Apple disagrees with new Italian warranty ruling, files appeal

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 63

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    Yeah, but the whole idea of a free two year warranty on a modern electronic device is a bit ridiculous.  


     


    No other place has this and Italy is just a part of Europe. If it was up to me I would simply leave Italy.  It's not like you can't drive to a neighbouring country in five minutes to get an Apple device. Sometimes the proper reaction to a law is not to give in to it but to decide to go elsewhere where the laws are more reasonable.  


     


    I know lots of folks who refuse to travel to the USA anymore for this same reason (although the laws in question are much more serious than just whether you get a refund on your purchases or not).  



    Ever hear of Nikon? Go have a look at the Nikon D4 price and see how your myopic theory on two year warranties work. I'll wait....

  • Reply 42 of 63
    jimpjimp Posts: 4member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marco Grigis View Post


     


    First of all, the 2 years warranty is an EU directive. Second, someone posted this: "After 6 months the consumer has to prove the fault was present at the time of purchase or delivery". There's no such thing in the law. The fault can manifest itself even two weeks before the deadline, the consumer has only to prove that the fault is not user-generated.


     



     


    That's exactly what the directive says. As made clear earlier fault present at the time of delivery does not have to be noticeable at the time of delivery or purchase. It could be a manufacturing flaw that manifests itself later as a part not lasting as long as it should and failing early - either before or after 6 months.  Before 6 months the automatic assumption is that it is the manufacturers problem and the customer does not have to prove the goods were faulty at the time of the sale. It is assumed that they were. If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale. After 6 months the consumer needs to prove that the fault was present at the time of sale, i.e., not dropped at home causing the hard drive to pack up. 

  • Reply 43 of 63
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    In your case, you're admitting that the faulty headphone socket is not important to you, and it is of course your choice to not do anything about it.


     


    But surely, you would agree that having ridiculously long warranties where customers could come in years after they bought something and claim that it was always broken is not necessarily a good law, and it would encourage certain people to take advantage of it, which would cause Apple's revenue to shrink.


     


    I do believe that if there is something wrong with somebody's device, that they should get it fixed in a reasonable amount of time, if it is important to them, and not many years later.





    I disagree.  As an example, the Macbook Unibody I am typing this on.  Everything seemed fine for months until one day I had a requirement to install software from a dual layer DVD.  It wouldn't read it.  It was fine with CD's and single layer DVDs.  The fault could have easily gone undiscovered for well over a year by someone until, like me, they needed to use a dual layer disc.  How would I or anyone else be taking advantage of Apple in such a case?  Turned out the problem was widespread and a lot, if not all the original drives in these machines were defective.  I will bet there are some poor sods why didn't discover the problem within the warranty period or didn't read about the problem being widespread.  I assume they were stuck with paying for a replacement drive themselves when they eventually discovered the problem.

  • Reply 44 of 63
    woodbinewoodbine Posts: 83member
    Have you read the Dell website on this whole warranty business? From what I understand it is clearly in flagrant disobedience to the EU directive and possibly doesn't even mention the 2 year rule.
  • Reply 45 of 63
    saltwatersaltwater Posts: 50member


    European Union are 27 countries with about 500 000 000 people, maybe Apple should think twice on this, because the warranty law most probably is not going to change!

  • Reply 46 of 63
    jahonenjahonen Posts: 364member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


     


    I wouldn't believe anybody who claimed that they had a faulty headphone socket and they never did anything about it for two whole years. It's much more likely, that the device was 100% fine, and the defect occurred afterwards, and then that would be the customer's own fault.


     



     


    The basic idea is that if the defect was in the product, but manifested itself later it is still a defect that existed in the product at the time of purchase (for example material failures). For example a wasting machine can be assumed to have a motor that should last for 6+ years. If the motor fails at 4 years, the laws in many countries regard that as a failure sooner than the expected lifetime of the product. Thus requiring some compensation from the seller (the user has however benefitted for 4 years so no full refund). So the "reasonable lifetime" varies by product time. Typically refrigerators, ovens, washing machines etc. have a longer expected lifetime than electronics. Electronics seems to have a lifetime expectancy ranging from the bare minimum 6 months, to the more common two years within the EU.


     


    In Finland for example the simplified rule goes: "Any failure other than physical damage within 12 months on electronics (batteries 3mo)-> Under warranty no questions asked. Between 12-24 months, the consumer must prove a defect in the original product (material or design)". In practice this has lead to most manufacturers to give outright two year warranties to avoid the extra hassle and bad rep for fighting about every single case between 12-24 months.


     


    In your example if the headphone had worked for 20 months but failed at 22 months for example, it would still be regarded as a defect hiding in the original product as a headphone socket would be expected to last at least the two years. So no, not the customer's own fault unless the seller/manufacturer can prove misuse of the product itself.

  • Reply 47 of 63
    hungoverhungover Posts: 602member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Those European laws are retarded, made by retards for retards.


     


    If you go to Apple's site, you can read the warranty information for various countries and I took a look at a few of the European countries.


     


    They're all here:


    http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/Additional_Legal_Rights_for_Consumers.html


     


    Apple's regular one year warranty and AppleCare both covers defects arising after the customer takes delivery.


     


    The Euro two year plan which some people are mentioning covers defects present when customer takes delivery. So basically, it's a useless law, as there's no need for a two year plan for somebody to realize that there is something wrong with their device. That is something that customers find out shortly after buying their device, if there's something wrong with it. They don't find out two years later that something is wrong. That is BS. And Apple should be very strict in enforcing the rules of that euro two year plan, as it does not cover any defects arising after the customer takes delivery. So if a random eurohead walks into an Apple store with a problem after 1 year, Apple is under no obligation to fix the problem, as the customer has no legal


    warranty, as long as the defect occurred after the customer took delivery.


     


    If people want extra laws that are silly and a waste of time, then Apple should charge those customers extra for that additional feature.



     


    The EU directive is just another safeguard for consumers, it does not exist in insulation. Firms selling electronic items are obliged to offer their own statutory warranty for a minimum of one year. Thus the suggestion that you have to prove anything in the first year is moot.


     


    Increasingly firms in the EU are offering free 2 year warranties, eg HTC and Sony. If a product fails  within 2 years it will be repaired for free (excluding wear and tear and abuse).


     


    Personally I can see why the courts are considering the 30 day ban. Apple have given shown them 2 fingers so far by refusing to play ball and in a fit of "throwing their toys out of the proverbial pram" the have harmed customer relations by insisting that customers not holding AppleCare submit independent reports before they are willing to fix items. The ban will harm the image of Apple far more than a fine. Fines are supposed to be punitive but the courts don't have the authority to impose a fine large enough to have any real impact on Apple.


     


    I expect to see Apple back down pretty soon.

  • Reply 48 of 63

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hungover View Post


     


    The EU directive is just another safeguard for consumers, it does not exist in insulation. Firms selling electronic items are obliged to offer their own statutory warranty for a minimum of one year. Thus the suggestion that you have to prove anything in the first year is moot.


     


    Increasingly firms in the EU are offering free 2 year warranties, eg HTC and Sony. If a product fails  within 2 years it will be repaired for free (excluding wear and tear and abuse).


     


    Personally I can see why the courts are considering the 30 day ban. Apple have given shown them 2 fingers so far by refusing to play ball and in a fit of "throwing their toys out of the proverbial pram" the have harmed customer relations by insisting that customers not holding AppleCare submit independent reports before they are willing to fix items. The ban will harm the image of Apple far more than a fine. Fines are supposed to be punitive but the courts don't have the authority to impose a fine large enough to have any real impact on Apple.


     


    I expect to see Apple back down pretty soon.



    Best post ever. Apple doesn't agree with the Italian's court interpretation of an Italian law. Well of course Apple knows better as usual. As an Apple enthusiast I am really getting a bit tired of Apple. Just change the wording and be down with it. This "we know better" attitude is getting old...

  • Reply 49 of 63
    hkzhkz Posts: 190member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    As for your iPhone, if you're in the US, you get a one year warranty. If you wish to be extra safe, then you should've gotten AppleCare. 



    No, Apple should warranty the phone for the life of the contract that comes along with it. Having a phone that was completely useless two weeks outside the warranty is complete bullshit. I still have a few Nokia phones that are 10 years old and work perfectly fine. Why should I have to "make sure" what essentially is an almost $1k device (unsubsidized) works after a year? And pay extra for it? Is Apple's quality so bad that I should expect every phone they make to not be able to last 12 months of very good care? Can Apple do no wrong in your eyes? Because that statement is utter bull. The iPhone should last more than 1 year of use, and I shouldn't have to pay for a whole new phone because a tiny little mic quit working. That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. I bought Applecare for my MBP, but a effing telephone should have longer than a 1 year warranty simply because you are contractually obligated to use it for two year, the warranty should cover 2 years. End of story.

  • Reply 50 of 63
    jahonenjahonen Posts: 364member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


     


    If you wish to be extra safe, then you should've gotten AppleCare. 



     


    Heh. The curveball here is that you can't even get AppleCare for iPhones in several EU countries (don't ask me why, don't know). AppleCare is available for Macs and iPads though. Makes me wonder why the discussion is only for the iPhone. The iPad has the same two year AppleCare.


     


    Interesting to watch how this unfolds. Is this the first time the EU consumer protection laws are being fought by a big corporation in this manner?

  • Reply 51 of 63
    gabaragabara Posts: 2member


    I still don't get the European law. My iPhone was purchased over a year ago. I do have a problem that I have to press the button repeatedly sometimes. Bought it


    from O2, not from Apple. So should I be able to go to O2 and have them repair it for free? If they ask me to prove that this was a fault at delivery, how the heck


    would I do that? What's the point of asking a consumer to prove anything -- how will he or she be able to do that anyhow?


     


    I live in Germany so quoting the German interpretation of the law doesn't make sense here. So I've searched for the UK interpretation of the law and


    found: www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN02239.pdf.


     


    Quote:


    >> These consumer rights are available for up to two years following purchase. If the defect becomes apparent within the first six months of purchase,

    >> it will be presumed to have existed at the time of delivery, otherwise this will be for the consumer to prove


     


    What kind of "consumer rights" law asks me to prove that the defect existed at the time of the deliver? If O2 asks me to prove that the faulty button existed


    at time of delivery, how the fluke do I do that?


     


    I actually think that Apple is correct here. It's this stupid EU law that makes no sense. At least I can understand the Apple warranty. Shit, I don't even know


    where to go to to read the official law. All I can find is interpretations of the law.


     


    Hm, actually it makes sense that Apple claims that Italy is misinterpreting the EU law. After all, it all comes down to interpretations of the law, even for


    Italy. It's not an Italian law. Apple claiming that Italy is misinterpreting an Italian law would be funny, but this is not applicable here.

  • Reply 52 of 63
    jahonenjahonen Posts: 364member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gabara View Post


    I still don't get the European law. My iPhone was purchased over a year ago. I do have a problem that I have to press the button repeatedly sometimes. Bought it


    from O2, not from Apple. So should I be able to go to O2 and have them repair it for free? If they ask me to prove that this was a fault at delivery, how the heck


    would I do that? What's the point of asking a consumer to prove anything -- how will he or she be able to do that anyhow?


     



    My understanding is that if you can prove that the button is not functional (and it should be functional after less than two years), you can claim that it has broken prematurely and is thus a defect in the original product (since the button failed before the expected lifetime of the product). Of course the UK could be different, but this is how the Finnish press explains the EU law.


     


    Another example is my VW 1.4 TSI engine which has a stretched cam chain. Expensive to replace, warranty ended two years ago (2008 model car). But since the consumer body states that the expected lifetime of a car engine is 250000 km and a cam chain should last the lifetime of the engine, my 70000km driven engine had a fault from the factory -> VW pays for the fix even though the car is over 4 years old. So the proof was: a) chain is designed to last lifetime of engine b) engine lifetime is designed for 250kkm c) chain failed at 70kkm -> must have been defective at factory. That's all there was to it.

  • Reply 53 of 63
    hungoverhungover Posts: 602member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gabara View Post


    I still don't get the European law. My iPhone was purchased over a year ago. I do have a problem that I have to press the button repeatedly sometimes. Bought it


    from O2, not from Apple. So should I be able to go to O2 and have them repair it for free? If they ask me to prove that this was a fault at delivery, how the heck


    would I do that? What's the point of asking a consumer to prove anything -- how will he or she be able to do that anyhow?


     


    I live in Germany so quoting the German interpretation of the law doesn't make sense here. So I've searched for the UK interpretation of the law and


    found: www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN02239.pdf.


     


    Quote:


    >> These consumer rights are available for up to two years following purchase. If the defect becomes apparent within the first six months of purchase,

    >> it will be presumed to have existed at the time of delivery, otherwise this will be for the consumer to prove


     


    What kind of "consumer rights" law asks me to prove that the defect existed at the time of the deliver? If O2 asks me to prove that the faulty button existed


    at time of delivery, how the fluke do I do that?


     


    I actually think that Apple is correct here. It's this stupid EU law that makes no sense. At least I can understand the Apple warranty. Shit, I don't even know


    where to go to to read the official law. All I can find is interpretations of the law.


     


    Hm, actually it makes sense that Apple claims that Italy is misinterpreting the EU law. After all, it all comes down to interpretations of the law, even for


    Italy. It's not an Italian law. Apple claiming that Italy is misinterpreting an Italian law would be funny, but this is not applicable here.



     EU directives are not laws, they are advisory notices that member states are required to base laws on. Hence they will be interpreted in slightly different ways throughout the EU, depending on existing laws in that country.


     


    Assuming that the button on your phone has not failed as a result of abuse IMO, O2 should be obliged to repair it for free. It is reasonable to accept that a button will last  2 years, if it doesn't then you can argue that the button was of inferior quality, ie. was faulty from the day that you purchased it.


     


    Quality control assumes that not all components are created equal. Manufacturers have "acceptable" failure rates. They know that, for example, 0.1% of products will never work, 2% will fail after 12 months and 7% will fail after 24 months. The numbers that i have chosen are arbitrary and plucked out of the air, never-the-less, the person selling you a product knows that there is a chance that you will get a duff product. The better manufacturers will take this into account when returns arise. The less scrupulous ones will spin company line BS about you having misused the product.


     


    I am not familiar with German law but suggest that you do the following


     


    1. Contact O2 and tell them that the phone is not "fit for purpose". Your contract  with O2 (and not Apple) is for 24 months, this includes a phone. It is reasonable to assume that the phone part of the contract should last as long as the contract. 


    2. Contact your equivalent of Trading Standards and ask them to pursue the case for you.


    3. Alternatively take advantage of any free legal advice from your home insurers or bank account (etc).


     


    TBH I do not completely understand the EU directive. Inspite of what Apple says, I  have seen many other sources that suggest that nature of the directive is to move the onus of proof to the vendor for the 24 month period.  eg


    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2057937/Your-rights-mobile-phone-breaks-contract.html

  • Reply 54 of 63
    hungoverhungover Posts: 602member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


     


     If you wish to be extra safe, then you should've gotten AppleCare. 



    No, if you want to be extra safe then pay a little more and get 3rd party insurance that will cover; failure, loss, accidental damage and theft.


     


    AppleCare is just an insurance policy which doesn't cover anything other than defects that should not occur within a 24 month period. Hence the point of the legal action in Italy...


     


    iPhone AppleCare= approx £70, 3rd party= approx £70


     


    Below is an example policy which costs the same as AppleCare. Can you spot the differences?


     


    http://www.insurance2go.co.uk/iphone-insurance


    Accidental Damage (Including Liquid Damage)

    Overseas cover (30 days a year)

    Cover for your Immediate Family (if over the age of 16)

    No contract (you can cancel the policy at any time)

    Immediate cover (our insurance starts on the day you sign up


    Theft

    Up to £1000 of Unauthorised Calls

    Mobile wallet protection

    LOSS


     


    AppleCare


    Telephone support


     


     

  • Reply 55 of 63
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,070member
    hungover wrote: »
    Below is an example policy which costs the same as AppleCare. Can you spot the differences?

    http://www.insurance2go.co.uk/iphone-insurance
    Accidental Damage (Including Liquid Damage)

    Overseas cover (30 days a year)

    Cover for your Immediate Family (if over the age of 16)

    No contract (you can cancel the policy at any time)
    Immediate cover (our insurance starts on the day you sign up

    Theft

    Up to £1000 of Unauthorised Calls

    Mobile wallet protection

    LOSS


    AppleCare
    Telephone support

     

    That is quite a bit oversimplified. Comparing a warranty extension to an insurance does simply not work.

    This insurer has quite some fine print and omissions:

    - Excess charges between 50 and 70 GBP for some incidents
    - You need to have paid at least a year worth of insurance fees to have certain claims processed
    - They reserve the right to give you 'refurbished' (by whom?) or similar devices (whose definition?), or pay out the remaining value (established by whom?) minus excess charges, minus whatever is missing to 12 months of payments. (Not saying they will do anything evil, just that these terms are nowhere clear cut.)
    - They do not mention covering regular, out of warranty, repairs. So, for regular repairs you still have to deal with the vendor, who, being a telco or warehouse, could leave you without a phone for weeks or months.
    - The insurance is tied to a combination of person and IMEI (plus immediate family members). It is not transferrable, like AppleCare, thus no addition to the resale value.
    - They do not detail any 'overseas cover', at least they do not explicitly say that they will help you abroad, only that they will e.g, accept police reports (and help you, when you are back home?). AppleCare will help you in every country where Apple sells iPhones.
    - If you have a defect (not caused by accidental damage) in the second year, you can go back to your dealer, and proof that the defect was present when you received the device. At least they do not seem to say anywhere that they would cover such repairs.

    ... and that is after looking at their page for less than two minutes. I am not saying it is a bad or mediocre offer, just that the comparison is pretty pointless.

    Even if you think:
    AppleCare is just an insurance policy which doesn't cover anything other than defects that should not occur within a 24 month period. Hence the point of the legal action in Italy...

    The reality is that the EU mandated implied warranty does explicitly put the customer in charge of proofing that a defect was present on delivery after exactly 6 months. Laws do not include 'should not' provisions normally. As the EU implied warranty has to be provided by the seller, not the manufacturer, you are bound to their service quality (after the first year of free AppleCare, in which you can freely go to the reseller or to Apple as you please).

    Apple's AppleCare service is normally:
    • Book a Genius bar appointment via the Website or the Apple Store App, no matter in which country you are
    • Go there
    • Walk out with a working identical new or Apple-refurbished product. No charges, no wait times, no questions asked.

    Extending this comfort to 24 months is a very good investment.

    The alternative, with your insurance model, is dealing with a reseller. My sister was without her Galaxy II for almost 7 weeks, paying 3 times shipping and handling and finally buying a new phone, as she needed one. The discussions with the carrier (and letters back and forth) are still ongoing after almost a quarter.

    And, where I am, I can add an iPhone to my household insurance for a fraction of 70 GBP (18 EUR actually) and they cover foreign stays for up to 6 weeks a year.
  • Reply 56 of 63
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,070member
    To put some light on the many assumptions and free interpretations here, I quote the information by the ECC below:

    [QUOTE]
    [B]When are you entitled to free repair or replacement?[/B]
    The seller is liable for the proper performance of your purchase for a period of at least 2 years. If the purchased item becomes defective within 6 months or if, within this period, the performance of the purchased item is not what you might reasonably expect of it, it is assumed that the lack of conformity already existed at the time of purchase. This does not apply, if the seller can prove that the defect is your own fault. [B]If the defect becomes apparent between 6 and 24 months after purchase, it is your responsibility to show that the defect or fault already existed at the time you purchased the item. [/B]You are entitled to repair or replacement of your purchase free of charge, if a defect becomes apparent through no fault of your own within a period of 2 years. Repair or replacement must take place within a reasonable period and without any serious inconvenience to you.
    [/QUOTE]

    Source: [URL=http://www.eccnl.eu/page/en/themes/Kopen-in-de-EU#par3]http://www.eccnl.eu/page/en/themes/Kopen-in-de-EU#par3[/URL]
  • Reply 57 of 63
    hungoverhungover Posts: 602member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post





    That is quite a bit oversimplified. Comparing a warranty extension to an insurance does simply not work.

    This insurer has quite some fine print and omissions:

    - Excess charges between 50 and 70 GBP for some incidents

    - You need to have paid at least a year worth of insurance fees to have certain claims processed

    - They reserve the right to give you 'refurbished' (by whom?) or similar devices (whose definition?), or pay out the remaining value (established by whom?) minus excess charges, minus whatever is missing to 12 months of payments. (Not saying they will do anything evil, just that these terms are nowhere clear cut.)

    - They do not mention covering regular, out of warranty, repairs. So, for regular repairs you still have to deal with the vendor, who, being a telco or warehouse, could leave you without a phone for weeks or months.

    - The insurance is tied to a combination of person and IMEI (plus immediate family members). It is not transferrable, like AppleCare, thus no addition to the resale value.

    - They do not detail any 'overseas cover', at least they do not explicitly say that they will help you abroad, only that they will e.g, accept police reports (and help you, when you are back home?). AppleCare will help you in every country where Apple sells iPhones.

    - If you have a defect (not caused by accidental damage) in the second year, you can go back to your dealer, and proof that the defect was present when you received the device. At least they do not seem to say anywhere that they would cover such repairs.

    ... and that is after looking at their page for less than two minutes. I am not saying it is a bad or mediocre offer, just that the comparison is pretty pointless.

    Even if you think:

    Quote:

    AppleCare is just an insurance policy which doesn't cover anything other than defects that should not occur within a 24 month period. Hence the point of the legal action in Italy...


    The reality is that the EU mandated implied warranty does explicitly put the customer in charge of proofing that a defect was present on delivery after exactly 6 months. Laws do not include 'should not' provisions normally. As the EU implied warranty has to be provided by the seller, not the manufacturer, you are bound to their service quality (after the first year of free AppleCare, in which you can freely go to the reseller or to Apple as you please).

    Apple's AppleCare service is normally:


    • Book a Genius bar appointment via the Website or the Apple Store App, no matter in which country you are


    • Go there


    • Walk out with a working identical new or Apple-refurbished product. No charges, no wait times, no questions asked.

    Extending this comfort to 24 months is a very good investment.

    The alternative, with your insurance model, is dealing with a reseller. My sister was without her Galaxy II for almost 7 weeks, paying 3 times shipping and handling and finally buying a new phone, as she needed one. The discussions with the carrier (and letters back and forth) are still ongoing after almost a quarter.

    And, where I am, I can add an iPhone to my household insurance for a fraction of 70 GBP (18 EUR actually) and they cover foreign stays for up to 6 weeks a year.


     If a paid for warranty extension is not insurance then what is it?  The vendor is telling you that there is a reasonable possibility that his product will fail between 12 and 24 months, he pitches a price that he considers will not leave him out of pocket and that is attractive enough to the customer to gamble on the phone breaking.


     


    I was not endorsing the insurance policy that I hyperlinked to. I was merely suggesting that the risk averse might be better off with 3rd party policies.


     


    I admit that I didn't take the time to read the T&Cs of the link I provided and accept that all policies have caveats. Even the AppleCare policy has caveats. If you purchase an iphone in the Europe you are not covered in the rest of the world  "Apple may restrict service for iPad and iPhone to the EEA and Switzerland."  Much of the confusion regarding AppleCare seems to stem from the fact that Applecare varries from country, not sure why it does but it is apple's perogative to vary terms as it sees fit (subject to national laws).


     


    You suggest that AppleCare is good value, IMO better value would be a free 2 year guarantee mirroring those offered by many of their competators.

  • Reply 58 of 63
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    hkz wrote: »
    No, Apple should warranty the phone for the life of the contract that comes along with it
    You didn't get a contract with Apple.
  • Reply 59 of 63
    hungoverhungover Posts: 602member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post





    You didn't get a contract with Apple.


     ???


     


    You can get an iphone in store with a contract but I guess technically however you are not buying it from Apple. Perhaps they are acting as agents

  • Reply 60 of 63
    hkzhkz Posts: 190member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

    You didn't get a contract with Apple.


     


    So what you're basically saying is that you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the conversation? Okay, thanks for letting us know.

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