This is just the beginning. Android is the target. BTW - iOS and it's interaction with cool hardware designs is going to evolve. Apple now has a deep understanding of what works and does not work in the courts. Expect surgical accuracy going forward on patent construction. Behind the scenes Softy and Mac have settled their war. Note that Softy is not suing Apple only Android. Note, Softy is using some Apple features while avoiding clones. Cross licensing has occurred.
BTW for thos readers of Florian Mueller and his FossPatents blog, it will be interesting to see if Florian will start to develop the theory of and propose ideas for the best patent strategies to lock up both design and combined hardware/software innovations. There is a lot of data now in the courts, behind the scenes Apple et.al. Will be reacting. However, this could take years before we see it.
iOS is perhaps the most overlooked achievement in computing history???
Probably true for the general public. We tend to think of physics - solid state electronics - as the true wizardry. And indeed it is wizardry. But as the computer age has evolved, Microsoft and Apple have taken a lion's share of industry profits. Two companies with heavy software focus. Obviously Apple is focused on a great end result and uses all weaponry - design , software and hardware, amongst others. Software is clearly equal to the other tools in the toolbox.
The real value behind this legal battle, is that it answers the question, shall I innovate or shall I just copy?
It's the benchmark case almost like Enron - In the market, a company gets all the praise for its practice of dodgy accounting prior discovered, what happens to the honest companies? Shall they join the dishonest accounting practice or stay honest? It's very discouraging to see honest companies gets punished, dodgy companies wins. The ultimate collapse of Enron gives the clear answer.
Samsung case is not as dramatic, but it delivers a clear message to American companies. "I see companies copy others without any consequence, maybe we will all stop innovating and copy others." It would be discouraging for innovation. But this case set the answers straight. It shows that US does protect innovations, shows what is the right thing to do.
Samsung enjoyed phenomenal growth for the past decades, but it's a very dangerous thing that if they keep on copying, gets no punishment, but all the rewards. Then their appetite gets bigger and bigger. They can do more crazy things. This case would cause chaos for Samsung, just like Enron, proves that their old practice is no longer acceptable, they must find a new way. Ultimately good for Samsung, encourage them to innovate more. be a truly great company like Apple.
anyone else think apple is sitting on the next big ios update while all the new patents get granted ? we've seen quite a few from animated icons, and rotatary selections mechanisms get granted. this way then can sue immediately when launched if the competition follows suit.
Apple has said and court records prove it is willing to license underlying technology, but not the dress, look, feel, behavior that was uniquely created by the iPhone and iPad. You can't copy or clone or near clone UI and form factor. You need to innovate, e.g., Samsung tablet/stylus tabletop MS Metro. Incidentally, this is the warning Google gave to Samsung and Samsung ignored.
Android community does have a lot of IP it has misappropriated, but this can be licensed. All non-Motorola OEMs have licensed MS IP and will have to license non-SEP Nokia and Apple. This is real cost of business and as Samsung MS license proves still be very price competitive.
Apple's real concern is products in the pipeline e.g., iPad mini, Apple TV, etc not have their IP copied. Its really not the money, Apple has lots, but rather pride of invention and risk rewarded.
There is a legitimate question regarding software patents in general that this case raises, but that is an open issue.
The service providers have been pushing not-Apple for a long time, their huge profit margins are at risk a bit by subsidy costs, but more by Apple's freedom to innovate without their OK, e.g., iMessage killing the SMS ripoff. They like cableTV are afraid Apple will really undermine their business models that yield fat margins, that is disruptive innovation and competition not stealing Apples ideas and selling at a discount.
Not true. Unless Apple specifically patented them, they're now "public domain". That means nobody CAN patent them and anyone can use them. Of course, it will ever be known where the real idea came from.
I just want to add that Tim Cook is my definition of a Class Act.
Too bad his employees are not. Some retail worker is going to push this kind of stunt and get caught. And get fired.
iOS and it's widespread implementation has really transformed the way a lot of people compute today.
Don't underestimate iOS and what it means to the post-PC era (which I firmly believe is a real thing).
I say iOS is "overlooked" because really the software fades to the background as we interact with our devices. That's a good thing and perhaps is the essence of Apple's success.
Such tight integration of hardware and software is a beautiful thing.
anyone else think apple is sitting on the next big ios update while all the new patents get granted ? we've seen quite a few from animated icons, and rotatary selections mechanisms get granted. this way then can sue immediately when launched if the competition follows suit.
They're sitting (working) on iOS 6. If there's something going to be in iOS 6 that we've not yet seen, it's 6th iPhone-exclusive.
Why would I not be honestly serious?
iOS and it's widespread implementation has really transformed the way a lot of people compute today.
Don't underestimate iOS and what it means to the post-PC era (which I firmly believe is a real thing).
I say iOS is "overlooked" because really the software fades to the background as we interact with our devices. That's a good thing and perhaps is the essence of Apple's success.
Such tight integration of hardware and software is a beautiful thing.
I agree with AD. I don't think it's overlooked by another in the industry. At most, I think the general public will use the general term "iPhone" or "iPad" because it is so well integrated but that doesn't mean it's overlooked. I don't see any other argument for the success of the iPhone and iPad other than the OS is so smooth, so easy, so intuitive. Even if your average person doesn't call it iOS or know when the OS stops and the app starts they do that the brilliance that made them jump from a dumb phone to an iPhone (when smartphone sales were allocated to business users and tech geeks) and from using their "PC" for general tasks to the iPad are because of the OS.
This is such great news. When Microsoft was allowed to freely copy Apple, the result was more than two decades of stagnation in the development of user interfaces. When a company like Microsoft can get away with intellectual property theft, the result is that a company that is institutionally incapable of innovation (Microsoft/Samsung/Google) can become the main benefactor of the innovations of an innovative company (Apple) and innovation will inevitably cease. The best case scenario is that as many of the fruits of an innovation as possible will go back to the innovator. This is an especially good outcome when a company has proved itself a systematic innovator and the company's culture has a proven track record of innovation. Meanwhile, companies that engage in systematic theft and cynical business practices need to be punished. Hopefully one day this will include Google too.
While Apple stresses values and innovation in their post-trial remarks, Samsung stresses thievery, dishonesty and makes an appeal to ignorant consumers, people with no moral fiber and idiots who do not see the importance and value behind intellectual property.
Samsung's statement could just as easily have been written by a gang of thugs who just got busted for mass producing fake rolexes, and then claiming that there is now much less choices for the consumer available.
[" url="/t/152125/apple-ceo-tim-cook-stresses-values-innovation-in-post-trial-remarks#post_2175670"]While Apple stresses values and innovation in their post-trial remarks, Samsung stresses thievery, dishonesty and makes an appeal to ignorant consumers, people with no moral fiber and idiots who do not see the importance and value behind intellectual property.
Samsung's statement could just as easily have been written by a gang of thugs who just got busted for mass producing fake rolexes, and then claiming that there is now much less choices for the consumer available.
What's crap? You don't exactly present a compelling argument.
Samsung got busted for stealing, even Apple uses that word in their press release to describe Samsung's actions.
And instead of owning up to the reality of the situation, and admitting that they were in the wrong by willfully ripping off Apple's products, Samsung spouts off some crap about the decision being bad for consumers.
[" url="/t/152125/apple-ceo-tim-cook-stresses-values-innovation-in-post-trial-remarks#post_2175734"]What's crap? You don't exactly present a compelling argument.
Samsung got busted for stealing, even Apple uses that word in their press release to describe Samsung's actions.
And instead of owning up to the reality of the situation, and admitting that they were in the wrong by willfully ripping off Apple's products, Samsung spouts off some crap about the decision being bad for consumers.
Anybody defending Samsung is full of crap.
Let's see, your comment that Samsung stresses thievery, dishonesty over all other in business. You've taken a single ruling in a single case to make a blanket statement about an entire company (which you've previously stated was all of SoKo). If you want to use your same poorly contrived and hateful comments to pigeonhole an entire company then what is stopping others from saying the same about Apple who have lost in the UK, SoKo, and plenty of times in the US over other issues of infringement.
You've taken a win for Apple and have cheapened it by saying everything Samsung ever does, has ever done, and will ever do is based around being dishonest and stealing without any indication that Samsung is a formidable and competent company in many ways. That's is crap!
Let's see, your comment that Samsung stresses thievery, dishonesty over all other in business. You've taken a single ruling in a single case to make a blanket statement about an entire company (which you've previously stated was all of SoKo). If you want to use your same poorly contrived and hateful comments to pigeonhole an entire company then what is stopping others from saying the same about Apple who have lost in the UK, SoKo, and plenty of times in the US over other issues of infringement.
You've taken a win for Apple and have cheapened it by saying everything Samsung ever does, has ever done, and will ever do is based around being dishonest and stealing without any indication that Samsung is a formidable and competent company in many ways. That's is crap!
Nope, I've never stated that Samsung was all of South Korea. I stated that Samsung is responsible for 20% of South Korea's income, and that they practically own South Korea, as that level of power is not exactly small. That country even pardoned the criminal, tax fraud boss of Samsung, who was guilty of stealing tons of money and evading taxes on billions! Samsung is too important to South Korea, and that country is in no way impartial to Samsung. They'll even forgive criminal actions by Samsung, because hurting Samsung is hurting South Korea.
And yes, I stand by my statement that Samsung stresses thievery. Samsung doesn't think that they did anything wrong, and neither do their supporters and various Fandroids. They believe that the patent system is broken, because Apple won. They don't believe that Apple should be able to patent any of their innovations.
This verdict found Samsung guilty of infringement on many of their devices, not just one or two. This is mass infringement on an unprecedented scale. There is a willful disregard for IP and the law by Samsung and their supporters. I can safely say that Samsung is a shady company, and this verdict was a big blow to them.
Let's see, your comment that Samsung stresses thievery, dishonesty over all other in business. You've taken a single ruling in a single case to make a blanket statement about an entire company (which you've previously stated was all of SoKo). If you want to use your same poorly contrived and hateful comments to pigeonhole an entire company then what is stopping others from saying the same about Apple who have lost in the UK, SoKo, and plenty of times in the US over other issues of infringement.
You've taken a win for Apple and have cheapened it by saying everything Samsung ever does, has ever done, and will ever do is based around being dishonest and stealing without any indication that Samsung is a formidable and competent company in many ways. That's is crap!
To be fair, there's more than one ruling. Samsung has been convicted of bribing the South Korean president, for example. They have a long history of breaking the law - and their behavior in this case confirms that they don't think the law applies to them. Four sanctions, violation of direct orders, going around the judge and hoping to get to the jury by the backdoor, and so on.
Comments
BTW for thos readers of Florian Mueller and his FossPatents blog, it will be interesting to see if Florian will start to develop the theory of and propose ideas for the best patent strategies to lock up both design and combined hardware/software innovations. There is a lot of data now in the courts, behind the scenes Apple et.al. Will be reacting. However, this could take years before we see it.
Probably true for the general public. We tend to think of physics - solid state electronics - as the true wizardry. And indeed it is wizardry. But as the computer age has evolved, Microsoft and Apple have taken a lion's share of industry profits. Two companies with heavy software focus. Obviously Apple is focused on a great end result and uses all weaponry - design , software and hardware, amongst others. Software is clearly equal to the other tools in the toolbox.
Congratulations, Apple!
The real value behind this legal battle, is that it answers the question, shall I innovate or shall I just copy?
It's the benchmark case almost like Enron - In the market, a company gets all the praise for its practice of dodgy accounting prior discovered, what happens to the honest companies? Shall they join the dishonest accounting practice or stay honest? It's very discouraging to see honest companies gets punished, dodgy companies wins. The ultimate collapse of Enron gives the clear answer.
Samsung case is not as dramatic, but it delivers a clear message to American companies. "I see companies copy others without any consequence, maybe we will all stop innovating and copy others." It would be discouraging for innovation. But this case set the answers straight. It shows that US does protect innovations, shows what is the right thing to do.
Samsung enjoyed phenomenal growth for the past decades, but it's a very dangerous thing that if they keep on copying, gets no punishment, but all the rewards. Then their appetite gets bigger and bigger. They can do more crazy things. This case would cause chaos for Samsung, just like Enron, proves that their old practice is no longer acceptable, they must find a new way. Ultimately good for Samsung, encourage them to innovate more. be a truly great company like Apple.
A bit?
The entertainment value of a Steve Jobs response would make the national news.
anyone else think apple is sitting on the next big ios update while all the new patents get granted ? we've seen quite a few from animated icons, and rotatary selections mechanisms get granted. this way then can sue immediately when launched if the competition follows suit.
Android community does have a lot of IP it has misappropriated, but this can be licensed. All non-Motorola OEMs have licensed MS IP and will have to license non-SEP Nokia and Apple. This is real cost of business and as Samsung MS license proves still be very price competitive.
Apple's real concern is products in the pipeline e.g., iPad mini, Apple TV, etc not have their IP copied. Its really not the money, Apple has lots, but rather pride of invention and risk rewarded.
There is a legitimate question regarding software patents in general that this case raises, but that is an open issue.
The service providers have been pushing not-Apple for a long time, their huge profit margins are at risk a bit by subsidy costs, but more by Apple's freedom to innovate without their OK, e.g., iMessage killing the SMS ripoff. They like cableTV are afraid Apple will really undermine their business models that yield fat margins, that is disruptive innovation and competition not stealing Apples ideas and selling at a discount.
Too bad his employees are not. Some retail worker is going to push this kind of stunt and get caught. And get fired.
Once again, Steve Jobs would have just pushed the "So Suck It" button, or swipe his iPhone with his middle finger.
iOS and it's widespread implementation has really transformed the way a lot of people compute today.
Don't underestimate iOS and what it means to the post-PC era (which I firmly believe is a real thing).
I say iOS is "overlooked" because really the software fades to the background as we interact with our devices. That's a good thing and perhaps is the essence of Apple's success.
Such tight integration of hardware and software is a beautiful thing.
Originally Posted by t2af
anyone else think apple is sitting on the next big ios update while all the new patents get granted ? we've seen quite a few from animated icons, and rotatary selections mechanisms get granted. this way then can sue immediately when launched if the competition follows suit.
They're sitting (working) on iOS 6. If there's something going to be in iOS 6 that we've not yet seen, it's 6th iPhone-exclusive.
I agree with AD. I don't think it's overlooked by another in the industry. At most, I think the general public will use the general term "iPhone" or "iPad" because it is so well integrated but that doesn't mean it's overlooked. I don't see any other argument for the success of the iPhone and iPad other than the OS is so smooth, so easy, so intuitive. Even if your average person doesn't call it iOS or know when the OS stops and the app starts they do that the brilliance that made them jump from a dumb phone to an iPhone (when smartphone sales were allocated to business users and tech geeks) and from using their "PC" for general tasks to the iPad are because of the OS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
An unfortunate fall-out from this trial:
... there were some pretty nice looking prototype designs from both Apple and Samsung.
Those designs are now a matter of public record and no other company can make any of them.
How is that unfortunate?
This is such great news. When Microsoft was allowed to freely copy Apple, the result was more than two decades of stagnation in the development of user interfaces. When a company like Microsoft can get away with intellectual property theft, the result is that a company that is institutionally incapable of innovation (Microsoft/Samsung/Google) can become the main benefactor of the innovations of an innovative company (Apple) and innovation will inevitably cease. The best case scenario is that as many of the fruits of an innovation as possible will go back to the innovator. This is an especially good outcome when a company has proved itself a systematic innovator and the company's culture has a proven track record of innovation. Meanwhile, companies that engage in systematic theft and cynical business practices need to be punished. Hopefully one day this will include Google too.
While Apple stresses values and innovation in their post-trial remarks, Samsung stresses thievery, dishonesty and makes an appeal to ignorant consumers, people with no moral fiber and idiots who do not see the importance and value behind intellectual property.
Samsung's statement could just as easily have been written by a gang of thugs who just got busted for mass producing fake rolexes, and then claiming that there is now much less choices for the consumer available.
That is such crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
That is such crap.
What's crap? You don't exactly present a compelling argument.
Samsung got busted for stealing, even Apple uses that word in their press release to describe Samsung's actions.
And instead of owning up to the reality of the situation, and admitting that they were in the wrong by willfully ripping off Apple's products, Samsung spouts off some crap about the decision being bad for consumers.
Anybody defending Samsung is full of crap.
Let's see, your comment that Samsung stresses thievery, dishonesty over all other in business. You've taken a single ruling in a single case to make a blanket statement about an entire company (which you've previously stated was all of SoKo). If you want to use your same poorly contrived and hateful comments to pigeonhole an entire company then what is stopping others from saying the same about Apple who have lost in the UK, SoKo, and plenty of times in the US over other issues of infringement.
You've taken a win for Apple and have cheapened it by saying everything Samsung ever does, has ever done, and will ever do is based around being dishonest and stealing without any indication that Samsung is a formidable and competent company in many ways. That's is crap!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Let's see, your comment that Samsung stresses thievery, dishonesty over all other in business. You've taken a single ruling in a single case to make a blanket statement about an entire company (which you've previously stated was all of SoKo). If you want to use your same poorly contrived and hateful comments to pigeonhole an entire company then what is stopping others from saying the same about Apple who have lost in the UK, SoKo, and plenty of times in the US over other issues of infringement.
You've taken a win for Apple and have cheapened it by saying everything Samsung ever does, has ever done, and will ever do is based around being dishonest and stealing without any indication that Samsung is a formidable and competent company in many ways. That's is crap!
Nope, I've never stated that Samsung was all of South Korea. I stated that Samsung is responsible for 20% of South Korea's income, and that they practically own South Korea, as that level of power is not exactly small. That country even pardoned the criminal, tax fraud boss of Samsung, who was guilty of stealing tons of money and evading taxes on billions! Samsung is too important to South Korea, and that country is in no way impartial to Samsung. They'll even forgive criminal actions by Samsung, because hurting Samsung is hurting South Korea.
And yes, I stand by my statement that Samsung stresses thievery. Samsung doesn't think that they did anything wrong, and neither do their supporters and various Fandroids. They believe that the patent system is broken, because Apple won. They don't believe that Apple should be able to patent any of their innovations.
This verdict found Samsung guilty of infringement on many of their devices, not just one or two. This is mass infringement on an unprecedented scale. There is a willful disregard for IP and the law by Samsung and their supporters. I can safely say that Samsung is a shady company, and this verdict was a big blow to them.
To be fair, there's more than one ruling. Samsung has been convicted of bribing the South Korean president, for example. They have a long history of breaking the law - and their behavior in this case confirms that they don't think the law applies to them. Four sanctions, violation of direct orders, going around the judge and hoping to get to the jury by the backdoor, and so on.