"Workers complained the set of rules was too stringent and could not be met without proper training, however Foxconn management allegedly ignored the objections and in some cases were reportedly beaten."
It's the PAINT chipping. Not the actual materials.
The real problem is indeed a design one. but not in terms of the core industrial design itself.
I'd wager that almost all "scuffed" iPhones are the black models.
The reason is a simple one. the metal is PAINTED.
And that is a rather horrible way to dress it up.
In fact, you could argue that the phone would even look better with the bare metal showing through.
At the least, they could have used a better coating.
I do feel for the Foxconn workers. They slave away trying to earn a living, being trained for one contract, then retrained for another, and again and again.
In fact, these folks building the iPhone ARE the same people building the junky Android stuff. But Apple requires more (as they should) quality and care. However, the Foxconn management needs to agree to better training for their workers. that seems to be what was requested. and that seems reasonable.
People can only take so much.
Hopefully, the iPhone 5s or iPhone 6 goes back to native material appearance. It has been a hallmark of Apple for a long time.
Painting metal is just sad. I wonder who conned Ive into having it done.
Painted? LOL ... the sadness here is that you actually believe dumb blogs claiming that this is about paint chipping.
Anodized aluminum can be chipped so as expose the unanodized layer, just as plastic can be scratched. If you are going to yell from a soapbox, at least try to inform yourself first.
Actually, I probably mislead people when I brought up anodization. I wasn't thinking of the white iPhone (the black one is the only one I've seen and I forgot about the white ones.) Many colors can be anodized, or anodized and dyed. But for pure white they probably need to finish the anodization with a topcoat of white paint and a clear sealer (but I haven't seen it.) The black iPhones appear to be black anodized and sealed (I have seen one of these.)
Whatever the case, I personally am not impressed with the decision to produce anodized aluminum phones.
Quote:
You're still misleading people. There is nothing wrong with producing phones with anodized aluminum. Did you shout from your soapbox when the first iPhone sported aluminum? Are you impressed with plastic phones that scratch easily?
The white iPhone does not sport white aluminum. Please inform yourself before misleading people.
I have lots of anodized items around the house and they don't scratch anywhere NEAR as easily as an iP5. Either the anodizing process is inferior or the underlying material is too soft.
It doesn't matter to me since I have never worried about tools I use every day getting scratched (and I laugh a little every time someone says "Mine is in a case so the surface is pristine -- you can't SEE it, but trust me, if I ever want to take it out of the case and look at it, the finish will be perfect!"), but I was surprised to see how easily surface damage is inflicted.
Do tell, how easily can surface damage is inflicted. Show us your findings. A few photos on the internet is not proof that it can be scuffed easily. Or are you just shooting your mouth off because it is a trending topic?
I'm amazed at how many people have become experts in manufacturing and anodized aluminum in the past month. Apple designers and engineers get paid big bucks to do this for a living yet the armchair critics on the Internet know better...
Do tell, how easily can surface damage is inflicted. Show us your findings. A few photos on the internet is not proof that it can be scuffed easily. Or are you just shooting your mouth off because it is a trending topic?
I'm sorry, I don't believe we've been introduced... my name is Lorin. I'm an Audio Engineer in Vancouver. And you are? And you think it's okay to be rude and insulting to me because...
Sorry for the violation of protocol. I didn't realize one was required to post documentation of detailed analysis in order for observations to be deemed valid. I'm afraid my conclusions are based on purely anecdotal evidence. Like watching my co-worker pull it out of the pocket in which he also had a few coins, and seeing the light damage they had done to the back of the phone (it was in a bumper). I used to throw an anodized aluminum interface device into a case with all kinds of hard metal objects, and while it did eventually get kind of scratched up, it took years of bashing it around, not a few minutes in a pocket with rounded objects, and the scratches never exposed bare metal.
I also saw a young lady picking at the edge of her 5 with her fingernails, where a very obvious silver area had become exposed. I asked if she'd dropped it and she answered "I don't know WHAT I did... I'm really careful with it."
Then there's the admittedly unscientific but trustworthy and telling findings of iFixit, whose opinions I have come to trust over the years as my own experience has been consistent with theirs.
So anyway, you're right. I have no business offering an opinion, and certainly not one that suggests anything other than Divine Perfection on the part of Apple, Inc.
I'm amazed at how many people have become experts in manufacturing and anodized aluminum in the past month. Apple designers and engineers get paid big bucks to do this for a living yet the armchair critics on the Internet know better...
I don't think anyone is claiming to be an expert. What we're saying is that other, similar devices are not as susceptible to surface damage. Like my iPhone 4 as an example of an alternative design, or my anodized aluminum DI box as an example of similar yet more robust technology. Just observation, not arrogance.
Apple does great work and I like (and buy) many of their products. They're not infallible though. Even the Mighty Supertino from Cupertino occasionally achieves outcomes slightly short of perfection. If you never acknowledge areas that can be improved, there will never be any improvement.
I don't think anyone is claiming to be an expert. What we're saying is that other, similar devices are not as susceptible to surface damage. Like my iPhone 4 as an example of an alternative design, or my anodized aluminum DI box as an example of similar yet more robust technology. Just observation, not arrogance.
Apple does great work and I like (and buy) many of their products. They're not infallible though. Even the Mighty Supertino from Cupertino occasionally achieves outcomes slightly short of perfection. If you never acknowledge areas that can be improved, there will never be any improvement.
On the other hand, I've always found anodized aluminum to be scratch-prone. It would be interesting to hear from someone or find info on whether there are degrees of scratch resistance to different types of anodizing, whether the underlying aluminum and its hardness could be a factor, and so on. I can't imagine Ive going for an inferior plating or base metal, so whatever we have there must be a reason for it. Ductility? Machinability?
To which holidays is the article referring? Chinese people don't celebrate Thanksgiving or Christmas to the extent they are in the West, nor are they public holidays. This makes me doubt the validity of the article in general.
If you're going to post on here try to get yourself a good education first! So you think the whole world has the same holidays we do? In China, the entire country has been on a one week holiday celebrating National Day, the anniversary of the founding of "modern" China.
Amazing the number of commenters that post to these articles on China labor that have absolutely no clue as to the culture, economy or society on which they are commenting. Especially those that speak of low wages and "slave labor". These are very desirable higher than average paying jobs in modern clean well lit factories. Significantly better conditions than most Chinese factories. Are they hard jobs? Sure, but they are factory jobs, something we don't know much about anymore. These are young workers from mostly poor rural areas that go there to work for only two or three years to make as much money as they can before returning home. Not only do they earn enough to save for their own future, but also send money home to support their families.
Sure is a lot of news coming out a out the iPhone 5, and foxconn. Almost seems like some of this is planted, or taken a bit too seriously. One thing I notice, is rarely do they mention all the other brands that are produced in those plants.
One thing I notice, is rarely do they mention all the other brands that are produced in those plants.
"What other brands? "Foxconn" is just Chinese for "Apple". All these slaves are Apple's slaves. It's Apple that makes them work 90 hour days for three cents per day. No other company would ever do this."
Hmm… I sort of want to incorporate "'Foxconn' is Chinese for 'Apple'" into The List, but I don't know how (if) the existing ones can be reworded, and it's not as clear as they are standalone.
I'm on my second iPhone 5 already, and putting to one side the issue with Apple Maps:
My first phone:
Had a small scratch as per the picture Had a loose screen in one corner Was easily scratched further by just putting it in my pocket with a coin
My second phone:
Also arrived with a scratch as per the picture Rattles slightly in the corner where the headphone jack is when shaken
Both seem to drain battery like its going out of fashion. Heavy use of the phone can see it disappear in just 3 hours.
Really this case design is shocking and sore on the thumbs fingers if you hold it like me... I was going to buy a couple of iMacs for my business (when the new range comes out) and possibly a couple of iPad mini for the kids... I think I'll have to wait and see.... This will probably be my last iPhone
I'm on my second iPhone 5 already, and putting to one side the issue with Apple Maps:
My first phone:
Had a small scratch as per the picture
Had a loose screen in one corner
Was easily scratched further by just putting it in my pocket with a coin
My second phone:
Also arrived with a scratch as per the picture
Rattles slightly in the corner where the headphone jack is when shaken
Both seem to drain battery like its going out of fashion. Heavy use of the phone can see it disappear in just 3 hours.
Really this case design is shocking and sore on the thumbs fingers if you hold it like me... I was going to buy a couple of iMacs for my business (when the new range comes out) and possibly a couple of iPad mini for the kids... I think I'll have to wait and see.... This will probably be my last iPhone
A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user claims to hold. The concern troll posts in Web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.
Yes you're right... holding it with my foot is far less painful, and using with my head in the refrigerator has added 10% to the battery life... Life could not be better.
Historically I love Apple product, and manage the purchase of $1.6m per year of their kit on behalf of my organisation. It's just a year after the passing of Steve Jobs what do they have to show for their efforts.... a substandard iPhone with Apple Maps, a thinner laptop with a slightly improved display, and some odd looking ipod nanos. Now I await being slated for speaking my mind......
If your hand is being hurt by the phone it is holding, you're holding it wrong. I don't see how this could be disagreed with.
Or:
If his hand is being hurt by the phone it is holding, he's holding the wrong phone.
Since no two hands or bearers of same are exactly alike, and the variation is broad, it is unreasonable to assume that one device will be a good match for all of them. Obviously SOME musculo-skeletal layouts are going to be less comfortable with any given design than others.
That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the phone, just that it's not a good match for that particular individual.
Comments
How do you beat an objection?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko
It's the PAINT chipping. Not the actual materials.
The real problem is indeed a design one. but not in terms of the core industrial design itself.
I'd wager that almost all "scuffed" iPhones are the black models.
The reason is a simple one. the metal is PAINTED.
And that is a rather horrible way to dress it up.
In fact, you could argue that the phone would even look better with the bare metal showing through.
At the least, they could have used a better coating.
I do feel for the Foxconn workers. They slave away trying to earn a living, being trained for one contract, then retrained for another, and again and again.
In fact, these folks building the iPhone ARE the same people building the junky Android stuff. But Apple requires more (as they should) quality and care. However, the Foxconn management needs to agree to better training for their workers. that seems to be what was requested. and that seems reasonable.
People can only take so much.
Hopefully, the iPhone 5s or iPhone 6 goes back to native material appearance. It has been a hallmark of Apple for a long time.
Painting metal is just sad. I wonder who conned Ive into having it done.
Painted? LOL ... the sadness here is that you actually believe dumb blogs claiming that this is about paint chipping.
Anodized aluminum can be chipped so as expose the unanodized layer, just as plastic can be scratched. If you are going to yell from a soapbox, at least try to inform yourself first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN
Actually, I probably mislead people when I brought up anodization. I wasn't thinking of the white iPhone (the black one is the only one I've seen and I forgot about the white ones.) Many colors can be anodized, or anodized and dyed. But for pure white they probably need to finish the anodization with a topcoat of white paint and a clear sealer (but I haven't seen it.) The black iPhones appear to be black anodized and sealed (I have seen one of these.)
Whatever the case, I personally am not impressed with the decision to produce anodized aluminum phones.
Quote:
You're still misleading people. There is nothing wrong with producing phones with anodized aluminum. Did you shout from your soapbox when the first iPhone sported aluminum? Are you impressed with plastic phones that scratch easily?
The white iPhone does not sport white aluminum. Please inform yourself before misleading people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
I have lots of anodized items around the house and they don't scratch anywhere NEAR as easily as an iP5. Either the anodizing process is inferior or the underlying material is too soft.
It doesn't matter to me since I have never worried about tools I use every day getting scratched (and I laugh a little every time someone says "Mine is in a case so the surface is pristine -- you can't SEE it, but trust me, if I ever want to take it out of the case and look at it, the finish will be perfect!"), but I was surprised to see how easily surface damage is inflicted.
Do tell, how easily can surface damage is inflicted. Show us your findings. A few photos on the internet is not proof that it can be scuffed easily. Or are you just shooting your mouth off because it is a trending topic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
Do tell, how easily can surface damage is inflicted. Show us your findings. A few photos on the internet is not proof that it can be scuffed easily. Or are you just shooting your mouth off because it is a trending topic?
I'm sorry, I don't believe we've been introduced... my name is Lorin. I'm an Audio Engineer in Vancouver. And you are? And you think it's okay to be rude and insulting to me because...
Sorry for the violation of protocol. I didn't realize one was required to post documentation of detailed analysis in order for observations to be deemed valid. I'm afraid my conclusions are based on purely anecdotal evidence. Like watching my co-worker pull it out of the pocket in which he also had a few coins, and seeing the light damage they had done to the back of the phone (it was in a bumper). I used to throw an anodized aluminum interface device into a case with all kinds of hard metal objects, and while it did eventually get kind of scratched up, it took years of bashing it around, not a few minutes in a pocket with rounded objects, and the scratches never exposed bare metal.
I also saw a young lady picking at the edge of her 5 with her fingernails, where a very obvious silver area had become exposed. I asked if she'd dropped it and she answered "I don't know WHAT I did... I'm really careful with it."
Then there's the admittedly unscientific but trustworthy and telling findings of iFixit, whose opinions I have come to trust over the years as my own experience has been consistent with theirs.
So anyway, you're right. I have no business offering an opinion, and certainly not one that suggests anything other than Divine Perfection on the part of Apple, Inc.
Sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I'm amazed at how many people have become experts in manufacturing and anodized aluminum in the past month. Apple designers and engineers get paid big bucks to do this for a living yet the armchair critics on the Internet know better...
I don't think anyone is claiming to be an expert. What we're saying is that other, similar devices are not as susceptible to surface damage. Like my iPhone 4 as an example of an alternative design, or my anodized aluminum DI box as an example of similar yet more robust technology. Just observation, not arrogance.
Apple does great work and I like (and buy) many of their products. They're not infallible though. Even the Mighty Supertino from Cupertino occasionally achieves outcomes slightly short of perfection. If you never acknowledge areas that can be improved, there will never be any improvement.
On the other hand, I've always found anodized aluminum to be scratch-prone. It would be interesting to hear from someone or find info on whether there are degrees of scratch resistance to different types of anodizing, whether the underlying aluminum and its hardness could be a factor, and so on. I can't imagine Ive going for an inferior plating or base metal, so whatever we have there must be a reason for it. Ductility? Machinability?
If you're going to post on here try to get yourself a good education first! So you think the whole world has the same holidays we do? In China, the entire country has been on a one week holiday celebrating National Day, the anniversary of the founding of "modern" China.
Amazing the number of commenters that post to these articles on China labor that have absolutely no clue as to the culture, economy or society on which they are commenting. Especially those that speak of low wages and "slave labor". These are very desirable higher than average paying jobs in modern clean well lit factories. Significantly better conditions than most Chinese factories. Are they hard jobs? Sure, but they are factory jobs, something we don't know much about anymore. These are young workers from mostly poor rural areas that go there to work for only two or three years to make as much money as they can before returning home. Not only do they earn enough to save for their own future, but also send money home to support their families.
Originally Posted by rkevwill
One thing I notice, is rarely do they mention all the other brands that are produced in those plants.
"What other brands? "Foxconn" is just Chinese for "Apple". All these slaves are Apple's slaves. It's Apple that makes them work 90 hour days for three cents per day. No other company would ever do this."
Hmm… I sort of want to incorporate "'Foxconn' is Chinese for 'Apple'" into The List, but I don't know how (if) the existing ones can be reworded, and it's not as clear as they are standalone.
My first phone:
Had a small scratch as per the picture
Had a loose screen in one corner
Was easily scratched further by just putting it in my pocket with a coin
My second phone:
Also arrived with a scratch as per the picture
Rattles slightly in the corner where the headphone jack is when shaken
Both seem to drain battery like its going out of fashion. Heavy use of the phone can see it disappear in just 3 hours.
Really this case design is shocking and sore on the thumbs fingers if you hold it like me... I was going to buy a couple of iMacs for my business (when the new range comes out) and possibly a couple of iPad mini for the kids... I think I'll have to wait and see.... This will probably be my last iPhone
nobody's perfect... even apple
Originally Posted by OrtonLong
Both seem to drain battery like its going out of fashion. Heavy use of the phone can see it disappear in just 3 hours.
http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html
Really this case design is shocking and sore on the thumbs fingers if you hold it like me...
So don't hold it like that.
Death threat removed. Not infracted. You're welcome, don't do it again.
And your reasons for "being the last" are nonsensical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrtonLong
I'm on my second iPhone 5 already, and putting to one side the issue with Apple Maps:
My first phone:
Had a small scratch as per the picture
Had a loose screen in one corner
Was easily scratched further by just putting it in my pocket with a coin
My second phone:
Also arrived with a scratch as per the picture
Rattles slightly in the corner where the headphone jack is when shaken
Both seem to drain battery like its going out of fashion. Heavy use of the phone can see it disappear in just 3 hours.
Really this case design is shocking and sore on the thumbs fingers if you hold it like me... I was going to buy a couple of iMacs for my business (when the new range comes out) and possibly a couple of iPad mini for the kids... I think I'll have to wait and see.... This will probably be my last iPhone
From Wikipedia:
Quote:
A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user claims to hold. The concern troll posts in Web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.
Just realized .... we never have the opening tag!
Yes you're right... holding it with my foot is far less painful, and using with my head in the refrigerator has added 10% to the battery life... Life could not be better.
Historically I love Apple product, and manage the purchase of $1.6m per year of their kit on behalf of my organisation. It's just a year after the passing of Steve Jobs what do they have to show for their efforts.... a substandard iPhone with Apple Maps, a thinner laptop with a slightly improved display, and some odd looking ipod nanos. Now I await being slated for speaking my mind......
Originally Posted by OrtonLong
Yes you're right... holding it with my foot is far less painful
If your hand is being hurt by the phone it is holding, you're holding it wrong. I don't see how this could be disagreed with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
If your hand is being hurt by the phone it is holding, you're holding it wrong. I don't see how this could be disagreed with.
Or:
If his hand is being hurt by the phone it is holding, he's holding the wrong phone.
Since no two hands or bearers of same are exactly alike, and the variation is broad, it is unreasonable to assume that one device will be a good match for all of them. Obviously SOME musculo-skeletal layouts are going to be less comfortable with any given design than others.
That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the phone, just that it's not a good match for that particular individual.
Perhaps I'm holding it too much. Perhaps I'm holding the wrong phone and need to be holding a different one. Had no issue with the iPhone 4/4S.