After playing with Apple's new Map application, I will say this. It is very fast at drawing maps, and at rerouting directions. In my limited tests, it has been accurate as well.
Thanks for the article. I believe my thoughts on the matter were already in alignment with his assessment. I am sad that Apple screwed this up so badly, but I work with a lot of database stuff so I understand how these things can go haywire pretty easily. Perhaps his best idea was to set up some kind of crowd source and I might add that there is nothing wrong with looking at what Google is presenting for the same location once a user submits a correction request. But again I don't know how on earth they plan to fix data that they don't own except by augmenting it independently but that is just a bandaid on top of a kludge.
There's no better way to tell Apple they missed the mark than to not use it.
Yes, except that would be stupid. Apple needs the data to improve it. Further, the application for 90 percent of the people is very good. As I said previously, it adds turn by turn, draws very fast, and re-routes quickly. It is beautiful to look at.
I suspect many people like myself didn't even use Google maps on the iPhone. I didn't. Google maps didn't have turn by turn, didn't draw fast, and didn't function like a typical GPS unit. I used Navigon. If Maps fails, I will switch between the two.
Thanks for the article. I believe my thoughts on the matter were already in alignment with his assessment. I am sad that Apple screwed this up so bad, but I work with a lot of database stuff so I understand how these things can go haywire pretty easily. Perhaps his best idea was to set up some kind of crowd source and I might add that there is nothing wrong with looking at what Google is presenting for the same location once a user submits a correction request.
Except I am still confused as to how Apple screwed things up so bad. It is a map of the whole freaking world. There are errors for some. I haven't seen any errors yet. I live int he US. Further, Apple has added user input controls. If something is wrong, report it.
Me wanting to be able to upgrade RAM and HDD on my own is not getting? Those are basics and Apple has had it on most of their computers for a while. Heck i just bought a new computer from them that still offers that option! I don't mind the other stuff being non-upgradable, and I do like Apples approach for hardware/software integration.. its the whole reason I own an Apple and not a PC. The decision to prevent RAM and HDD upgrades however stinks of profiteering and not any real design agenda. The whole "you don't get it" line just makes Apple users look like assholes, so for the sake of those of us (and I believe it to be the majority of Apple users) who like the company but aren't afraid to criticize once in a while, please keep your snobbish attitude to yourself. A company needs feedback in order to keep providing customers with what they want. Yes, Apple also redefines the rules sometimes and gives people something they didn't even know they wanted... that great, but the upgradability of HDD and RAM is NOT one of those instances.
Agree
Too many Apple apologists in our midst. Don't be afraid speak your mind. Jobs certainly didn't.
Except I am still confused as to how Apple screwed things up so bad. It is a map of the whole freaking world. There are errors for some. I haven't seen any errors yet. I live int he US. Further, Apple has added user input controls. If something is wrong, report it.
As I have mentioned I really only used maps for two main features both of which are very poorly implemented in Apple maps in my evaluation, but can be worked around using Google's web app, however, after reading that Tumblr blog with page after page of really awful errors I actually felt sick thinking what kind of crisis management Apple must be going through.
I love how articles about this are written as though Apple hadn't thought to hire anyone to keep it up and that they thought nothing was wrong with it. How Apple was completely blindsided and is desperately trying to hire people to fix it.
I know your qualifications. You started out your career here at AI by suggesting that Apple buy Facebook, and touting Mark Zuckerburg as the next Steve Jobs.
Carry on, we're not listening.
the fact you looked up my posts proves you are very much listening.
you know you will keep following my posts. obediant mouse.
In business, this is what we call a moat, and Google has invested significant money and manpower creating one of the largest and most effective moats I’ve ever seen--around their mapping software. They’ve got planes. They’ve got satellites. They’ve got cars and bikes with those crazy nine-eyed cameras. They’ve got hikers and bikers going on treks and trails. They’ve got trolleys rolling through museums and businesses. They’ve got public tram, bus, and trolley schedules. They’ve got traffic updates and estimated arrival times. They’ve got businesses signed onto place pages. They’ve got Frommer’s and Zagat. They’ve got a user-review system that’s popular and reliable. They’ve got travel information, navigation, points of interest, turn-by-turn directions...and it’s all free on their mobile platform. And they even have a crowd-sourcing option called Map Maker. And then you think about their data servers and their data organization prowess. Their ability to squeeze every bit of information from their collection process, organize it, and present it back to the world in a useful and lucrative manner.
The barrier to entry here is staggering. One does not simply walk into Mordor create a world map on the fly. It takes years and planning and vision. This is a massive moat, and the only thing Apple or any other competitors can do is to spend billions developing their own ground-truthing efforts or buying other mapping companies.
Actually, this would probably be a good time to own stock in the old telenav systems, because those companies are likely to be snatched up for their data sets by Google’s competitors.
This article sums everything up nicely: "iOS 6 is more about Apple than new user features"
Let's talk about why iOS6 is more about Apple than it's users.
Let's talk about why they keep releasing products that aren't finished.
Let's talk about why they have 100B in the bank and give money back to the shareholders, yet spend 1/3 of the money on R&D that Google and Microsoft do.
Why do any of us care about Google's bottom line? I sure as hell don't. I just want the features back that I had before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
Get off your high-horse. You'd just love to spin some kind of iHating propaganda to suit your iHating agenda.
I'm glad Apple jettisoned Google off the iPhone. Apple just removed millions of dollars and tracked-users from Google's bottom line. I'm using the new Maps feature, have you?? Sure it's not polished as Google's offerings but let's re-address this discussion a few months from now see how much crow you'll be eating.
The reality is that most people will happy with it and look forward to improvements. Sad people like you with nothing better to do will just find something else to whine about.
So get back to your mom's basement and stop pissing in everyone's pool.
Let's talk about WHY iOS6 is more about Apple than it's users.
Let's talk about why they keep releasing products that aren't finished.
Let's talk about why they have 100B in the bank and give money back to the shareholders, yet spend 1/3 of the money on R&D that Google and Microsoft do.
So, let's talk about it. Why don't you start and run down the list of 200 new features and explain in detail why each of them is more about Apple than it's users.
Then, you can explain to us with your inside knowledge of Apple, hardware and software development, exactly what finished means and how you determine it.
Then, you can explain to us how the amount of money spent relates to the quality of R&D. Here's a hint for that last one: it doesn't.
So, go on, you wanted to, talk about it now. Frankly, I don't think you have a coherent comment to make. I think you're just here to bellow and vent your spleen. You could surprise me, though, although I very much doubt it.
Otherwise, you should probably follow the friendly advice of the previous poster, you know, before you end up looking like more of a fool.
Cartography is a area of little interest to most people.
Gotta say, I love cartography. Specifically alternate history cartography.
Originally Posted by Waverunnr
Let's talk about why they have 100B in the bank and give money back to the shareholders, yet spend 1/3 of the money on R&D that Google and Microsoft do.
Apple has been using that "200 features" line forever. Good luck trying to count all 200. When I look at Apple's own iOS6 What's New Page, I don't see anything near 200 features.
And since they took features away, shouldn't that actually go against that number?
What does "finished" mean? It means releasing a product that has MORE features, not LESS than the previous version. It means releasing a product that actually works and isn't a buggy piece of crap
I'm not the one that looks like a fool here. It's Apple for sinking so incredibly low by putting their hatred of google ahead of the interests of its users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Oh, how cute, a link.
So, let's talk about it. Why don't you start and run down the list of 200 new features and explain in detail why each of them is more about Apple than it's users.
Then, you can explain to us with your inside knowledge of Apple, hardware and software development, exactly what finished means and how you determine it.
Then, you can explain to us how the amount of money spent relates to the quality of R&D. Here's a hint for that last one: it doesn't.
So, go on, you wanted to, talk about it now. Frankly, I don't think you have a coherent comment to make. I think you're just here to bellow and vent your spleen. You could surprise me, though, although I very much doubt it.
Otherwise, you should probably follow the friendly advice of the previous poster, you know, before you end up looking like more of a fool.
Comments
After playing with Apple's new Map application, I will say this. It is very fast at drawing maps, and at rerouting directions. In my limited tests, it has been accurate as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Here's an interesting read:
Expert in cartography explains the issues with Apple’s Maps
http://9to5m?c.com/2012/09/21/expert-cartography-ph-d-explains-the-issues-with-apples-maps/
Thanks for the article. I believe my thoughts on the matter were already in alignment with his assessment. I am sad that Apple screwed this up so badly, but I work with a lot of database stuff so I understand how these things can go haywire pretty easily. Perhaps his best idea was to set up some kind of crowd source and I might add that there is nothing wrong with looking at what Google is presenting for the same location once a user submits a correction request. But again I don't know how on earth they plan to fix data that they don't own except by augmenting it independently but that is just a bandaid on top of a kludge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
There's no better way to tell Apple they missed the mark than to not use it.
Yes, except that would be stupid. Apple needs the data to improve it. Further, the application for 90 percent of the people is very good. As I said previously, it adds turn by turn, draws very fast, and re-routes quickly. It is beautiful to look at.
I suspect many people like myself didn't even use Google maps on the iPhone. I didn't. Google maps didn't have turn by turn, didn't draw fast, and didn't function like a typical GPS unit. I used Navigon. If Maps fails, I will switch between the two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Thanks for the article. I believe my thoughts on the matter were already in alignment with his assessment. I am sad that Apple screwed this up so bad, but I work with a lot of database stuff so I understand how these things can go haywire pretty easily. Perhaps his best idea was to set up some kind of crowd source and I might add that there is nothing wrong with looking at what Google is presenting for the same location once a user submits a correction request.
Except I am still confused as to how Apple screwed things up so bad. It is a map of the whole freaking world. There are errors for some. I haven't seen any errors yet. I live int he US. Further, Apple has added user input controls. If something is wrong, report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msalganik
Me wanting to be able to upgrade RAM and HDD on my own is not getting? Those are basics and Apple has had it on most of their computers for a while. Heck i just bought a new computer from them that still offers that option! I don't mind the other stuff being non-upgradable, and I do like Apples approach for hardware/software integration.. its the whole reason I own an Apple and not a PC. The decision to prevent RAM and HDD upgrades however stinks of profiteering and not any real design agenda. The whole "you don't get it" line just makes Apple users look like assholes, so for the sake of those of us (and I believe it to be the majority of Apple users) who like the company but aren't afraid to criticize once in a while, please keep your snobbish attitude to yourself. A company needs feedback in order to keep providing customers with what they want. Yes, Apple also redefines the rules sometimes and gives people something they didn't even know they wanted... that great, but the upgradability of HDD and RAM is NOT one of those instances.
Agree
Too many Apple apologists in our midst. Don't be afraid speak your mind. Jobs certainly didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
Except I am still confused as to how Apple screwed things up so bad. It is a map of the whole freaking world. There are errors for some. I haven't seen any errors yet. I live int he US. Further, Apple has added user input controls. If something is wrong, report it.
As I have mentioned I really only used maps for two main features both of which are very poorly implemented in Apple maps in my evaluation, but can be worked around using Google's web app, however, after reading that Tumblr blog with page after page of really awful errors I actually felt sick thinking what kind of crisis management Apple must be going through.
I love how articles about this are written as though Apple hadn't thought to hire anyone to keep it up and that they thought nothing was wrong with it. How Apple was completely blindsided and is desperately trying to hire people to fix it.
Did I say love? I didn't mean love…
steady on mouse, dont get nasty now...
exactly, blind loyalty helps nobody
the fact you looked up my posts proves you are very much listening.
you know you will keep following my posts. obediant mouse.
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/09/how-google-builds-its-maps-and-what-it-means-for-the-future-of-everything/261913/
In business, this is what we call a moat, and Google has invested significant money and manpower creating one of the largest and most effective moats I’ve ever seen--around their mapping software. They’ve got planes. They’ve got satellites. They’ve got cars and bikes with those crazy nine-eyed cameras. They’ve got hikers and bikers going on treks and trails. They’ve got trolleys rolling through museums and businesses. They’ve got public tram, bus, and trolley schedules. They’ve got traffic updates and estimated arrival times. They’ve got businesses signed onto place pages. They’ve got Frommer’s and Zagat. They’ve got a user-review system that’s popular and reliable. They’ve got travel information, navigation, points of interest, turn-by-turn directions...and it’s all free on their mobile platform. And they even have a crowd-sourcing option called Map Maker. And then you think about their data servers and their data organization prowess. Their ability to squeeze every bit of information from their collection process, organize it, and present it back to the world in a useful and lucrative manner.
The barrier to entry here is staggering. One does not simply walk into Mordor create a world map on the fly. It takes years and planning and vision. This is a massive moat, and the only thing Apple or any other competitors can do is to spend billions developing their own ground-truthing efforts or buying other mapping companies.
Actually, this would probably be a good time to own stock in the old telenav systems, because those companies are likely to be snatched up for their data sets by Google’s competitors.
This article sums everything up nicely: "iOS 6 is more about Apple than new user features"
http://www.imore.com/yes-ios-6-more-about-apple-new-user-features-thats-okay
Agree
Too many Apple apologists in our midst. Don't be afraid speak your mind. Jobs certainly didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
I hope that Apple builds up a network of 'scouts' around the world to fix these issues and keep Apple up-to-date with local information.
They are, it's called "users".
If there is a problem you know about you can report it.
I've already done a couple in my area.
Just like with Open Maps where I fixed a street name.
Originally Posted by hill60
Just like with Open Maps where I fixed a street name.
Now, wait, is Apple using Open Maps or Open Street Maps? They're different.
I think it's all just the cartographic implementation of Steve's reality distortion field.
The shame of it is that the rest of iOS6 is very very good.
Let's talk about why iOS6 is more about Apple than it's users.
Let's talk about why they keep releasing products that aren't finished.
Let's talk about why they have 100B in the bank and give money back to the shareholders, yet spend 1/3 of the money on R&D that Google and Microsoft do.
http://www.imore.com/yes-ios-6-more-about-apple-new-user-features-thats-okay
Why do any of us care about Google's bottom line? I sure as hell don't. I just want the features back that I had before.
Get off your high-horse. You'd just love to spin some kind of iHating propaganda to suit your iHating agenda.
I'm glad Apple jettisoned Google off the iPhone. Apple just removed millions of dollars and tracked-users from Google's bottom line. I'm using the new Maps feature, have you?? Sure it's not polished as Google's offerings but let's re-address this discussion a few months from now see how much crow you'll be eating.
The reality is that most people will happy with it and look forward to improvements. Sad people like you with nothing better to do will just find something else to whine about.
So get back to your mom's basement and stop pissing in everyone's pool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Cartography is a area of little interest to most people.
Just like antenna engineering around two years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr
NO. Let's talk about it NOW.
Let's talk about WHY iOS6 is more about Apple than it's users.
Let's talk about why they keep releasing products that aren't finished.
Let's talk about why they have 100B in the bank and give money back to the shareholders, yet spend 1/3 of the money on R&D that Google and Microsoft do.
http://www.imore.com/yes-ios-6-more-about-apple-new-user-features-thats-okay
Oh, how cute, a link.
So, let's talk about it. Why don't you start and run down the list of 200 new features and explain in detail why each of them is more about Apple than it's users.
Then, you can explain to us with your inside knowledge of Apple, hardware and software development, exactly what finished means and how you determine it.
Then, you can explain to us how the amount of money spent relates to the quality of R&D. Here's a hint for that last one: it doesn't.
So, go on, you wanted to, talk about it now. Frankly, I don't think you have a coherent comment to make. I think you're just here to bellow and vent your spleen. You could surprise me, though, although I very much doubt it.
Otherwise, you should probably follow the friendly advice of the previous poster, you know, before you end up looking like more of a fool.
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Cartography is a area of little interest to most people.
Gotta say, I love cartography. Specifically alternate history cartography.
Originally Posted by Waverunnr
Let's talk about why they have 100B in the bank and give money back to the shareholders, yet spend 1/3 of the money on R&D that Google and Microsoft do.
We'd have to pretend this matters first.
http://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/
And since they took features away, shouldn't that actually go against that number?
What does "finished" mean? It means releasing a product that has MORE features, not LESS than the previous version. It means releasing a product that actually works and isn't a buggy piece of crap
http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/
I'm not the one that looks like a fool here. It's Apple for sinking so incredibly low by putting their hatred of google ahead of the interests of its users.
Oh, how cute, a link.
So, let's talk about it. Why don't you start and run down the list of 200 new features and explain in detail why each of them is more about Apple than it's users.
Then, you can explain to us with your inside knowledge of Apple, hardware and software development, exactly what finished means and how you determine it.
Then, you can explain to us how the amount of money spent relates to the quality of R&D. Here's a hint for that last one: it doesn't.
So, go on, you wanted to, talk about it now. Frankly, I don't think you have a coherent comment to make. I think you're just here to bellow and vent your spleen. You could surprise me, though, although I very much doubt it.
Otherwise, you should probably follow the friendly advice of the previous poster, you know, before you end up looking like more of a fool.