You are completely missing the point! Did you not read the article? Samsung did not bring any of their concepts to market because they sucked and could not figure out all of the "problems" associated with the products. There is no doubt that Samsun is ripping Apple off! None!
It's actually worse.
Samsung is essentially saying "we evaluated all these prototypes that look nothing like the iPhone and could easily have released a phone that did not mimic the iPhone so exactly, but we chose not to because of Apple's success, so we chose a phone that looks nearly identical to the iPhone. Nice job making Apple's case.
err... that patent really covers 'multiple gestures in succession'
from engadget at the time:
I do think when the other phones start to get as responsive as a iPhone/Pad, then this patent comes into play (as long as you have to wait for the screen to respond, the experience sucks... but when I can pinch in rapid succession and get 'instantaneous' response to each, then the lawyers will be firing up the C&D letters.
The real story is that "pinch to zoom" actually has so much prior art that it's probably impossible to patent.
What happened is that multi-touch was actually around for a while before Apple started using it so there are tons of examples of people using the simple pinch to zoom gesture, as it's a fairly obvious and easily discoverable one. However, since before Apple, almost no one was using multi-touch gestures on a screen for a device (Fingerworks focussed almost exclusively on peripherals for example), a set of "standard gestures" did not really develop before Apple popularised the multi-touch computing concept.
Apple figured out a system of "standard" gestures that it thought were logical and patented them with the release of the original iPhone so as these gestures started to become used, Apple had the patents on them locked up. The really, really, obvious, intuitive gestures like pinch to zoom however were already in use for a long period beforehand so really simple stuff like that can be used by anyone (at least until the patent is asserted, challenged, and ruled on).
Man you fanboys are thick. Apple did not invent the a rectangular object with a piece of glass. As the picture just showed inside samsung before the iphone, they were thinking of your basic picture frame design.
Apple is wasting its time on this rectangle nonsense.
They need to go after touchwiz, that is wear samsung had no shame.
Man you fanboys are thick. Apple did not invent the a rectangular object with a piece of glass. As the picture just showed inside samsung before the iphone, they were thinking of your basic picture frame design.
Apple is wasting its time on this rectangle nonsense.
They need to go after touchwiz, that is wear samsung had no shame.
What I never understood is how Android got away with pinch to zoom. I thought Apple had a patent on that plus all the other multitouch gestures. Without those you really don't have much of a smartphone.
I can quote SF from the 2007 keynotes "... and boy, did we patent it"
So I am assuming Apple has wall to wall patents over the iphone design and fonctionnality. They could make them UI "essencial" patents and license them the same way lots 3g patents are license as "essencial"
I think this is going to end up with both companies being force to license patents to each other. If Apple really has the pinch to zoom and proximity sensor patents, they why not just license them to everyone at a fair price ? Those are much more concrete patents then "rectangle" or general look and feel of the design...
I just reviewed this patent. I did not look at all the claims. However, claim 1, at least, is limited to a continuous adjustment of a graphical object through two different gestures. I.e., the image zooms continuously if you pinch repeatedly. I just tested this on my Android, in google maps, and it definitely zooms in steps, not continuously.
For what it's worth, my entire life savings is in AAPL, and I have every reason to judge in Apple's favor. But I think Android is probably intentionally avoiding this one.
Maps may not be the best place to test that since the tiles are discrete sizes. Try it in the picture viewer app and see if it zooms continuously or in steps.
I wasn't being at all obtuse. What about Apple's legal strategy so far makes you believe there's any subtlety involved, that they're "holding back"?
Because this is the how universe works, except perhaps for the Big Bang but you'll have to ask Dick Applebaum about that. Apparently his ears are still ringing from it. :D
What I never understood is how Android got away with pinch to zoom. I thought Apple had a patent on that plus all the other multitouch gestures. Without those you really don't have much of a smartphone.
Apple's patent for pinch to zoom is not all encompassing, nor is it even pinch to zoom, but rather specific to a technique which makes use of multi-touch. Additionally, the validity of the patent (949 or 381, can't remember which) was still in question last I checked.
By the way, given that the 'pinch gesture' and 'multi-touch' date back to 1982-1983, Apple has and is having a tough time utilizing patents in this area, legally I mean.
Once again Apple's legal team takes shortcuts and alters things to suit their needs. First off we all know that product designs can take 18-24 months from creation to launch and the I700 (silver phone lower right corner pre-iPhone) was a 2003 launch so saying it was a 2005 phone is way off. They of course are selectively showing Samsung Windows Phones at the time which Android did not exist and thus their focus was dictated based on technology trends at the time. Android came along and was focused on touch based input so designs evolved over time. One thing is for sure a lot of HTC, Dell, Palm, Motorola etc. devices evolved as well.
That makes no sense. Samsung doesn't get off the hook just because Google created Android. If you had a moving company and unfortunately ran out of trucks to complete a job and someone came along and offered you free trucks to use NSA with the condition that s/he is not liable for anything that goes wrong and you use them but discover that the trucks were stolen then too bad. You're on the hook. Perhaps Samsung should have insisted on legal indemnification before shipping these phones*.
*Not that it would completely help since it was Samsung's bright idea to mimic Apple's packaging and create Touchwhiz
Comments
Follow @tim on Twitter to get live updates from inside the courtroom. Interesting stuff.
It's actually worse.
Samsung is essentially saying "we evaluated all these prototypes that look nothing like the iPhone and could easily have released a phone that did not mimic the iPhone so exactly, but we chose not to because of Apple's success, so we chose a phone that looks nearly identical to the iPhone. Nice job making Apple's case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
err... that patent really covers 'multiple gestures in succession'
from engadget at the time:
I do think when the other phones start to get as responsive as a iPhone/Pad, then this patent comes into play (as long as you have to wait for the screen to respond, the experience sucks... but when I can pinch in rapid succession and get 'instantaneous' response to each, then the lawyers will be firing up the C&D letters.
The real story is that "pinch to zoom" actually has so much prior art that it's probably impossible to patent.
What happened is that multi-touch was actually around for a while before Apple started using it so there are tons of examples of people using the simple pinch to zoom gesture, as it's a fairly obvious and easily discoverable one. However, since before Apple, almost no one was using multi-touch gestures on a screen for a device (Fingerworks focussed almost exclusively on peripherals for example), a set of "standard gestures" did not really develop before Apple popularised the multi-touch computing concept.
Apple figured out a system of "standard" gestures that it thought were logical and patented them with the release of the original iPhone so as these gestures started to become used, Apple had the patents on them locked up. The really, really, obvious, intuitive gestures like pinch to zoom however were already in use for a long period beforehand so really simple stuff like that can be used by anyone (at least until the patent is asserted, challenged, and ruled on).
To all of you: think back to 2005, 2006 and 2007. Where were Apple then? Success? In the mobile phones market? The court hearings are not about today!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Concepts. Everyone can pull em out of thin air.
Try again.
Man you fanboys are thick. Apple did not invent the a rectangular object with a piece of glass. As the picture just showed inside samsung before the iphone, they were thinking of your basic picture frame design.
Apple is wasting its time on this rectangle nonsense.
They need to go after touchwiz, that is wear samsung had no shame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techstalker
Man you fanboys are thick. Apple did not invent the a rectangular object with a piece of glass. As the picture just showed inside samsung before the iphone, they were thinking of your basic picture frame design.
Apple is wasting its time on this rectangle nonsense.
They need to go after touchwiz, that is wear samsung had no shame.
and packaging
Fine, if you want to choose to be obtuse about that common metaphor then: You don't detonate before it's time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
What I never understood is how Android got away with pinch to zoom. I thought Apple had a patent on that plus all the other multitouch gestures. Without those you really don't have much of a smartphone.
I can quote SF from the 2007 keynotes "... and boy, did we patent it"
So I am assuming Apple has wall to wall patents over the iphone design and fonctionnality. They could make them UI "essencial" patents and license them the same way lots 3g patents are license as "essencial"
I think this is going to end up with both companies being force to license patents to each other. If Apple really has the pinch to zoom and proximity sensor patents, they why not just license them to everyone at a fair price ? Those are much more concrete patents then "rectangle" or general look and feel of the design...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Fine, if you want to choose to be obtuse about that common metaphor then: You don't detonate before it's time.
I wasn't being at all obtuse. What about Apple's legal strategy so far makes you believe there's any subtlety involved, that they're "holding back"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
... and often when one goes 'thermonuclear' they end up blowing themselves up.
Example?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Example?
Thank goodness there isn't one!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightcmech
I just reviewed this patent. I did not look at all the claims. However, claim 1, at least, is limited to a continuous adjustment of a graphical object through two different gestures. I.e., the image zooms continuously if you pinch repeatedly. I just tested this on my Android, in google maps, and it definitely zooms in steps, not continuously.
For what it's worth, my entire life savings is in AAPL, and I have every reason to judge in Apple's favor. But I think Android is probably intentionally avoiding this one.
Maps may not be the best place to test that since the tiles are discrete sizes. Try it in the picture viewer app and see if it zooms continuously or in steps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Thank goodness there isn't one!!
That wasn't the point of my question.
Because this is the how universe works, except perhaps for the Big Bang but you'll have to ask Dick Applebaum about that. Apparently his ears are still ringing from it. :D
By the way, given that the 'pinch gesture' and 'multi-touch' date back to 1982-1983, Apple has and is having a tough time utilizing patents in this area, legally I mean.
Sony Clie 2000. My first PDA. Scroll wheel FTW!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Example?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
... and often when one goes 'thermonuclear' they end up blowing themselves up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorOO7
Once again Apple's legal team takes shortcuts and alters things to suit their needs. First off we all know that product designs can take 18-24 months from creation to launch and the I700 (silver phone lower right corner pre-iPhone) was a 2003 launch so saying it was a 2005 phone is way off. They of course are selectively showing Samsung Windows Phones at the time which Android did not exist and thus their focus was dictated based on technology trends at the time. Android came along and was focused on touch based input so designs evolved over time. One thing is for sure a lot of HTC, Dell, Palm, Motorola etc. devices evolved as well.
That makes no sense. Samsung doesn't get off the hook just because Google created Android. If you had a moving company and unfortunately ran out of trucks to complete a job and someone came along and offered you free trucks to use NSA with the condition that s/he is not liable for anything that goes wrong and you use them but discover that the trucks were stolen then too bad. You're on the hook. Perhaps Samsung should have insisted on legal indemnification before shipping these phones*.
*Not that it would completely help since it was Samsung's bright idea to mimic Apple's packaging and create Touchwhiz