It probably depends upon when we get a significantly revised Mini. If they can stuff 256GB of flash onto a PCI Express interfaced card they would dramatically change the nature of the machine. With the advent of Intel only graphics such a card would make the up sell model very interesting.
I was just thinking onboard flash as in the Air, rMBP, and I guess the 27" iMac.
The flash in those machines is still on a plug in card. Smaller cards than what would be needed in a Mini and SATA last I knew. In the case of the iMac I believe it is a SSD module of laptop size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
I was just thinking onboard flash as in the Air, rMBP, and I guess the 27" iMac.
I almost feel as though I am running out steam for this at least on the mini side so let me switch over to the iMac and hit back upon a subject I had asked upon before and that is graphics memory.
Does Apple finally leave the MB territory with at least more than one model and go into the GB territory?
Between 2007 and into 2009, we got from 128 MB eventually into 512 MB discrete whether it be standard or CTO and this is going back all the way to GDDR3.
Late to 2009 to 2011 hits and we go from 256 MB all the way up to 1 GB and the lone 1 GB has GDDR5 memory.
2012 hits and we know the specs there... 512/512/512/1 (option for 2)
What does 2013 bring? Can we max it out?
Does the casual user buying an iMac not need max video memory? The consumer overruling the prosumer?
At the risk of repeating myself, I'd like to see both the current Mini and a larger tweakable 'mini' (housing the same internal structure of the iMac) to be paired with a cinema display. The larger 'Midi-Mac' and display could be the same price as, but eliminate the iMac (with its heat problem) and Apples ongoing attempts to make it thinner. When the hardware becomes obsolete, a new 'Midi-Mac' could be used with the older display.
There's no reason we couldn't just have a mid mac cube box x2 the size of the Mini with the innards of my BTO iMac.
It would make more sense of 1 stack, x2 stack x4 stack minis for mini, midi and maxi aka Pro Mac Cube. More sense than the current line up you might say. The common thread? Apple display.
However, the iMac is here. It's beautiful. Wireless. I have one cable for the power. That's it....oh, and the DVD external. Shucks.
Midi Mac. Yes. But you could argue that's what you have in an iMac anyhow. i7, 680mx, 8 gigs of ram. All in the back of a beautiful monitor. Sound.
Best hope for a 'midi' Mac is the redux of the Pro dinosaur case and a sanely priced entry model around £1295-1450 with my BTO iMac's specs. aka i7 and 680 mx. ie you forgo the monitor of the iMac.
Midi Mac. Yes. But you could argue that's what you have in an iMac anyhow. i7, 680mx, 8 gigs of ram. All in the back of a beautiful monitor. Sound.
Best hope for a 'midi' Mac is the redux of the Pro dinosaur case and a sanely priced entry model around £1295-1450 with my BTO iMac's specs. aka i7 and 680 mx. ie you forgo the monitor of the iMac.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I don't want my computer built onto the back of my monitor, no matter how beautiful anyone thinks it is.
Put the iMac parts in an easy to open case, that offers a little bit of expansion, room for an optional ODD and let me choose my monitor and I would gladly pay $1500 for it.
I'd bust down one of Apple's $100,000 doors to get it. (Okay, maybe I wouldn't go that far.)
With Apple you never know what they have planned.To me they are just modifying the same computers over and over. Nothing brand new is coming from them now.That is why their stock is going down.Competition out there is getting more fierce all the time.
Competition is fierce yes but Apple was bound to crash sooner or later. No one stays that high for that long. Think sports with the Cowboys, 49ers, or even the Yankees.
Cannot wait until June. Haswell will actually give me something to look forward to.
This is indeed a problem. It wouldn't be so bad but the line up they currently have just doesn't reflect the needs of the bulk of the desktop users out there. Sadly they don't even come close to putting in the engineering effort they put in on the laptop line up.
By the way I fully realize that the desktop market is less than robust right now. That is however the best reason going to innovate on the desktop. Apple has basically given the desktop little effort at all even though they are flush with cash. Basically trying harder wouldn't hurt them one bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox
With Apple you never know what they have planned.To me they are just modifying the same computers over and over. Nothing brand new is coming from them now.That is why their stock is going down.Competition out there is getting more fierce all the time.
I think this has been beaten to death. Frankly I'm not even sure Apple cares about the desktop anymore. Beyond that the economy looks really bleak, as such the glowing reports from Apple will likely come to an end. I could see Apple phoning in desktop updates for the next year or two.
The consumer doesn't have to buy from Apple at all. If the democrats in Washington don't come to their senses nobody will be going out of their way to buy Apple products. So maybe in six months we will see Apples sales tanking with everyone wondering why. We could very well see a long term mindset change in the majority of consumers that moves them away from supporting high margin products like Apples hardware.
We are already seeing dramatic changes in spending behavior where the likes of WalMart, JCP, and many other vendors serving the middle class seeing a huge regression in sales. It will be very interesting to see what the long term trend is over the year and beyond. Apple may simply not be an option for many this year. This could very well force Apples hand when it comes to some of its high cost low performance machines.
This may sound a bit pessimistic and frankly is a significant change in my outlook. The problem is pretty clear though, we have a president that believes working for a living is a bad thing. People may object to bringing the political into the discussion but the fact is what is about to happen could damage the economy for a good year or longer. It simply doesn't look rosy for Apple anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
So basically it will be up the consumer to use what options are available either from Apple or a third-party? Agreed?
Okay that was a major diversion and also I blame both parties. Both of them are rich you know whats who don't care about the middle class.
Getting back to Apple; all I was saying was since you mentioned about mailing it in about how whatever minor updates are made to the mini, those will be the only options available to those that still buy. There is not a major push by people to tell Apple to radically change things so Apple will keep the status quo.
I don't want to drag the thread off track either but the business outlook could turn very negative very quickly and impact Apple significantly.
I don't know about a push to change things at Apple, I think their crappy desktop sales are a clear indicator that people are feed up with the iMac / Mini / Mac Pro line up and artificial tiering. Why the desktop has remained so stagnate while the laptop line stays fresh is beyond me. People have spoken loudly by not even considering Apple for their desktop needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
Okay that was a major diversion and also I blame both parties. Both of them are rich you know whats who don't care about the middle class.
Getting back to Apple; all I was saying was since you mentioned about mailing it in about how whatever minor updates are made to the mini, those will be the only options available to those that still buy. There is not a major push by people to tell Apple to radically change things so Apple will keep the status quo.
The consumer doesn't have to buy from Apple at all. If the democrats in Washington don't come to their senses nobody will be going out of their way to buy Apple products. So maybe in six months we will see Apples sales tanking with everyone wondering why. We could very well see a long term mindset change in the majority of consumers that moves them away from supporting high margin products like Apples hardware.
I'm amazed that someone who can describe their ideas about tech so clearly drifts off into these political rants. My own displeasure with politicians isn't really restricted to a given a party, more a lack of focus on long term solutions. Edit: I'm leaving this intentionally ambiguous as I don't want to turn the thread into political outsider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I don't want to drag the thread off track either but the business outlook could turn very negative very quickly and impact Apple significantly.
I don't know about a push to change things at Apple, I think their crappy desktop sales are a clear indicator that people are feed up with the iMac / Mini / Mac Pro line up and artificial tiering. Why the desktop has remained so stagnate while the laptop line stays fresh is beyond me. People have spoken loudly by not even considering Apple for their desktop needs.
I've thought about this quite a bit. While I don't think they can predict with 100% certainty what will happen in tech products a few years from now, Apple requires large markets due to their size. The question here is what combination of electronic devices will they try to push? You have pointed out before that you feel less compelled to own a notebook now that you have an ipad. I still have a number of hangups about the imacs. One of them that isn't likely to go away anytime soon would be the trend toward less serviceable machines while the more desirable configurations remain around $2k prior to making upgrades. Fusion drives mean more points of potential failure. Anyway if I ever considered one, I would test its stability booted from an external drive, just in case of failure. I've had drives die. I have seen just general flaky drive problems that generate corrupt data. It would be less of an issue to me if they weren't such unreliable devices by their very nature. I include current generation SSDs in that. One thing too many people fail to grasp is that mechanical failure isn't the only thing that can brick a volume or device.
Apple will never (I feel anyway) hit towards bankruptcy as long as most of their current staff stays aboard and the next ones in line are well trained.
Their next line of computers may not be amazing but they will be sufficient I feel.
I'm amazed that someone who can describe their ideas about tech so clearly drifts off into these political rants. My own displeasure with politicians isn't really restricted to a given a party, more a lack of focus on long term solutions. Edit: I'm leaving this intentionally ambiguous as I don't want to turn the thread into political outsider.
Quote:
Honestly I'm very mixed in my political leanings and frankly never paid a huge amount of attention to the different parties. However I have to say that the current situation in Washington is the worst I've ever seen in my 53 years of life. Obama and much of his crew are basically idiots and thugs not really caring what they do to the country.
In the context of this thread though and the concerns about the future of Apple you have to worry a bit about just how bad the economy will get in the next few years.
I've thought about this quite a bit. While I don't think they can predict with 100% certainty what will happen in tech products a few years from now, Apple requires large markets due to their size. The question here is what combination of electronic devices will they try to push? You have pointed out before that you feel less compelled to own a notebook now that you have an ipad. I still have a number of hangups about the imacs.
Quote:
The thing with the iMac for me is serviceability, I really see no reason to give that up in a desktop machine. It is a different score in a tablet type device. I'd go so far as to admit that making a tablet serviceable would likely lead to a less reliable tablet. However I've gotten to the point where I hand on to my computers much longer than I have in the past thus the ability to keep them running is even more important today than it was 10 years ago.
In any event the idea that Apple needs large markets for all of its products is bogus in my estimation. Products need to pay for themselves obviously but that is a matter of correctly configuring and marketing them.
One of them that isn't likely to go away anytime soon would be the trend toward less serviceable machines while the more desirable configurations remain around $2k prior to making upgrades.
Quote:
Which is exactly what many fear will happen with the Mac Pro. The fear is that the machine will be far less configurable and serviceable. This isn't good for a machine that is designed to fill a wide array of roles. Now I can see the machine getting smaller, that I expect for multiple reasons, what I don't want to see it performance being designed out of the machine for some odd goal of an overly shrunken machine.
Fusion drives mean more points of potential failure. Anyway if I ever considered one, I would test its stability booted from an external drive, just in case of failure. I've had drives die. I have seen just general flaky drive problems that generate corrupt data. It would be less of an issue to me if they weren't such unreliable devices by their very nature. I include current generation SSDs in that. One thing too many people fail to grasp is that mechanical failure isn't the only thing that can brick a volume or device.
Actually I'm not so certain what the reliability impact would be. A fusion drive could effectively bias access to the point where wear on the magnetic drive is drastically reduced. If the heads remain parked your risk with respect to head rashes is reduced and you should extend mechanical life. This could actually be a very interesting discussion as I've also had my share of harddrive problems. In the case of Apple though they are extremely conservative and seem to avoid the worst harddrive quality problems. In the end Fusion drives are probably a net win for most users.
Interestingly I've heard very little about SSD failures in any of Apples machines. I'm certain it happens but it obvious is a slight problem and well under the radar. This is in stark contrast to the industry in general where there are many examples of SSDs that have not been well implemented. Some models of SSD's have seen near 100% failure rates which is terrible for solid state hardware.
Actually I'm not so certain what the reliability impact would be. A fusion drive could effectively bias access to the point where wear on the magnetic drive is drastically reduced. If the heads remain parked your risk with respect to head rashes is reduced and you should extend mechanical life. This could actually be a very interesting discussion as I've also had my share of harddrive problems. In the case of Apple though they are extremely conservative and seem to avoid the worst harddrive quality problems. In the end Fusion drives are probably a net win for most users.Interestingly I've heard very little about SSD failures in any of Apples machines. I'm certain it happens but it obvious is a slight problem and well under the radar. This is in stark contrast to the industry in general where there are many examples of SSDs that have not been well implemented. Some models of SSD's have seen near 100% failure rates which is terrible for solid state hardware.
I recall the Sandforce controller debacle. Regarding Apple I'm not sure whether they're more reliable overall. I haven't seen any complaints regarding ssd failures on their end. With fusion drives my concern was that they add quite a bit to the cost with additional points of failure. I'm partly skeptical as I don't know how it's set up or what additional problems (if any) might be encountered.
Comments
I was just thinking onboard flash as in the Air, rMBP, and I guess the 27" iMac.
The flash in those machines is still on a plug in card. Smaller cards than what would be needed in a Mini and SATA last I knew. In the case of the iMac I believe it is a SSD module of laptop size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
I was just thinking onboard flash as in the Air, rMBP, and I guess the 27" iMac.
Does Apple finally leave the MB territory with at least more than one model and go into the GB territory?
Between 2007 and into 2009, we got from 128 MB eventually into 512 MB discrete whether it be standard or CTO and this is going back all the way to GDDR3.
Late to 2009 to 2011 hits and we go from 256 MB all the way up to 1 GB and the lone 1 GB has GDDR5 memory.
2012 hits and we know the specs there... 512/512/512/1 (option for 2)
What does 2013 bring? Can we max it out?
Does the casual user buying an iMac not need max video memory? The consumer overruling the prosumer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
post #267
At the risk of repeating myself, I'd like to see both the current Mini and a larger tweakable 'mini' (housing the same internal structure of the iMac) to be paired with a cinema display. The larger 'Midi-Mac' and display could be the same price as, but eliminate the iMac (with its heat problem) and Apples ongoing attempts to make it thinner. When the hardware becomes obsolete, a new 'Midi-Mac' could be used with the older display.
There's no reason we couldn't just have a mid mac cube box x2 the size of the Mini with the innards of my BTO iMac.
It would make more sense of 1 stack, x2 stack x4 stack minis for mini, midi and maxi aka Pro Mac Cube. More sense than the current line up you might say. The common thread? Apple display.
However, the iMac is here. It's beautiful. Wireless. I have one cable for the power. That's it....oh, and the DVD external. Shucks.
Midi Mac. Yes. But you could argue that's what you have in an iMac anyhow. i7, 680mx, 8 gigs of ram. All in the back of a beautiful monitor. Sound.
Best hope for a 'midi' Mac is the redux of the Pro dinosaur case and a sanely priced entry model around £1295-1450 with my BTO iMac's specs. aka i7 and 680 mx. ie you forgo the monitor of the iMac.
But the new iMac's heat problem? yeah? :P
Mine has been 'ice cold' since I got it.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
Midi Mac. Yes. But you could argue that's what you have in an iMac anyhow. i7, 680mx, 8 gigs of ram. All in the back of a beautiful monitor. Sound.
Best hope for a 'midi' Mac is the redux of the Pro dinosaur case and a sanely priced entry model around £1295-1450 with my BTO iMac's specs. aka i7 and 680 mx. ie you forgo the monitor of the iMac.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I don't want my computer built onto the back of my monitor, no matter how beautiful anyone thinks it is.
Put the iMac parts in an easy to open case, that offers a little bit of expansion, room for an optional ODD and let me choose my monitor and I would gladly pay $1500 for it.
I'd bust down one of Apple's $100,000 doors to get it. (Okay, maybe I wouldn't go that far.)
With Apple you never know what they have planned.To me they are just modifying the same computers over and over. Nothing brand new is coming from them now.That is why their stock is going down.Competition out there is getting more fierce all the time.
Cannot wait until June. Haswell will actually give me something to look forward to.
This is indeed a problem. It wouldn't be so bad but the line up they currently have just doesn't reflect the needs of the bulk of the desktop users out there. Sadly they don't even come close to putting in the engineering effort they put in on the laptop line up.
By the way I fully realize that the desktop market is less than robust right now. That is however the best reason going to innovate on the desktop. Apple has basically given the desktop little effort at all even though they are flush with cash. Basically trying harder wouldn't hurt them one bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox
With Apple you never know what they have planned.To me they are just modifying the same computers over and over. Nothing brand new is coming from them now.That is why their stock is going down.Competition out there is getting more fierce all the time.
Go wild and have fun.
I think this has been beaten to death. Frankly I'm not even sure Apple cares about the desktop anymore. Beyond that the economy looks really bleak, as such the glowing reports from Apple will likely come to an end. I could see Apple phoning in desktop updates for the next year or two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
Bump. Hello? Wizard?
Huh?
Im not following you at all here.
The consumer doesn't have to buy from Apple at all. If the democrats in Washington don't come to their senses nobody will be going out of their way to buy Apple products. So maybe in six months we will see Apples sales tanking with everyone wondering why. We could very well see a long term mindset change in the majority of consumers that moves them away from supporting high margin products like Apples hardware.
We are already seeing dramatic changes in spending behavior where the likes of WalMart, JCP, and many other vendors serving the middle class seeing a huge regression in sales. It will be very interesting to see what the long term trend is over the year and beyond. Apple may simply not be an option for many this year. This could very well force Apples hand when it comes to some of its high cost low performance machines.
This may sound a bit pessimistic and frankly is a significant change in my outlook. The problem is pretty clear though, we have a president that believes working for a living is a bad thing. People may object to bringing the political into the discussion but the fact is what is about to happen could damage the economy for a good year or longer. It simply doesn't look rosy for Apple anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
So basically it will be up the consumer to use what options are available either from Apple or a third-party? Agreed?
Getting back to Apple; all I was saying was since you mentioned about mailing it in about how whatever minor updates are made to the mini, those will be the only options available to those that still buy. There is not a major push by people to tell Apple to radically change things so Apple will keep the status quo.
I don't want to drag the thread off track either but the business outlook could turn very negative very quickly and impact Apple significantly.
I don't know about a push to change things at Apple, I think their crappy desktop sales are a clear indicator that people are feed up with the iMac / Mini / Mac Pro line up and artificial tiering. Why the desktop has remained so stagnate while the laptop line stays fresh is beyond me. People have spoken loudly by not even considering Apple for their desktop needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
Okay that was a major diversion and also I blame both parties. Both of them are rich you know whats who don't care about the middle class.
Getting back to Apple; all I was saying was since you mentioned about mailing it in about how whatever minor updates are made to the mini, those will be the only options available to those that still buy. There is not a major push by people to tell Apple to radically change things so Apple will keep the status quo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Huh?
Im not following you at all here.
The consumer doesn't have to buy from Apple at all. If the democrats in Washington don't come to their senses nobody will be going out of their way to buy Apple products. So maybe in six months we will see Apples sales tanking with everyone wondering why. We could very well see a long term mindset change in the majority of consumers that moves them away from supporting high margin products like Apples hardware.
I'm amazed that someone who can describe their ideas about tech so clearly drifts off into these political rants. My own displeasure with politicians isn't really restricted to a given a party, more a lack of focus on long term solutions. Edit: I'm leaving this intentionally ambiguous as I don't want to turn the thread into political outsider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I don't want to drag the thread off track either but the business outlook could turn very negative very quickly and impact Apple significantly.
I don't know about a push to change things at Apple, I think their crappy desktop sales are a clear indicator that people are feed up with the iMac / Mini / Mac Pro line up and artificial tiering. Why the desktop has remained so stagnate while the laptop line stays fresh is beyond me. People have spoken loudly by not even considering Apple for their desktop needs.
I've thought about this quite a bit. While I don't think they can predict with 100% certainty what will happen in tech products a few years from now, Apple requires large markets due to their size. The question here is what combination of electronic devices will they try to push? You have pointed out before that you feel less compelled to own a notebook now that you have an ipad. I still have a number of hangups about the imacs. One of them that isn't likely to go away anytime soon would be the trend toward less serviceable machines while the more desirable configurations remain around $2k prior to making upgrades. Fusion drives mean more points of potential failure. Anyway if I ever considered one, I would test its stability booted from an external drive, just in case of failure. I've had drives die. I have seen just general flaky drive problems that generate corrupt data. It would be less of an issue to me if they weren't such unreliable devices by their very nature. I include current generation SSDs in that. One thing too many people fail to grasp is that mechanical failure isn't the only thing that can brick a volume or device.
Their next line of computers may not be amazing but they will be sufficient I feel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
I'm amazed that someone who can describe their ideas about tech so clearly drifts off into these political rants. My own displeasure with politicians isn't really restricted to a given a party, more a lack of focus on long term solutions. Edit: I'm leaving this intentionally ambiguous as I don't want to turn the thread into political outsider.
Quote:
Honestly I'm very mixed in my political leanings and frankly never paid a huge amount of attention to the different parties. However I have to say that the current situation in Washington is the worst I've ever seen in my 53 years of life. Obama and much of his crew are basically idiots and thugs not really caring what they do to the country.
In the context of this thread though and the concerns about the future of Apple you have to worry a bit about just how bad the economy will get in the next few years.
I've thought about this quite a bit. While I don't think they can predict with 100% certainty what will happen in tech products a few years from now, Apple requires large markets due to their size. The question here is what combination of electronic devices will they try to push? You have pointed out before that you feel less compelled to own a notebook now that you have an ipad. I still have a number of hangups about the imacs.
Quote:
The thing with the iMac for me is serviceability, I really see no reason to give that up in a desktop machine. It is a different score in a tablet type device. I'd go so far as to admit that making a tablet serviceable would likely lead to a less reliable tablet. However I've gotten to the point where I hand on to my computers much longer than I have in the past thus the ability to keep them running is even more important today than it was 10 years ago.
In any event the idea that Apple needs large markets for all of its products is bogus in my estimation. Products need to pay for themselves obviously but that is a matter of correctly configuring and marketing them.
One of them that isn't likely to go away anytime soon would be the trend toward less serviceable machines while the more desirable configurations remain around $2k prior to making upgrades.
Quote:
Which is exactly what many fear will happen with the Mac Pro. The fear is that the machine will be far less configurable and serviceable. This isn't good for a machine that is designed to fill a wide array of roles. Now I can see the machine getting smaller, that I expect for multiple reasons, what I don't want to see it performance being designed out of the machine for some odd goal of an overly shrunken machine.
Fusion drives mean more points of potential failure. Anyway if I ever considered one, I would test its stability booted from an external drive, just in case of failure. I've had drives die. I have seen just general flaky drive problems that generate corrupt data. It would be less of an issue to me if they weren't such unreliable devices by their very nature. I include current generation SSDs in that. One thing too many people fail to grasp is that mechanical failure isn't the only thing that can brick a volume or device.
Actually I'm not so certain what the reliability impact would be. A fusion drive could effectively bias access to the point where wear on the magnetic drive is drastically reduced. If the heads remain parked your risk with respect to head rashes is reduced and you should extend mechanical life. This could actually be a very interesting discussion as I've also had my share of harddrive problems. In the case of Apple though they are extremely conservative and seem to avoid the worst harddrive quality problems. In the end Fusion drives are probably a net win for most users.Interestingly I've heard very little about SSD failures in any of Apples machines. I'm certain it happens but it obvious is a slight problem and well under the radar. This is in stark contrast to the industry in general where there are many examples of SSDs that have not been well implemented. Some models of SSD's have seen near 100% failure rates which is terrible for solid state hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Actually I'm not so certain what the reliability impact would be. A fusion drive could effectively bias access to the point where wear on the magnetic drive is drastically reduced. If the heads remain parked your risk with respect to head rashes is reduced and you should extend mechanical life. This could actually be a very interesting discussion as I've also had my share of harddrive problems. In the case of Apple though they are extremely conservative and seem to avoid the worst harddrive quality problems. In the end Fusion drives are probably a net win for most users.Interestingly I've heard very little about SSD failures in any of Apples machines. I'm certain it happens but it obvious is a slight problem and well under the radar. This is in stark contrast to the industry in general where there are many examples of SSDs that have not been well implemented. Some models of SSD's have seen near 100% failure rates which is terrible for solid state hardware.I recall the Sandforce controller debacle. Regarding Apple I'm not sure whether they're more reliable overall. I haven't seen any complaints regarding ssd failures on their end. With fusion drives my concern was that they add quite a bit to the cost with additional points of failure. I'm partly skeptical as I don't know how it's set up or what additional problems (if any) might be encountered.