Through all this legal brouhaha I have wondered why not one person from Samsung has chosen to stand up and say "Yeah we copied them and it was wrong. Here are the secret emails to prove it." Or "Yeah I copied it because Mr. VP told me to." No one there has any integrity?
It's simple really, "American" design is something that designers who are employed by American companies are paid to produce.
It costs real money and it creates real jobs which are worth protecting.
Tim Cook summed it up when he said he doesn't want Apple to become the world's designer.
You are correct in that, however you miss my point. I was simply responding to the post above which claimed that Asians can't be creative and Western culture is better suited for "world design". However, much of what is considered "American" designed was most likely a multicultural effort. Americans, European, African, and Asian. Hell... "American" is itself multicultural in nature. We're not all caucasians from ol' Britannia.
Through all this legal brouhaha I have wondered why not one person from Samsung has chosen to stand up and say "Yeah we copied them and it was wrong. Here are the secret emails to prove it." Or "Yeah I copied it because Mr. VP told me to." No one there has any integrity?
Most likely anyone with any actual proof is on the take already. No reason for one of them to come forward. everyone else who suspected but weren't in the loop have no reason to speak out with no evidence and have the courts ignore him and at the same time lose their job.
Plus we're not talking about whistleblowing for big tobacco to save lives. It's just a grown-up toy. A really cool, world changing toy... but a toy none the less.
I think this is an important point that the jury (rightly, IMHO) picked up on early- there are other ways to design a smart phone. Blackberry and Nokia phones didn't look like iPhones, so why did Samsung decide theirs -had- to not only look like them, but try to duplicate the iOS user experience? Granted, when a company as innovative as Apple comes up with something that becomes an obvious standard, that doesn't mean it's not protected by patents.
I had this exact same thought. Hadn't read that line elsewhere, and it's critical. It was clearly not the natural-progression or inevitable-path that Samsung was forced to follow.
Hahaha..... I don't understand how you Apple fans still using an Iphone. Why dont you open your eyes and at least check comparations on youtube. Here it is one that you should see:
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:
Part 5:
So, here you are on a site dedicated to the Apple ecosystem but you are not interested in edifying other members but instead only in pointing out their faults. Why would you do that? Oh, you hope to help even one 'fan' see the light. Got a hint for you... if you are going to hang around, you might actually see the light - better run away before the unthinkable occurs!
Through all this legal brouhaha I have wondered why not one person from Samsung has chosen to stand up and say "Yeah we copied them and it was wrong. Here are the secret emails to prove it." Or "Yeah I copied it because Mr. VP told me to." No one there has any integrity?
That's extremely naive.
First, there was plenty of evidence presented in the court case which strongly established that Samsung did everything they could to copy the iPhone.
Second, few people are going to give up their jobs to do something like this.
Third, the fact that no one has stood up is further evidence that their corporate culture is such that copying is OK. The evidence is very strong that they DID copy, but if no one thinks there's anything wrong with that, they have a corporate culture problem - which was also established in the court case.
Finally, any emails that might have existed have been destroyed because of Samsung's evidence destruction procedures.
First, there was plenty of evidence presented in the court case which strongly established that Samsung did everything they could to copy the iPhone.
Second, few people are going to give up their jobs to do something like this.
Third, the fact that no one has stood up is further evidence that their corporate culture is such that copying is OK. The evidence is very strong that they DID copy, but if no one thinks there's anything wrong with that, they have a corporate culture problem - which was also established in the court case.
Finally, any emails that might have existed have been destroyed because of Samsung's evidence destruction procedures.
Yeah I know all that, but still. You would think that with all the tens of thousands of people there that one of them might think there could be something in it for them if they corroborated presented evidence. I would have loved to see one of the designers come forward and say they were told to do it. That would have raised the fine and damages ultimately.
Given the certitude in the jury, it's interesting that Judge Koh, on the other hand, was framing this as an equally risky proposition for both sides, in urging Apple to settle.
Either she was clueless in reading the jury, or...... (hypothesis?)
Anyway, I am predicting that she does not treble damages nor go with the injunction. I hope I am wrong.
Judges need to show impartiality for the cases that they are handling. Otherwise, it gives the parties additional opportunities to appeal the case. The injunction is fair & appears to be Apple's motive in this case. I see their motive is to prevent the copycat phones from being sold, the handset maker will release new designs that aren't infringing, which is what they have always wanted. If Samsung was smart, then they already have addressed this possibility & have new designs ready to go to market. However, I question Samsung's competence as they have been in a contentious legal fight with their largest customer. Samsung has had many opportunities to settle, before Apple filed the lawsuit, they offered Samsung the opportunity to license Apple's patents & Apple was open to cross-licensing, so Samsung would have made some revenue in return. They could have possibly kept a profitable customer. Now all that is lost & Apple appears to be in the process of finding new suppliers
I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers. Conflict of interest. Period.
EIther they want to make components for others as a vendor or they want to make components for their own products. One or the other, but not both.
I think there should be a law, if there isn't already, where a component supplier's cannot enter the same market as their customers.
What would happen if Samsung decided that as of tomorrow that they were not supplying any components to Apple? How long would it take for Apple to get a court order for Samsung to honor their contract?
I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers. Conflict of interest. Period.
EIther they want to make components for others as a vendor or they want to make components for their own products. One or the other, but not both.
I think there should be a law, if there isn't already, where a component supplier's cannot enter the same market as their customers.
I don't think you've quite thought that one through, have you? Samsung produced phones long before Apple were in the phone market. And Apple then chose Samsung as a supplier, nobody forced them.
At this time Apple need Samsung components and Samsung are happy to meet their contractual obligations.
Its called free trade, and your proposal would not stand up legally in any country in the world.
What would happen if Samsung decided that as of tomorrow that they were not supplying any components to Apple? How long would it take for Apple to get a court order for Samsung to honor their contract?
Hours or days. It IS possible to get an emergency hearing when it's justified.
Yeah I know all that, but still. You would think that with all the tens of thousands of people there that one of them might think there could be something in it for them if they corroborated presented evidence. I would have loved to see one of the designers come forward and say they were told to do it. That would have raised the fine and damages ultimately.
Again, you're not being realistic. Expecting someone to come forward to speak out against their employer is unreasonable - particularly in an Asian culture.
Besides, they didn't need employees to step forward. The written documents (at least the ones that weren't destroyed) speak for themselves.
Well done, jurors. Well done. Common sense prevailed. If only the trolls on this site were equally inclined.
And now we see clearly how distorted the worldview is of the Apple-haters and the rectanglez trolls. They are nowhere near mainstream in their views: their tech/gadget/specs elitism does not represent the view of the average person.
Very glad this came down in Apple's favor as it means a lot of good things.
1) Patents are important and though they can be abused by large companies or patent trolls they also allow innovators to come from a nowhere background & break into recognition & wealth. Take that away & big companies will still prosper, they don't really need patents necessarily to throw their weight around. Take away patents & what reason does anyone have to develop & market good ideas, it'd be a huge waste of time & money. Anyone who's ever tried to develop, get investment, and market an invention understands this & the "haters" don't understand this because they've never taken that kind of risk.
2) If you live in America you should be especially happy about this win. Too often we've seen certain foreign companies come in & simply copy competition while undercutting them on price. It's one of the reasons American companies have had to move production overseas as they just can't compete with that any other way. Hopefully this win is a slap to those companies that they can't just make blatant knock offs & then undercut pricing of those who invested the actual time & resources on the R&D. Samsung's first phone was a color production of the originally submitted patent designs by Apple, I mean talk about shameless.
I don't care if Apple sells more phones or Google does or whoever, it isn't about brand for me. It's about rewarding innovation & recognizing thieves like Samsung for who they are. If someone comes out a year from now & proves Apple stole their IP, so be it, I won't cry any. We need to get things cleaned up, the world has become to comfortable with cheating to get ahead.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN
Exactly my point.
Although it is worth noting the leading design schools are in the US and Europe (with faculty and students from around the world.)
It's also worth noting that most designers end up staying in the country where they finish their design education.
What survey/study can you cite to back the claim that design students stay in the country of their education more than most other fields?
Through all this legal brouhaha I have wondered why not one person from Samsung has chosen to stand up and say "Yeah we copied them and it was wrong. Here are the secret emails to prove it." Or "Yeah I copied it because Mr. VP told me to." No one there has any integrity?
You are correct in that, however you miss my point. I was simply responding to the post above which claimed that Asians can't be creative and Western culture is better suited for "world design". However, much of what is considered "American" designed was most likely a multicultural effort. Americans, European, African, and Asian. Hell... "American" is itself multicultural in nature. We're not all caucasians from ol' Britannia.
Most likely anyone with any actual proof is on the take already. No reason for one of them to come forward. everyone else who suspected but weren't in the loop have no reason to speak out with no evidence and have the courts ignore him and at the same time lose their job.
Plus we're not talking about whistleblowing for big tobacco to save lives. It's just a grown-up toy. A really cool, world changing toy... but a toy none the less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccaguy
I think this is an important point that the jury (rightly, IMHO) picked up on early- there are other ways to design a smart phone. Blackberry and Nokia phones didn't look like iPhones, so why did Samsung decide theirs -had- to not only look like them, but try to duplicate the iOS user experience? Granted, when a company as innovative as Apple comes up with something that becomes an obvious standard, that doesn't mean it's not protected by patents.
I had this exact same thought. Hadn't read that line elsewhere, and it's critical. It was clearly not the natural-progression or inevitable-path that Samsung was forced to follow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimo
Hahaha..... I don't understand how you Apple fans still using an Iphone. Why dont you open your eyes and at least check comparations on youtube. Here it is one that you should see:
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:
Part 5:
So, here you are on a site dedicated to the Apple ecosystem but you are not interested in edifying other members but instead only in pointing out their faults. Why would you do that? Oh, you hope to help even one 'fan' see the light. Got a hint for you... if you are going to hang around, you might actually see the light - better run away before the unthinkable occurs!
That's extremely naive.
First, there was plenty of evidence presented in the court case which strongly established that Samsung did everything they could to copy the iPhone.
Second, few people are going to give up their jobs to do something like this.
Third, the fact that no one has stood up is further evidence that their corporate culture is such that copying is OK. The evidence is very strong that they DID copy, but if no one thinks there's anything wrong with that, they have a corporate culture problem - which was also established in the court case.
Finally, any emails that might have existed have been destroyed because of Samsung's evidence destruction procedures.
I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers. Conflict of interest. Period.
EIther they want to make components for others as a vendor or they want to make components for their own products. One or the other, but not both.
I think there should be a law, if there isn't already, where a component supplier's cannot enter the same market as their customers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimo
Hahaha..... I don't understand how you Apple fans still using an Iphone.
The comparisons have already been done. The results:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57398726-37/iphone-again-scores-top-spot-at-customer-satisfaction/
http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/16/iphone-waltzes-into-top-spot-of-us-phone-satisfaction-index/
http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/01/09/iphone-satisfaction-at-75-closest-competitor-at-47/
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
That's extremely naive.
First, there was plenty of evidence presented in the court case which strongly established that Samsung did everything they could to copy the iPhone.
Second, few people are going to give up their jobs to do something like this.
Third, the fact that no one has stood up is further evidence that their corporate culture is such that copying is OK. The evidence is very strong that they DID copy, but if no one thinks there's anything wrong with that, they have a corporate culture problem - which was also established in the court case.
Finally, any emails that might have existed have been destroyed because of Samsung's evidence destruction procedures.
Yeah I know all that, but still. You would think that with all the tens of thousands of people there that one of them might think there could be something in it for them if they corroborated presented evidence. I would have loved to see one of the designers come forward and say they were told to do it. That would have raised the fine and damages ultimately.
Judges need to show impartiality for the cases that they are handling. Otherwise, it gives the parties additional opportunities to appeal the case. The injunction is fair & appears to be Apple's motive in this case. I see their motive is to prevent the copycat phones from being sold, the handset maker will release new designs that aren't infringing, which is what they have always wanted. If Samsung was smart, then they already have addressed this possibility & have new designs ready to go to market. However, I question Samsung's competence as they have been in a contentious legal fight with their largest customer. Samsung has had many opportunities to settle, before Apple filed the lawsuit, they offered Samsung the opportunity to license Apple's patents & Apple was open to cross-licensing, so Samsung would have made some revenue in return. They could have possibly kept a profitable customer. Now all that is lost & Apple appears to be in the process of finding new suppliers
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers. Conflict of interest. Period.
EIther they want to make components for others as a vendor or they want to make components for their own products. One or the other, but not both.
I think there should be a law, if there isn't already, where a component supplier's cannot enter the same market as their customers.
What would happen if Samsung decided that as of tomorrow that they were not supplying any components to Apple? How long would it take for Apple to get a court order for Samsung to honor their contract?
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers. Conflict of interest. Period.
EIther they want to make components for others as a vendor or they want to make components for their own products. One or the other, but not both.
I think there should be a law, if there isn't already, where a component supplier's cannot enter the same market as their customers.
I don't think you've quite thought that one through, have you? Samsung produced phones long before Apple were in the phone market. And Apple then chose Samsung as a supplier, nobody forced them.
At this time Apple need Samsung components and Samsung are happy to meet their contractual obligations.
Its called free trade, and your proposal would not stand up legally in any country in the world.
Hours or days. It IS possible to get an emergency hearing when it's justified.
Again, you're not being realistic. Expecting someone to come forward to speak out against their employer is unreasonable - particularly in an Asian culture.
Besides, they didn't need employees to step forward. The written documents (at least the ones that weren't destroyed) speak for themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Well done, jurors. Well done. Common sense prevailed. If only the trolls on this site were equally inclined.
And now we see clearly how distorted the worldview is of the Apple-haters and the rectanglez trolls. They are nowhere near mainstream in their views: their tech/gadget/specs elitism does not represent the view of the average person.
Very glad this came down in Apple's favor as it means a lot of good things.
1) Patents are important and though they can be abused by large companies or patent trolls they also allow innovators to come from a nowhere background & break into recognition & wealth. Take that away & big companies will still prosper, they don't really need patents necessarily to throw their weight around. Take away patents & what reason does anyone have to develop & market good ideas, it'd be a huge waste of time & money. Anyone who's ever tried to develop, get investment, and market an invention understands this & the "haters" don't understand this because they've never taken that kind of risk.
2) If you live in America you should be especially happy about this win. Too often we've seen certain foreign companies come in & simply copy competition while undercutting them on price. It's one of the reasons American companies have had to move production overseas as they just can't compete with that any other way. Hopefully this win is a slap to those companies that they can't just make blatant knock offs & then undercut pricing of those who invested the actual time & resources on the R&D. Samsung's first phone was a color production of the originally submitted patent designs by Apple, I mean talk about shameless.
I don't care if Apple sells more phones or Google does or whoever, it isn't about brand for me. It's about rewarding innovation & recognizing thieves like Samsung for who they are. If someone comes out a year from now & proves Apple stole their IP, so be it, I won't cry any. We need to get things cleaned up, the world has become to comfortable with cheating to get ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers. Conflict of interest. Period.
If you banned Samsung in making product then don't expect your Apple with make a perfect innovation.