Sorry Apple, but Yelp check-ins and some nifty 3d fly-overs in a handful of locations won't be sufficient to induce me to use an inferior map product. Like Microsoft with Bing Search, it will take countless years of heavy investment with substantial improvements to minimally approach the Google map standard. If the reason for doing maps is to give Google the middle finger over Android, it's probably not a good foundation for building a great product.
Generally speaking, Apple wants total control over the user experience. Maps is just one part of the location-based services.
Apple really does need to have their own mapping service to provide deep integration for location-based services, things like geotagging, social network integration, compatibility to Siri, etc.
In the same way, Apple acquired Siri because a third-party voice recognition assistant doesn't provide the deep hooks to your address book, calendar, reminders/alerts, and other system services.
You should be pleasantly surprised. Upon reading your remark I did some tests for London, England.
The following queries were handled with aplomb:
A couple of notes. I needed to say "London, England" as there is a city relatively near my current location sharing the name.
Me: "I am looking for McDonald's in London, England."
Siri: "Here are 15 McDonald's in London, England."
Me: "Show me Big Ben in London, England."
Siri: "Here is Big Ben in London, England."
Me: "I would like a great Italian restaurant in London, England"
Siri: "Here are 15 Italian restaurants in London, England"
Me: "Show me landmarks in Manchester, England."
Siri: "This historic site in in Manchester, England."
Me: "Show me gas stations in Glasgow, Scotland."
Siri: "I found six gas stations ... five of them are in Glasgow, Scotland."
I hope it will be able to list more than 15 Italian restaurants in London by the time it goes live. There surely must be at least 1500 Italian restaurants there. And ditto gas stations in Glasgow. Try something like italian restaurants in Harrow, London, England. I have no idea how many there are but I bet half a dozen. Harrow is a small village in North London.
I'm curious how you managed to reach the conclusion that it's an inferior product. It won't even be released for months, so you're using a beta, at best - and maybe not even that.
So please be specific. In exactly what way is the Apple Maps app inferior to Google's solution and how many people will even notice the difference?
I'll just point you to this article and you can make up your own mind:
Sorry Apple, but Yelp check-ins and some nifty 3d fly-overs in a handful of locations won't be sufficient to induce me to use an inferior map product. Like Microsoft with Bing Search, it will take countless years of heavy investment with substantial improvements to minimally approach the Google map standard. If the reason for doing maps is to give Google the middle finger over Android, it's probably not a good foundation for building a great product.
Agree. I want transit schedules, and detailed maps with sidewalks and trails. I can't see having any interest in "flyovers", nor will I ever want to "check in" via Yelp. (If I ever do, then to paraphrase xkcd, you have authorization to kill me on sight.)
With all this Yelp and FB integration, I *really* hope Apple isn't trying to turn the iPhone into a social media device. My impression -- from living in and commuting by Caltrain in Silicon Valley, and by the various comments on this forum and others -- is that that's the last thing most iPhone users want.
I've also found Maps has a hard time understand that when I type in something, I am more than likely searching for something near by. Unless I put the city and state in the search bar, Maps often times looks across the globe for my waypoint.
This is a handy feature of Google Maps, once you know how to use it, and hopefully Apple can mirror the process. You can pull up any location in Google Maps and then search, and the results will be in your map window, not necessarily where you are at that time (or worse, apparently, anywhere over the globe).
Note to fanboys: I'm not saying Apple's Maps *doesn't* have this, and I'm not slamming Apple, etc. I'm just saying, Yes this is a handy feature, I don't want to have to type in a city and state every time, and so it will be a disappointment if Apple Maps doesn't mimic this ability.
Think of the ability to call up a map showing areas delimited by, say:
-- household income
-- own or rent
-- political affiliation
-- ethnicity
-- average age
-- highest school level attained
-- number of cars
-- number of children
-- union affiliation
-- number and type of computers
-- number and type of phones
-- number and type of tablets
...and a lot more.
[...]
Which all is cool and neat. And as someone who loves maps (antique ones are the primary mode of home decor), that's great.
BUT, I'm willing to wager that somewhere above 99.95% of Maps users have zero interest in this. They want directions to a restaurant, or to find the nearest Home Depot, or to see exactly how far that potential rental is from the subway. They aren't sitting around, pining for the ability to pull up multi-layer demographic maps.
Agree. I want transit schedules, and detailed maps with sidewalks and trails. I can't see having any interest in "flyovers", nor will I ever want to "check in" via Yelp. (If I ever do, then to paraphrase xkcd, you have authorization to kill me on sight.)
With all this Yelp and FB integration, I *really* hope Apple isn't trying to turn the iPhone into a social media device. My impression -- from living in and commuting by Caltrain in Silicon Valley, and by the various comments on this forum and others -- is that that's the last thing most iPhone users want.
I will never 'check in' either. Funny, but the social aspect of the buying experience was a good thing for a while. I used to check user reviews and sometimes I still do, but I have become cynical. For the most part I believe user reviews are fake (marketing). My rule of thumb is the longer the review the more likely it is to be fake. I just don't trust user comments, or Facebook 'likes'. I am also suspicious of listings by popularity because the more popular something gets the more other people follow suit for that very reason alone.
Generally speaking curated choices are better. That way I get to choose a few 'curators' I trust and can follow their advice.
If Apple gets the 'Maps as a Platform' right I expect to see many plug-ins that will display local transit schedules and maps with sidewalks and trials.
The local search database is reasonably large but does need more businesses. In fact, according to Bloomberg, Apple Maps may already have more business listings than Google.
When performing search, my searches are typically hyper local. If, for example, I ask for a McDonald's in London I receive results for a nearby city named London rather than London, England. Of course, if you are viewing London, England in Maps then perform a typed search for McDonalds you will see McDonald's in London, England. Additionally, the results window shows a definite preference for locations in your contacts. The more information you provide search the better the search results will be. If you know you are looking for a location that is in a specific (but not very nearby) city then include the name of the city in your search and results will be vastly improved.
Most things with the app have been okay. The other day I was looking for a UPS store near my house, nowhere to be found on iOS 6 Maps. I knew it was there, cause I've been there before. Had to grab my business partners iPhone 4 with iOS 5 to get the directions up.
My brand new business happens to be listed, but that's because I listed it with Yelp and Google. If I hadn't registered with Yelp, I'd be nowhere to be found. Hopefully business owners are aware and make the proper changes to get their business more visible.
Which all is cool and neat. And as someone who loves maps (antique ones are the primary mode of home decor), that's great.
BUT, I'm willing to wager that somewhere above 99.95% of Maps users have zero interest in this. They want directions to a restaurant, or to find the nearest Home Depot, or to see exactly how far that potential rental is from the subway. They aren't sitting around, pining for the ability to pull up multi-layer demographic maps.
Didn't mean to imply that the majority would use this capability...
But, if you think about it, Apple could offer "programmable" maps to the average users -- I can see social uses for overlaying data, images on top of maps...
For example: sending out custom party invitations showing "Sammy's House" (or Brenda's, or Chuey's) as the starting point, images of landmarks along the way, then an image and detailed inset of the destination. This could be generated from your contacts info and/or dynamic location data.
Edit 2: Here are a couple of videos -- not the greatest demos, but the give you an idea of the PushPin capabilities:
The same type of demographic mapping is being done by others too. They have a limited and special use audience of course, but if ya need it ya need it.
What part of "Granted, the app is still in beta, and there could be many more changes before the final version of iOS 6 is released," did you not understand?
Not to mention, of course, that lacking feature parity does not necessarily make it inferior.
Most things with the app have been okay. The other day I was looking for a UPS store near my house, nowhere to be found on iOS 6 Maps. I knew it was there, cause I've been there before. Had to grab my business partners iPhone 4 with iOS 5 to get the directions up.
My brand new business happens to be listed, but that's because I listed it with Yelp and Google. If I hadn't registered with Yelp, I'd be nowhere to be found. Hopefully business owners are aware and make the proper changes to get their business more visible.
There is a quick and easy feature within Maps to add a location if not found. I have already added two businesses, one which opened one week ago while the other business has no concept of business listings or search engine optimization.
For businesses I haven't found I simply used Safari for a Yahoo! search and click on the address on the location's website.
[quote name="MacBook Pro" url="/t/150894/apples-new-ios-6-maps-to-feature-built-in-yelp-check-ins#post_2133758"] You should be pleasantly surprised. Upon reading your remark I did some tests for London, England. The following queries were handled with aplomb: A couple of notes. I needed to say "London, England" as there is a city relatively near my current location sharing the name. Me: "I am looking for McDonald's in London, England." Siri: "Here are 15 McDonald's in London, England." Me: "Show me Big Ben in London, England." Siri: "Here is Big Ben in London, England." Me: "I would like a great Italian restaurant in London, England" Siri: "Here are 15 Italian restaurants in London, England"
A couple of notes. I needed to say "London, England" as there is a city relatively near my current location sharing the name.[/Quote]
You don't need to keep saying "London, England". After the first time, it will use London, England as a reference. "[B]Show me Big Ben[/B]" & " [B]I would like a great Italian restaurant[/B]" will return hits in London, England. This is how it currently works also.
What part of "Granted, the app is still in beta, and there could be many more changes before the final version of iOS 6 is released," did you not understand?
Not to mention, of course, that lacking feature parity does not necessarily make it inferior.
So it's clear that you're simply trolling.
So you're telling me that the detail level in this phonearena.com side-by-side example will somehow be equalized by the end of the beta? If not, how is that I'm 'trolling' to say that I'm going to use the better map product as I see in terms of cartographic detail? I'll continue to use Google Maps.
If I could remember correctly from the WWDC presentation, Apple map will only show details info when user zoom in the map so not to clutter the screen - the narrower the view, the more details it will show. As the screenshot on that website is not zoom-able (beyond the zoom into the slide itself), the comparison is mute. I hope and I'm sure Apple will, their implementations, in term of usability (rather than info or return results - that goes with age) would be much better and easier to use. Just wait and see and reserve your judgement for the time being.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbyrn
Sorry Apple, but Yelp check-ins and some nifty 3d fly-overs in a handful of locations won't be sufficient to induce me to use an inferior map product. Like Microsoft with Bing Search, it will take countless years of heavy investment with substantial improvements to minimally approach the Google map standard. If the reason for doing maps is to give Google the middle finger over Android, it's probably not a good foundation for building a great product.
Generally speaking, Apple wants total control over the user experience. Maps is just one part of the location-based services.
Apple really does need to have their own mapping service to provide deep integration for location-based services, things like geotagging, social network integration, compatibility to Siri, etc.
In the same way, Apple acquired Siri because a third-party voice recognition assistant doesn't provide the deep hooks to your address book, calendar, reminders/alerts, and other system services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
You should be pleasantly surprised. Upon reading your remark I did some tests for London, England.
The following queries were handled with aplomb:
A couple of notes. I needed to say "London, England" as there is a city relatively near my current location sharing the name.
Me: "I am looking for McDonald's in London, England."
Siri: "Here are 15 McDonald's in London, England."
Me: "Show me Big Ben in London, England."
Siri: "Here is Big Ben in London, England."
Me: "I would like a great Italian restaurant in London, England"
Siri: "Here are 15 Italian restaurants in London, England"
Me: "Show me landmarks in Manchester, England."
Siri: "This historic site in in Manchester, England."
Me: "Show me gas stations in Glasgow, Scotland."
Siri: "I found six gas stations ... five of them are in Glasgow, Scotland."
I hope it will be able to list more than 15 Italian restaurants in London by the time it goes live. There surely must be at least 1500 Italian restaurants there. And ditto gas stations in Glasgow. Try something like italian restaurants in Harrow, London, England. I have no idea how many there are but I bet half a dozen. Harrow is a small village in North London.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool
Not as active as foursquare which is integrated with Google maps.
Nuh-uh, only on mobile, and only because it's the iOS default. Expect an easy transition.
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/030312-foursquare-google-maps-256912.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
Nuh-uh, only on mobile, and only because it's the iOS default. Expect an easy transition.
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/030312-foursquare-google-maps-256912.html
Since I am not walking around with my PC under my arm for directions, I am not sure what your point is?
I'll just point you to this article and you can make up your own mind:
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apples-iOS-6-beta-Maps-app-compared-to-Google-Maps_id31266#1-
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbyrn
Sorry Apple, but Yelp check-ins and some nifty 3d fly-overs in a handful of locations won't be sufficient to induce me to use an inferior map product. Like Microsoft with Bing Search, it will take countless years of heavy investment with substantial improvements to minimally approach the Google map standard. If the reason for doing maps is to give Google the middle finger over Android, it's probably not a good foundation for building a great product.
Agree. I want transit schedules, and detailed maps with sidewalks and trails. I can't see having any interest in "flyovers", nor will I ever want to "check in" via Yelp. (If I ever do, then to paraphrase xkcd, you have authorization to kill me on sight.)
With all this Yelp and FB integration, I *really* hope Apple isn't trying to turn the iPhone into a social media device. My impression -- from living in and commuting by Caltrain in Silicon Valley, and by the various comments on this forum and others -- is that that's the last thing most iPhone users want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundvision
I've also found Maps has a hard time understand that when I type in something, I am more than likely searching for something near by. Unless I put the city and state in the search bar, Maps often times looks across the globe for my waypoint.
This is a handy feature of Google Maps, once you know how to use it, and hopefully Apple can mirror the process. You can pull up any location in Google Maps and then search, and the results will be in your map window, not necessarily where you are at that time (or worse, apparently, anywhere over the globe).
Note to fanboys: I'm not saying Apple's Maps *doesn't* have this, and I'm not slamming Apple, etc. I'm just saying, Yes this is a handy feature, I don't want to have to type in a city and state every time, and so it will be a disappointment if Apple Maps doesn't mimic this ability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
[...]
Think of the ability to call up a map showing areas delimited by, say:
-- household income
-- own or rent
-- political affiliation
-- ethnicity
-- average age
-- highest school level attained
-- number of cars
-- number of children
-- union affiliation
-- number and type of computers
-- number and type of phones
-- number and type of tablets
[...]...and a lot more.
Which all is cool and neat. And as someone who loves maps (antique ones are the primary mode of home decor), that's great.
BUT, I'm willing to wager that somewhere above 99.95% of Maps users have zero interest in this. They want directions to a restaurant, or to find the nearest Home Depot, or to see exactly how far that potential rental is from the subway. They aren't sitting around, pining for the ability to pull up multi-layer demographic maps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff
Agree. I want transit schedules, and detailed maps with sidewalks and trails. I can't see having any interest in "flyovers", nor will I ever want to "check in" via Yelp. (If I ever do, then to paraphrase xkcd, you have authorization to kill me on sight.)
With all this Yelp and FB integration, I *really* hope Apple isn't trying to turn the iPhone into a social media device. My impression -- from living in and commuting by Caltrain in Silicon Valley, and by the various comments on this forum and others -- is that that's the last thing most iPhone users want.
I will never 'check in' either. Funny, but the social aspect of the buying experience was a good thing for a while. I used to check user reviews and sometimes I still do, but I have become cynical. For the most part I believe user reviews are fake (marketing). My rule of thumb is the longer the review the more likely it is to be fake. I just don't trust user comments, or Facebook 'likes'. I am also suspicious of listings by popularity because the more popular something gets the more other people follow suit for that very reason alone.
Generally speaking curated choices are better. That way I get to choose a few 'curators' I trust and can follow their advice.
If Apple gets the 'Maps as a Platform' right I expect to see many plug-ins that will display local transit schedules and maps with sidewalks and trials.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Interesting.
My experience is quite the opposite.
The local search database is reasonably large but does need more businesses. In fact, according to Bloomberg, Apple Maps may already have more business listings than Google.
When performing search, my searches are typically hyper local. If, for example, I ask for a McDonald's in London I receive results for a nearby city named London rather than London, England. Of course, if you are viewing London, England in Maps then perform a typed search for McDonalds you will see McDonald's in London, England. Additionally, the results window shows a definite preference for locations in your contacts. The more information you provide search the better the search results will be. If you know you are looking for a location that is in a specific (but not very nearby) city then include the name of the city in your search and results will be vastly improved.
Most things with the app have been okay. The other day I was looking for a UPS store near my house, nowhere to be found on iOS 6 Maps. I knew it was there, cause I've been there before. Had to grab my business partners iPhone 4 with iOS 5 to get the directions up.
My brand new business happens to be listed, but that's because I listed it with Yelp and Google. If I hadn't registered with Yelp, I'd be nowhere to be found. Hopefully business owners are aware and make the proper changes to get their business more visible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff
Which all is cool and neat. And as someone who loves maps (antique ones are the primary mode of home decor), that's great.
BUT, I'm willing to wager that somewhere above 99.95% of Maps users have zero interest in this. They want directions to a restaurant, or to find the nearest Home Depot, or to see exactly how far that potential rental is from the subway. They aren't sitting around, pining for the ability to pull up multi-layer demographic maps.
Didn't mean to imply that the majority would use this capability...
But, if you think about it, Apple could offer "programmable" maps to the average users -- I can see social uses for overlaying data, images on top of maps...
For example: sending out custom party invitations showing "Sammy's House" (or Brenda's, or Chuey's) as the starting point, images of landmarks along the way, then an image and detailed inset of the destination. This could be generated from your contacts info and/or dynamic location data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Apple's mapping solution has much greater potential than just using maps for directions or 3D Flyovers.
When Apple purchased PlaceBase (including PushPin), they got:
1) Access to map data
2) Mapping algorithms
3) Access to detailed demographic data
4) A Scripting Language that allows you to overlay demographics on maps
This will enable some virtual reality apps -- but much much more...
Think of the ability to call up a map showing areas delimited by, say:
-- household income
-- own or rent
-- political affiliation
-- ethnicity
-- average age
-- highest school level attained
-- number of cars
-- number of children
-- union affiliation
-- number and type of computers
-- number and type of phones
-- number and type of tablets
...and a lot more.
Think of how marketing, advertising and political organizations could use this to plan and execute a campaign.
I can envision this capability being incorporated into Pages, Numbers and Keynote.
There used to be some web sites with examples and some videos -- but it look like they've been taken down.
Search for placebase or pushpin.
Edit: Here's a site where you can dynamically create some demographic maps -- the site uses the PlaceBase PushPin software.
http://www.policymap.com/maps
Edit 2: Here are a couple of videos -- not the greatest demos, but the give you an idea of the PushPin capabilities:
The same type of demographic mapping is being done by others too. They have a limited and special use audience of course, but if ya need it ya need it.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=109652310960077771414.0000011241c4105bf03ca
What part of "Granted, the app is still in beta, and there could be many more changes before the final version of iOS 6 is released," did you not understand?
Not to mention, of course, that lacking feature parity does not necessarily make it inferior.
So it's clear that you're simply trolling.
There is a quick and easy feature within Maps to add a location if not found. I have already added two businesses, one which opened one week ago while the other business has no concept of business listings or search engine optimization.
For businesses I haven't found I simply used Safari for a Yahoo! search and click on the address on the location's website.
You should be pleasantly surprised. Upon reading your remark I did some tests for London, England.
The following queries were handled with aplomb:
A couple of notes. I needed to say "London, England" as there is a city relatively near my current location sharing the name.
Me: "I am looking for McDonald's in London, England."
Siri: "Here are 15 McDonald's in London, England."
Me: "Show me Big Ben in London, England."
Siri: "Here is Big Ben in London, England."
Me: "I would like a great Italian restaurant in London, England"
Siri: "Here are 15 Italian restaurants in London, England"
A couple of notes. I needed to say "London, England" as there is a
city relatively near my current location sharing the name.[/Quote]
You don't need to keep saying "London, England".
After the first time, it will use London, England as a reference. "[B]Show me Big Ben[/B]" & " [B]I would like a great Italian restaurant[/B]" will return hits in London, England.
This is how it currently works also.
So you're telling me that the detail level in this phonearena.com side-by-side example will somehow be equalized by the end of the beta? If not, how is that I'm 'trolling' to say that I'm going to use the better map product as I see in terms of cartographic detail? I'll continue to use Google Maps.
No, he's saying your comparing a beta to a moderately finished product, which is fallacy in and of itself.
Forgot Apple's way's, slap beta on it, release it and all is good with all it's short comings and failures. Now, that is a fallacy in and of itself.
I'll just point you to this article and you can make up your own mind:
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apples-iOS-6-beta-Maps-app-compared-to-Google-Maps_id31266#1-
As the screenshot on that website is not zoom-able (beyond the zoom into the slide itself), the comparison is mute. I hope and I'm sure Apple will, their implementations, in term of usability (rather than info or return results - that goes with age) would be much better and easier to use. Just wait and see and reserve your judgement for the time being.