But they are not MADE to do it in the same respect that Microsoft is/was. They should be.
Originally Posted by jragosta
Google never saw a piece of intellectual property that they didn't want to steal - except their own, of course. Heaven help anyone who tries to copy from Google.
Not to fall off-topic, but it sounds a little like Disney. You know, taking public domain stories (software), writing their own versions (Android), and disallowing attempts at using said original material again…
But they are not MADE to do it in the same respect that Microsoft is/was. They should be.
What is your justification for this claim? Users on iOS aren't forced to choose a search engine? Users on desktop OSes aren't either (again, aside from Windows in the EU).
What is your justification for this claim? Users on iOS aren't forced to choose a search engine? Users on desktop OSes aren't either (again, aside from Windows in the EU).
The monopolistic nature of it.
Again, it's left to be decided yet, but you cannot claim that what Microsoft has been forced to do and what Google is offering up are the same, because they're not, and it doest have anything to do with the existence or lack thereof of a lawsuit.
You can change your search engine in both the stock Android browser and in Chrome for Android. You can also change to a different browser entirely, as well as changing your default mapping app, email app, phone dialer, text messaging app, speech synthesizer, soft keyboard, etc. In fact, you can release Android builds that don't use any Google services at all, as Amazon and Baidu are doing.
Maybe Motorola should not have been so hasty in attacking Apple and Microsoft, forcing them to defend themselves, although along with threats to attack other Android OEM's it did force Google into paying through the nose for them.
Again, it's left to be decided yet, but you cannot claim that what Microsoft has been forced to do and what Google is offering up are the same, because they're not, and it doest have anything to do with the existence or lack thereof of a lawsuit.
Google is not a monopoly. I never claimed that Microsoft's obnoxious browser selection screen had an analogue on Android. I was responding to a claim that Android users should be able to change their default browser and search engine. They can. And you don't need an in-your-face popup to make it happen. But more to the point, it's hard to see how one could declare Google a monopoly, since users can rip out and replace most Android OS components if they so choose.
Maybe Motorola should not have been so hasty in attacking Apple and Microsoft, forcing them to defend themselves, although along with threats to attack other Android OEM's it did force Google into paying through the nose for them.
This issue has been beaten to death. Acer voluntarily agreed not to ship incompatible variants of Android when they joined the OHA in 2009. If Acer wants to renege on that contract, they're free to leave the OHA and ship any software they wish. Or, Alibaba could do the responsible thing and fix Aliyun's incompatibilities.
But, frankly, your comment has nothing to do with my point. Do you have proof that a user can't install a third-party browser on Aliyun, or that they can't change the soft keyboard?
A lot of companies that were previously using Google Maps have jumped ship. Nothing to do with this lawsuit, had to do with Google changing their licensing terms. Apple's main interest in dumping Google Maps had more to do with Google's unwillingness to allow 3rd parties access to vector based maps and turn-by-turn navigation, giving Android an advantage over competing platforms. It seems like a rather stupid move given the amount of user data that can be obtained through map based searches. Google almost instantly lost billions of search results from iOS users.
Google's #1 position in digital mapping is a clear demonstration of how you use a monopoly position in one area to make gains in another. MapQuest was for a long time was the "go to" mapping site. After Google search took off, Google naturally had an interest in "knowing" where people were going and what they were interested in. So they quickly bought up dozens of mapping companies. And their maps became the default when people searched for locations through Google's search engine.
Finally someone with a brain lol.. Its actually scary that the tech press ISN'T examining the effect that Apple basically DUMPED TWO GOOGLE mine field apps - it's Maps AND YouTube. Clearly this is a big blow to Google - a temporary effect on Apple, a permanent effect on Google..Thats the bigger story......
Apple and Microsoft seem to have extensive technology sharing agreements, so this issue between MS and Googie might have been moot even if Apple stayed with Googie Maps.
This issue has been beaten to death. Acer voluntarily agreed not to ship incompatible variants of Android when they joined the OHA in 2009. If Acer wants to renege on that contract, they're free to leave the OHA and ship any software they wish. Or, Alibaba could do the responsible thing and fix Aliyun's incompatibilities.
But, frankly, your comment has nothing to do with my point. Do you have proof that a user can't install a third-party browser on Aliyun, or that they can't change the soft keyboard?
Are you uncomfortable with Google's iron fist?
Control, iron fisted control, force the recalcitrants to toe the line, the Google way, crush the opposition out of existence, just ask Skyhook.
Remember the maps debacle of the Galaxy S when Google marched in in their jackboots and forced Samsung to remove Skyhook from their phones, that little episode was far worse than anything with iOS 6 maps, at least Apple devices know where they are.
Control, iron fisted control, force the recalcitrants to toe the line, the Google way, crush the opposition out of existence, just ask Skyhook.
Remember the maps debacle of the Galaxy S when Google marched in in their jackboots and forced Samsung to remove Skyhook from their phones, that little episode was far worse than anything with iOS 6 maps, at least Apple devices know where they are.
What iron fist would that be? The iron fist that released an operating system under an open-source license which lets their competitors (e.g. Amazon, Baidu) build good products? The iron fist that paid a competitor nearly a billion dollars to develop Firefox, including a version that can be installed and made default on Android?
Again, if you just want Android without restrictions, just checkout the AOSP source and build away. But if you voluntarily join the OHA, then you can't cry foul later.
Control, iron fisted control, force the recalcitrants to toe the line, the Google way, crush the opposition out of existence, just ask Skyhook.
Remember the maps debacle of the Galaxy S when Google marched in in their jackboots and forced Samsung to remove Skyhook from their phones, that little episode was far worse than anything with iOS 6 maps, at least Apple devices know where they are.
Hill, I'm certain you're very aware that some "official" Android phones even shipped with Bing preinstalled. The Google issue with Acer had nothing to do with Google services or even Google anything. It came about because Acer can't support and contribute to Android while at the same time contributing and supporting efforts to introduce incompatible forks of it to make it less relevant. That's what they agreed with to become a licensee, and quite honestly I'm pretty darned surprised if you think it doesn't make sense.
Its sad to see people cheer the demise of a great product based on a patent granted in 1995 that explains basic mapping technology.
"Down to google maps, because I love Apple"
What's really confusing is why Microsoft didn't try to exercise its maps patent before... before it was sued by Google's Motorola over H.264 standards essential patents with the demand that Microsoft pay huge royalties or stop selling Xbox and Windows. Oh wait, that probably had something to do with it.
It's so hard to remember Google's position, how do you droidfans keep up? Not long ago, you were cheerleading when Google was saying that H.264 was dangerous because Apple and Microsoft held patents and that implementing it required a cheap FRAND license. Now Google is attacking Apple and Microsoft over the very thing it vilified, even though neither Apple nor Microsoft ever sued anyone over H.264 patents the way Google was happy to do as soon as it got the opportunity. But I guess that's the dirty work you have to do when you are tasked with "protecting" Android from the consequences of infringement.
We will have the last laugh as Apple insulates us from Google's Iron Fisting, whilst droids just feed the giant lying maw that is "open" and "free".
Idealists believing blindly in a company with no ethics. Laughable.
Google apologists are so strange. If you've invested time and money into a company's tangible product, fair enough, I get it. We all do. But why do people love Google so irrationally? Are they just cheap sheep? They mean less than nothing to Google, they are just eyeballs. Apple listens to its customers. So does Google. They're not us.
Microsoft/Apple blatant team up to kick Google. Genius.
Its sad to see people cheer the demise of a great product based on a patent granted in 1995 that explains basic mapping technology.
"Down to google maps, because I love Apple"
Don't feel sad for Google or Samsung, this was the game plan from the beginning. develop a strong market on stolen patented / blatantly copy of others. settle if they Must.. in the end they will have a huge marketshare and continuing growth... so what's a billion or two....
Comments
Originally Posted by derekmorr
Android users can do this.
But they are not MADE to do it in the same respect that Microsoft is/was. They should be.
Originally Posted by jragosta
Google never saw a piece of intellectual property that they didn't want to steal - except their own, of course. Heaven help anyone who tries to copy from Google.
Not to fall off-topic, but it sounds a little like Disney. You know, taking public domain stories (software), writing their own versions (Android), and disallowing attempts at using said original material again…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
But they are not MADE to do it in the same respect that Microsoft is/was. They should be.
What is your justification for this claim? Users on iOS aren't forced to choose a search engine? Users on desktop OSes aren't either (again, aside from Windows in the EU).
Microsoft secretly loves Apple. Apple gives Microsoft a benchmark to focus on, something to aspire to.
Originally Posted by derekmorr
What is your justification for this claim? Users on iOS aren't forced to choose a search engine? Users on desktop OSes aren't either (again, aside from Windows in the EU).
The monopolistic nature of it.
Again, it's left to be decided yet, but you cannot claim that what Microsoft has been forced to do and what Google is offering up are the same, because they're not, and it doest have anything to do with the existence or lack thereof of a lawsuit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmorr
You can change your search engine in both the stock Android browser and in Chrome for Android. You can also change to a different browser entirely, as well as changing your default mapping app, email app, phone dialer, text messaging app, speech synthesizer, soft keyboard, etc. In fact, you can release Android builds that don't use any Google services at all, as Amazon and Baidu are doing.
Not if you are Acer, you can't:-
Google, Acer and the joke that is the Open Handset Alliance
Maybe Motorola should not have been so hasty in attacking Apple and Microsoft, forcing them to defend themselves, although along with threats to attack other Android OEM's it did force Google into paying through the nose for them.
Whatever happened to "Google needs competition"? Oh right. You people only believe that Apple needs competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
The monopolistic nature of it.
Again, it's left to be decided yet, but you cannot claim that what Microsoft has been forced to do and what Google is offering up are the same, because they're not, and it doest have anything to do with the existence or lack thereof of a lawsuit.
Google is not a monopoly. I never claimed that Microsoft's obnoxious browser selection screen had an analogue on Android. I was responding to a claim that Android users should be able to change their default browser and search engine. They can. And you don't need an in-your-face popup to make it happen. But more to the point, it's hard to see how one could declare Google a monopoly, since users can rip out and replace most Android OS components if they so choose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Not if you are Acer, you can't:-
Google, Acer and the joke that is the Open Handset Alliance
Maybe Motorola should not have been so hasty in attacking Apple and Microsoft, forcing them to defend themselves, although along with threats to attack other Android OEM's it did force Google into paying through the nose for them.
This issue has been beaten to death. Acer voluntarily agreed not to ship incompatible variants of Android when they joined the OHA in 2009. If Acer wants to renege on that contract, they're free to leave the OHA and ship any software they wish. Or, Alibaba could do the responsible thing and fix Aliyun's incompatibilities.
But, frankly, your comment has nothing to do with my point. Do you have proof that a user can't install a third-party browser on Aliyun, or that they can't change the soft keyboard?
Originally Posted by derekmorr
Google is not a monopoly.
Not legally, anyway. Not yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Not legally, anyway. Not yet.
Meaning, they're not a monopoly. Nice try at a smear, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin
A lot of companies that were previously using Google Maps have jumped ship. Nothing to do with this lawsuit, had to do with Google changing their licensing terms. Apple's main interest in dumping Google Maps had more to do with Google's unwillingness to allow 3rd parties access to vector based maps and turn-by-turn navigation, giving Android an advantage over competing platforms. It seems like a rather stupid move given the amount of user data that can be obtained through map based searches. Google almost instantly lost billions of search results from iOS users.
Google's #1 position in digital mapping is a clear demonstration of how you use a monopoly position in one area to make gains in another. MapQuest was for a long time was the "go to" mapping site. After Google search took off, Google naturally had an interest in "knowing" where people were going and what they were interested in. So they quickly bought up dozens of mapping companies. And their maps became the default when people searched for locations through Google's search engine.
Finally someone with a brain lol.. Its actually scary that the tech press ISN'T examining the effect that Apple basically DUMPED TWO GOOGLE mine field apps - it's Maps AND YouTube. Clearly this is a big blow to Google - a temporary effect on Apple, a permanent effect on Google..Thats the bigger story......
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Heaven help anyone who tries to copy from Google.
Why should someone be afraid of what Google might do? What actions has Google taken against anyone for possible IP infringement?
Originally Posted by derekmorr
Nice try at a smear, though.
Except nowhere did I say any such thing, so enjoy your fantasy world.
Apple and Microsoft seem to have extensive technology sharing agreements, so this issue between MS and Googie might have been moot even if Apple stayed with Googie Maps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmorr
This issue has been beaten to death. Acer voluntarily agreed not to ship incompatible variants of Android when they joined the OHA in 2009. If Acer wants to renege on that contract, they're free to leave the OHA and ship any software they wish. Or, Alibaba could do the responsible thing and fix Aliyun's incompatibilities.
But, frankly, your comment has nothing to do with my point. Do you have proof that a user can't install a third-party browser on Aliyun, or that they can't change the soft keyboard?
Are you uncomfortable with Google's iron fist?
Control, iron fisted control, force the recalcitrants to toe the line, the Google way, crush the opposition out of existence, just ask Skyhook.
Remember the maps debacle of the Galaxy S when Google marched in in their jackboots and forced Samsung to remove Skyhook from their phones, that little episode was far worse than anything with iOS 6 maps, at least Apple devices know where they are.
What iron fist would that be? The iron fist that released an operating system under an open-source license which lets their competitors (e.g. Amazon, Baidu) build good products? The iron fist that paid a competitor nearly a billion dollars to develop Firefox, including a version that can be installed and made default on Android?
Again, if you just want Android without restrictions, just checkout the AOSP source and build away. But if you voluntarily join the OHA, then you can't cry foul later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Are you uncomfortable with Google's iron fist?
Control, iron fisted control, force the recalcitrants to toe the line, the Google way, crush the opposition out of existence, just ask Skyhook.
Remember the maps debacle of the Galaxy S when Google marched in in their jackboots and forced Samsung to remove Skyhook from their phones, that little episode was far worse than anything with iOS 6 maps, at least Apple devices know where they are.
Hill, I'm certain you're very aware that some "official" Android phones even shipped with Bing preinstalled. The Google issue with Acer had nothing to do with Google services or even Google anything. It came about because Acer can't support and contribute to Android while at the same time contributing and supporting efforts to introduce incompatible forks of it to make it less relevant. That's what they agreed with to become a licensee, and quite honestly I'm pretty darned surprised if you think it doesn't make sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techstalker
Its sad to see people cheer the demise of a great product based on a patent granted in 1995 that explains basic mapping technology.
"Down to google maps, because I love Apple"
What's really confusing is why Microsoft didn't try to exercise its maps patent before... before it was sued by Google's Motorola over H.264 standards essential patents with the demand that Microsoft pay huge royalties or stop selling Xbox and Windows. Oh wait, that probably had something to do with it.
It's so hard to remember Google's position, how do you droidfans keep up? Not long ago, you were cheerleading when Google was saying that H.264 was dangerous because Apple and Microsoft held patents and that implementing it required a cheap FRAND license. Now Google is attacking Apple and Microsoft over the very thing it vilified, even though neither Apple nor Microsoft ever sued anyone over H.264 patents the way Google was happy to do as soon as it got the opportunity. But I guess that's the dirty work you have to do when you are tasked with "protecting" Android from the consequences of infringement.
Idealists believing blindly in a company with no ethics. Laughable.
Google apologists are so strange. If you've invested time and money into a company's tangible product, fair enough, I get it. We all do. But why do people love Google so irrationally? Are they just cheap sheep? They mean less than nothing to Google, they are just eyeballs. Apple listens to its customers. So does Google. They're not us.
Microsoft/Apple blatant team up to kick Google. Genius.
The enemy (Google) of your enemy (MS) is my (Apple) friend.