Apple "rubber-banding," "pinch-to-zoom" patents challenged by Samsung witnesses

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  • Reply 141 of 157
    emacs72emacs72 Posts: 356member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hattig View Post


    Samsung makes some extremely good products, and you shouldn't let some corporate shenanigans cloud your future purchases.



     


    yes.


     


    being vendor neutral is the only way to really appreciate and enjoy the marvels of human ingenuity.  i do not and will never limit myself to any one brand; there's some really great stuff out there from Apple and other companies.

  • Reply 142 of 157
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jsebrech View Post



    ... i just don't like their arrogant "we invented it all" attitude. As a software developer i also am fundamentally opposed to software patents, all of them, which is why i'm rooting for android on the patent front.


     


    Are you rooting for Google's patent application for a software implementation of drop down notifications in Android, do you like it?

  • Reply 143 of 157

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JustAdComics View Post


    That's VERY cool! Thanks for that bit of history - I'm a sucker for facts like this :)


     


    On an even more unrelated note, did you know that one form of computer memory relied upon standing waves in tubes of mercury? It was called Delay Line Memory. From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay_line_memory



     


    I wasn't aware of the tubes of mercury -- but was aware of magnetorestrictive delay lines -- where, essentially, you successively twist a coil of wire and the bits flow down the wire and are read at the other end, rinse and repeat.  AIR, it was used in an NCR computer of the early 1950-1960s.


     


    In 1958 I went to work for the company (Consolidated Electrodynamics Corporation) that developed the Datatron computer and sold the rights to Burrourghs.


     


     image


     


    http://tjsawyer.com/B205Home.htm


     


     


    The guy that hired me at CEC, left and went to work for Alwac -- Maker of the Alwac III-e.   I think, that computer was the first to use the 8-bit byte... and to use this weird numbering system called hexadecimal.


     


    image


     


    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Alwac_III_computer,_1959.jpg

  • Reply 144 of 157
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,336member


    It's not zooming. It's resizing. There's a difference.  Also, it's not a pinch gesture as indicated in the Apple filing using the thumb and forefinger. This screenshot uses two fingers.

  • Reply 145 of 157
    845032845032 Posts: 76member





     


     


     


     





    By the way, Did Apple paid license royalty to Jeff Han ?


     


    Of course, Apple is not inventor this this.

  • Reply 146 of 157
    845032845032 Posts: 76member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jkichline View Post


    It's not zooming. It's resizing. There's a difference.



     


    It cleary zooming.


     


    image


     


    image


     


    image


     


    image

  • Reply 147 of 157

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 845032 View Post


     


     


    By the way, Did Apple paid license royalty to Jeff Han ?


     


    Of course, Apple is not inventor this this.



     


    You are over-simplifying... then jumping to conclusions!


     


    In these videos, Han shows:



    1. at least three different uses of the pinch gesture -- only one is pinch-zoom


    2. several ways to do a zoom -- only one is a pinch


     


    While Han may have shown this publicly before Apple showed the iPhone:



    1. there is no information to suggest that this was developed prior to the iPhone


    2. there is no infermation to suggest that Han has any patents that Apple would be interested in licensing


     


    As I, and others have posted, these involve totally different:



    1. hardware


    2. software


    3. UIs


    4. target audiences


    5. use cases


     


    It is not clear that either the iOS or the Han implementations conflict with each other -- any more than the MS [original] Surface and iOS implementations conflicted with each other.


     


     


    Consider:  Han could do a pinch gesture with: 2 elbows;  the heels of 2 hands;  2 feet;  2 heads...  None of these is possible with an iPhone.

  • Reply 148 of 157


    SO...Samsung are great artists then.

  • Reply 149 of 157
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,408member


    Quote:


     


    Quote:



    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


     


    This line originally dates back not to Jobs or Picasso, but to T.S Eliot, and the original quote sheds some light into the intended meaning, which is often misinterpreted by the clueless as a license to steal other's work and ideas.


     



    "One of the surest tests [of the superiority or inferiority of a poet] is the way in which a poet borrows. Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different than that from which it is torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion. A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest."



     


    The quote is from an essay Eliot wrote on a playwright named Philip Massinger. He's basically saying that good poets borrow from other's works in a way that contributes something entirely new to the medium. He is not suggesting that merely imitating someone's work without added value is justified.


     


    Eliot's comment on borrowing "from authors remote in time, alien in language, or diverse in interest" meshes brilliantly with many of Apple's design influences, such as Dieter Rams's transistor radio designs' influence on the original iPod. Another great example is the iPad's Smart Cover, which bears an uncanny resemblance to an obscure Japanese bathtub cover.


     


     


    700




    700


     


     





    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    I was wondering how far back that quote went. It was obvious in the old Jobs interview he was taking it out of context and lacking any sense of how to interpret its original meaning. It was just execu-speak, which always annoys me. Your reference is much cooler.



     

    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

    What do you mean? I don't know if Jobs knew this originally came from TS Eliot but it's quite obvious he was crystal clear on its meaning. In fact, the Apple design examples I provided suggest they fanatically followed this philosophy in all their product designs. I can't think of any other consumer electronics maker today that brings this much art into their product development.


     


     


     


    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

     


    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

     


    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

     
  • Reply 150 of 157
    mcrsmcrs Posts: 172member

    Quote:


    Are the items above, in red, facts? You certainly posted them as facts...



    I didn't say that they were factuals. I made those statement to show to you the alternate possibility, the direct opposites of your assessments. You might have read the stated facts and come up with different interpretations, and thus by stating what you believe in by embedding " I 'suspect'..." doesn't make it more valid. It's the same difference. 


     


    You also said these: 


    1.  Why do you assume that "no comment" has more implied meaning than no action?  


    It has meaning that he was satisfied with whatever Apple  presented to him. Apple knows fully well Jeff Han and his company have arsenals of patents in the pipeline or already issued. The problem here is not the possible infringement on the hardware but rather the possibility of software infringement on Apple's part. 




    2.If Han's company gets onto mobile -- he better be careful about Apple's IP 

    Again, here your four fingers actually pointing at yourself. Sans your trademark "I Suspect", you must be so certain of yourself that "you are stating the fact that" Han will be infringing while at the same time you have no clues about the differing technology employed by PP and PP's Intellectual Property. Yet there is no citation.



    3. The fact that Han has known about the iPhone for over 5 years, and has done nothing...

    See the point (1) above. it is not Jeff Han or PP on the defense, it was Apple playing a defensive posture.


     


    4. I suspect that Han sold his company and IP for a lump sum and won't receive any royalties or license fees. MS plays hardball and I suspect what Han received is rather lower than what a valid claim against Apple would have brought.

    The deal wasn't disclosed. You can speculate all you want. And, in return I will say this: Han sold his company and make tons of money and also royalties, and Han received enough money to make the next four to five generations of Han happy. He is already listed on Time magazine's 100 Most Influential People in The World for 2008, and his products have been adopted by many organizations. Why would he sell his company and its IP for less than what they're worth?   



    5.Finally, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Han's offering resembles MS' big-assed [Surface] table more that any of Apple's offerings. I suspect MS bought Han's company because of the nuisance factor, rather than the potential for cross-licensing the IP to Apple.


    Microsoft bought Perceptive Pixel with its strong IP employing an alternative technology, if esoteric, IS NOT DUE TO NUISANCE FACTOR. It is because the technology is so unique, and as such it has enormous potential and a worthy addition to the already impressive MS patent arsenal.


     


     


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Are the items above, in red, facts?  You certainly posted them as facts -- no qualifiers, no apparent doubt in your posts... also no citations to back up your claims!





    What is this? I am not aware that I am actually writing and publishing a research paper on a respected technical journal? This is AI iwth a tagline "Apple news and rumors since 1997",  please..., you are taking this forum way too seriously. 

  • Reply 151 of 157

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by diplication View Post





    Quite good first post. I'm actually here for the humor, so thanks.

    "AppleShare"? I guess we can assume you are over 40?


    I am a long time reader of AI and finally had something to post. Thanks for the encouragement. Maybe more posts to follow.


    Spot on with your guess. I am also a long time Apple user, as if that wasn't apparent as well.

  • Reply 152 of 157
    appleshare wrote: »
    I am a long time reader of AI and finally had something to post. Thanks for the encouragement. Maybe more posts to follow.
    Spot on with your guess. I am also a long time Apple user, as if that wasn't apparent as well.
    Anyone who knows what AppleShare is has been around a while. Of course my favorite would have to be the "Chooser". I can also remember as a relatively new user, looking into the System Folder and wondering, "There are 36 items in my System Folder, where did all these things come from?" If I only knew where we were headed...
  • Reply 153 of 157

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by diplication View Post





    Anyone who knows what AppleShare is has been around a while. Of course my favorite would have to be the "Chooser". I can also remember as a relatively new user, looking into the System Folder and wondering, "There are 36 items in my System Folder, where did all these things come from?" If I only knew where we were headed...


    Oh yeah, the good old 'chooser'. The name sure sounds funny now though. But no stranger than 'finder'. I imagine the good old 'finder' will a distant memory in a little while too. I remember how easy it was once you knew a couple of things about the System Folder to go in and fix something, or try to anyway. I don't find myself in the system folder too much anymore. I think Apple doesn't want us trying to 'clean up' the system folder and ending up with a system that won't boot.

  • Reply 154 of 157
    845032845032 Posts: 76member


    I found another prior-art of pinch-to-zoom patent.


     


    Here is the Sony's smartskin demo in 2002



     



     


     


     


    Sony demo  (year 2002)


     



    (Video Time  2: 20~)


     


     


    "Game Over" to pinch-to-zoom patent.


    There are so many prior-art of this.

  • Reply 155 of 157
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by 845032 View Post

    I found another prior-art of pinch-to-zoom patent.


    There are so many prior-art of this.



     


    And you'd think that if these public YouTube videos proved anything of any sort that Samsung or anyone else would have included them in their cases… Maybe they know something you don't.

  • Reply 156 of 157
    mcrsmcrs Posts: 172member


    As it appears, in the case of  "rubber banding" effect, the USPTO didn't do its homework before granting that patent to Apple. Or, worse still, Apple tried to obfuscate the fact that there was prior art to this by failing to cite DiamondTouch Table computer when Apple applied for the patent. Either way, it confirms my suspicion about the way USPTO works. It works on a set of quotas every single year, so that it can collect fees and produce nice graphical Powerpoint presentation for the continuing upward trends of both patent applications and USPTO's revenues. 


     


    Of course, as any other government sanctioned offices, USPTO will come up with the same generic complaint when things like this show up on the radar. It would say the system is not broken. But it happens because USPTO is overworked and understaffed. You gotta love those civil servants. They got paid top dollars but had done very little for the right to earn that much money.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    And you'd think that if these public YouTube videos proved anything of any sort that Samsung or anyone else would have included them in their cases… Maybe they know something you don't.


  • Reply 157 of 157

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


     


    I wasn't aware of the tubes of mercury -- but was aware of magnetorestrictive delay lines -- where, essentially, you successively twist a coil of wire and the bits flow down the wire and are read at the other end, rinse and repeat.  AIR, it was used in an NCR computer of the early 1950-1960s.


     


    In 1958 I went to work for the company (Consolidated Electrodynamics Corporation) that developed the Datatron computer and sold the rights to Burrourghs.


     


     image


     


    http://tjsawyer.com/B205Home.htm


     


     


    The guy that hired me at CEC, left and went to work for Alwac -- Maker of the Alwac III-e.   I think, that computer was the first to use the 8-bit byte... and to use this weird numbering system called hexadecimal.


     


    image


     


    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Alwac_III_computer,_1959.jpg



    Was that similar to the wire logic that was used during the Apollo program? Where the computer programming consisted of stringing wires with magnets that would switch on and off according the patterns. Took months to write a program, wire it and test it.

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