The price estimate for a "surface table" as the title implies are incorrect making the entire article flawed. Microsoft is the OEM therefore why would they have to pay $90 for their own software. So add $90 of profit to each of those estimates to get a more accurate picture.
Tomorrow Apple will begin talking about an iPad pro that runs OSX and all applications that run on OSX. It will be available in the first calendar quarter of 2013. They don't have an actual running sample just yet but Apple is promising that it will run 3 times faster than any current laptop and the screen will magically grow to 27" at the press of a button.
Oh wait... sorry... that was just a day dream... eerily similar to the one Ballmer had last week.
If you're going to buy a Surface Pro for the backwards compatibility with traditional Windows software, than you need to have a keyboard, mouse/trackpad, and more power for the Intel chip. So, why not buy an ultrabook or notebook, and dispense with this kitschy click in the keyboard / kickstand contraption? I guess the MS touts are desperate to buy into this Ballmer dog and pony show.
Because you can have a device that acts like a tablet and a desktop/laptop. Most people who buy a Surface Pro and plan on using it as a desktop as well (me) already have a keyboard, mouse and monitor. Really no different than someone who buys a Mac Mini....already owning that extras.
Still, Whitmore believes Surface models running Windows 8 are more likely to find success because they offer backwards compatibility with traditional Windows software, like full support for Microsoft Office.
There is an error here. All Surface tablets will be running Windows 8, but not all will be fully backwards compatible. I suggest the author changes the sentence to only refer to Windows 8 x86 tablets.
That chart states MS would have to include $90 for the OS in a surface tablet yet stating Apple doesn't have to for the iPad. Why? It is MS's baby, as the iPad is Apple's, so that info is inaccurate. Also, the line that includes "other" tacks on another $12 with no explanation.
Until this data is updated correctly, it is totally invalid.
Yeah, there is a cost for the OS on the iPad side as well. A lot of this cost is shared with the iPhone/iPod touch/Apple TV development. Even ignoring these, the iPad is selling around 40 million devices a year. How much is Apple spending on iOS development? $100m/yr? $400m/yr? If the latter, then we're talking $10/device. Add in the iPhones, etc, and the cost is practically negligible.
Windows RT is a special build that will only be used on Windows RT tablets. However a lot of technology is shared with Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8. Microsoft has probably spent a few hundred million dollars on the combined development of Windows 8/RT/WP8, if not billions. How many devices will they sell? Let's assume a massive 10 million. And then we have Office RT on top. $90/device is probably not a bad estimate of development costs for the platform.
Therefore it's quite fair to have $0 in the Apple column, and $90 in the Microsoft column. Maybe the Apple column should be $2-$5...
That chart states MS would have to include $90 for the OS in a surface tablet yet stating Apple doesn't have to for the iPad. Why? It is MS's baby, as the iPad is Apple's, so that info is inaccurate. Also, the line that includes "other" tacks on another $12 with no explanation.
Until this data is updated correctly, it is totally invalid.
Was just about to point that out. Makes no sense. My assumption is that a similar spec'd tablet like surface made by Dell, HP, ASUS etc would cost that much but even still, it's just guessing.
Microsoft is creating a very nice eco system, if they get a long term vision and not starting to make the windows 8 app signature bullshit and so on, maybe they have a chance, right now Android is the King, Apple is slowly loosing to Google, and the new OS Mountain Lion don't give much to already called Mac OS X Vista - Lion.
About the prices Microsoft has an advantage here, since Apple only knows expensive word, and Microsoft is know to Make 10 versions of the "same" operating system, so that will be the same with tablets, since Nokia will sell Windows 8 Tablets!!
I do think we are always thinking Apple is the best and greatest, but if we see the last numbers, stock markets and iPhones/Macs sell, things are not looking so good as once did.
I doubt you can substantiate anything you said.
Microsoft EcoSystem vs Apple Ecosystem - Fiction vs Reality
Apple losing to Google - In what reality are you speaking? Surely not the reality of what is actually happening in the market.
Pricing - Apple prices do not seem to affect any sales. They seem to set record sales quarter after quarter. ($$$ and quantity)
Microsoft has yet to prove themselves in this market so save some cake for later.
The Surface is vapor at this point, so there is no way to answer any questions about it. If someone wants a Windows Tablet/laptop hybrid today they can buy a Lenovo X230t price , but at a price of around $1200-1600 for the Lenovo, the Macbook Air is better and a better buy. Windows tablets have been around for a decade and no one buys them. Why would anyone expect anything different with this new, non-existent version? Is anyone buying Ultrabooks? Why can't MSFT come up with something unique rather than just a clone of an Apple product?
BS. Most people I know with who use Windows have high-end systems (both laptops and desktops). If you want to state that people who don't want to spend a lot of money buy low-cost PCs, that is fine, but your blanket statement is worthless. So are all people who buy Mac Minis for the most part cheap?
Just because you know a few people who might have high end systems doesn't change the statistics. The vast majority of people using Windows are on crap machines. Apple owns the high end consumer market.
Microsoft is creating a very nice eco system, if they get a long term vision and not starting to make the windows 8 app signature bullshit and so on, maybe they have a chance, right now Android is the King, Apple is slowly loosing to Google, and the new OS Mountain Lion don't give much to already called Mac OS X Vista - Lion.
About the prices Microsoft has an advantage here, since Apple only knows expensive word, and Microsoft is know to Make 10 versions of the "same" operating system, so that will be the same with tablets, since Nokia will sell Windows 8 Tablets!!
I do think we are always thinking Apple is the best and greatest, but if we see the last numbers, stock markets and iPhones/Macs sell, things are not looking so good as once did.
Can you even use that thing on your lap like a regular laptop?
Whatcha gonna do, put the kickstand in between your knees, while you're typing on that sub standard and grotesquely colored keyboard? It looks like it is meant to only be used on a table.
That chart states MS would have to include $90 for the OS in a surface tablet yet stating Apple doesn't have to for the iPad. Why? It is MS's baby, as the iPad is Apple's, so that info is inaccurate. Also, the line that includes "other" tacks on another $12 with no explanation.
Until this data is updated correctly, it is totally invalid.
Was just about to point that out. Makes no sense. My assumption is that a similar spec'd tablet like surface made by Dell, HP, ASUS etc would cost that much but even still, it's just guessing.
The chart isn't Microsoft's costs, it's 3rd party OEM costs. Third party manufacturers will have to pay MS a licensing fee.
Things we don't know about the Surface: Does the intel version of the Surface have an optical drive? If not, how would you existing programs on it. Will you have to buy it again from the Metro Appstore? Will it be limited to 64GB as well? How can you have a full-fledge PC in this day and age with 64GB? What's the battery life?
and the new OS Mountain Lion don't give much to already called Mac OS X Vista - Lion.
I wanted to pretend you hit a milestone for trolling, but I haven't been keeping track of the number of trolls.
…Nokia will sell Windows 8 Tablets!!
Nokia will be bankrupt before that happens.
…if we see the last numbers, stock markets and iPhones/Macs sell, things are not looking so good as once did.
Record revenue, record profits, and record sales sure are a sign of bad times ahead. I guess you're one of those analysts that keeps saying "sell" for Apple.
Can you even use that thing on your lap like a regular laptop?
Whatcha gonna do, put the kickstand in between your knees, while you're typing on that sub standard and grotesquely colored keyboard? It looks like it is meant to only be used on a table.
The market is now wide open to develop an holder for the Pro version to snap into that makes it resemble an regular laptop.
The other part of the analysis that they are leaving out, besides the investment made in apps, as all the hardware investment people have made as well. There are so many Idevice accessory you can buy on the market, not that anyone really needs most of them but it is a huge market and people have lots of this stuff. In order for them to switch they will have to give it and maybe buy a replacement product if it even exist. I know people who bought Ipod and iphone then turned around and bought a mac as an idevice accessory. Now of these product from M$ or Android have this level of support nor do they work well with all the Macs at people homes.
These companies have a lot to over come. M$ should know this when they had the dominate position, even apple has not crack the M$ dominate position they have in the PC space. Humans are creatures of habit so until something completely new comes along to disrupt apples space they are screwed to have minor role in all of this.
Comments
I'm looking for a tablet PC that can do more.
I've held off on a laptop, and the Surface Pro looks about right. I've decided to wait, rather than getting a 2200 MBP w. Retina, or an iPad.
The price estimate for a "surface table" as the title implies are incorrect making the entire article flawed. Microsoft is the OEM therefore why would they have to pay $90 for their own software. So add $90 of profit to each of those estimates to get a more accurate picture.
I'm confused. Analysts are able to think, and come to logical conclusions ?
Tomorrow Apple will begin talking about an iPad pro that runs OSX and all applications that run on OSX. It will be available in the first calendar quarter of 2013. They don't have an actual running sample just yet but Apple is promising that it will run 3 times faster than any current laptop and the screen will magically grow to 27" at the press of a button.
Oh wait... sorry... that was just a day dream... eerily similar to the one Ballmer had last week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbyrn
If you're going to buy a Surface Pro for the backwards compatibility with traditional Windows software, than you need to have a keyboard, mouse/trackpad, and more power for the Intel chip. So, why not buy an ultrabook or notebook, and dispense with this kitschy click in the keyboard / kickstand contraption? I guess the MS touts are desperate to buy into this Ballmer dog and pony show.
Because you can have a device that acts like a tablet and a desktop/laptop. Most people who buy a Surface Pro and plan on using it as a desktop as well (me) already have a keyboard, mouse and monitor. Really no different than someone who buys a Mac Mini....already owning that extras.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Still, Whitmore believes Surface models running Windows 8 are more likely to find success because they offer backwards compatibility with traditional Windows software, like full support for Microsoft Office.
There is an error here. All Surface tablets will be running Windows 8, but not all will be fully backwards compatible. I suggest the author changes the sentence to only refer to Windows 8 x86 tablets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
That chart states MS would have to include $90 for the OS in a surface tablet yet stating Apple doesn't have to for the iPad. Why? It is MS's baby, as the iPad is Apple's, so that info is inaccurate. Also, the line that includes "other" tacks on another $12 with no explanation.
Until this data is updated correctly, it is totally invalid.
Yeah, there is a cost for the OS on the iPad side as well. A lot of this cost is shared with the iPhone/iPod touch/Apple TV development. Even ignoring these, the iPad is selling around 40 million devices a year. How much is Apple spending on iOS development? $100m/yr? $400m/yr? If the latter, then we're talking $10/device. Add in the iPhones, etc, and the cost is practically negligible.
Windows RT is a special build that will only be used on Windows RT tablets. However a lot of technology is shared with Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8. Microsoft has probably spent a few hundred million dollars on the combined development of Windows 8/RT/WP8, if not billions. How many devices will they sell? Let's assume a massive 10 million. And then we have Office RT on top. $90/device is probably not a bad estimate of development costs for the platform.
Therefore it's quite fair to have $0 in the Apple column, and $90 in the Microsoft column. Maybe the Apple column should be $2-$5...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
That chart states MS would have to include $90 for the OS in a surface tablet yet stating Apple doesn't have to for the iPad. Why? It is MS's baby, as the iPad is Apple's, so that info is inaccurate. Also, the line that includes "other" tacks on another $12 with no explanation.
Until this data is updated correctly, it is totally invalid.
Was just about to point that out. Makes no sense. My assumption is that a similar spec'd tablet like surface made by Dell, HP, ASUS etc would cost that much but even still, it's just guessing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltWater
Microsoft is creating a very nice eco system, if they get a long term vision and not starting to make the windows 8 app signature bullshit and so on, maybe they have a chance, right now Android is the King, Apple is slowly loosing to Google, and the new OS Mountain Lion don't give much to already called Mac OS X Vista - Lion.
About the prices Microsoft has an advantage here, since Apple only knows expensive word, and Microsoft is know to Make 10 versions of the "same" operating system, so that will be the same with tablets, since Nokia will sell Windows 8 Tablets!!
I do think we are always thinking Apple is the best and greatest, but if we see the last numbers, stock markets and iPhones/Macs sell, things are not looking so good as once did.
I doubt you can substantiate anything you said.
Microsoft EcoSystem vs Apple Ecosystem - Fiction vs Reality
Apple losing to Google - In what reality are you speaking? Surely not the reality of what is actually happening in the market.
Pricing - Apple prices do not seem to affect any sales. They seem to set record sales quarter after quarter. ($$$ and quantity)
Microsoft has yet to prove themselves in this market so save some cake for later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Do they serve cake in your dimension?
I could really go for some alternate reality cheesecake. Before I wake up.
+++ LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
BS. Most people I know with who use Windows have high-end systems (both laptops and desktops). If you want to state that people who don't want to spend a lot of money buy low-cost PCs, that is fine, but your blanket statement is worthless. So are all people who buy Mac Minis for the most part cheap?
Just because you know a few people who might have high end systems doesn't change the statistics. The vast majority of people using Windows are on crap machines. Apple owns the high end consumer market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltWater
Microsoft is creating a very nice eco system, if they get a long term vision and not starting to make the windows 8 app signature bullshit and so on, maybe they have a chance, right now Android is the King, Apple is slowly loosing to Google, and the new OS Mountain Lion don't give much to already called Mac OS X Vista - Lion.
About the prices Microsoft has an advantage here, since Apple only knows expensive word, and Microsoft is know to Make 10 versions of the "same" operating system, so that will be the same with tablets, since Nokia will sell Windows 8 Tablets!!
I do think we are always thinking Apple is the best and greatest, but if we see the last numbers, stock markets and iPhones/Macs sell, things are not looking so good as once did.
Android is the King? What planet do you live on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purge
Can you even use that thing on your lap like a regular laptop?
Whatcha gonna do, put the kickstand in between your knees, while you're typing on that sub standard and grotesquely colored keyboard? It looks like it is meant to only be used on a table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
That chart states MS would have to include $90 for the OS in a surface tablet yet stating Apple doesn't have to for the iPad. Why? It is MS's baby, as the iPad is Apple's, so that info is inaccurate. Also, the line that includes "other" tacks on another $12 with no explanation.
Until this data is updated correctly, it is totally invalid.
Was just about to point that out. Makes no sense. My assumption is that a similar spec'd tablet like surface made by Dell, HP, ASUS etc would cost that much but even still, it's just guessing.
The chart isn't Microsoft's costs, it's 3rd party OEM costs. Third party manufacturers will have to pay MS a licensing fee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Things we don't know about the Surface: Does the intel version of the Surface have an optical drive? If not, how would you existing programs on it. Will you have to buy it again from the Metro Appstore? Will it be limited to 64GB as well? How can you have a full-fledge PC in this day and age with 64GB? What's the battery life?
There are too many unanswered questions.
...and a lot of unquestioned answers
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpriceslc
Android is the King? What planet do you live on?
Android is indeed the king. Android is the king of failed tablets, mega flops and firesales. Android is also the king of malware and fragmentation.
Loosing the hounds.
I wanted to pretend you hit a milestone for trolling, but I haven't been keeping track of the number of trolls.
Nokia will be bankrupt before that happens.
Record revenue, record profits, and record sales sure are a sign of bad times ahead. I guess you're one of those analysts that keeps saying "sell" for Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Can you even use that thing on your lap like a regular laptop?
Whatcha gonna do, put the kickstand in between your knees, while you're typing on that sub standard and grotesquely colored keyboard? It looks like it is meant to only be used on a table.
The market is now wide open to develop an holder for the Pro version to snap into that makes it resemble an regular laptop.
The other part of the analysis that they are leaving out, besides the investment made in apps, as all the hardware investment people have made as well. There are so many Idevice accessory you can buy on the market, not that anyone really needs most of them but it is a huge market and people have lots of this stuff. In order for them to switch they will have to give it and maybe buy a replacement product if it even exist. I know people who bought Ipod and iphone then turned around and bought a mac as an idevice accessory. Now of these product from M$ or Android have this level of support nor do they work well with all the Macs at people homes.
These companies have a lot to over come. M$ should know this when they had the dominate position, even apple has not crack the M$ dominate position they have in the PC space. Humans are creatures of habit so until something completely new comes along to disrupt apples space they are screwed to have minor role in all of this.