They need to just charge people for data. They just want to get more fees than their service is worth. That's what it sounds like.
And stand in the way of innovation and progress by erecting artificial financial barriers. The carriers were given licenses to spectrum to promote the public good. It's time the Feds crack down on them and tell them to get out of the way and build reliable networks, or lose their licenses. Someone else will be happy to have their spectrum.
Gimme a break. It's just crazy to put Apple's customer satisfaction in the same light as the telco. You lose all credibility making a comparison like that. All businesses do worry about the bottom line but the telcos in the US are way beyond profit into greed. Apple maybe a lot of things but I can't, from experience, say they are greedy. Some here would but those are just the Apple whiners.
False. If contract is up you can keep using your phone. No one forces you to upgrade. If you want to change your phone you can just purchase a phone via third party (full price). Who says you need to always be on contract.
Phones are the cheapest part of owning a smartphone.
But macxpress (whom you responded to) did not even mention phones at all.
If you have unlimited data, when you current contract is up, you will no longer have unlimited data. You will have to choose another data plan, even if you do not go on contract. You will not be allowed to keep unlimited data.
Charging-extra for FaceTime capability over 4G is a hugely moronic move if there is truth to that rumor. If I pay $x/mo for a 2GB data plan, who the hell cares how I use that allotment? That would be a seriously slippery slope the telecoms would be on if they pulled that stunt.
Ummm we have been riding that slippery slope for some time now. Both AT&T and Verizon HAS been pulling the stunt for sometime now nickel dime-ing us and charging extra for how you use your data. The data plan market pricing in the US is collusive IMO now and until customers are willing to stop buying telco's greed and extortion, we in the US will be raped by US telcos. You can rationalize how they have to make money but until consumers put action to their whine, nothing will change. Can you NOT use the phone long enough to send the message "I'm not going to take it anymore?"
The FCC really has to step in here and give the carriers a choice: start following principles of network neutrality, or lose their license to the public airwaves. What's next, you have to pay for a data plan but pay extra to access the Web?
Don't forget, this is yet another area where Google (in conspiracy with Verizon) has plotted to harm consumers.
Not with this. They don't work with a best effort design. You need specific protocols active and they need QoS to ensure they get priority over all other packets being sent. There is absolutely nothing neutral about that.
FaceTime operates over a data network, and is not part of their voice minutes. FaceTime can be done over WiFi or hopefully soon, the 4G network. Just with iMessage, it would not be that much of a stretch for Apple to forward voice calls as data, further denying the telecoms future revenue. All this coming down is the primary reason imho that the telecoms are doing away with "unlimited" data plans. It would not surprise me if in 5 years, most (if not all) communications on cell phones will be primarily VoIP-based.
Charging-extra for FaceTime capability over 4G is a hugely moronic move if there is truth to that rumor. If I pay $x/mo for a 2GB data plan, who the hell cares how I use that allotment? That would be a seriously slippery slope the telecoms would be on if they pulled that stunt.
It's a slippery slope and a tricky situation that could backfire but so far the carriers don't seem to be negatively affected by the biggest scam of all: SMS. I can't believe how much people pay for such small amounts of data. It doesn't even have the argument that carriers do have to invest and retool a network to accommodate a high yield of FaceTime protocol users. SMS is a best effort service. On top of that the data is sent over the down time between the carrier line. There only real cost is maintaining the data servers but the amount of data is so minimal per text that we're not talking a large investment and certainly nothing that comes close to 20¢ per SMS.
I do think they will charge for FaceTime but I think it will be a flat rate. That means it would still use your monthly data plan for sending and receiving but it would cost you x-amount for the privilege. There are pros and cons to this.
I hope folks are not naive enough to think this wasn't coming. Wait till the isp's start nickel and diming folks that are streaming netflix. And they say disks are going by the way of the dinosaur. At least you don't get charged extra for them.
I hope folks are not naive enough to think this wasn't coming. Wait till the isp's start nickel and diming folks that are streaming netflix. And they say disks are going by the way of the dinosaur. At least you don't get charged extra for them.
They might try but video streaming is inherently different from any realtime data. With video streaming — even if the video is "live" — it can maintain a buffer so that issues with the network won't be noticed until a threshold is met. This simply isn't the case with video conferencing and VoIP. The data is UDP to reduce overhead and there is no check to make sure that all packets have been received and pass inspection but if there is anything wrong there is nothing you can do about it in a live conversation.
Verizon will no longer be honoring grandfathered unlimited data plans once the contract is up. You will have to select a new data package. So this will only be true until the turn-around of customers contracts who have unlimited data.
Not true. They will honor it, but they will no longer subsidize your new phone. If you want to keep unlimited data then you have to pony up all the cash for your new phone.
I agree. When I bought my first iPhone with AT&T, they asked me which plan I wanted. One of the choices was "Unlimited." That's what I selected and am paying for. Bandwidth is bandwidth. Unlimited means just that...U-N-L-I-M-I-T-E-D. Since AT&T decided that that that option was not in their best interest, they have chosen to "Throttle" my usage, charge for multi-device access if I decide to enable my "Personal Hotspot" between my other devices, and now charge me for FaceTime bandwidth if I choose to make a call through the cellular system.
Seriously AT&T??? WTF??? You offered, I accepted, now you're reneging. Suck it up and do the right thing.
The FCC really has to step in here and give the carriers a choice: start following principles of network neutrality, or lose their license to the public airwaves. What's next, you have to pay for a data plan but pay extra to access the Web?
Don't forget, this is yet another area where Google (in conspiracy with Verizon) has plotted to harm consumers.
I wonder what network neutrality has to do with 3G and cellphone data, but I guess I should not hold my breath yet. Moreover Google is a proponent not an opponent to network neutrality, so really I don't understand your 'point', if any.
What you seem to forget is that it was actually Apple working with AT&T to block what should have been already included -paid with your data plan- tethering, and that the same tandem is now hypothetically working to make it possible to charge you over facetime on 3G.
Not true. They will honor it, but they will no longer subsidize your new phone. If you want to keep unlimited data then you have to pony up all the cash for your new phone.
And also never upgrade to an LTE phone, as a new LTE data plan will also require you to give up your grandfathered status.
Gimme a break. It's just crazy to put Apple's customer satisfaction in the same light as the telco. You lose all credibility making a comparison like that. All businesses do worry about the bottom line but the telcos in the US are way beyond profit into greed. Apple maybe a lot of things but I can't, from experience, say they are greedy. Some here would but those are just the Apple whiners.
I don't understand all this hate on the telcos. I personally as well as our company have tons of services from AT&T and any time I have had to deal with customer services or support a real person has been on the phone within seconds and they have been knowledgeable and courteous and offered clear professional advice and solutions. I personally had Verizon prior to the iPhone and I found their service also exceeded my expectations especially compared to my experience with the likes of TWC. I think AT&T has every bit as quality support and customer service as Apple, maybe more so. For example in my experience you can't always get the right person on the phone at Apple. It took me literally 7 days to get a refund for a purchase that I tried to return using their online customer service.
I'll admit the voice call quality with AT&T leaves a bit to be desired but I'm not sure how to qualify that. Verizon voice quality was a bit better as I recall. I am very satisfied with my LTE hotspot from AT&T.
Why would you use Facetime for audio only - hello, they call it "cellular phone service" - that old favorite we all used to use a lot, unless you are bumping up against the antiquated call minutes limit, and need to use wifi on facetime? This is what makes it so confusing to consumers - trying to get around the antiquated pricing structure that we now have, while trying not to get gauged too badly by the shark carriers.
This way you could get a data only plan! I know in Canada, 5GB plans for iPad are $35 so this would be significantly cheaper than me having to get voice, text and data for $60 a month. Sure, you wouldn't be able to send all your blackberry and Android friends texts or calls, but they will switch eventually. And if all else fails, tweet them or message them on Facebook lol
Comments
They need to just charge people for data. They just want to get more fees than their service is worth. That's what it sounds like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU
They need to just charge people for data. They just want to get more fees than their service is worth. That's what it sounds like.
And stand in the way of innovation and progress by erecting artificial financial barriers. The carriers were given licenses to spectrum to promote the public good. It's time the Feds crack down on them and tell them to get out of the way and build reliable networks, or lose their licenses. Someone else will be happy to have their spectrum.
Such bullshit.
Why would I pay AT&T for this if I could use a different service that does the same damn thing for free?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
The carriers were given licenses to spectrum to promote the public good.
I thought they bought the spectrum to conduct business for a profit.
Those two goals are not inherently mutually exclusive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations
Purely speculation folks.
My guess is that the carriers want to formerly "warn" users before they use this feature as it will chew up MBs faster than any other App.
I would tend to agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
[telcos] ....no different than Apple.
Gimme a break. It's just crazy to put Apple's customer satisfaction in the same light as the telco. You lose all credibility making a comparison like that. All businesses do worry about the bottom line but the telcos in the US are way beyond profit into greed. Apple maybe a lot of things but I can't, from experience, say they are greedy. Some here would but those are just the Apple whiners.
If you have unlimited data, when you current contract is up, you will no longer have unlimited data. You will have to choose another data plan, even if you do not go on contract. You will not be allowed to keep unlimited data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
Charging-extra for FaceTime capability over 4G is a hugely moronic move if there is truth to that rumor. If I pay $x/mo for a 2GB data plan, who the hell cares how I use that allotment? That would be a seriously slippery slope the telecoms would be on if they pulled that stunt.
Ummm we have been riding that slippery slope for some time now. Both AT&T and Verizon HAS been pulling the stunt for sometime now nickel dime-ing us and charging extra for how you use your data. The data plan market pricing in the US is collusive IMO now and until customers are willing to stop buying telco's greed and extortion, we in the US will be raped by US telcos. You can rationalize how they have to make money but until consumers put action to their whine, nothing will change. Can you NOT use the phone long enough to send the message "I'm not going to take it anymore?"
Not with this. They don't work with a best effort design. You need specific protocols active and they need QoS to ensure they get priority over all other packets being sent. There is absolutely nothing neutral about that.
It's a slippery slope and a tricky situation that could backfire but so far the carriers don't seem to be negatively affected by the biggest scam of all: SMS. I can't believe how much people pay for such small amounts of data. It doesn't even have the argument that carriers do have to invest and retool a network to accommodate a high yield of FaceTime protocol users. SMS is a best effort service. On top of that the data is sent over the down time between the carrier line. There only real cost is maintaining the data servers but the amount of data is so minimal per text that we're not talking a large investment and certainly nothing that comes close to 20¢ per SMS.
I do think they will charge for FaceTime but I think it will be a flat rate. That means it would still use your monthly data plan for sending and receiving but it would cost you x-amount for the privilege. There are pros and cons to this.
I hope folks are not naive enough to think this wasn't coming. Wait till the isp's start nickel and diming folks that are streaming netflix. And they say disks are going by the way of the dinosaur. At least you don't get charged extra for them.
They might try but video streaming is inherently different from any realtime data. With video streaming — even if the video is "live" — it can maintain a buffer so that issues with the network won't be noticed until a threshold is met. This simply isn't the case with video conferencing and VoIP. The data is UDP to reduce overhead and there is no check to make sure that all packets have been received and pass inspection but if there is anything wrong there is nothing you can do about it in a live conversation.
(1) anyone have a decently accurate figure on the typical data rate that FaceTime uses?
(2) This is hardly surprising. AT&T would charge users for breathing if they could find a way to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
Verizon will no longer be honoring grandfathered unlimited data plans once the contract is up. You will have to select a new data package. So this will only be true until the turn-around of customers contracts who have unlimited data.
Not true. They will honor it, but they will no longer subsidize your new phone. If you want to keep unlimited data then you have to pony up all the cash for your new phone.
I agree. When I bought my first iPhone with AT&T, they asked me which plan I wanted. One of the choices was "Unlimited." That's what I selected and am paying for. Bandwidth is bandwidth. Unlimited means just that...U-N-L-I-M-I-T-E-D. Since AT&T decided that that that option was not in their best interest, they have chosen to "Throttle" my usage, charge for multi-device access if I decide to enable my "Personal Hotspot" between my other devices, and now charge me for FaceTime bandwidth if I choose to make a call through the cellular system.
Seriously AT&T??? WTF??? You offered, I accepted, now you're reneging. Suck it up and do the right thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
The FCC really has to step in here and give the carriers a choice: start following principles of network neutrality, or lose their license to the public airwaves. What's next, you have to pay for a data plan but pay extra to access the Web?
Don't forget, this is yet another area where Google (in conspiracy with Verizon) has plotted to harm consumers.
I wonder what network neutrality has to do with 3G and cellphone data, but I guess I should not hold my breath yet. Moreover Google is a proponent not an opponent to network neutrality, so really I don't understand your 'point', if any.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality
http://www.google.com/help/netneutrality_letter.html
What you seem to forget is that it was actually Apple working with AT&T to block what should have been already included -paid with your data plan- tethering, and that the same tandem is now hypothetically working to make it possible to charge you over facetime on 3G.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmason1270
Not true. They will honor it, but they will no longer subsidize your new phone. If you want to keep unlimited data then you have to pony up all the cash for your new phone.
And also never upgrade to an LTE phone, as a new LTE data plan will also require you to give up your grandfathered status.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
[telcos] ....no different than Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo
Gimme a break. It's just crazy to put Apple's customer satisfaction in the same light as the telco. You lose all credibility making a comparison like that. All businesses do worry about the bottom line but the telcos in the US are way beyond profit into greed. Apple maybe a lot of things but I can't, from experience, say they are greedy. Some here would but those are just the Apple whiners.
I don't understand all this hate on the telcos. I personally as well as our company have tons of services from AT&T and any time I have had to deal with customer services or support a real person has been on the phone within seconds and they have been knowledgeable and courteous and offered clear professional advice and solutions. I personally had Verizon prior to the iPhone and I found their service also exceeded my expectations especially compared to my experience with the likes of TWC. I think AT&T has every bit as quality support and customer service as Apple, maybe more so. For example in my experience you can't always get the right person on the phone at Apple. It took me literally 7 days to get a refund for a purchase that I tried to return using their online customer service.
I'll admit the voice call quality with AT&T leaves a bit to be desired but I'm not sure how to qualify that. Verizon voice quality was a bit better as I recall. I am very satisfied with my LTE hotspot from AT&T.
This way you could get a data only plan! I know in Canada, 5GB plans for iPad are $35 so this would be significantly cheaper than me having to get voice, text and data for $60 a month. Sure, you wouldn't be able to send all your blackberry and Android friends texts or calls, but they will switch eventually. And if all else fails, tweet them or message them on Facebook lol