Apple settles China iPad trademark dispute with Proview for $60 million

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 70
    sr2012sr2012 Posts: 896member
    omegalink wrote: »
    Don't forget China has 5-6 times more people than USA. So when you talk about having more pollution, more nuclear reactors, etc, you need to take that into consideration. Otherwise, the logic is warped.

    That's an interesting point. However, that's also the concern. China is breaking all these records, but yet, ~they've still got a long way to go~.

    They are already pumping out more CO2 than the US. But with a fraction of GDP per capita.

    Basically, if China had the GDP ~per capita~ of the USA all the planet's resources would be in serious, serious shortage... Not to mention the state of the Earth.

    539
  • Reply 42 of 70
    uguysrnutsuguysrnuts Posts: 459member
    Good.

    Now Proview's CEO and management can sell their organs and body parts to pay off another "smidgen" off the company's debts.
  • Reply 43 of 70
    techboytechboy Posts: 183member


    This is the risk for trying to do business in China. $60 million is nothing to Apple at this point but the point is they shouldn't have to pay for the rights twice for a trademark that no one else can create any value to it. 

  • Reply 44 of 70
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GTR View Post


     


    You mean 'due diligence' as in inadequate disclosure to investors of material information with respect to the purchase of securities?


     


    No, that probably didn't happen, seeing as this was the purchase of a trademark from a third party, and you seem to have confused it with a totally different situation entirely.


     


    Please, Conrad, tell me you don't have a drivers licence. There are an awful lot of kids out playing by the side of the road these days...



    No, he probably meant "Due Diligence" as in performing an independent investigation before signing a contract, acting with care. Yes, there's more than one meaning.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence


     


    Making fun of others looks particularly silly when it bites you in your own butt. This is one of those cases. That's one of the better reasons to avoid it IMO. At least wait until he really does post something incorrect if you still feel the need to ridicule a post. We all make 'em so you'll get another chance.

  • Reply 45 of 70
    shaun, ukshaun, uk Posts: 1,050member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    Based on my calculations of using 11.8 million units sold last quarter, an ARP of $650 and a net profit of $10 it took 7 days to make $60 million in profit in just the iPad division last quarter. While that's a lot it's still a drop in the bucket for this product.


     


    I would think Apple makes a lot more than $10 profit per unit on the iPad.

  • Reply 46 of 70
    ankleskaterankleskater Posts: 1,287member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    That's a huge sum for a trademark they already paid for. I doubt things would have turned out as well had this taken place outside China. I wouldn't be surprised if Proview will get liquidated shortly with that $60M going straight to their creditors.




    It is a huge sum, even if eminently affordable for Apple. Even assuming that this is related to lax laws or corruption in China, part of doing business internationally is learning and understanding laws of the land, including the official statutes and the *unofficial* ones. It sounds like Apple Lawyers could have done a more thorough job, particularly given the Taiwanese angle (which is always an issue when dealing with mainland China).

  • Reply 47 of 70
    city wrote: »
    This amounts to a China Tax that Apple should add on to the product price in China times three.

    In essence this already occurs. Everything is more expensive in mainland China. Hong Kong is cheaper and the USA even cheaper.
  • Reply 48 of 70
    shaun, uk wrote: »
    I would think Apple makes a lot more than $10 profit per unit on the iPad.

    Indeed. I think it will only take 3 months to recover the fee. This was Proview's tactic. Leveraging time vs. a pain in the ....

    I imagine The stronger Proview felt, the more they moved the goal post. Mediation was probably key to insuring the finish line did not move and legal rights were actually transferred.
  • Reply 49 of 70
    shaun, ukshaun, uk Posts: 1,050member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post

     


     


    I agree with your comments about China, but you're wasting your time posting them on here.


     


    $60m is probably worth it just to make this distraction go away.


     


    As someone who has lost money as a creditor of a bankrupt company in the past I would say good luck to the creditors if they can get any of their money back.

  • Reply 50 of 70
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    No, he probably meant "Due Diligence" as in performing an independent investigation before signing a contract, acting with care. Yes, there's more than one meaning.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence


     


    Making fun of others looks particularly silly when it bites you in your own butt. This is one of those cases. That's one of the better reasons to avoid it IMO. At least wait until he really does post something incorrect if you still feel the need to ridicule a post. We all make 'em so you'll get another chance.



     


    I stand corrected.


     


    I have absolutely no problem admitting when I am wrong.


     


    I also stand by my assessment of him, which was not made on a single post but many. ;-)

  • Reply 51 of 70
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    sr2012 wrote: »
    As always, everyone assumes when I criticise China that I'm some pimply 18-year-old fat white kid in Middle America. And as always, I have to wave my credentials in the air... Born in Malaysia, half-Chinese, half-Indian, lived in KL, Singapore, 4 Australian cities, San Francisco. Read & Write English, Malay, basic Mandarin, can understand simple Cantonese.
    I can haz criticize China now?
    This political correctness nonsense has to end. Call a spade a spade. Proview are crooks and so is the corrupt political and legal framework in China. What's more disturbing (or not, I suppose) is that this is all par for the course in Asia.
    I'm not asking anyone to walk out on the street and punch anyone of Chinese ethnicity.
    There's some bad stuff going on in China and all of us, regardless of race or nationality, should be concerned. There's some bad stuff going on in Malaysia, but what I would like to highlight is that the saviour of the global economy, aka China, is not a pleasant place. Yes, any country has issues. But given the importance of China you really want to have a good look at it and see what's happening.
    By 2050 China will have the largest economy. The largest consumption. The largest population. The largest military perhaps. The largest carbon emissions. A man/woman on the Moon and Mars even. And it already is one of the most polluted countries in the world, by 2050 it will probably have the highest level of pollution.
    The things happening in China, good and bad, are at a scale that is beyond human imagination itself, and certainly will far surpass anything the USA has done. Just when the US overtook the British, this is the point in time when China overtakes the US.
    Do people actually know that China has over 40 nuclear reactors? A big proportion under construction, but which country has 27 brand new nuclear plants under construction? Mmmm mmm the best part? Most of it is near the coast. Draw your own conclusions from that.
    Time to can the niceness and look at the facts. Do you know for example that most rural migrants to cities do not qualify for basic healthcare and other services due to urban registration requirements? Maybe that's one of the things causing them to jump off factory roofs.
    I can tell you even Malaysian Chinese are very wary of the "motherland". For example there's been waves of prostitutes from China coming to Malaysia under the guise of "student visas". And that's only the tip of the iceberg.
    But, where will we draw the line? We are in China's holding cell. I understand Apple's motivations but this piece of meat has been fed to a pretty big Monster, not Proview.

    Aside from the tone, there's a lot of truth in what you say. I've been to nearly 30 countries (including multiple trips to China) and the only country that I'm less likely to want to go back to is Pakistan. But, unfortunately, we created much of the problem starting about 25 years ago when we allowed China to manipulate their currency and take over the world's manufacturing.
    In essence this already occurs. Everything is more expensive in mainland China. Hong Kong is cheaper and the USA even cheaper.

    I suspect you've never been to either China or Hong Kong. Things in Hong Kong are horribly expensive. Things in China are often dirt cheap. Most of the US is in the middle (although the most expensive US cities can approach Hong Kong on some items).
  • Reply 52 of 70
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GTR View Post


     


    I stand corrected.


     


    I have absolutely no problem admitting when I am wrong.


     


    I also stand by my assessment of him, which was not made on a single post but many. ;-)



    Fair enough. I don't care for some of his posts either. Many just seem like they're intended only to get a negative response.


     


    BTW, it shows character and self-esteem to admit you're wrong. I wish everyone here would be so humble. 

  • Reply 53 of 70
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JakeTheRock View Post


    I have no doubt that Apple could have continued to pursue, and eventually win, the case, but there's nothing to gain from fighting an already bankrupt company. 



    What happened to the "Apple won't cave in to a bankrupt company, they just need to wait a few weeks"?


     


    Maybe Apple wasn't that clean on the case and they finally admitted it?


    Maybe Apple was quite clean and chinese courts aren't exactly incorruptible?


     


    I don't know, myself, but I do find that AppleInsider forum dwellers have a very partial way of interpreting court decisions and Apple court moves... then again, it's not entirely unsurprising.


    Right now, I'd rather have more news on the "new iPhone"... whatever it's called :D

  • Reply 54 of 70
    ankleskaterankleskater Posts: 1,287member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    Aside from the tone, there's a lot of truth in what you say. I've been to nearly 30 countries (including multiple trips to China) and the only country that I'm less likely to want to go back to is Pakistan. But, unfortunately, we created much of the problem starting about 25 years ago when we allowed China to manipulate their currency and take over the world's manufacturing.

    I suspect you've never been to either China or Hong Kong. Things in Hong Kong are horribly expensive. Things in China are often dirt cheap. Most of the US is in the middle (although the most expensive US cities can approach Hong Kong on some items).




    If I may, *some* things in Hong Kong are horribly expensive. Some things are quite cheap. The latter is more common in mainland China, by far.

  • Reply 55 of 70
    sr2012sr2012 Posts: 896member
    jragosta wrote: »
    Aside from the tone, there's a lot of truth in what you say. I've been to nearly 30 countries (including multiple trips to China) and the only country that I'm less likely to want to go back to is Pakistan. But, unfortunately, we created much of the problem starting about 25 years ago when we allowed China to manipulate their currency and take over the world's manufacturing.

    I appreciate the feedback. My tone is certainly inflammatory at times but I try to keep to the content as far as possible. While it may not be presented in the most palatable way, you get to a certain age when you couldn't be bothered beating around the bush, especially once one themselves realises all these things that are going on. Without digressing, did you know Iran was elected to the UN Commission for Women's Rights? Surely I jest? Nope... http://www.humanevents.com/2010/05/07/iran-elected-to-un-commission-on-women/

    I mention the above link only because in the context of the China debate we must keep in mind that some countries are exploiting political correctness and subverting the very principles that gave rise to political correctness. I've promised to not hijack threads, so I'll just say this is one of the things that get me... That seriously dodgy people and countries are ingeniously exploiting political correctness and the left-right divide in Western countries. Because just like this Apple case... If you say China is horrible you are either a Fox Newser or a bigot. If you say China is land of milk, honey and happiness then it's courteous but common sense tells you that's rubbish. Common sense will tell you that they are just people trying to make a better life, but at best some in China are probably going about it in a very misinformed way. It's okay saying that's a country, we need to respect their way of life. But when that country starts to call a lot of the shots on the world stage, will ~you~ now have to ask ~them~ to respect ~your~ way of life? Rich, fat, white people deserve justice too.
    What happened to the "Apple won't cave in to a bankrupt company, they just need to wait a few weeks"?

    Maybe Apple wasn't that clean on the case and they finally admitted it?
    Maybe Apple was quite clean and chinese courts aren't exactly incorruptible?

    The mountains of evidence have been presented. Apple was generally clean as far as the evidence goes, the only thing is at worst, that they were caught up in the technicalities. Apple settling is either seen as an act of generosity, unethical Apple practice, or a caving to a lower level of business and legal ethics in Asia. A spade is a spade. Let's not grease it up in margerine and call it organic butter.
  • Reply 56 of 70
    sr2012sr2012 Posts: 896member
    shaun, uk wrote: »
    I agree with your comments about China, but you're wasting your time posting them on here.

    Thanks, but I take it that as long as the issues are reported in AI regular forums not PoliticalOutsider then I'll have my say. One day I'll be a "proper" activist but for now you all will unfortunately have to deal with me here.
  • Reply 57 of 70
    sr2012sr2012 Posts: 896member
    gtr wrote: »
    I stand corrected.

    I have absolutely no problem admitting when I am wrong.

    I also stand by my assessment of him, which was not made on a single post but many. ;-)

    I have no idea what this is about. Maybe because I've been too far up my own *** berating China :) <---ARGH supposed to be a smiley it's not showing up still...
  • Reply 58 of 70
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,399member


    I think Apple realised that they weren't fighting Proview, they were fighting the Government. Proview's liquidators only asked for what they owed to clear the debts.


    As the debts were mostly owed to the banks, it was in the Government's (and therefore the court's) interest for Proview to get a good result.


    The banks will have written that money off long ago so they'll be happy with the result.


     


    At least Apple now know how s*** goes down in China now, they won't fall for that again.

  • Reply 59 of 70
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    shaun, uk wrote: »
    I would think Apple makes a lot more than $10 profit per unit on the iPad.

    It's a typo. It's 10% net profit. Check the math.
  • Reply 60 of 70
    sr2012sr2012 Posts: 896member
    festerfeet wrote: »
    That came across as a rant.

    Perhaps you should be a little more specific in your explanations and less emotional. Yes, China has problems which are very real and others which are perceived because practises are different.

    Rather than scaremongering, complaining and firing off gross generalities why not either discuss the topic or perhaps offer some suggestions of how you have actually or could potentially help in solving some of those problems or bridging the gap of misunderstanding.

    If it's a rant, then it's a rant. If it's inappropriate, then appropriate action can be taken to remove my posts, though while passionate I don't think it is offensive nor inappropriate, given the topic of this thread which is certainly ~interesting~.

    "Practices that are different"? This is the kind of political correctness that first must be addressed before we can bridge the gap "of misunderstanding". Until people of many races and nationalities can truly say what they think we will not come to an understanding. If some guy off the street promised to sell you an iPad for $500, you paid, then he didn't give it to you, then said you must pay another $50,000 for the iPad, is it because his "practices are different"? If he was Caucasian or Asian does it matter since he's a scumbag scammer?

    Let's look at the topic of this thread. There's extortion, subversion of the rule of law, most likely bribery and corruption at various levels of government, arbitrary seizing of private and commercial property (iPads etc) with no recourse as to what happens to such property. The question this Apple case poses is simply, is this acceptable for us as human beings. If yes, fine, go about your business, call me a mad raving nutjob. If no, then you'll agree with ~some~ of what I say and are at least a little interested with the game Apple themselves are now playing, and a game that the West is now inextricably involved in. Perhaps I'm scaremongering but the issues arising out of this Apple case are certainly ~scary~. One can note from the comments that at best this case seems to be "something that happens in the US". At worst, much worse. But we have not noted anything out of this case that seems to be "something better than what happens in the US". This point bears consideration.

    [To the other poster(s)]

    On the topic of China, yes, I have not physically been to China, and I admit I don't intend to. My "insider" experience is simply what I stated above, not that that is required in any way to be able to judge/ analyse/ criticise the situation. I am not saying I'm better than you, I'm saying consider what I have to say, yes, in relation to the topic. Does one have to spend a month in Iran to know things are not so good there? Why not Sudan? I hear they offer "visit us and really feel shit about the world" tours. I'm not saying the ordinary Chinese citizen is the real bad guy here, they are caught up in these issues and I would say I speak for them as much as for myself. That's why we should talk about the situation as it is. Then the understanding can be reached. I'm sure the Chinese business owner that got his iPads seized (and maybe the next day sees the official's daughter with it), for example, probably agrees with me.

    (Yes, yes, one day I'll be able to use my "colourful" "argumentative" skills in better ways, like I said, for now, er... deal with it)
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