Based on my calculations of using 11.8 million units sold last quarter, an ARP of $650 and a net profit of $10 it took 7 days to make $60 million in profit in just the iPad division last quarter. While that's a lot it's still a drop in the bucket for this product.
Excellent calc there, but I simply do not understand why Apple has to pay because 'Proview had argued that the Chinese trademark hadn't been included in a deal to transfer other international rights because legal representatives from its Shenzhen affiliate weren't present when the contract was signed.' What's up with this world, a company can be held liable for - or fuggetabutit
PS Totally missing sr2012 point with the China rant.
This is giving in to blackmail, but it seems the Chinese courts were going to let this drag out, and a quick settlement is worth a lot to Apple.
That is the cost of doing business in this 3rd world country (and a lot of others). The officials expect bribes, the banking institutions put a lot of pressure on the courts because they are old school with old school ties to the big red.
It is unfortunate that Apple had to pay for something it already owned but it does help send a message to world about China and how the continue the evil of the past. I had thought that maybe the desire to be treated like a grown up and a partner would be something that they would think highly enough of in the world view but greed today won out. I hope this means more companies will find that making something here (in the US) is becoming more competitive as China's labor cost and double dipping drive their price up.
If it's a rant, then it's a rant. If it's inappropriate, then appropriate action can be taken to remove my posts, though while passionate I don't think it is offensive nor inappropriate, given the topic of this thread which is certainly ~interesting~.
On the topic of China, yes, I have not physically been to China, and I admit I don't intend to. My "insider" experience is simply what I stated above, not that that is required in any way to be able to judge/ analyse/ criticise the situation. I am not saying I'm better than you, I'm saying consider what I have to say, yes, in relation to the topic. Does one have to spend a month in Iran to know things are not so good there? Why not Sudan? I hear they offer "visit us and really feel shit about the world" tours. I'm not saying the ordinary Chinese citizen is the real bad guy here, they are caught up in these issues and I would say I speak for them as much as for myself. That's why we should talk about the situation as it is. Then the understanding can be reached. I'm sure the Chinese business owner that got his iPads seized (and maybe the next day sees the official's daughter with it), for example, probably agrees with me.
(Yes, yes, one day I'll be able to use my "colourful" "argumentative" skills in better ways, like I said, for now, er... deal with it)
It was a rant and it was bigoted. You mentioned awful things happening in China as if that they are accepted practices and that they don't happen elsewhere in the world. Note that you commented on pollution and unsafe conditions and crime as if any of the specifics you mentioned are somehow only happening in China. You claim that anyone who disagrees with you is just being, and I quote, "politically correct" but you fail to see that you're only making these claims about China, hence my comment that you are sounding bigoted and xeonphobic.
There are atrocities in the world that are not based on an entire nation of 1.5 billion people covering 3.7 million square miles.
I've been to China and many other countries in this world and each has their pros and cons, their pluses and minuses. There is no one culture that is better or worse than the other but I have encountered individual people who are ignorant, petty and insecure.
1. Can Apple write off this $60 million Settlement as a Business Loss to reduce its taxes?
2. If yes, which taxes: in US, in China, or in both?
As a matter of just $$$, particularly if this Settlement can be used as a "Deduction" on taxes, maybe it's a non issue?
As a matter of • principle •, it's sad to see such extortion prevail…
Morally, Apple won this case, cause it can be considered a victim of an extortion! But of course there are those who will never forgive Apple for Doing Well, or for not doing what they think Apple should be doing with its profits!!!!
China's Legal System is again confirmed as a Dark Place! Maybe that fact might help Apple in the future challenges in China?
No matter how powerful China gets, it, like all countries, is going to need a Positive PR Image on the World Stage!!! So, I hope things will get more "civilized" there, and everywhere in the world!!! The recent Health Care topic in the US was another reminder how insane things can get…
1. Can Apple write off this $60 million Settlement as a Business Loss to reduce its taxes?
2. If yes, which taxes: in US, in China, or in both?
As a matter of just $$$, particularly if this Settlement can be used as a "Deduction" on taxes, maybe it's a non issue?
This settlement will be deductible as a normal business expense by whoever paid it. That is, if Apple China paid it, it will be deductible in China. If Apple US paid it, it will be deductible in the US.
It is NOT, however, a non issue. A tax deduction does not make you whole. If Apple is in the 33% tax bracket (they're actually lower than that), then a $60 M expense would save them $20 M in taxes, so the net cost would still be $40 M.
Unbreathable air, kids getting run over and no one helping, women getting molested on buses etc etc. "Developed" nation? China will never be one, not in the next 20 years anyway.
A bit derogatory if you ask me, if one has to recap every nutjob/appalling story coming out of the good ol' USA and start making crass generalizations... Yeah 'developed', it's not as if they had just returned from space, building their own space station...
Still reading Jobs Biography. He would NEVER have allowed this.
It is a great read and this guy is FIERY!
Well, I guess now everyone and their mother is going to come out and sue Apple.
This is why you can't negotiate with criminals. They will just use whatever you give them as more ammunition against you. (Not saying China is full of criminals, but I did work in intel and well....Bing operation "Titan Rain")
Unfortunately, 60 million is a lot to everyone else and this will cause a lot more lawsuits with a ton of "evidence" of Apple's lack of dutiful research.
Comments
charlituna gave you a way better answer than me "but please read the article before posting"
Excellent calc there, but I simply do not understand why Apple has to pay because 'Proview had argued that the Chinese trademark hadn't been included in a deal to transfer other international rights because legal representatives from its Shenzhen affiliate weren't present when the contract was signed.' What's up with this world, a company can be held liable for - or fuggetabutit
PS Totally missing sr2012 point with the China rant.
That's okay, sooner or later it will sink in. Then it will be too late : )
That is the cost of doing business in this 3rd world country (and a lot of others). The officials expect bribes, the banking institutions put a lot of pressure on the courts because they are old school with old school ties to the big red.
It is unfortunate that Apple had to pay for something it already owned but it does help send a message to world about China and how the continue the evil of the past. I had thought that maybe the desire to be treated like a grown up and a partner would be something that they would think highly enough of in the world view but greed today won out. I hope this means more companies will find that making something here (in the US) is becoming more competitive as China's labor cost and double dipping drive their price up.
Go bankrupt one day later than they would have otherwise.
Funnily enough they were already bankrupt when they started their little scam.
It was a rant and it was bigoted. You mentioned awful things happening in China as if that they are accepted practices and that they don't happen elsewhere in the world. Note that you commented on pollution and unsafe conditions and crime as if any of the specifics you mentioned are somehow only happening in China. You claim that anyone who disagrees with you is just being, and I quote, "politically correct" but you fail to see that you're only making these claims about China, hence my comment that you are sounding bigoted and xeonphobic.
There are atrocities in the world that are not based on an entire nation of 1.5 billion people covering 3.7 million square miles.
I've been to China and many other countries in this world and each has their pros and cons, their pluses and minuses. There is no one culture that is better or worse than the other but I have encountered individual people who are ignorant, petty and insecure.
1. Can Apple write off this $60 million Settlement as a Business Loss to reduce its taxes?
2. If yes, which taxes: in US, in China, or in both?
As a matter of just $$$, particularly if this Settlement can be used as a "Deduction" on taxes, maybe it's a non issue?
As a matter of • principle •, it's sad to see such extortion prevail…
Morally, Apple won this case, cause it can be considered a victim of an extortion! But of course there are those who will never forgive Apple for Doing Well, or for not doing what they think Apple should be doing with its profits!!!!
China's Legal System is again confirmed as a Dark Place! Maybe that fact might help Apple in the future challenges in China?
No matter how powerful China gets, it, like all countries, is going to need a Positive PR Image on the World Stage!!! So, I hope things will get more "civilized" there, and everywhere in the world!!! The recent Health Care topic in the US was another reminder how insane things can get…
This settlement will be deductible as a normal business expense by whoever paid it. That is, if Apple China paid it, it will be deductible in China. If Apple US paid it, it will be deductible in the US.
It is NOT, however, a non issue. A tax deduction does not make you whole. If Apple is in the 33% tax bracket (they're actually lower than that), then a $60 M expense would save them $20 M in taxes, so the net cost would still be $40 M.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012
Unbreathable air, kids getting run over and no one helping, women getting molested on buses etc etc. "Developed" nation? China will never be one, not in the next 20 years anyway.
A bit derogatory if you ask me, if one has to recap every nutjob/appalling story coming out of the good ol' USA and start making crass generalizations... Yeah 'developed', it's not as if they had just returned from space, building their own space station...
Still reading Jobs Biography. He would NEVER have allowed this.
It is a great read and this guy is FIERY!
Well, I guess now everyone and their mother is going to come out and sue Apple.
This is why you can't negotiate with criminals. They will just use whatever you give them as more ammunition against you. (Not saying China is full of criminals, but I did work in intel and well....Bing operation "Titan Rain")
Unfortunately, 60 million is a lot to everyone else and this will cause a lot more lawsuits with a ton of "evidence" of Apple's lack of dutiful research.