Steve Jobs was 'very receptive' to 7-inch iPad idea, court documents show

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  • Reply 81 of 105
    ugh. qouted instead of edit. sorry.
  • Reply 82 of 105
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    fairthrope wrote: »
     In your opinion, what wasn't there in 2009-2010 but are here now that makes smaller iPad more feasible today?

    I don't think that's the way to look at it. I suspect that it was more like this:

    - Pre- 2009, Apple considered a variety of sizes.
    - Before launching the iPad, they decided that they were only going to produce one size until they established the market to minimize investment and risk
    - They decided that if they were only going to produce a single size, that 10" was a better choice
    - After introducing the 10" iPad, the market grew dramatically to the point where Apple could consider adding a second size
    - They looked at their earlier work and the market (where 7" appears to be the dominant size for non-iPad tablets) and decided that a 7" tablet would be a good second product

    So, it may be that the 7" was feasible 3 years ago, but Apple decided not to release it so that they could focus on a single product. Or, it could be that they had to wait for costs to come down for them to be able to hit a target price (probably $299, but possibly $249). Either way, it's irrelevant. The fact that they didn't introduce a 7" tablet 3 years ago doesn't mean that they thought it was a terrible idea. There are plenty of other reasons why they might not have done it that have nothing to do with how good or bad an idea a 7" tablet might be.
  • Reply 83 of 105
    jragosta wrote: »
    There are plenty of other reasons why they might not have done it that have nothing to do with how good or bad an idea a 7" tablet might be.

    The only way to find out for sure is for Apple to release such a tablet. Of course, the potential for fragmentation of iOS ecosystem may simply be not worth the effort.
  • Reply 84 of 105
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member

    Quote:


    "With the email Samsung was trying to make the point that Apple watches and wants to emulate the products of other companies—a zinger considering Apple is accusing Samsung of "slavishly" copying the iPhone and iPad."



     


     


    https://www.pcworld.com/article/260370/samsungs_big_zinger_in_patent_case_apple_exec_liked_7inch_galaxy.html

     


     


    That is what hypocrites do.


     


    Hypocritical company, Apple is.


     


    Shipping off Jobs to Communist China at the expense of American jobs.


     


    You call that an "American" company?


     


    Shame shame shame.


     


    At least Samsung, a Korean company, has a huge $9 Billion manufacturing facility in Austin, Texas of all places (even before the parts supply to Apple, back in 1995)

  • Reply 85 of 105
    galbi wrote: »

    https://www.pcworld.com/article/260370/samsungs_big_zinger_in_patent_case_apple_exec_liked_7inch_galaxy.html

     

    That is what hypocrites do.

    Hypocritical company, Apple is.

    Shipping off Jobs to Communist China at the expense of American jobs.

    Congrats. You just made it to my block list.
  • Reply 86 of 105
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    You call that an "American" company?



     


    Since virtually all of them do that, yes, I call that a troll American company.

  • Reply 87 of 105
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Talking about the iPhone. The iPad's proposed resolution at 1024x768 for a 4:3 aspect ratio makes perfect sense on paper.

    Since when has Apple been OK with killing the user experience just to catch up with a competitor in a single spec that will have no postiive effect on usablity and plenty of downsides? What Android phones are using 1280x720 RGB pixels, not RG BG which means you take the number of pixels and reduce by 1/3rd.


     


    So what resolution makes sense for Apple for the new phone?  I don't see them sticking with 960*640, the ratio is wrong for 16:9.  You haven't supplied anything else that seems suitable at all.  1138*640 would be almost the same pixel density as the current phone (3 ppi less), but that is a really wonky resolution.  1280x720 makes a lot of video work better as that is 720p and if they are bothering to switch to a widescreen resolution at this point, I don't see the point in not making sure you suit video better.

  • Reply 88 of 105
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    ssquirrel wrote: »
    So what resolution makes sense for Apple for the new phone?  I don't see them sticking with 960*640, the ratio is wrong for 16:9.  You haven't supplied anything else that seems suitable at all.  1138*640 would be almost the same pixel density as the current phone (3 ppi less), but that is a really wonky resolution.  1280x720 makes a lot of video work better as that is 720p and if they are bothering to switch to a widescreen resolution at this point, I don't see the point in not making sure you suit video better.

    1136?×?640 would be a magic number for the purported size. That brings it from being 3:2 to 16:9 while maximizing the display size for the usability and, most importantly, uses the exact same pixel density as the current iPhone. This last item is very important which is why the 1024x768 Apple tablet was hypothesized before the iPad was ever announced.

    It all comes down to production efficiency. If you can use the same display foundries that you've already invested heavily in -and- have great knowledge of you can save a lot of money. These displays aren't made in the tiny sizes we see. Essentially, they are made in large sheets that are cut to size.

    Now that the original iPhone/Touch (163 PPI) display panels are becoming much less utilized if they can recommission this tech for another purpose they can save a huge amount of money in R&D and production costs. This is one important reason Apple has been so successful in the market. They rarely start from scratch, but build from their existing knowledge base and resources. This is how a smart company operates.

    The same goes for the rumoured 4" iPhone, which is why it makes sense. Regardless of the actual size having it use the same 326 PPI pixel density panels saves them a lot of time, money and effort on every level.

    I'm not exactly sure why people get hung up on a known aspect ratio. These are ultimately arbitrary. The value is absolutely irrelevant if what is designed to display on it is optimized for it. It's that simple! People didn't believe me when in 2009 amidst the "iTablet" rumours that a 4:3 aspect ratio (or thereabouts) would be the best balance for watching video -and- reading on a device about 10" diagonally. Note that reading isn't just books but pretty much what most of use do with out machine, often in an email or web page. It was also one of the reasons it was doomed from the start. Turns out Apple was right.

    PS: Your argument that it has to be 720x1280 because of video simply doesn't hold water for many reasons. First of all, video plays just fine and doesn't need to be pixel perfect for it to work. Do you not watch movies on your HDTV or do you have a special HDTV with various resolutions for aspect ratios they are shot in? Of course not... and this is just a phone, whose purpose is not to replace your TV. That's just one issue. I've already mentioned cost for investment and purchases for the HW, OS, dev tools, and how that will affect usability.
  • Reply 89 of 105
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    jragosta wrote: »
    Well, so much for all the people who insist that there's no way Apple could ever make a 7" iPad and that it would be a terrible idea.

    You should probably hold that comment into Apple announces it.

    Or at least loses the prototype in a bar
  • Reply 90 of 105
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    charlituna wrote: »
    You should probably hold that comment {Well, so much for all the people who insist that there's no way Apple could ever make a 7" iPad and that it would be a terrible idea.} into Apple announces it.
    Or at least loses the prototype in a bar



    No need. The point was that people have been insisting that Jobs would never have allowed a 7" iPad and thought it was a terrible idea. This testimony refutes that position - even if Apple never releases a 7" iPad, it's clear that Jobs was not vehemently opposed to the idea.
  • Reply 91 of 105
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

    The point was that people have been insisting that Jobs would never have allowed a 7" iPad and thought it was a terrible idea. This testimony refutes that position - even if Apple never releases a 7" iPad, it's clear that Jobs was not vehemently opposed to the idea.


     


    Cue says he was. And uses an e-mail that isn't from Jobs and doesn't even CC him to prove it. Jobs' receptivity is not what you're thinking.

  • Reply 92 of 105
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Cue says he was. And uses an e-mail that isn't from Jobs and doesn't even CC him to prove it. Jobs' receptivity is not what you're thinking.

    I suspect that Cue knows more about Jobs' opinions than you do.
  • Reply 93 of 105
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,240member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 4TheLoveOfTech View Post



    I didn't know Apple had a patent on rectangles.


     


    Well now you do.

  • Reply 94 of 105
    Come on Sloppy.

    Do you own one?
    Have you tried the Jelly Bean Experience on the Beautiful Tablet?

    If not, then please don't make a comparison.

    I've got both the iPad (New, 3, Apple can't think of a name) and the Nexus 7.

    The Nexus 7 is all about the beauty of the Tablet and the Beauty of the Jelly Bean Experience.

    Edit:  The 7 inch Tablet is light easy to hold with 1 hand and the back of the tablet having the grip to comfortably hold it and not worry about scratching it without putting it into a case.  It's rugged beauty.

    What..? The Nexus is far from a beautiful experience, I can't count how many times I've wanted to smash mine...and I have a I/O unit so I had mine before the public did.

    Worry about scratching it? Ha mines scratched to living hell from daily use, they simply cheaped out that's why it's been returned in swarms from QC issues.

    It's a nice try, but not a "High quality product"
  • Reply 95 of 105
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,618member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flash_beezy View Post





    What..? The Nexus is far from a beautiful experience, I can't count how many times I've wanted to smash mine...and I have a I/O unit so I had mine before the public did.

    Worry about scratching it? Ha mines scratched to living hell from daily use, they simply cheaped out that's why it's been returned in swarms from QC issues.

    It's a nice try, but not a "High quality product"


    I hope my future experience won't be the same. After playing around with a Nexus 7 a few times in the past couple of weeks I picked one up for myself. It certainly feels like a premium tablet so far, and responsiveness has been great. There's been no discernable lag, games like "The Dark Knight Rises" play smoothly without hiccups (huge download BTW),  and voice recognition is particularly impressive. You've all seen the Siri commercials that show an immediate response to inquiries, followed by a disclaimer about shortened sequences? That's pretty much the experience I've had with the Nexus 7 searches so far, except no need for the disclaimer. It really does offer most results within a couple of seconds.


     


    With that said, it's not the same as Siri, altho it accomplishes the same goals for the most part albeit faster. It's not going to have a back and forth "conversation" (for lack of a better term) with you, instead simply offering results to specific inquiries. If I ask "did the Rays win last night" I'll get a verbal response within literally 2-3 seconds, "No, the Rays lost last night in 10 innings 1 to nothing". (Note I don't have to specify the TampaBay Rays). The voice is very pleasant and natural sounding too, more so than Siri's IMO.  But if I instead ask "what was the score in the last Rays' game" I get a list of web results rather than a voice response, altho the same fast delivery of the results. It's obvious that Google has tuned Jellybean to respond to specifically framed inquiries with verbal feedback, but if not worded in a way that it immediately understands it will give web results instead. Google's voice search isn't going to come back with a question to clarify/confirm your inquiry like Apple's Siri might. There's no AI involved with Google results as far as I know.


     


    IMO that's not really a bad thing so far as I'm personally more interested in getting results than having a conversation to get to the same answers, but some people may need the assistance in nailing down what they really wanted to ask.  I usually have a good idea how to frame a search query and seldom ask a rambling question whether by voice or keyboard. The search function in at least Jellybean works great for me, but may not for you if you need that back and forth that Siri can provide. I have noticed that Google's recognition of what I've verbally said is more accurate than in Apple's Siri in the little bit of comparison I've done, tho not dramatically so. 


     


    My impression so far: Yes, it's absolutely a "high quality product". Sorry you have had a different experience with your particular unit. Perhaps you expected it to be an iPad in a small form, which it isn't and was never intended to be. Perhaps it's because it was a rushed beta release for the presentation event. Dunno.


     


    For what it is and what it does, I feel I'm going to receive much more value than it cost me in dollars. As an aside, Asus recognized that the original white textured back on the give-away Nexus 7 from I/O was prone to scratching or discoloration according to press mentions and have changed it for the consumer devices. As for it being "returned in swarms", I have no idea where you get that news from. I've not seen any articles that make that claim, but fell free to offer a link if true.


     


    ... and that's pretty much all I'll have to say about it for the most part unless specifically asked. This is the first time I've praised a non-Apple device here, but this 7" tablet deserves it IMO. It's not an iPad, but it's a darn good tablet for those that don't need a large slate or can't justify the $500 price for one. Anandtech agrees, giving it a Bronze Editor's Choice award. Of course Apple's upcoming 7-8 inch iPad may well get the gold. We'll see before long IMO.


    http://www.anandtech.com/show/6073/the-google-nexus-7-review


     


    As an Apple enthusiast site it's certainly better to keep the focus on Apple IMO, so my apologies in advance if this post is a distraction. Just wanted to respond to the previous complaint with another side from another owner.

  • Reply 96 of 105
    sr2012sr2012 Posts: 896member
    I think Steve was "very receptive" to the idea but not a wholesale copypasta of iPad 10" to 7". I imagine Steve would have wanted a unique ecosystem for 7" but didn't want fragmentation so stuck with 10".

    Steve was right about Android tablets at 7". They just copied the iPad 10", mangled it with Android for smartphones, and you had a piece-of-crap 7" Android tablet that was neither here nor there.

    Also keep in mind, Steve being "very receptive" might have been a "cool story, bro" to Eddy Cue.
  • Reply 97 of 105
    sr2012sr2012 Posts: 896member
    ssquirrel wrote: »
    Some sample resolution densities:
    1920x1280 3:2 4" (double iPhone current res) 576.89ppi

    1920x1080 16:9 4" (possible new res for iPhone) 550.73ppi (2x:1.6875x increase)
    1600x900 16:9 4" (possible new res for iPhone) 458.94ppi (1.67x:1.40625x increase)

    1366*768 16:9 4" (possible new res for iPhone) 391.77ppi (1.4229x:1.2x increase)
    1280x720 16:9 4" (possible new res for iPhone) 367.15ppi (1.33x:1.125x increase)


    1024x768 4:3 7.85" (iPad 1/2 res) 163.06ppi
    2048x1536 4:3 7.85" (current New iPad res) 326.11ppi


    Since people are bouncing around various resolutions and screen sizes I decided to see what a few possible iPhone and 7.85" iPad resolutions would look like.  The widescreen iPhone options have the math for what the resolution changes would be from the current iPhone 4S.  Since Apple did simple resolution doubling for the iPad to use iPhone apps, they could put a bit of automatic math to stretch iPhone apps for it.  

    Yeah I was bored :)

    Very good math. But I'm concerned about fragmentation if iPhone5 and iPad7" turn out as per the rumours.

    Technically of course Apple can on-the-fly resize using just a few .png files per graphic resource ala MBP Retina.

    But usability-wise? Curious.
  • Reply 98 of 105
    gatorguy wrote: »
    I hope my future experience won't be the same. After playing around with a Nexus 7 a few times in the past couple of weeks I picked one up for myself. It certainly feels like a premium tablet so far, and responsiveness has been great. There's been no discernable lag, games like "The Dark Knight Rises" play smoothly without hiccups (huge download BTW),  and voice recognition is particularly impressive. You've all seen the Siri commercials that show an immediate response to inquiries, followed by a disclaimer about shortened sequences? That's pretty much the experience I've had with the Nexus 7 searches so far, except no need for the disclaimer. It really does offer most results within a couple of seconds.

    With that said, it's not the same as Siri, altho it accomplishes the same goals for the most part albeit faster. It's not going to have a back and forth "conversation" (for lack of a better term) with you, instead simply offering results to specific inquiries. If I ask "did the Rays win last night" I'll get a verbal response within literally 2-3 seconds, "No, the Rays lost last night in 10 innings 1 to nothing". (Note I don't have to specify the TampaBay Rays). The voice is very pleasant and natural sounding too, more so than Siri's IMO.  But if I instead ask "what was the score in the last Rays' game" I get a list of web results rather than a voice response, altho the same fast delivery of the results. It's obvious that Google has tuned Jellybean to respond to specifically framed inquiries with verbal feedback, but if not worded in a way that it immediately understands it will give web results instead. Google's voice search isn't going to come back with a question to clarify/confirm your inquiry like Apple's Siri might. There's no AI involved with Google results as far as I know.

    IMO that's not really a bad thing so far as I'm personally more interested in getting results than having a conversation to get to the same answers, but some people may need the assistance in nailing down what they really wanted to ask.  I usually have a good idea how to frame a search query and seldom ask a rambling question whether by voice or keyboard. The search function in at least Jellybean works great for me, but may not for you if you need that back and forth that Siri can provide. I have noticed that Google's recognition of what I've verbally said is more accurate than in Apple's Siri in the little bit of comparison I've done, tho not dramatically so. 

    My impression so far: Yes, it's absolutely a "high quality product". Sorry you have had a different experience with your particular unit. Perhaps you expected it to be an iPad in a small form, which it isn't and was never intended to be. Perhaps it's because it was a rushed beta release for the presentation event. Dunno.

    For what it is and what it does, I feel I'm going to receive much more value than it cost me in dollars. As an aside, Asus recognized that the original white textured back on the give-away Nexus 7 from I/O was prone to scratching or discoloration according to press mentions and have changed it for the consumer devices. As for it being "returned in swarms", I have no idea where you get that news from. I've not seen any articles that make that claim, but fell free to offer a link if true.

    ... and that's pretty much all I'll have to say about it for the most part unless specifically asked. This is the first time I've praised a non-Apple device here, but this 7" tablet deserves it IMO. It's not an iPad, but it's a darn good tablet for those that don't need a large slate or can't justify the $500 price for one. Anandtech agrees, giving it a Bronze Editor's Choice award. Of course Apple's upcoming 7-8 inch iPad may well get the gold. We'll see before long IMO.
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/6073/the-google-nexus-7-review

    As an Apple enthusiast site it's certainly better to keep the focus on Apple IMO, so my apologies in advance if this post is a distraction. Just wanted to respond to the previous complaint with another side from another owner.

    Go on to XDA, and other numerous android fan sites, quality issues range from, Lifted screens, numerous dead pixels, poor build quality, DOA units, bad speakers, unresponsive touch screens, squeaky panels, slow/lagging units, Subpar Corning glass quality leading to babied devices cracking/scratching glass, pixel lines, silver bezel is pretty much paint, Uneven backlighting, screen flickering, ect the list goes on.

    It's been established that the first batch was awful. There's 3 versions, Google I/O release, the google play store release which was Black backed, and another version that has a slightly brown back.

    I'm not talking out my ass here, I'll post load of links from android fan forums..It's far from a premium device. It was rushed period. They only had like 3 months to design and pump it out into production.
  • Reply 99 of 105
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,618member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flash_beezy View Post





    Go on to XDA, and other numerous android fan sites, quality issues range from, Lifted screens, numerous dead pixels, poor build quality, DOA units, bad speakers, unresponsive touch screens, squeaky panels, slow/lagging units, Subpar Corning glass quality leading to babied devices cracking/scratching glass, pixel lines, silver bezel is pretty much paint, Uneven backlighting, screen flickering, ect the list goes on.

    It's been established that the first batch was awful. There's 3 versions, Google I/O release, the google play store release which was Black backed, and another version that has a slightly brown back.

    I'm not talking out my ass here, I'll post load of links from android fan forums..It's far from a premium device. It was rushed period. They only had like 3 months to design and pump it out into production.


    Please do list some citations for the Nexus 7 being "returned in swarms". What I've seen doesn't reported is not much different from new iPad or MacBook releases. Are those being "returned in swarms too" if I read about a couple dozen users with the same reported issue?

  • Reply 100 of 105

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    I hope my future experience won't be the same. After playing around with a Nexus 7 a few times in the past couple of weeks I picked one up for myself. It certainly feels like a premium tablet so far, and responsiveness has been great. There's been no discernable lag, games like "The Dark Knight Rises" play smoothly without hiccups (huge download BTW),  and voice recognition is particularly impressive. You've all seen the Siri commercials that show an immediate response to inquiries, followed by a disclaimer about shortened sequences? That's pretty much the experience I've had with the Nexus 7 searches so far, except no need for the disclaimer. It really does offer most results within a couple of seconds.


     


    With that said, it's not the same as Siri, altho it accomplishes the same goals for the most part albeit faster. It's not going to have a back and forth "conversation" (for lack of a better term) with you, instead simply offering results to specific inquiries. If I ask "did the Rays win last night" I'll get a verbal response within literally 2-3 seconds, "No, the Rays lost last night in 10 innings 1 to nothing". (Note I don't have to specify the TampaBay Rays). The voice is very pleasant and natural sounding too, more so than Siri's IMO.  But if I instead ask "what was the score in the last Rays' game" I get a list of web results rather than a voice response, altho the same fast delivery of the results. It's obvious that Google has tuned Jellybean to respond to specifically framed inquiries with verbal feedback, but if not worded in a way that it immediately understands it will give web results instead. Google's voice search isn't going to come back with a question to clarify/confirm your inquiry like Apple's Siri might. There's no AI involved with Google results as far as I know.


     


    IMO that's not really a bad thing so far as I'm personally more interested in getting results than having a conversation to get to the same answers, but some people may need the assistance in nailing down what they really wanted to ask.  I usually have a good idea how to frame a search query and seldom ask a rambling question whether by voice or keyboard. The search function in at least Jellybean works great for me, but may not for you if you need that back and forth that Siri can provide. I have noticed that Google's recognition of what I've verbally said is more accurate than in Apple's Siri in the little bit of comparison I've done, tho not dramatically so. 


     


    My impression so far: Yes, it's absolutely a "high quality product". Sorry you have had a different experience with your particular unit. Perhaps you expected it to be an iPad in a small form, which it isn't and was never intended to be. Perhaps it's because it was a rushed beta release for the presentation event. Dunno.


     


    For what it is and what it does, I feel I'm going to receive much more value than it cost me in dollars. As an aside, Asus recognized that the original white textured back on the give-away Nexus 7 from I/O was prone to scratching or discoloration according to press mentions and have changed it for the consumer devices. As for it being "returned in swarms", I have no idea where you get that news from. I've not seen any articles that make that claim, but fell free to offer a link if true.


     


    ... and that's pretty much all I'll have to say about it for the most part unless specifically asked. This is the first time I've praised a non-Apple device here, but this 7" tablet deserves it IMO. It's not an iPad, but it's a darn good tablet for those that don't need a large slate or can't justify the $500 price for one. Anandtech agrees, giving it a Bronze Editor's Choice award. Of course Apple's upcoming 7-8 inch iPad may well get the gold. We'll see before long IMO.


    http://www.anandtech.com/show/6073/the-google-nexus-7-review


     


    As an Apple enthusiast site it's certainly better to keep the focus on Apple IMO, so my apologies in advance if this post is a distraction. Just wanted to respond to the previous complaint with another side from another owner.



    LOL awesome job, advertise the hell out of that before the new apple product comes out, and makes the nexus an obsolete POS. 

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