Apps. You have a Fire, you get access to a very limited amount of apps that only work on the fire and an older version, albeit modified version, of Android 2.3.
This is the exact reason why Apple's tight integration between HW & SW will win out over practically anything brought to market. While the other tablets need horsepower to drive the SW, translating into higher component costs, Apple optimizes the SW to the HW, and vice versa, which allows the user experience to be way better than anything else. This keeps the consumer happy and maximizes profits for Apple. The former makes me happy and extremely satisfied as a user and the latter makes me elated as a shareholder. A win-win for me.
He also believes Google's aggressive pricing could also spell trouble for Microsoft's recently unveiled Surface tablets, set to launch later this year.
If Microsoft prices its ARM-based Surface tablet above the $399 entry price of Apple's iPad 2, Wu thinks it would be a "disastrous move."
Well, now that iPad and Nexus 7 pricing has been explicitly announced, what are you waiting for, Ballmer?
Time to announce Surface pricing. Oh wait. Yeah, I see what you're doing there. You're trying to pretend that
you weren't waiting for Google to announce their pad and its price. So yeah, wait a week or two, then announce Surface pricing.
Need a little help? Here ya go: $399 for the ARM-based Surface. Because pricing it lower than last year's iPad would devalue it
in consumers' eyes. "Just another cheapo iPad copy," they'd think. Correctly. They've already seen PlayBooks in the $99
bargain bin. And $399 just might allow a razor-thin profit margin. Could actually be Microsoft's first hardware device to be profitable
from day 1 of sales. (Except for Microsoft's best hardware product ever: the Microsoft Keyboard.)
And don't go anywhere near $499. Because if you do, poor little Surface will be up against the Retina iPad.
Surface Pro pricing? Listen up, Ballmer. It's designed for Pro users, so you can charge them Sucker, er, Pro prices. Because
it's all tax deductible as a business expense. Just crank the base model pricing up to $999. You can do that because Ultrabooks failed.
The Ultrabook makers simply couldn't build a MacBook Air clone (that anyone actually wanted to actually buy) for $1000.
Now it's time to kill off the Ultrabook Initiative once and for all. Save that carbon footprint. Greenpeace might give you a medal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
... undercutting Apple's iPad could make it impossible for its third-party hardware partners to compete and remain profitable.
Compete? Nearly impossible. Remain profitable? Forget it.
Microsoft wants to charge third-party hardware partners $85 per copy of Windows RT. Google's "free but adspammy software" model could actually work here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
As for the Nexus 7, unveiled by Google on Wednesday, Wu's take is shared by Brian White of Topeka Capital Markets, who declared that the Nexus 7 is "just another Android-based tablet" that won't pose a threat to Apple's iPad.
Just another one for the pile. The huge, burning pile of iPad wannabes.
I'm not picking on you personally, but I keep seeing this sentiment expressed and it makes no sense at all to me.
The Surface pro is a convertible laptop more than it is a tablet and it does therefore have a (detachable, bluetooth) keyboard. The way people keep describing this as (paraphrased) "finally a tablet with a keyboard!" is just crazy IMO in that the Surface Pro "has a keyboard" in exactly the same sense that the iPad "has a keyboard" or any other tablet "has a keyboard."
One can argue about inclusion in the box or price, but practically every tablet, and certainly every convertible laptop, "has a keyboard" in this same sense.
We don't know how good the Surface Pro's keyboard is (or even if it really exists in fact), and everything we know about it seems to indicate it will actually be one of the worst keyboards out there.
In that light, it's really extra-specially ironic that the keyboard is being touted as the central feature of this POS.
Your comments don't make sense.
You can leave the keyboard at home and use it as a tablet. Or you can use the keyboard that comes with it. That's better for many people than the option of buying an external keyboard (along with buying and replacing batteries in your wireless iPad keyboard).
After watching the Surface debut and Google I/O announcements, I'm convinced neither has a clue how to beat Apple in the marketplace.
As for the Nexus 7 targeting the Surface, unless Microsoft was really going to try to aggressively undercut the iPad and price itself in the Kindle Fire range, that assumption makes zero sense. Meanwhile, Apple has locked up a lot of the suppliers in the industry and still has difficulty meeting current sales demands.
Besides Microsoft already ticking off OEMs by getting into the computer hardware business (ex. see Acer VP Exec's statements), now it looks like Google is doing the same (Building the Nexus was "torture" according to Asus CEO). That doesn't bode well, especially since Google hasn't even started to use Motorola to put out self-branded hardware; Samsung will appreciate it, I'm sure. If Google is looking to irritate its partners and drive them to competing platforms (such as by forking Android away from Google's official version and jettisoning Google services), they are well on their way.
Somewhere, Tim Cook must be looking at this train wreck shaking his head.
Here's the thing. Obviously at least the Intel version of the Microsoft Surface is aimed at the iPad market, with creation-type software and peripherals. However, if it's priced at >$899 then it'll likely lose out.
The RT version, however, will only run Metro apps (+Office) and so will likely turn out to be used a lot more for consumption (at least initially). Even if it's priced at $399 (and I think $499-599 is much more likely), I don't see it as competing well vs. the Fire and Nexus 7 due to their rock-bottom pricing.
I honestly don't see much of a win anywhere here for Microsoft since $999 for the "good" surface is the price of a MacBook Air or other Ultrabooks which seem much better suited for most business professional's needs.
I don't see the Google Nexus 7 competing at all with the Surface, really.
I disagree. I think the ARM version (Microsoft Surface for Windows RT) is the iPad competitor. The Intel version (Microsoft Surface for Windows 8) is being pushed as a competitor to UltraBooks - which are supposed to be priced somewhere between the iPad and Air. Personally, I see the Intel version as strictly oriented towards businesses. Its sole claim to fame is its ability to be managed with the same tools already in place for managing desktops (System Center, etc.). It's quite a bit larger, heavier and produces more heat. I can't imagine anybody buying the Intel version for personal use. Are you really going to buy an Intel version of a tablet, just so that you can still run all your legacy Windows apps? I can't imagine so. If you're buying a tablet, you're really buying into Metro. Otherwise, just get a laptop.
Other than very light content creation (Facebook pages, etc) which even Surface RT will be able to do, only a very tiny number of iPad users use it for serious content creation.
That would also accurately describe the vast majority of desktop and laptop PC users, to be quite honest.
Make no mistake about it, the Fandroid crowd sees this as the long awaited iPad killer. It IS about Apple and always has been. The Nexus 7 and the Surface are both aimed directly at the iPad no matter what some analysts says. The entire tech universe is about dethroning Apple using whatever means necessary.
Do people realize that the Nexus 7 could be a real threat to the iPod touch?
I think Google knows it cannot dethrone the iPad 3 any time soon, but it can eat up Apple's market share from the bottom up.
FOr $199 the Nexus 7 has the same 8GB memory as the iPod touch but offers an SD expansion.
It also has a much larger screen, and offers an IPS panel which is superior to the iPod's current display. And the Nexus has a quad-core CPU with Tegra 3 GPU, which at least on paper sound better than what the iPod touch offers for that price.
I am sure the casual gamer who might consider an iPod touch could be persuaded to go with a Nexus 7 instead. Why would people go for an iPod touch if they can have so much more for the same price?
This I think is also a reason why the Nexus does not come with an 3G/4G option.
It is intended to compete with the iPod, which does not offer that either.
These are very good points. Had not thought about that. I know my daughter has pretty much given up on her touch since she got her Fire. Of course I had to root the fire and install ICS on it to make it more enjoyable for her but same concept.
You can leave the keyboard at home and use it as a tablet. Or you can use the keyboard that comes with it. That's better for many people than the option of buying an external keyboard (along with buying and replacing batteries in your wireless iPad keyboard).
No. The keyboard doesn't "come with it" (at least they haven't said that), it's a cover. Besides which, what I actually said was that regardless of whether it "comes in the box," the Surface Pro only "has a keyboard" in the same sense that all the other tablets "have a keyboard" (option).
Pretty much every tablet has the option of using a bluetooth keyboard with it. Most of these crappykeyboards are part of the case for the tablet like this one is (and thus suffer from usability problems). The Surface Pro is actually a convertible laptop in the same sense as ASUS's offerings, but the keyboard is arguably much worse and less usable (based on what we've seen so far).
It's unreasonable IMO to refer to the Surface Pro as being really any different from the other convertible laptops out there already and the implication that it's a tablet that "finally has a keyboard," even more so.
It's either a tablet that has a crappy bluetooth keyboard option just like every other tablet, or it's a convertible laptop with a very sub-standard keyboard.
How are PC Ultrabook sales? I never see anyone looking at them when I'm at Best Buy. And even the ones that look halfway decent are ruined with all the MS/Intel/Ultrabook stickers.
You can leave the keyboard at home and use it as a tablet. Or you can use the keyboard that comes with it. That's better for many people than the option of buying an external keyboard (along with buying and replacing batteries in your wireless iPad keyboard).
Agree. I am literally in the market for a ultra portable because on the road I need more than my iPad. At home if I need more I have my desktop but for the most part I use my iPad for consumption. The thought of having two devices is a pain. The surface is a viable option if MS gets it right.
No one wants a Microsoft Tablet, except Paul Thurrot and MJ Foley.
People trust Apple to deliver a good product. The millions of people who bought and experienced iPods, this has developed well earned customer trust and loyalty. People now know what to expect and what they will get with an Apple product.
With a Windows product, the consumer knows that you can guarantee some kind of serious trouble.
Apps. You have a Fire, you get access to a very limited amount of apps that only work on the fire and an older version, albeit modified version, of Android 2.3.
Free app you means? Because Google Play is just a second rate app store and a third rate media store at best. if people want tablet for media, Kindle Fire is still better than this Nexus.
Make no mistake about it, the Fandroid crowd sees this as the long awaited iPad killer. It IS about Apple and always has been. The Nexus 7 and the Surface are both aimed directly at the iPad no matter what some analysts says. The entire tech universe is about dethroning Apple using whatever means necessary.
in a word, no.
at $200 and 7", the Nexus 7 is clearly aimed at the "mass low end" tablet market. semi-disposable products when you want something basic and cheap. and it's also clearly a "loss leader" product, like the Kindle Fire too, intended to recruit millions of buyers into the overall Google ecosystem instead of making any profit itself.
sure, Google probably hopes to eventually take on the iPad directly with a 10" version once it has built up a base of 10 million+ Nexus 7 users - like next year. but right now it wants first to push Amazon to the side - and the Nexus 7 is clearly superior in almost every way to last year's Fire. Amazon is going to have to come out with a much improved new model or fade quickly.
MS Windows 8 RT tablet is intended, tho, as competition to the iPad, yes. and it has more features than the Nexus 7. but it's problem is price. it has no chance to break into the market big time unless it is at least $100 cheaper than the corresponding iPad. will MS join the "loss leader" game? we'll see ... (never mind the MS Intel Surface, it's a DOA notebook competitor no one needs).
Make no mistake about it, the Fandroid crowd sees this as the long awaited iPad killer. It IS about Apple and always has been. The Nexus 7 and the Surface are both aimed directly at the iPad no matter what some analysts says. The entire tech universe is about dethroning Apple using whatever means necessary.
Again, I disagree. I don't think the Nexus 7 is aimed at any particular device. It's simply about getting a low cost device into your hands so that you'll provide them with the data that they need to sell you to advertisers. It's about creating a device in which you'll constantly be logged on with your Google credentials. Everything you do on your device will be monitored, packaged and sold. That's the Google business plan. You are the product. You are what's being sold to advertisers. Oh and additionally, if they can get you to consume content from their online store, they'll happily take the money.
Comments
New day, same ole BS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07
People want access to Google Play? Why?
Apps. You have a Fire, you get access to a very limited amount of apps that only work on the fire and an older version, albeit modified version, of Android 2.3.
This is the exact reason why Apple's tight integration between HW & SW will win out over practically anything brought to market. While the other tablets need horsepower to drive the SW, translating into higher component costs, Apple optimizes the SW to the HW, and vice versa, which allows the user experience to be way better than anything else. This keeps the consumer happy and maximizes profits for Apple. The former makes me happy and extremely satisfied as a user and the latter makes me elated as a shareholder. A win-win for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
He also believes Google's aggressive pricing could also spell trouble for Microsoft's recently unveiled Surface tablets, set to launch later this year.
If Microsoft prices its ARM-based Surface tablet above the $399 entry price of Apple's iPad 2, Wu thinks it would be a "disastrous move."
Well, now that iPad and Nexus 7 pricing has been explicitly announced, what are you waiting for, Ballmer?
Time to announce Surface pricing. Oh wait. Yeah, I see what you're doing there. You're trying to pretend that
you weren't waiting for Google to announce their pad and its price. So yeah, wait a week or two, then announce Surface pricing.
Need a little help? Here ya go: $399 for the ARM-based Surface. Because pricing it lower than last year's iPad would devalue it
in consumers' eyes. "Just another cheapo iPad copy," they'd think. Correctly. They've already seen PlayBooks in the $99
bargain bin. And $399 just might allow a razor-thin profit margin. Could actually be Microsoft's first hardware device to be profitable
from day 1 of sales. (Except for Microsoft's best hardware product ever: the Microsoft Keyboard.)
And don't go anywhere near $499. Because if you do, poor little Surface will be up against the Retina iPad.
Surface Pro pricing? Listen up, Ballmer. It's designed for Pro users, so you can charge them Sucker, er, Pro prices. Because
it's all tax deductible as a business expense. Just crank the base model pricing up to $999. You can do that because Ultrabooks failed.
The Ultrabook makers simply couldn't build a MacBook Air clone (that anyone actually wanted to actually buy) for $1000.
Now it's time to kill off the Ultrabook Initiative once and for all. Save that carbon footprint. Greenpeace might give you a medal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
... undercutting Apple's iPad could make it impossible for its third-party hardware partners to compete and remain profitable.
Compete? Nearly impossible. Remain profitable? Forget it.
Microsoft wants to charge third-party hardware partners $85 per copy of Windows RT. Google's "free but adspammy software" model could actually work here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
As for the Nexus 7, unveiled by Google on Wednesday, Wu's take is shared by Brian White of Topeka Capital Markets, who declared that the Nexus 7 is "just another Android-based tablet" that won't pose a threat to Apple's iPad.
Just another one for the pile. The huge, burning pile of iPad wannabes.
Your comments don't make sense.
You can leave the keyboard at home and use it as a tablet. Or you can use the keyboard that comes with it. That's better for many people than the option of buying an external keyboard (along with buying and replacing batteries in your wireless iPad keyboard).
After watching the Surface debut and Google I/O announcements, I'm convinced neither has a clue how to beat Apple in the marketplace.
As for the Nexus 7 targeting the Surface, unless Microsoft was really going to try to aggressively undercut the iPad and price itself in the Kindle Fire range, that assumption makes zero sense. Meanwhile, Apple has locked up a lot of the suppliers in the industry and still has difficulty meeting current sales demands.
Besides Microsoft already ticking off OEMs by getting into the computer hardware business (ex. see Acer VP Exec's statements), now it looks like Google is doing the same (Building the Nexus was "torture" according to Asus CEO). That doesn't bode well, especially since Google hasn't even started to use Motorola to put out self-branded hardware; Samsung will appreciate it, I'm sure. If Google is looking to irritate its partners and drive them to competing platforms (such as by forking Android away from Google's official version and jettisoning Google services), they are well on their way.
Somewhere, Tim Cook must be looking at this train wreck shaking his head.
[U]FACT[/U]: Apple (currently) has absolutely nothing remotely in the same category as either the [B]MS Surface Pro[/B] nor the Google [B]Nexus 7[/B].
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77
Here's the thing. Obviously at least the Intel version of the Microsoft Surface is aimed at the iPad market, with creation-type software and peripherals. However, if it's priced at >$899 then it'll likely lose out.
The RT version, however, will only run Metro apps (+Office) and so will likely turn out to be used a lot more for consumption (at least initially). Even if it's priced at $399 (and I think $499-599 is much more likely), I don't see it as competing well vs. the Fire and Nexus 7 due to their rock-bottom pricing.
I honestly don't see much of a win anywhere here for Microsoft since $999 for the "good" surface is the price of a MacBook Air or other Ultrabooks which seem much better suited for most business professional's needs.
I don't see the Google Nexus 7 competing at all with the Surface, really.
I disagree. I think the ARM version (Microsoft Surface for Windows RT) is the iPad competitor. The Intel version (Microsoft Surface for Windows 8) is being pushed as a competitor to UltraBooks - which are supposed to be priced somewhere between the iPad and Air. Personally, I see the Intel version as strictly oriented towards businesses. Its sole claim to fame is its ability to be managed with the same tools already in place for managing desktops (System Center, etc.). It's quite a bit larger, heavier and produces more heat. I can't imagine anybody buying the Intel version for personal use. Are you really going to buy an Intel version of a tablet, just so that you can still run all your legacy Windows apps? I can't imagine so. If you're buying a tablet, you're really buying into Metro. Otherwise, just get a laptop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Other than very light content creation (Facebook pages, etc) which even Surface RT will be able to do, only a very tiny number of iPad users use it for serious content creation.
That would also accurately describe the vast majority of desktop and laptop PC users, to be quite honest.
Make no mistake about it, the Fandroid crowd sees this as the long awaited iPad killer. It IS about Apple and always has been. The Nexus 7 and the Surface are both aimed directly at the iPad no matter what some analysts says. The entire tech universe is about dethroning Apple using whatever means necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT
Do people realize that the Nexus 7 could be a real threat to the iPod touch?
I think Google knows it cannot dethrone the iPad 3 any time soon, but it can eat up Apple's market share from the bottom up.
FOr $199 the Nexus 7 has the same 8GB memory as the iPod touch but offers an SD expansion.
It also has a much larger screen, and offers an IPS panel which is superior to the iPod's current display. And the Nexus has a quad-core CPU with Tegra 3 GPU, which at least on paper sound better than what the iPod touch offers for that price.
I am sure the casual gamer who might consider an iPod touch could be persuaded to go with a Nexus 7 instead. Why would people go for an iPod touch if they can have so much more for the same price?
This I think is also a reason why the Nexus does not come with an 3G/4G option.
It is intended to compete with the iPod, which does not offer that either.
These are very good points. Had not thought about that. I know my daughter has pretty much given up on her touch since she got her Fire. Of course I had to root the fire and install ICS on it to make it more enjoyable for her but same concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Your comments don't make sense.
You can leave the keyboard at home and use it as a tablet. Or you can use the keyboard that comes with it. That's better for many people than the option of buying an external keyboard (along with buying and replacing batteries in your wireless iPad keyboard).
No. The keyboard doesn't "come with it" (at least they haven't said that), it's a cover. Besides which, what I actually said was that regardless of whether it "comes in the box," the Surface Pro only "has a keyboard" in the same sense that all the other tablets "have a keyboard" (option).
Pretty much every tablet has the option of using a bluetooth keyboard with it. Most of these crappykeyboards are part of the case for the tablet like this one is (and thus suffer from usability problems). The Surface Pro is actually a convertible laptop in the same sense as ASUS's offerings, but the keyboard is arguably much worse and less usable (based on what we've seen so far).
It's unreasonable IMO to refer to the Surface Pro as being really any different from the other convertible laptops out there already and the implication that it's a tablet that "finally has a keyboard," even more so.
It's either a tablet that has a crappy bluetooth keyboard option just like every other tablet, or it's a convertible laptop with a very sub-standard keyboard.
How are PC Ultrabook sales? I never see anyone looking at them when I'm at Best Buy. And even the ones that look halfway decent are ruined with all the MS/Intel/Ultrabook stickers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Your comments don't make sense.
You can leave the keyboard at home and use it as a tablet. Or you can use the keyboard that comes with it. That's better for many people than the option of buying an external keyboard (along with buying and replacing batteries in your wireless iPad keyboard).
Agree. I am literally in the market for a ultra portable because on the road I need more than my iPad. At home if I need more I have my desktop but for the most part I use my iPad for consumption. The thought of having two devices is a pain. The surface is a viable option if MS gets it right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbarsky
No one wants a Microsoft Tablet, except Paul Thurrot and MJ Foley.
People trust Apple to deliver a good product. The millions of people who bought and experienced iPods, this has developed well earned customer trust and loyalty. People now know what to expect and what they will get with an Apple product.
With a Windows product, the consumer knows that you can guarantee some kind of serious trouble.
I'm actually interested. So Paul, Mary Jo and me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
FACT: Apple (currently) has absolutely nothing remotely in the same category as either the MS Surface Pro nor the Google Nexus 7.
Nor did Apple offer anything in the netbook category. And we all know how that market is doing these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I'd agree. The product looks like it was designed by a committee. The Courier also springs to mind. Meanwhile I'm waiting for some developer to emulate Metro just for laughs rather like this does for the Courier. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57405317-75/the-ipad-app-that-will-remind-you-of-microsofts-old-courier-project/
Ha! i just bought the app and played with it for a little bit. It Is a very interesting concept.
I had a few problems - that may have been my lack of knowledge or that I'm running the developer version of iOS 6.
It seems to work quite smoothly. In some situations, it is very useful to have two apps open in side-by-side window.
There are some concepts here that Apple could incorporate into iOS.
Finally, sometime around October of this year I expect that Microsoft will release Sinofski instead of the Surface!
Dictated on my iPad
Free app you means? Because Google Play is just a second rate app store and a third rate media store at best. if people want tablet for media, Kindle Fire is still better than this Nexus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Make no mistake about it, the Fandroid crowd sees this as the long awaited iPad killer. It IS about Apple and always has been. The Nexus 7 and the Surface are both aimed directly at the iPad no matter what some analysts says. The entire tech universe is about dethroning Apple using whatever means necessary.
in a word, no.
at $200 and 7", the Nexus 7 is clearly aimed at the "mass low end" tablet market. semi-disposable products when you want something basic and cheap. and it's also clearly a "loss leader" product, like the Kindle Fire too, intended to recruit millions of buyers into the overall Google ecosystem instead of making any profit itself.
sure, Google probably hopes to eventually take on the iPad directly with a 10" version once it has built up a base of 10 million+ Nexus 7 users - like next year. but right now it wants first to push Amazon to the side - and the Nexus 7 is clearly superior in almost every way to last year's Fire. Amazon is going to have to come out with a much improved new model or fade quickly.
MS Windows 8 RT tablet is intended, tho, as competition to the iPad, yes. and it has more features than the Nexus 7. but it's problem is price. it has no chance to break into the market big time unless it is at least $100 cheaper than the corresponding iPad. will MS join the "loss leader" game? we'll see ... (never mind the MS Intel Surface, it's a DOA notebook competitor no one needs).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Make no mistake about it, the Fandroid crowd sees this as the long awaited iPad killer. It IS about Apple and always has been. The Nexus 7 and the Surface are both aimed directly at the iPad no matter what some analysts says. The entire tech universe is about dethroning Apple using whatever means necessary.
Again, I disagree. I don't think the Nexus 7 is aimed at any particular device. It's simply about getting a low cost device into your hands so that you'll provide them with the data that they need to sell you to advertisers. It's about creating a device in which you'll constantly be logged on with your Google credentials. Everything you do on your device will be monitored, packaged and sold. That's the Google business plan. You are the product. You are what's being sold to advertisers. Oh and additionally, if they can get you to consume content from their online store, they'll happily take the money.