.
I drive a school bus hauling people. I earn much less than any UPS driver and many would consider my cargo more valuable. Certainly my responsibility is greater. I work for an international company based in England. That company pays the lowest wages they can in every city they operate. Turnover is high. Corporations don't care about that for any job that can be taught in a couple of weeks.
Look at some fast food restaurants or even high end restaurants. They pay minimum wage or just a little more (unless you live in North Dakota). It is hot dirty work cooking and cleaning inside a restaurant. Dish washers earn low pay and aren't given a chance to upgrade into food prep jobs. They just get to wash dishes for low pay until they quit. I've seen it for years when I worked in the restaurant staff services business. Companies care about their month to month bottom line, not about building loyalty or experience with low wage employees.
Apple sales employees should be on commission sales with a draw. If Apple wants their people to be less pushy then there should be no commission and no minimum sales quantity for each salesperson. They should not pressure their sales staff to sell more if they don't want them to be pushy with customers.
Apple is like other corporations because they only work to maximize their profits. We've all read about how many people here were disappointed with the last updates to some products. Many others continue to be let down by the slow updates to Apple products. If Apple cared about being the best instead of profiting the most, these things wouldn't happen. The same goes with their employees and pay.
Nobody said life is fair. Don't think your job pays you enough? Then stop complaining and get a new one.
The decision to increase retail workers' pay wasn't made in a day either. And increasing retail workers' pay is simply smart business. In Apple's higher ups' mind, the retail employees were too valuable to lose to another company. The higher ups decided to bump up pay so that they would not feel an incentive to move somewhere else.
The whole premise of the NYT article is that Apple is very rich so they should share their wealth by increasing salaries. In any job, it's up to you as the employee to prove that you are worth the money you are paid. If you think you deserve a raise, it's up to you to prove that you should be paid more.
Is the pay scale of those Apple retail workers that unusually low to draw media attention? Is the job a very difficult one to do apart from having to be on your feet all day long? Apparently every great empire in history is built on the backs of low-paid drones. I doubt that will ever change. Is the CEO of any company actually worth thousands of times in higher pay than the lowest paid workers? Probably not. I'm not surprised that Apple is always being singled out as a terrible company supporting human injustices. It just goes along with the territory of being a successful company. I still say that as long as there are potential employees out there willing or practically begging to get work and Apple can give them jobs, then Apple isn't doing too badly at all. The NYT would be better of reporting the job losses at RIM, H-P, Dell or Nokia rather than going after Apple. I know that if I was looking for a job, I would certainly be willing to work at Apple those Apple retail stores rather than going to J.C. Penney's or Old Navy. I've had lower-paying jobs and worked in much worse conditions with forced overtime, so to me working at Apple would probably be like a vacation. I guess it's always different when looking from the outside-in than the other way around. I honestly do wonder how the job conditions and pay-scale would be for those employees working at the NYT. Does anyone think that there would be better working conditions and pay at the NYT than at Apple retail?
The whole premise of the NYT article is that Apple is very rich so they should share their wealth by increasing salaries.
That about sums it up. Of course what they totally ignore is the fact that just because you are an employee that doesn’t equate you to being an invested owner of said company. That pretty much never happens in any organization no matter how successful that company is. You want to make money based on the value of the company you can invest in it. That’s the away things work.
It appears that NYT is on mission. They will twist their facts their make their point. It is amazing how they are computing earnings per employees to make their point. What about all those engineers who are working in Cupertino to innovate the product? They went to many years of college to get to where they are. Isn't it injustice to them that the retail guys who are either still in college or haven't finished any college to have them compare against their engineer. By the way, it i bogus about some guy at retail store selling quarter million of goods at Apple. This guys are not on commission. And what did he meant he sold that - Again, NYT is taking things out of context. And, comparison against Lulemon ? WTF ? Why aren't they comparing against the next largest market cap company - ExxonMobil? I wonder what is their earnings per employees and how close do they pay their guys working out on the rigs and other dangerous places?
Last but not least - They just increased the salary of their retail workers unto 25%. This is unheard of - Especially in such hard time like right now - I would like to hear such raises to people who are working out there. I bet some of the people are even getting inflation adjustment raises.
It appears that NYT is on mission. They will twist their facts their make their point. It is amazing how they are computing earnings per employees to make their point.
Gruber made a funny comment to that effect tonight.
Why aren't they comparing against the next largest market cap company - ExxonMobil? I wonder what is their earnings per employees and how close do they pay their guys working out on the rigs and other dangerous places?
I wonder when NYT will write an article comparing how fuel is spent each year at a gas station and to much the attendant behind the register gets paid per hour.
Wow! I am amazed by your post. Tell me something, if you know so much about media stuff - Do all stories make it into paper? I am sure certain story don't make it. Okay! let's say I will give you that maybe NYT was working on this story for some time, Let's say I will give you 3 weeks. Apple got the smell of the story and they get scared and expedited their announcement before the story came out. Do you think companies makes such large increases as much as 25% over night? Do you think they started looking into this when they found out NYT was looking into this matter some 3 weeks ago? I don't understand how people come to conclusion that a largest market cap company in the world is run by some stupid executives who makes random decisions.
Bottom line - NYT will do everything, even look stupid, to generate some buzz around.
I'll be the first to admit I did not have high hopes for Browett, given all the bad press about Dixon's and his operations (i.e. cost-cutting) background.
But if the recent wage hike announcement is his doing, then I am pleasantly surprised.
As for all you guys pathetically defending poor wages for hard work, in America or in China, understand that your approach is not only inhuman and demoralizing, but bad economics. Disgruntled employees have a million ways to cause economic damage, through action, or inaction, and once that kind of culture sets in it is very hard to change. In the long run, "winner takes all" is a sure fire formula for "everybody loses". A little generosity can go a long way. Even Browett gets it. So should you.
Seems as though the NYT is on a roll on finding Gloom and Domm related to Apple products a d it's practices I'm not saying that everything that Apple does is perfect or good , However a 2 sided picture From NYT would be more realistic rather than skipping Apples good points.
It's already obvious that NYT & APPLE are not on good media terms and this article is not going to make anything better
I am ashamed to be in company with so many cold hearted, mean spirited people on these forums. I thought that Apple fans were different. You sound like a bunch of Islamic fundamentalists. I guess when a brand gets to become so big, it has to absorb even bottom feeders.
Seems as though the NYT is on a roll on finding Gloom and Domm related to Apple products a d it's practices
I'm not saying that everything that Apple does is perfect or good , However a 2 sided picture From NYT would be more realistic rather than skipping Apples good points.
It's already obvious that NYT & APPLE are not on good media terms and this article is not going to make anything better
Are you kidding?? Have you ever read ANY NYT article by David Pogue?
I think Pavlov; slap the name Apple on your article and you know you will get traffic. All could be true, but the other side is that you you have devices around you were you can test your apps on. It's a bit naive to think your boss will make you rich, when you won't do it yourself. I'll be glad to work in an Apple store and do some testing. :-)
Should they pay Fedex more than the going rate for shipping because Apple has lots of money?
They could stop using (at least here in Europe) UPS, which sucks tremendously. On four Apple deliveries in two years, all by UPS, none arrived at my home on time and without me having to call UPS and enquire after a week
Funny how Apple is doing so horribly at Chinese work conditions after having just drastically improved Chinese work conditions.
Funny how Apple is putting out so much pollution after having just building the green energy plant for its servers.
Funny how Apple is short-changing its retail employees after having just drastically increased pay for retail employees.
Why can't we get some overseeing body to shut down these idiots in the media? That wouldn't be stifling free speech. It would be stifling lies.
Here in the UK, Apple store employees earn more than any other electronics retailer. Those people on the shop floor at PC World and Comet are on or just above minimum wage.
Besides, these people aren't exactly curing cancer as well, they're selling electronics to people. I'd say $25k a year is pretty decent when I'm only earning £16k as a web developer right now.
Comments
Apple starts Specialists in SF @ $14 hour. You don't need any special education, or prior work experience, just the right attitude and personality and then Apple provides training. This training is the first piece of compensation you get, as you then are a more qualified candidate for other jobs. With Apple on your resume, you are an even more attractive candidate. You also get a 401k with matching (although most of the 20-somethings don't even think about saving, they are too busy spending on booze, etc.). You get health benefits, even if you are part-time (minimum 15 hours per week required). You have the opportunity to purchase stock at a very discounted rate (again, the younger staff usually don't take advantage of this, although buying just a couple shares a year can be valuable). You get sick, vacation. You get a very good company discount on products, which is now even better through the new program. The SL at the store where I worked used to say you will never get rich off your annual increases. If you want more money, you have to work hard and take advantage of every training opportunity (and there are many) and MOVE UP into a new role. Promotions pay extremely well as you jump into a new pay grade. Any Apple specialist who wants to make more money has the opportunity to try to move into a new role but it has to be earned. Eventually they will "cap out" and have a fantastic resume to move into a new company in a more responsible position. I've seen many talented folks work hard, get promoted, and then leave to make 2-3 times what Apple retail was paying. Retail sales is not a long term career, it's a starting point. Comes with starting salaries. Unless you work in a high end retailer with a commission system where you can stay in place. Apple is not about stagnating in a role, it's about owning your development and moving on eventually to a place where you can contribute more. Three years is about as long as one should work in retail as a sales person (see exception above) and they should enough ambition to want to move on.
It's fucking retail. I don't care that it's Apple. IT'S FUCKING RETAIL!
UPS delivery drivers earn a starting salary of $73,000. They work their way up from sorting and unloading trucks for years. Most of them have college degrees but really what do they do? They look at labels, drive a van around, haul boxes out of their trucks and get signatures. Requiring people to have any type of degree other than a commercial driver license is just stupid. Actually they don't need a CDL for the trucks they drive.
I drive a school bus hauling people. I earn much less than any UPS driver and many would consider my cargo more valuable. Certainly my responsibility is greater. I work for an international company based in England. That company pays the lowest wages they can in every city they operate. Turnover is high. Corporations don't care about that for any job that can be taught in a couple of weeks.
Look at some fast food restaurants or even high end restaurants. They pay minimum wage or just a little more (unless you live in North Dakota). It is hot dirty work cooking and cleaning inside a restaurant. Dish washers earn low pay and aren't given a chance to upgrade into food prep jobs. They just get to wash dishes for low pay until they quit. I've seen it for years when I worked in the restaurant staff services business. Companies care about their month to month bottom line, not about building loyalty or experience with low wage employees.
Apple sales employees should be on commission sales with a draw. If Apple wants their people to be less pushy then there should be no commission and no minimum sales quantity for each salesperson. They should not pressure their sales staff to sell more if they don't want them to be pushy with customers.
Apple is like other corporations because they only work to maximize their profits. We've all read about how many people here were disappointed with the last updates to some products. Many others continue to be let down by the slow updates to Apple products. If Apple cared about being the best instead of profiting the most, these things wouldn't happen. The same goes with their employees and pay.
Most careers could probably be taught as a trade without the need for having to take 2 years of a foreign language you'll never use or any of the humanities and soft science electives. Even the sciences and maths which do often build off each other still have plenty of filler courses that are required to fulfill a degree and a great deal of stuff most of won't ever use in our careers or even remember past the next week's test.
That's simply not the point when a company looks for employees with degrees. There are plenty of occupations that require a degree in a certain field, especially for higher level degrees, but for the typical bachelors in arts the point is to much simpler. It does two things for UPS and other companies. One, it proves that you were able to stick with something for 4 years and even suggests you've learned to "eat shit." Two, it weeds out a lot of candidates that would otherwise be wanting that position.
That isn't to say that those without degrees are less intelligent or less responsible than applicants without degrees but it prove something in and of itself even if that proof also includes a certain level of luck because of the family you born into, your health, your geographic location, etc. At $73k a year plus their benefits, which I hear is superb, I doubt many UPS drivers are complaining that their degree in English literature is being wasted.
It should be against the law to hold guns at people's heads to make them work for you. Shame on Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
UPS delivery drivers earn a starting salary of $73,000. They work their way up from sorting and unloading trucks for years. Most of them have college degrees but really what do they do? They look at labels, drive a van around, haul boxes out of their trucks and get signatures. Requiring people to have any type of degree other than a commercial driver license is just stupid. Actually they don't need a CDL for the trucks they drive.
I drive a school bus hauling people. I earn much less than any UPS driver and many would consider my cargo more valuable. Certainly my responsibility is greater. I work for an international company based in England. That company pays the lowest wages they can in every city they operate. Turnover is high. Corporations don't care about that for any job that can be taught in a couple of weeks.
Look at some fast food restaurants or even high end restaurants. They pay minimum wage or just a little more (unless you live in North Dakota). It is hot dirty work cooking and cleaning inside a restaurant. Dish washers earn low pay and aren't given a chance to upgrade into food prep jobs. They just get to wash dishes for low pay until they quit. I've seen it for years when I worked in the restaurant staff services business. Companies care about their month to month bottom line, not about building loyalty or experience with low wage employees.
Apple sales employees should be on commission sales with a draw. If Apple wants their people to be less pushy then there should be no commission and no minimum sales quantity for each salesperson. They should not pressure their sales staff to sell more if they don't want them to be pushy with customers.
Apple is like other corporations because they only work to maximize their profits. We've all read about how many people here were disappointed with the last updates to some products. Many others continue to be let down by the slow updates to Apple products. If Apple cared about being the best instead of profiting the most, these things wouldn't happen. The same goes with their employees and pay.
Nobody said life is fair. Don't think your job pays you enough? Then stop complaining and get a new one.
Tell US who does it better than Apple.
The decision to increase retail workers' pay wasn't made in a day either. And increasing retail workers' pay is simply smart business. In Apple's higher ups' mind, the retail employees were too valuable to lose to another company. The higher ups decided to bump up pay so that they would not feel an incentive to move somewhere else.
The whole premise of the NYT article is that Apple is very rich so they should share their wealth by increasing salaries. In any job, it's up to you as the employee to prove that you are worth the money you are paid. If you think you deserve a raise, it's up to you to prove that you should be paid more.
Is the pay scale of those Apple retail workers that unusually low to draw media attention? Is the job a very difficult one to do apart from having to be on your feet all day long? Apparently every great empire in history is built on the backs of low-paid drones. I doubt that will ever change. Is the CEO of any company actually worth thousands of times in higher pay than the lowest paid workers? Probably not. I'm not surprised that Apple is always being singled out as a terrible company supporting human injustices. It just goes along with the territory of being a successful company. I still say that as long as there are potential employees out there willing or practically begging to get work and Apple can give them jobs, then Apple isn't doing too badly at all. The NYT would be better of reporting the job losses at RIM, H-P, Dell or Nokia rather than going after Apple. I know that if I was looking for a job, I would certainly be willing to work at Apple those Apple retail stores rather than going to J.C. Penney's or Old Navy. I've had lower-paying jobs and worked in much worse conditions with forced overtime, so to me working at Apple would probably be like a vacation. I guess it's always different when looking from the outside-in than the other way around. I honestly do wonder how the job conditions and pay-scale would be for those employees working at the NYT. Does anyone think that there would be better working conditions and pay at the NYT than at Apple retail?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup
The whole premise of the NYT article is that Apple is very rich so they should share their wealth by increasing salaries.
That about sums it up. Of course what they totally ignore is the fact that just because you are an employee that doesn’t equate you to being an invested owner of said company. That pretty much never happens in any organization no matter how successful that company is. You want to make money based on the value of the company you can invest in it. That’s the away things work.
It appears that NYT is on mission. They will twist their facts their make their point. It is amazing how they are computing earnings per employees to make their point. What about all those engineers who are working in Cupertino to innovate the product? They went to many years of college to get to where they are. Isn't it injustice to them that the retail guys who are either still in college or haven't finished any college to have them compare against their engineer. By the way, it i bogus about some guy at retail store selling quarter million of goods at Apple. This guys are not on commission. And what did he meant he sold that - Again, NYT is taking things out of context. And, comparison against Lulemon ? WTF ? Why aren't they comparing against the next largest market cap company - ExxonMobil? I wonder what is their earnings per employees and how close do they pay their guys working out on the rigs and other dangerous places?
Last but not least - They just increased the salary of their retail workers unto 25%. This is unheard of - Especially in such hard time like right now - I would like to hear such raises to people who are working out there. I bet some of the people are even getting inflation adjustment raises.
NYT - Go suck an egg and report some real news!
Gruber made a funny comment to that effect tonight.
I wonder when NYT will write an article comparing how fuel is spent each year at a gas station and to much the attendant behind the register gets paid per hour.
Wow! I am amazed by your post. Tell me something, if you know so much about media stuff - Do all stories make it into paper? I am sure certain story don't make it. Okay! let's say I will give you that maybe NYT was working on this story for some time, Let's say I will give you 3 weeks. Apple got the smell of the story and they get scared and expedited their announcement before the story came out. Do you think companies makes such large increases as much as 25% over night? Do you think they started looking into this when they found out NYT was looking into this matter some 3 weeks ago? I don't understand how people come to conclusion that a largest market cap company in the world is run by some stupid executives who makes random decisions.
Bottom line - NYT will do everything, even look stupid, to generate some buzz around.
If the story is true, score one for Browett.
I'll be the first to admit I did not have high hopes for Browett, given all the bad press about Dixon's and his operations (i.e. cost-cutting) background.
But if the recent wage hike announcement is his doing, then I am pleasantly surprised.
As for all you guys pathetically defending poor wages for hard work, in America or in China, understand that your approach is not only inhuman and demoralizing, but bad economics. Disgruntled employees have a million ways to cause economic damage, through action, or inaction, and once that kind of culture sets in it is very hard to change. In the long run, "winner takes all" is a sure fire formula for "everybody loses". A little generosity can go a long way. Even Browett gets it. So should you.
I'm not saying that everything that Apple does is perfect or good , However a 2 sided picture From NYT would be more realistic rather than skipping Apples good points.
It's already obvious that NYT & APPLE are not on good media terms and this article is not going to make anything better
I am ashamed to be in company with so many cold hearted, mean spirited people on these forums. I thought that Apple fans were different. You sound like a bunch of Islamic fundamentalists. I guess when a brand gets to become so big, it has to absorb even bottom feeders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4
Seems as though the NYT is on a roll on finding Gloom and Domm related to Apple products a d it's practices
I'm not saying that everything that Apple does is perfect or good , However a 2 sided picture From NYT would be more realistic rather than skipping Apples good points.
It's already obvious that NYT & APPLE are not on good media terms and this article is not going to make anything better
Are you kidding?? Have you ever read ANY NYT article by David Pogue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Should they pay Fedex more than the going rate for shipping because Apple has lots of money?
They could stop using (at least here in Europe) UPS, which sucks tremendously. On four Apple deliveries in two years, all by UPS, none arrived at my home on time and without me having to call UPS and enquire after a week
You aren't presuming that Pogue reflects the Times editorial policy are you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Funny how Apple is doing so horribly at Chinese work conditions after having just drastically improved Chinese work conditions.
Funny how Apple is putting out so much pollution after having just building the green energy plant for its servers.
Funny how Apple is short-changing its retail employees after having just drastically increased pay for retail employees.
Why can't we get some overseeing body to shut down these idiots in the media? That wouldn't be stifling free speech. It would be stifling lies.
Here in the UK, Apple store employees earn more than any other electronics retailer. Those people on the shop floor at PC World and Comet are on or just above minimum wage.
Besides, these people aren't exactly curing cancer as well, they're selling electronics to people. I'd say $25k a year is pretty decent when I'm only earning £16k as a web developer right now.