This article will certainly calm down some of the more insane criticisms, but I find it disappointing overall. It's very long winded but at the same time misses a lot of detail in regards the app, how it works and the problems with it.
For instance one of the biggest things that bugs me in trying to use the new maps is that whereas in the previous version you could choose car/transit/walking directions at any time, in the new app, once presented with the route, you have to go back and re-search or re-route to get the directions for either of the two methods you didn't choose. It's done in such a way that a lot of people use the thing for a few days before they even find the walking/transit directions because it defaults to car directions only. I prefer being able to toggle transit/car/walking all the time and don't' actually always know ahead of time which I'm looking for.
Similarly the entire app over-focusses on cars and car directions. The road map signs for the directions look nice and all (skeuomorphism that no one will complain about), but they are simply ridiculous in the context of walking directions. It's arguable that they aren't even proper walking directions at all as they use car euphemisms, and those silly road signs in exactly the same way.
The lack of transit directions is a gigantic negative too and it will likely be years before there are apps to cover this particular hole. I feel the article kind of breezes through this section and really doesn't deal with the obvious problems using third parties for transit directions presents.
I know Daniel usually gets bad press for being some kind of Apple apologist but I think that's typically just BS from people who don't appreciate being bested in an argument. This time however, and with this article, I think there are valid reasons for that moniker.
This article is "positive" to the point of stretching the facts until they almost break. There is a lot wrong with the Maps app in terms of design, layout, and functionality. You only have to live outside one of the "big markets" to see it too.
Wow. EASILY the most rational, reasoned, objective, and indepth article about the subject I've read, which actually looks at the individual issues without resorting to cheap shots and vague sensationalism. This is why I visit this site. It looks at the issues from different angles and with different layers, nothing both the good, the bad, the root causes of the problems, and how things will improve. I challenge anyone who has actually read it fully to deny that it was actually educational.
I'm one of the people that has had absolutely Zero problems with the new maps, which actually gives more detailed, correct, and current data for where I'm living than Google ever did. I'm aware this isn't the case else-where, but to expect it to be, at launch, is absolutely absurd.
Apple severed ties with Google. THAT is what's wrong, and THAT is what had to happen anyway. Frankly, even though consumers will take a bit of a hit, I can see why Apple had a "the sooner, the better" attitude about it.
I'm pretty much over the whole iOS maps thing. It's now under Apple's control. For the rest of the Apple consumer population, the iPhone 5 running iOS 6 overall brings so much more to the table than maps. Which will fuel record sales for Apple. The Christmas quarter in particular, will be huge.
If maps were such a big deal, we wouldn't be seeing Apple post the kinds of early sales numbers they're posting. Which all told, could run in excess of 6 million.
The map cannot find my apartment. My address, in my address is 1845 1/8. When I delete the apartment number, it works. Does anyone else have this problem? I tried reporting to apple but have not heard back from them.
On my Navigon app I had a similar problem, which was very annoying to me. A workaround that seemed to work was moving the apartment/unit number to a separate address line.
in the previous version you could choose car/transit/walking directions at any time, in the new app, once presented with the route, you have to go back and re-search or re-route to get the directions for either of the two methods you didn't choose.
I found that to be one of the few "features" that has been reduced between the two apps. Despite that, and this is a big hit to the overall usability of Maps6 (my new name for it) I do think Apple's front end is overall better than their previous front end for Maps5.
I live in Tokyo so it was interesting to read the comments on the author's visit. Metro stations are really critical information to navigate this city quickly, so the absence of many stations at default magnification is a significant downgrade. Likewise the metro and railway lines only show up after significant zooming in yet these also matter a lot in getting around. Presumably these are rendering choices Apple can fix easily. I can't help but feel the default view came from a company based in a country where uniquely public transportation is a secondary thought.
all this talk of transit details and the HUGE problem with iOS6 maps. for the rest of the world the transit stuff never existed and to most of the iphone users I know the maps app sat buried in a folder with the calculator and stocks! its one small often largely unused, and certainly unimportant feature of ios. in every other release maps have never been mentioned good or bad, now all of a sudden it's THE most important feature of iOS, can we get some perspective on this issue.
I think the biggest source of grievance is because this is Apple and we expect better. Google are happy to throw garbage out the door before it's ready but we expect near perfection from Apple. Apple have been working on this for some time now and aren't short of money to throw at a problem so it should have been better than it is.
You honestly believe money is all it takes to magically make everything better? You think if Apple threw it's entire $120B bank account at this, it would make a difference? I have no doubt Apple is throwing as much resources at this as is required, they know how critical this software is and that it needs to get right. It's just something that makes a significant amount of time, needs feedback, sorting and categorizing hundreds of millions of data points and metrics, etc. We're talking about mapping the planet, and all the complexities involved, by combining hundreds of databases and data sets, any of which are outdated. There's no quick fix. I will take thousands and millions of manual fixes based on feedback. Not something you can just buy.
I found that to be one of the few "features" that has been reduced between the two apps. Despite that, and this is a big hit to the overall usability of Maps6 (my new name for it) I do think Apple's front end is overall better than their previous front end for Maps5.
To be honest, except for the frustrations I mentioned I think they have "laid an excellent foundation" as the saying goes and the app will make Google maps look like junk in a few years time. That doesn't help us now though. I'm just kind of personally offended by the over-emphasis on cars and on the USA, the stupid, stupid lack of transit directions, as well as some of the minor design choices as mentioned.
Apple just seems so sloppy nowadays. I know it's a forbidden phrase but ... Steve Jobs would never have approved even the icon for this maps app. Every single time I open my phone I see that "wrong" icon and it bothers me simply because I know it's wrong. I think Mr. Jobs would have felt similarly based on everything I have read.
I completely agree with Daniel that most of the silly data errors being pointed out around the web are a sort of red herring and that it isn't as bad as everyone seems to think, but I still think Mr. Jobs would be tearing several people a new one over what they released were he still around.
Today I used maps as always. I had problems both times. Zoom level is too high for detail needed...like major streets! I have to get too close to get street names. It loses the overview of where you are. Two finger pinching activates the direction of the map. I constantly have to hit the compass needle to straighten the map. There is no information for surface streets regarding traffic. And red hash marks on the highways are insufficient to really get any idea of traffic flow. It doesn't live up in practical use. A huge downgrade.
What if Apple offered an. iTunes store credit of, say, $10 for anyone submitting a panoramic street view of their home location -- Taken with the camera app on iPhone 4S and iPhone 5?f
I think the biggest source of grievance is because this is Apple and we expect better. Google are happy to throw garbage out the door before it's ready but we expect near perfection from Apple. Apple have been working on this for some time now and aren't short of money to throw at a problem so it should have been better than it is.
I think so too. It's smells like there was some internal pressure to get this out regardless of it's state of readiness. I personally don't find the problems upsetting, but I rarely use the Maps App. I can see how frequent users would be disturbed by the changes and flaws etc.
BTW I found an error the first time I used the new maps. I work in the Littlefield building in Austin. The pin marked it as the Littlefield Parking Garage which is a block away. I had learned about the "Report a Problem" feature reading AI and used it. I moved the pin to the correct location and sent it to Apple. Seems a good feature.
Today I used maps as always. I had problems both times. Zoom level is too high for detail needed...like major streets! I have to get too close to get street names. It loses the overview of where you are. Two finger pinching activates the direction of the map. I constantly have to hit the compass needle to straighten the map. There is no information for surface streets regarding traffic. And red hash marks on the highways are insufficient to really get any idea of traffic flow. It doesn't live up in practical use. A huge downgrade.
I think the zoom-level vs level-of-detail issue can be easily addressed in the iOS 6 maps app. Apple could provide an optional slider where you could raise or lower the level of detail in any given zoom level.
I did some experimenting and in many cases this can be done without any additional communication with the server.
Edit: The dynamic, optional layers of detail is exactly the kind of interface that the PlaceBase mapping service provided with the pushpin API. PlaceBase is one of the mapping companies bought by Apple.
People (as in the press) seem to absolutely forget that even Google Maps had its problems when it came out. You can't build something so extensive without time and user input and it annoys me when I hear people calling Apple Maps an alpha or beta product.
absolutely and utterly irrelevant. AS irrelevant as those calling for leniency on WP7 because iphone 1 was not perfect out of the box.
Apple are not competing with google maps 1.0 (or 0.7 as hte case may be)
They are competing with google maps now, and in going to their underdeveloped database, they have provided their customers a lower quality product. Sure, some time in the future, it may be a magical experience, up to the level we expect from apple. But hopes and wishes aside...
Your credibility was gone at "Curiously, it seems to be the "free and open" advocates who are grumbling about this change."
I'm not a free and open advocate. I couldn't really care less about open source or closed source. What I'm interested in is something that works well and is intuitive - that's what made me switch to Apple from Windows in the first place. As it stands at the moment, even when you have an app that provides relevant Transit directions, it's not nearly as intuitive as the transit directions were in the previous app.
Why do you have such a need to defend a major corporation as if it was a member of your family? As of right now, the transit directions are a major step back from iOS 5. I hope (and expect) it will get better, but that doesn't change the fact that as of now, it's not as good.
Why do you have such a need to defend a major corporation as if it was a member of your family? As of right now, the transit directions are a major step back from iOS 5. I hope (and expect) it will get better, but that doesn't change the fact that as of now, it's not as good.
My town has no transit directions for anything anyway, but last week I was in a major city. I had both google maps, and the cities transit app. Google was better.
But its not the USA, which is Apples home, rather than outside of USA, which where apples major markets are.
Comments
For instance one of the biggest things that bugs me in trying to use the new maps is that whereas in the previous version you could choose car/transit/walking directions at any time, in the new app, once presented with the route, you have to go back and re-search or re-route to get the directions for either of the two methods you didn't choose. It's done in such a way that a lot of people use the thing for a few days before they even find the walking/transit directions because it defaults to car directions only. I prefer being able to toggle transit/car/walking all the time and don't' actually always know ahead of time which I'm looking for.
Similarly the entire app over-focusses on cars and car directions. The road map signs for the directions look nice and all (skeuomorphism that no one will complain about), but they are simply ridiculous in the context of walking directions. It's arguable that they aren't even proper walking directions at all as they use car euphemisms, and those silly road signs in exactly the same way.
The lack of transit directions is a gigantic negative too and it will likely be years before there are apps to cover this particular hole. I feel the article kind of breezes through this section and really doesn't deal with the obvious problems using third parties for transit directions presents.
I know Daniel usually gets bad press for being some kind of Apple apologist but I think that's typically just BS from people who don't appreciate being bested in an argument. This time however, and with this article, I think there are valid reasons for that moniker.
This article is "positive" to the point of stretching the facts until they almost break. There is a lot wrong with the Maps app in terms of design, layout, and functionality. You only have to live outside one of the "big markets" to see it too.
Wow. EASILY the most rational, reasoned, objective, and indepth article about the subject I've read, which actually looks at the individual issues without resorting to cheap shots and vague sensationalism. This is why I visit this site. It looks at the issues from different angles and with different layers, nothing both the good, the bad, the root causes of the problems, and how things will improve. I challenge anyone who has actually read it fully to deny that it was actually educational.
I'm one of the people that has had absolutely Zero problems with the new maps, which actually gives more detailed, correct, and current data for where I'm living than Google ever did. I'm aware this isn't the case else-where, but to expect it to be, at launch, is absolutely absurd.
Apple severed ties with Google. THAT is what's wrong, and THAT is what had to happen anyway. Frankly, even though consumers will take a bit of a hit, I can see why Apple had a "the sooner, the better" attitude about it.
I'm pretty much over the whole iOS maps thing. It's now under Apple's control. For the rest of the Apple consumer population, the iPhone 5 running iOS 6 overall brings so much more to the table than maps. Which will fuel record sales for Apple. The Christmas quarter in particular, will be huge.
If maps were such a big deal, we wouldn't be seeing Apple post the kinds of early sales numbers they're posting. Which all told, could run in excess of 6 million.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dselevan
The map cannot find my apartment. My address, in my address is 1845 1/8. When I delete the apartment number, it works. Does anyone else have this problem? I tried reporting to apple but have not heard back from them.
On my Navigon app I had a similar problem, which was very annoying to me. A workaround that seemed to work was moving the apartment/unit number to a separate address line.
and the stock is down..
some of you must be so happy, another buying chance. unfortunately i do not have the necessary money.
I found that to be one of the few "features" that has been reduced between the two apps. Despite that, and this is a big hit to the overall usability of Maps6 (my new name for it) I do think Apple's front end is overall better than their previous front end for Maps5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdb
I think the biggest source of grievance is because this is Apple and we expect better. Google are happy to throw garbage out the door before it's ready but we expect near perfection from Apple. Apple have been working on this for some time now and aren't short of money to throw at a problem so it should have been better than it is.
You honestly believe money is all it takes to magically make everything better? You think if Apple threw it's entire $120B bank account at this, it would make a difference? I have no doubt Apple is throwing as much resources at this as is required, they know how critical this software is and that it needs to get right. It's just something that makes a significant amount of time, needs feedback, sorting and categorizing hundreds of millions of data points and metrics, etc. We're talking about mapping the planet, and all the complexities involved, by combining hundreds of databases and data sets, any of which are outdated. There's no quick fix. I will take thousands and millions of manual fixes based on feedback. Not something you can just buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I found that to be one of the few "features" that has been reduced between the two apps. Despite that, and this is a big hit to the overall usability of Maps6 (my new name for it) I do think Apple's front end is overall better than their previous front end for Maps5.
To be honest, except for the frustrations I mentioned I think they have "laid an excellent foundation" as the saying goes and the app will make Google maps look like junk in a few years time. That doesn't help us now though. I'm just kind of personally offended by the over-emphasis on cars and on the USA, the stupid, stupid lack of transit directions, as well as some of the minor design choices as mentioned.
Apple just seems so sloppy nowadays. I know it's a forbidden phrase but ... Steve Jobs would never have approved even the icon for this maps app. Every single time I open my phone I see that "wrong" icon and it bothers me simply because I know it's wrong. I think Mr. Jobs would have felt similarly based on everything I have read.
I completely agree with Daniel that most of the silly data errors being pointed out around the web are a sort of red herring and that it isn't as bad as everyone seems to think, but I still think Mr. Jobs would be tearing several people a new one over what they released were he still around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Google Maps app is [sic] iOS 5 was better.
You're complaining about errors in Apple's massive undertaking... and you can't even get an eight-word sentence grammatically correct? (grin)
Today I used maps as always. I had problems both times. Zoom level is too high for detail needed...like major streets! I have to get too close to get street names. It loses the overview of where you are. Two finger pinching activates the direction of the map. I constantly have to hit the compass needle to straighten the map. There is no information for surface streets regarding traffic. And red hash marks on the highways are insufficient to really get any idea of traffic flow. It doesn't live up in practical use. A huge downgrade.
What if Apple offered an. iTunes store credit of, say, $10 for anyone submitting a panoramic street view of their home location -- Taken with the camera app on iPhone 4S and iPhone 5?f
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdb
I think the biggest source of grievance is because this is Apple and we expect better. Google are happy to throw garbage out the door before it's ready but we expect near perfection from Apple. Apple have been working on this for some time now and aren't short of money to throw at a problem so it should have been better than it is.
I think so too. It's smells like there was some internal pressure to get this out regardless of it's state of readiness. I personally don't find the problems upsetting, but I rarely use the Maps App. I can see how frequent users would be disturbed by the changes and flaws etc.
BTW I found an error the first time I used the new maps. I work in the Littlefield building in Austin. The pin marked it as the Littlefield Parking Garage which is a block away. I had learned about the "Report a Problem" feature reading AI and used it. I moved the pin to the correct location and sent it to Apple. Seems a good feature.
I think the zoom-level vs level-of-detail issue can be easily addressed in the iOS 6 maps app. Apple could provide an optional slider where you could raise or lower the level of detail in any given zoom level.
I did some experimenting and in many cases this can be done without any additional communication with the server.
Edit: The dynamic, optional layers of detail is exactly the kind of interface that the PlaceBase mapping service provided with the pushpin API. PlaceBase is one of the mapping companies bought by Apple.
The UK is just remote islands?
Everyone knows that DED is a hack, but insulting 60 million people is a new low.
Pathetic, brown-nosing, apologist article. And I don't even have a major problem with iOS maps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokrad
People (as in the press) seem to absolutely forget that even Google Maps had its problems when it came out. You can't build something so extensive without time and user input and it annoys me when I hear people calling Apple Maps an alpha or beta product.
absolutely and utterly irrelevant. AS irrelevant as those calling for leniency on WP7 because iphone 1 was not perfect out of the box.
Apple are not competing with google maps 1.0 (or 0.7 as hte case may be)
They are competing with google maps now, and in going to their underdeveloped database, they have provided their customers a lower quality product. Sure, some time in the future, it may be a magical experience, up to the level we expect from apple. But hopes and wishes aside...
Your credibility was gone at "Curiously, it seems to be the "free and open" advocates who are grumbling about this change."
I'm not a free and open advocate. I couldn't really care less about open source or closed source. What I'm interested in is something that works well and is intuitive - that's what made me switch to Apple from Windows in the first place. As it stands at the moment, even when you have an app that provides relevant Transit directions, it's not nearly as intuitive as the transit directions were in the previous app.
Why do you have such a need to defend a major corporation as if it was a member of your family? As of right now, the transit directions are a major step back from iOS 5. I hope (and expect) it will get better, but that doesn't change the fact that as of now, it's not as good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson
Why do you have such a need to defend a major corporation as if it was a member of your family? As of right now, the transit directions are a major step back from iOS 5. I hope (and expect) it will get better, but that doesn't change the fact that as of now, it's not as good.
My town has no transit directions for anything anyway, but last week I was in a major city. I had both google maps, and the cities transit app. Google was better.
But its not the USA, which is Apples home, rather than outside of USA, which where apples major markets are.