Apple designers reportedly divided over use of skeuomorphic UIs

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  • Reply 21 of 122
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,153member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

    Another negative point is that it also bloats apps because they need to include multiple versions all those texture images for different resolution displays.

    How is it a bloat if the user never knows about it?! It is true that every apps needs two resolutions (in case of universal app you need four) but that is not a big problem for user. It is a little bit more work for developers though.

    I personally think sometimes it is too much for some apps like friends finder but I like it for the calendar.

  • Reply 22 of 122
    SKEUMORPHIC CRAP JUST FLAT OUT DOESN'T MATCH JONY IVE'S ELEGANT MODERN MINIMALISTIC HARDWARE DESIGN. It bastardized Ive's work. That's what it is. I think Forstall is out of touch with reality and is trying too hard to be like Steve Jobs. The dude needs to go.

    I'm not anti-skeumorphism. It's appropriate on certain things but it's been taken way too far by Apple it's really distasteful.
  • Reply 23 of 122
    pokepoke Posts: 506member


    Apple makes its UIs look like stuff, sells millions. Microsoft makes its UIs look like glossy magazines, impresses designers, fails in the marketplace.

  • Reply 24 of 122
    Great article. This design stuff needs to go away. OS X is starting to look distracting and stupid. Especially to the young crowd who don't know what a card table is and cant relate to this or other design elements.

    Apple at least allow us to apply skins and turn the default crap off.

    Been using Macs since the Mac Plus.
  • Reply 25 of 122
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,213moderator
    bdkennedy1 wrote:
    Skeuomorphic interfaces make no sense to me.

    Design, artwork, music, poetry is all there to conjure up an emotion or sense of purpose. You can't do that without association.

    If you take away any association, all you do is create another one. Jony Ive was quite happy with the iPhoto software:

    "Get it right, and you become closer and more focused on the object. For instance, the iPhoto app we created for the new iPad, it completely consumes you and you forget you are using an iPad."

    but not with the leather:

    'When asked about skeuomorphic design features like fake leather texture and stitching in iOS and OS X, he visibly winced in a way that the interviewer interpreted as a "gesture of sympathy."

    "My focus is very much working with the other teams on the product ideas and then developing the hardware and so that's our focus and that's our responsibility," Ive said. "In terms of those elements you're talking about, I'm not really connected to that."'

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/05/23/apple_designer_jonathan_ive_says_current_projects_are_his_most_important_work.html

    The iPhoto app doesn't look or behave like a photo album that we would be familiar with in real life. It could be a shelf of albums and opening an album is like a scrap book with photos skewed across various pages with notes on them. Less functional and efficient perhaps but more creative.

    If every UI simply had a sterile, efficient appearance, there would be no immediate famiiarity and that's more confusing to a user. This is one of the iPad's biggest strengths - the rubber-banding effect, the precise tracking of your finger, pinch to zoom, the visual rotation when you turn the iPad. These aren't essential elements for a computer UI but they are what we expect in real-life and that's what makes them intuitive.

    There's an issue of quality and I'd say the textures and embossing could have been done a lot better than they are and should have been more subtle but I think they should maintain a sense of association and give their apps an identity.
  • Reply 26 of 122


    There's a reason Jobs supported the idea (it was there throughout all Apple interfaces since his return) and there's a reason for Apple's success *with* the idea. 


     


    Would it really matter at this point if there was a move away from it? I'm not sure. But Apple needs to maintain differentiation, and skeumorphic designs have been at the heart of it. I can certainly see its place.


     


    Apple's interfaces are *already* unmatched in the industry. So, whichever they choose, there's plenty of reason to expect that to continue. 


     


    And before any of you go on and rag on Forstall, he's the man behind iOS. He knows his shit, and apparently, is the most Jobsian of the bunch. Which is a *good* thing. 

  • Reply 27 of 122
    I understand what they're trying to say about skeuomorphism but for the love of god please don't ever go the direction Microsoft is now. Instead of images that suggest anything at all, Microsoft has replaced everything with colored squares. That makes it impossible to understand what anything does without stopping and reading text. Simply terrible. I'll take a "cute" interface over a grid of unidentifiable sameness any day.
  • Reply 28 of 122
    Backwards and stupid! Very limiting.
    It a a computer interface. Not a physical object!
    Get rid of what there is already.
  • Reply 29 of 122

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    Design, artwork, music, poetry is all there to conjure up an emotion or sense of purpose. You can't do that without association.

    If you take away any association, all you do is create another one. Jony Ive was quite happy with the iPhoto software:

    "Get it right, and you become closer and more focused on the object. For instance, the iPhoto app we created for the new iPad, it completely consumes you and you forget you are using an iPad."

    but not with the leather:


     


    I'll admit, this is a good point. 

  • Reply 30 of 122


    Apple does indeed have UI schism deep within the company. A sore spot on an otherwise spotless company. The leather bound stuff is atrocious. This is not an opinion, it's fact. 

  • Reply 31 of 122


    Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post

    Backwards and stupid! Very limiting.

    It a a computer interface. Not a physical object!

    Get rid of what there is already.


     


    Right, computers should be completely foreign to everyone using them.






    Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

    The leather bound stuff is atrocious. This is not an opinion, it's fact. 



     


    Except that's a complete lie.

  • Reply 32 of 122
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,594member
    Marvin wrote: »
    If every UI simply had a sterile, efficient appearance, there would be no immediate famiiarity and that's more confusing to a user. This is one of the iPad's biggest strengths - the rubber-banding effect, the precise tracking of your finger, pinch to zoom, the visual rotation when you turn the iPad. These aren't essential elements for a computer UI but they are what we expect in real-life and that's what makes them intuitive.
    There's an issue of quality and I'd say the textures and embossing could have been done a lot better than they are and should have been more subtle but I think they should maintain a sense of association and give their apps an identity.
    Yes, a sense of association is definitely important as it helps the user. But clearly some of the elements mentioned in the article have gone too far and look corny. The partially ripped page remnant is just fancy vanity. The iBook page turn otoh is functional and helpful.

    I think a big part of this is 'fun'. UI design, IMO, should also be fun, clever, and pretty. Design is moving target, it is always evolving, and it is hard to stay fresh. But I for one is done with the leather bound books, the quill, the 50's typewriter and all that 'ye olde' retro iconography.

    Please, allow the designers to dazzle us as well as create usable, awesome, and helpful design. But please, use some restraint. The bookshelves, the leather and stitching, and the game center et all, needs to be smothered before it goes any further. It's embarrassing.
  • Reply 33 of 122
    wurm5150 wrote: »
    SKEUMORPHIC CRAP JUST FLAT OUT DOESN'T MATCH JONY IVE'S ELEGANT MODERN MINIMALISTIC HARDWARE DESIGN.

    I'd say Jony Ive's minimalistic hardware design is what lets the hardware get out of the way so we can focus on software. Jobs always said at the heart of it, Apple is a software company.

    yojimbo007 wrote: »
    Backwards and stupid! Very limiting. It a a computer interface. Not a physical object!

    And what's a computer interface? Are you old enough to know those black screens with green text? Those were computer interfaces...
    The leather bound stuff is atrocious. This is not an opinion, it's fact. 

    That's an opinion. You're entitled to it. It just doesn't apply to everyone.
    I think it depends on what the software is and it doesn't need to be system wide.
    I think the bookshelf in iBooks looks great.

    Agreed, how else should Apple do a bookshelf? Just a list of books? Oh yeah, you can change the interface to that.

    I think it has gone too far as well. I would rather have a clean, modern look. I don't need to be fooled into thinking I'm using something in the real world.

    What is a clean modern look? Metro? Android? I'll take Apple's UI over the others anyday.
  • Reply 34 of 122
    paxman wrote: »
    Please, allow the designers to dazzle us as well as create usable, awesome, and helpful design. But please, use some restraint. The bookshelves, the leather and stitching, and the game center et all, needs to be smothered before it goes any further. It's embarrassing.

    Oh come on, are you really embarrassed? You're ashamed to be seen using it?

    I think Game Center's interface is clever and beautiful, unique specifically to it's app. I don't even use it.

    Tell me how you'd replace the bookshelf? Empty grid? Because showing the book covers is of visual importance. Yes you can have a scrolling table of book titles. It's minimal and functional. It doesn't excite or give a good feeling at all. It's BLAH. Go to Android. That's visual vomit.

    But then again, I'm a developer and I won't give the time of day to a crappy looking app. May have the world best feature buried in it, but if it looks like empty garbage, I'm not going to buy it because I want to feel good using it. But I also understand that everyone is not the same.
  • Reply 35 of 122
    paxman wrote: »
    Yes, a sense of association is definitely important as it helps the user. But clearly some of the elements mentioned in the article have gone too far and look corny. The partially ripped page remnant is just fancy vanity. The iBook page turn otoh is functional and helpful.
    I think a big part of this is 'fun'. UI design, IMO, should also be fun, clever, and pretty. Design is moving target, it is always evolving, and it is hard to stay fresh. But I for one is done with the leather bound books, the quill, the 50's typewriter and all that 'ye olde' retro iconography.
    Please, allow the designers to dazzle us as well as create usable, awesome, and helpful design. But please, use some restraint. The bookshelves, the leather and stitching, and the game center et all, needs to be smothered before it goes any further. It's embarrassing.

    Well said. Spare function use is fine, but don't let it distract. Obviously easer said than done. IMO(which counts for zilch) they have over done it on some things(leather looks blah to me, page turn, microphone, tape recorder are fine), let Sir Johnny make the call.
  • Reply 36 of 122
    These UI design elements have their place. I feel they warm up the interface. Balance of course is important so Apple UI designers
  • Reply 37 of 122


    These UI design elements have their place.  I feel they warm up the interface.  Balance of course is important so Apple UI designers & their management team do well to try to manage its use in the OS.  On a personal note, I don't really like the Game Center UI, but I understand the point Apple wanted to get across to its users with the look and feel it creates for the gaming environment.

  • Reply 38 of 122
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,118member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post



    SKEUMORPHIC CRAP JUST FLAT OUT DOESN'T MATCH JONY IVE'S ELEGANT MODERN MINIMALISTIC HARDWARE DESIGN. It bastardized Ive's work. That's what it is. I think Forstall is out of touch with reality and is trying too hard to be like Steve Jobs. The dude needs to go.

    I'm not anti-skeumorphism. It's appropriate on certain things but it's been taken way too far by Apple it's really distasteful.


     


    Who else at Apple needs to go? Please go ahead and make us a list. Ive should go too, everything Apple has come out with lately has looked the same. Wheres the innovation, right? Cook needs to go to. Hiring that tool Browett, whats up with that, eh? Cause you clearly know what's up. Nevermind the fact that Forstall is the architect of iOS since it's inception, not to mention being considered one of the most important and critical people at Apple, up there with Cook and Ive. But yeah, he's 'disconnected from reality' because you don't like something, and 'needs to go'. You can have an opinion without being a complete ass about it. 


     


    Grow the **** up. Forstall is the closest thing to Steve Jobs left at Apple, and possibly the most important person there. 

  • Reply 39 of 122
    ronboronbo Posts: 669member
    This debate reminds me of the architect Louis I Kahn, who once said, "To make a thing deliberately beautiful is a dastardly act" -- and meant it. Some of these designers who are such zealots that that just eschew every slightest embellishment...
  • Reply 40 of 122
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,118member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    There's a reason Jobs supported the idea (it was there throughout all Apple interfaces since his return) and there's a reason for Apple's success *with* the idea. 


     


    Would it really matter at this point if there was a move away from it? I'm not sure. But Apple needs to maintain differentiation, and skeumorphic designs have been at the heart of it. I can certainly see its place.


     


    Apple's interfaces are *already* unmatched in the industry. So, whichever they choose, there's plenty of reason to expect that to continue. 


     


    And before any of you go on and rag on Forstall, he's the man behind iOS. He knows his shit, and apparently, is the most Jobsian of the bunch. Which is a *good* thing. 



     


    I'm waiting for you to have one NON completely rational, intelligent, well thought out post on this board, and I haven't seen it yet. You pretty much hit the nail on the head each time and make me think twice about whether I should bother to post. 

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