This is an Apple forum, I come here to comment on Apple news. I don't really care about people who have other nefarious motives, such as environmentalists. Apple is in the business of making great computers, awesome devices and generating money. If somebody cares so much about people who can't afford a Mac that costs $599, then they should go and visit a welfare forum instead, where they can speak with likeminded people, in my humble opinion.
I don't think that anybody should criticize my comment where I state that $599 for a Mac Mini is cheap. And along comes these ridiculous people with stories about how the majority of the world's population doesn't even make that? So what? lol.......That's completely off topic and a diversion from what matters.
I, like everyone else here will spend my money as I see fit and suffer the consequences if I get arrested for aiding a panhandler. I can afford the bail.
Sure, you are free to do whatever you like, as long as you are also prepared to suffer the consequences for your actions. You wrote that you are prepared, so there shouldn't be any problem then.
As many of us suspected, Apple is ahead of EPEAT standards. The naysayers can say what they will, but soon enough, the standards will come to where Apple is.
It is sad though that the haters never bother to make a case for what the environmental footprint of non-Apple PCs -- which they claim they'll abandon Apple for -- is.
A bunch of hypocrites as usual, but what else is new.
The government is not much of a market for Apple computers anyway, and as the spokesperson points out, EPEAT is useless when it comes to smartphones and tablets. Many of these environmental standards are old and moribund, and need to be updated or jettisoned. Few of them address complex issues such as the environmental footprint over the life cycle. I, for one, am glad that Apple is pushing envelope on this.
You should never give any money to beggars. It's also illegal to do so in certain places. I don't give a dime to any beggars ever, no matter what.
I can't located the article anymore, but here in San Francisco there was a homeless man arrested years ago for sleeping on Market Street and refusing to leave. To the surprise of the police officers, the homeless man refused to leave because he didn't want to leave his brand-new Harley Davidson motorcycle unattended. After a lengthy discussion with the homeless man to determine how he has come to own what was a very expensive motorcycle, it turns out the prolific panhandler saved all of the money he collected on the streets over the years to purchase the motorcycle.
He didn't use the money to better himself, get off the streets, etc... he used the money given to him by the generosity of other people (under false pretense) to buy a luxury item he never should have purchased. Instead, my city (and my taxes) continued to provide support him and his lifestyle.
After reading that article, I decided to not give any more money to homeless folks, and I don't regret it at all. Like everything else, leave it to the 1% to ruin it for everyone else.
This statement by Apple is just PR spin. It provides no inisight and only indicates that Apple feels its already doing enough.
But the sheep won't care.
I hope the education market takes note of this change and further abandons Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igxqrrl
And the true believers will swallow this statement from Apple's PR department. Hook, line, and sinker.
The trolls, whiners, and iHaters always come out in full force spewing their propaganda crap simply for the sake of spreading hate. Drive by troll posters.
Where will you be when the standards are updated to reflect changes in manufacturing and Apple is once again back to where it has always been, which is being the leader in product recycling??? Oh right, you'll just spin another story to further your hateful agenda.
After reading that article, I decided to not give any more money to homeless folks, and I don't regret it at all. Like everything else, leave it to the 1% to ruin it for everyone else.
Good for you! I also believe that it's far greater than 1%.
I bet that many homeless people could afford a Mac Mini, and here, people attack me for suggesting that $599 for a Mac Mini is cheap. lol.
[" url="/t/151205/apple-defends-decision-to-withdraw-from-epeat-certification#post_2144530"]Sure, you are free to do whatever you like, as long as you are also prepared to suffer the consequences for your actions. You wrote that you are prepared, so there shouldn't be any problem then.
The point I was attempting to make which has obviously fallen on deaf ears in your case is that you can't go around telling people to work harder or to do this or never do this with their money. That is self righteous BS. You are completely over the line in almost every one of your comments in terms of judging other people and ridiculing those less fortunate. You exemplify everything I dispise in human nature and with respect to your post history it doesn't matter how pro-Apple you are, I still find you an obnoxious, dspicable human and I may be giving you too much credit in that last classification.
You mean there's more to environmental responsibility than how easy it is for a Neanderthal with a screwdriver to disassemble an old laptop for recycling? No. That's the only measure of environmental responsibility. Let's hate Apple.
Not so fast.
I've said before on this board, a product can be repairable or recyclable, or both, or neither. An open beer can cannot be repaired or reused for its original purpose. It is a disposable product. It can, however, be recycled 100%, economically. All the aluminum used to make it is recovered, so the production cycle is closed. No mining or refining are required (and their associated energy cost and direct pollution of water and so on) except to add stock. If use of aluminum cans decreases, the aluminum can be used elsewhere.
It is legitimate for a company such as Apple to attempt a business model where they make products like disposable beer cans, on whatever product life cycle they choose that their customers will be willing to accept. It's a valid design tradeoff.
It is absolutely not acceptable, in a world with finite resources, for a company to settle on a business model where they make products that are disposable that cannot be economically recycled. Apple sells tens of millions of devices, so they would be throwing away tens of millions of pounds of aluminum, and many other metals, creating a steady demand for more mineral mining. These days, when the easy mines are all gone, mining is nearly in all cases open pit and low grade ores are processed. This requires huge quantities of water and energy while obliterating habitat wherever it is done.
This point is not the same as iFixit. They demand repairability. I say it's a nice to have, but the showstopper is recyclability. I see no evidence from Apple that the retina MacBook Pro can be economically recycled. Apple says it recycles and "responsibly disposes", but these are two very different things.
If it can't be really recycled, I won't buy it and neither should anybody else who cares about the planet they are leaving to their children. Apple does not need to abide by EPEAT, but they need to credibly prove that their products will be recycled and not dumped. They have not done this for the non EPEAT products. Till they do, I cannot in good conscience buy a retina MBP or similar new products. Not because EPEAT was perfect, but because it was an objective measure by a third party.
The new MacBook Pro has nothing except extremely vague marketing speak.
As many of us suspected, Apple is ahead of EPEAT standards. The naysayers can say what they will, but soon enough, the standards will come to where Apple is.
It is sad though that the haters never bother to make a case for what the environmental footprint of non-Apple PCs -- which they claim they'll abandon Apple for -- is.
A bunch of hypocrites as usual, but what else is new.
The government is not much of a market for Apple computers anyway, and as the spokesperson points out, EPEAT is useless when it comes to smartphones and tablets. Many of these environmental standards are old and moribund, and need to be updated or jettisoned. Few of them address complex issues such as the environmental footprint over the life cycle. I, for one, am glad that Apple is pushing envelope on this.
Exactly. Instead of talking a good story, Apple actually does it. The published figure for recycling of Apple computers is roughly twice the industry average. So who's doing more for the environment - a company that recycles twice as many computers as the industry average or the company that lets you take apart your computer without having to buy a $2 screwdriver, but has a relatively low recycling rate?
This statement by Apple is just PR spin. It provides no inisight and only indicates that Apple feels its already doing enough.
But the sheep won't care.
Exactly. I don't give a sweet damn. Like the bulk of the market. Sometimes reality's tough like that.
Don't mind me, I'm just making space here for a new Retina MBP.
If somebody cares so much about people who can't afford a Mac that costs $599, then they should go and visit a welfare forum instead, where they can speak with likeminded people, in my humble opinion.
I don't think that anybody should criticize my comment where I state that $599 for a Mac Mini is cheap. And along comes these ridiculous people with stories about how the majority of the world's population doesn't even make that? So what? lol.......That's completely off topic and a diversion from what matters.
Dude, why don't you look up the word humble in the dictionary. Nothing that you type in any one of your posts even comes remotely close to being humble. And by the type of adjectives you use in your sentences in an attempt to color an otherwise monotonous comment, it's pretty obvious that you filled out many pages of Mad Libs as a youngster.
I've never come across a forum poster that is so predictable, crass, relentless and tiresome.
Mods---I will gladly take my punishment for venting because, for me, it was worth it.
As many of us suspected, Apple is ahead of EPEAT standards. The naysayers can say what they will, but soon enough, the standards will come to where Apple is.
It is sad though that the haters never bother to make a case for what the environmental footprint of non-Apple PCs -- which they claim they'll abandon Apple for -- is.
A bunch of hypocrites as usual, but what else is new.
The government is not much of a market for Apple computers anyway, and as the spokesperson points out, EPEAT is useless when it comes to smartphones and tablets. Many of these environmental standards are old and moribund, and need to be updated or jettisoned. Few of them address complex issues such as the environmental footprint over the life cycle. I, for one, am glad that Apple is pushing envelope on this.
If the standards need to be updated, then Apple should propose they be updated. If Apple wants to have its own standards, then Apple should publish them so we know what they are. Truth is, we don't know what Apple standards for recycling are. The questions are simple and Apple should answer them:
What percent by weight of an Apple computer, or any other Apple device, does the company actually recycle?
What percent by weight of the retina MacBook Pro does Apple plan to recycle? What percent of metals?
Who will audit the above claims, whatever they might be?
What are Apple's long term goals for these numbers?
This is simple information. We are not getting it. We are getting a lot of marketing speak but no numbers. Show me the numbers.
It has nothing to do with politics. I've followed Apple for a long time, and I bet that most people never thought that they'd ever release a machine that was that cheap.
I can understand people saying that $4,000 - $5,000 is not too affordable, but $599 does not fall into that category. I don't want Apple's products to get too cheap, because then they're going to start skimping on features and quality, like everybody else does. If somebody can't afford a Mac, then too bad, either start saving up, or buy some bottom of the barrel PC. You get what you pay for.
I disagree with you regarding recycling, but I agree with you here. $599 is cheap. Very cheap if you understand what it's buying. And I don't want Apple to get too cheap either. If I liked cheap crap, they would have never become my favorite brand.
The point I was attempting to make which has obviously fallen on deaf ears in your case is that you can't go around telling people to work harder or to do this or never do this with their money.
Sure I can, it's called having an opinion. That is in stark contrast to environmentalists for example, who try to dictate and force other people and companies to do what they want.
Good for you! I also believe that it's far greater than 1%.
I bet that many homeless people could afford a Mac Mini, and here, people attack me for suggesting that $599 for a Mac Mini is cheap. lol.
Nobody is attacking you for suggesting that a $599 Mac is relatively cheap. People are rightfully attacking your repulsive, narrow minded, ignorant comment that [people] "should work a little harder." As if anyone in the world who can't spare $599 is clearly lazy and didn't hit the jackpot and grow up in the US and live in NY.
[" url="/t/151205/apple-defends-decision-to-withdraw-from-epeat-certification#post_2144550"]
Sure I can, it's called having an opinion. That is in stark contrast to environmentalists for example, who try to dictate and force other people and companies to do what they want.
Yeah we know you 'technically' can but a person with no conscious can't live with themselves and ultimately dies alone after years of unhappiness. You can choose to live however you like but you better stay locked an loaded because people like you tend to make enemies. Not making any threats because I personally couldn't care less how your life turns out. Just suggesting you could potentially improve the outcome if you readjusted your attitude.
Nothing that you type in any one of your posts even comes remotely close to being humble.
My usage of that particular word was obviously intended in an ironic and humorous way. I know that I don't come across as humble on this forum, but in real life, I am a pretty nice guy most of the time, unless somebody is my foe.
If the standards need to be updated, then Apple should propose they be updated. If Apple wants to have its own standards, then Apple should publish them so we know what they are. Truth is, we don't know what Apple standards for recycling are. The questions are simple and Apple should answer them:
What percent by weight of an Apple computer, or any other Apple device, does the company actually recycle?
What percent by weight of the retina MacBook Pro does Apple plan to recycle? What percent of metals?
Who will audit the above claims, whatever they might be?
What are Apple's long term goals for these numbers?
This is simple information. We are not getting it. We are getting a lot of marketing speak but no numbers. Show me the numbers.
Apple seems to detail how they deal with the environment and recycling quite well on their site. They've even talked about it in their keynotes, as I recall.
Can more be done, sure? You ask some excellent questions but I don't know about any other tech company that lists this info and these questions were unanswered last week when they had 39 machines with EPEAT certifications. But that's all beside the point of this article.
Now we have people (most people who follow Apple's every move yet oddly hate Apple' every move) that are up in arms about the EPEAT ratings removal and yet those same machines that were on the site last week are still the same machines whenever. That just means people are being irrational.
Consider that the least popular products sold by Apple are Macs and their most popular are the iPhone and iPad which don't have any EPEAT certification process and yet Apple has still sought to be environmentally friendly for those devices. Doesn't that show that EPEAT is flawed and that Apple is doing more than is required by law? Now I say required but the truth is that being environmentally friendly is just good business up to a certain point so Apple should get any pat on the back unless there is something truly above-and-beyond.
You can choose to live however you like but you better stay locked an loaded because people like you tend to make enemies.
Certain people are bound to make enemies regardless, it might be because of a certain competitive field that they work in, or because they're successful or for a number of other reasons etc. That comes with the territory. I am referring to real life of course, not the fake online world.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul
This is an Apple forum, I come here to comment on Apple news. I don't really care about people who have other nefarious motives, such as environmentalists. Apple is in the business of making great computers, awesome devices and generating money. If somebody cares so much about people who can't afford a Mac that costs $599, then they should go and visit a welfare forum instead, where they can speak with likeminded people, in my humble opinion.
I don't think that anybody should criticize my comment where I state that $599 for a Mac Mini is cheap. And along comes these ridiculous people with stories about how the majority of the world's population doesn't even make that? So what? lol.......That's completely off topic and a diversion from what matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I, like everyone else here will spend my money as I see fit and suffer the consequences if I get arrested for aiding a panhandler. I can afford the bail.
Sure, you are free to do whatever you like, as long as you are also prepared to suffer the consequences for your actions. You wrote that you are prepared, so there shouldn't be any problem then.
As many of us suspected, Apple is ahead of EPEAT standards. The naysayers can say what they will, but soon enough, the standards will come to where Apple is.
It is sad though that the haters never bother to make a case for what the environmental footprint of non-Apple PCs -- which they claim they'll abandon Apple for -- is.
A bunch of hypocrites as usual, but what else is new.
The government is not much of a market for Apple computers anyway, and as the spokesperson points out, EPEAT is useless when it comes to smartphones and tablets. Many of these environmental standards are old and moribund, and need to be updated or jettisoned. Few of them address complex issues such as the environmental footprint over the life cycle. I, for one, am glad that Apple is pushing envelope on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
You should never give any money to beggars. It's also illegal to do so in certain places. I don't give a dime to any beggars ever, no matter what.
I can't located the article anymore, but here in San Francisco there was a homeless man arrested years ago for sleeping on Market Street and refusing to leave. To the surprise of the police officers, the homeless man refused to leave because he didn't want to leave his brand-new Harley Davidson motorcycle unattended. After a lengthy discussion with the homeless man to determine how he has come to own what was a very expensive motorcycle, it turns out the prolific panhandler saved all of the money he collected on the streets over the years to purchase the motorcycle.
He didn't use the money to better himself, get off the streets, etc... he used the money given to him by the generosity of other people (under false pretense) to buy a luxury item he never should have purchased. Instead, my city (and my taxes) continued to provide support him and his lifestyle.
After reading that article, I decided to not give any more money to homeless folks, and I don't regret it at all. Like everything else, leave it to the 1% to ruin it for everyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Doesn't matter. It won't satisfy the haters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizSandford
This statement by Apple is just PR spin. It provides no inisight and only indicates that Apple feels its already doing enough.
But the sheep won't care.
I hope the education market takes note of this change and further abandons Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igxqrrl
And the true believers will swallow this statement from Apple's PR department. Hook, line, and sinker.
The trolls, whiners, and iHaters always come out in full force spewing their propaganda crap simply for the sake of spreading hate. Drive by troll posters.
Where will you be when the standards are updated to reflect changes in manufacturing and Apple is once again back to where it has always been, which is being the leader in product recycling??? Oh right, you'll just spin another story to further your hateful agenda.
Go away you sad trolls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
After reading that article, I decided to not give any more money to homeless folks, and I don't regret it at all. Like everything else, leave it to the 1% to ruin it for everyone else.
Good for you! I also believe that it's far greater than 1%.
I bet that many homeless people could afford a Mac Mini, and here, people attack me for suggesting that $599 for a Mac Mini is cheap. lol.
The point I was attempting to make which has obviously fallen on deaf ears in your case is that you can't go around telling people to work harder or to do this or never do this with their money. That is self righteous BS. You are completely over the line in almost every one of your comments in terms of judging other people and ridiculing those less fortunate. You exemplify everything I dispise in human nature and with respect to your post history it doesn't matter how pro-Apple you are, I still find you an obnoxious, dspicable human and I may be giving you too much credit in that last classification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
You mean there's more to environmental responsibility than how easy it is for a Neanderthal with a screwdriver to disassemble an old laptop for recycling? No. That's the only measure of environmental responsibility. Let's hate Apple.
Not so fast.
I've said before on this board, a product can be repairable or recyclable, or both, or neither. An open beer can cannot be repaired or reused for its original purpose. It is a disposable product. It can, however, be recycled 100%, economically. All the aluminum used to make it is recovered, so the production cycle is closed. No mining or refining are required (and their associated energy cost and direct pollution of water and so on) except to add stock. If use of aluminum cans decreases, the aluminum can be used elsewhere.
It is legitimate for a company such as Apple to attempt a business model where they make products like disposable beer cans, on whatever product life cycle they choose that their customers will be willing to accept. It's a valid design tradeoff.
It is absolutely not acceptable, in a world with finite resources, for a company to settle on a business model where they make products that are disposable that cannot be economically recycled. Apple sells tens of millions of devices, so they would be throwing away tens of millions of pounds of aluminum, and many other metals, creating a steady demand for more mineral mining. These days, when the easy mines are all gone, mining is nearly in all cases open pit and low grade ores are processed. This requires huge quantities of water and energy while obliterating habitat wherever it is done.
This point is not the same as iFixit. They demand repairability. I say it's a nice to have, but the showstopper is recyclability. I see no evidence from Apple that the retina MacBook Pro can be economically recycled. Apple says it recycles and "responsibly disposes", but these are two very different things.
If it can't be really recycled, I won't buy it and neither should anybody else who cares about the planet they are leaving to their children. Apple does not need to abide by EPEAT, but they need to credibly prove that their products will be recycled and not dumped. They have not done this for the non EPEAT products. Till they do, I cannot in good conscience buy a retina MBP or similar new products. Not because EPEAT was perfect, but because it was an objective measure by a third party.
The new MacBook Pro has nothing except extremely vague marketing speak.
Exactly. Instead of talking a good story, Apple actually does it. The published figure for recycling of Apple computers is roughly twice the industry average. So who's doing more for the environment - a company that recycles twice as many computers as the industry average or the company that lets you take apart your computer without having to buy a $2 screwdriver, but has a relatively low recycling rate?
Exactly. I don't give a sweet damn. Like the bulk of the market. Sometimes reality's tough like that.
Don't mind me, I'm just making space here for a new Retina MBP.
Yours *very* truly,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
If somebody cares so much about people who can't afford a Mac that costs $599, then they should go and visit a welfare forum instead, where they can speak with likeminded people, in my humble opinion.
I don't think that anybody should criticize my comment where I state that $599 for a Mac Mini is cheap. And along comes these ridiculous people with stories about how the majority of the world's population doesn't even make that? So what? lol.......That's completely off topic and a diversion from what matters.
Dude, why don't you look up the word humble in the dictionary. Nothing that you type in any one of your posts even comes remotely close to being humble. And by the type of adjectives you use in your sentences in an attempt to color an otherwise monotonous comment, it's pretty obvious that you filled out many pages of Mad Libs as a youngster.
I've never come across a forum poster that is so predictable, crass, relentless and tiresome.
Mods---I will gladly take my punishment for venting because, for me, it was worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
As many of us suspected, Apple is ahead of EPEAT standards. The naysayers can say what they will, but soon enough, the standards will come to where Apple is.
It is sad though that the haters never bother to make a case for what the environmental footprint of non-Apple PCs -- which they claim they'll abandon Apple for -- is.
A bunch of hypocrites as usual, but what else is new.
The government is not much of a market for Apple computers anyway, and as the spokesperson points out, EPEAT is useless when it comes to smartphones and tablets. Many of these environmental standards are old and moribund, and need to be updated or jettisoned. Few of them address complex issues such as the environmental footprint over the life cycle. I, for one, am glad that Apple is pushing envelope on this.
If the standards need to be updated, then Apple should propose they be updated. If Apple wants to have its own standards, then Apple should publish them so we know what they are. Truth is, we don't know what Apple standards for recycling are. The questions are simple and Apple should answer them:
What percent by weight of an Apple computer, or any other Apple device, does the company actually recycle?
What percent by weight of the retina MacBook Pro does Apple plan to recycle? What percent of metals?
Who will audit the above claims, whatever they might be?
What are Apple's long term goals for these numbers?
This is simple information. We are not getting it. We are getting a lot of marketing speak but no numbers. Show me the numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
It has nothing to do with politics. I've followed Apple for a long time, and I bet that most people never thought that they'd ever release a machine that was that cheap.
I can understand people saying that $4,000 - $5,000 is not too affordable, but $599 does not fall into that category. I don't want Apple's products to get too cheap, because then they're going to start skimping on features and quality, like everybody else does. If somebody can't afford a Mac, then too bad, either start saving up, or buy some bottom of the barrel PC. You get what you pay for.
I disagree with you regarding recycling, but I agree with you here. $599 is cheap. Very cheap if you understand what it's buying. And I don't want Apple to get too cheap either. If I liked cheap crap, they would have never become my favorite brand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
The point I was attempting to make which has obviously fallen on deaf ears in your case is that you can't go around telling people to work harder or to do this or never do this with their money.
Sure I can, it's called having an opinion. That is in stark contrast to environmentalists for example, who try to dictate and force other people and companies to do what they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Good for you! I also believe that it's far greater than 1%.
I bet that many homeless people could afford a Mac Mini, and here, people attack me for suggesting that $599 for a Mac Mini is cheap. lol.
Nobody is attacking you for suggesting that a $599 Mac is relatively cheap. People are rightfully attacking your repulsive, narrow minded, ignorant comment that [people] "should work a little harder." As if anyone in the world who can't spare $599 is clearly lazy and didn't hit the jackpot and grow up in the US and live in NY.
Yeah we know you 'technically' can but a person with no conscious can't live with themselves and ultimately dies alone after years of unhappiness. You can choose to live however you like but you better stay locked an loaded because people like you tend to make enemies. Not making any threats because I personally couldn't care less how your life turns out. Just suggesting you could potentially improve the outcome if you readjusted your attitude.
Watch plenty of Family Guy to spare the time esp the one with the Tea Party Peter...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter
Nothing that you type in any one of your posts even comes remotely close to being humble.
My usage of that particular word was obviously intended in an ironic and humorous way. I know that I don't come across as humble on this forum, but in real life, I am a pretty nice guy most of the time, unless somebody is my foe.
Apple seems to detail how they deal with the environment and recycling quite well on their site. They've even talked about it in their keynotes, as I recall.
Can more be done, sure? You ask some excellent questions but I don't know about any other tech company that lists this info and these questions were unanswered last week when they had 39 machines with EPEAT certifications. But that's all beside the point of this article.
Now we have people (most people who follow Apple's every move yet oddly hate Apple' every move) that are up in arms about the EPEAT ratings removal and yet those same machines that were on the site last week are still the same machines whenever. That just means people are being irrational.
Consider that the least popular products sold by Apple are Macs and their most popular are the iPhone and iPad which don't have any EPEAT certification process and yet Apple has still sought to be environmentally friendly for those devices. Doesn't that show that EPEAT is flawed and that Apple is doing more than is required by law? Now I say required but the truth is that being environmentally friendly is just good business up to a certain point so Apple should get any pat on the back unless there is something truly above-and-beyond.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
You can choose to live however you like but you better stay locked an loaded because people like you tend to make enemies.
Certain people are bound to make enemies regardless, it might be because of a certain competitive field that they work in, or because they're successful or for a number of other reasons etc. That comes with the territory. I am referring to real life of course, not the fake online world.