I'm amazed that we're still waiting on a 2014 Mini update. While Macs are still integral to Apple, the casual buyer could be forgiven for wondering if Apple cares about a product it hasn't updated at all for 500 days, and which hasn't had a major design change since the optical was removed in 2011.
Hopefully, the wait implies a major upgrade, but if so I'm still surprised Apple is spending so much time on such a small part of the lineup.
I would have thought Apple would just keep the innards fairly updated, and then quickly move on to the other product lines.
The Windows side of things keeps getting more small PC options, while we're being left behind on this front.
Maybe Apple feels it's time to match Intel's NUC form factor and own the space, even if the potential profits are limited.
Considering that Dell just dropped a sub-$600 education laptop on the market today, maybe Apple just has its focus elsewhere.
Hopefully the mac mini will survive some how. Who really knows with Apple?
I mentioned this before in another way but have you ever had to wait so long for something you just sort of lose interest in it? That's kind of the way I feel. The biggest advantage I would expect on a new prospective mini would be the PCIe SSD followed by the graphics. Realistically, I am not sure how much of a speed jump it would be on the processor front from Sandy Bridge to Haswell. Maybe someone can answer that.
I would most likely buy a dual core Haswell with Iris graphics and not a quad core with Iris Pro. If they went across the board with HD 4600, the quad core may be within my price range though I don't know that for sure.
I mentioned this before in another way but have you ever had to wait so long for something you just sort of lose interest in it? That's kind of the way I feel. The biggest advantage I would expect on a new prospective mini would be the PCIe SSD followed by the graphics. Realistically, I am not sure how much of a speed jump it would be on the processor front from Sandy Bridge to Haswell. Maybe someone can answer that.
CPU wise it isn't a huge leap at all, GPU wise it is a significant leap forward. The CPU does gain some improvements but it isn't really discussion worthy.
I would most likely buy a dual core Haswell with Iris graphics and not a quad core with Iris Pro. If they went across the board with HD 4600, the quad core may be within my price range though I don't know that for sure.
If it ever ships. At this point there is no reason I can think of for it to not be shipping so I have to think Apple is up to something with a new model. I still have this idea that an ARM based machine is in the works to completely replace the Mini and target a slightly different market segment. The rumors of quad core ARM chips already in production would indicate that this is a possibility. After all Apple has nothing to introduce at the moment IOS device wise so why the production ramp. I could actually see them integrating this product into the Apple TV line. Sort of a combo PC/Media Server/Apple TV/Projector/Kitchen Sink machine.
Why would they do this? Well to go after their core customer base with a product that would be seen as providing an excellent value. The only question would be what sort of OS would it operate with. This would also free up Apple to offer a desktop machine in the $1200 to $1500 range for an entry machine. With ARM and a complete control of the SoC features, Apple could provide a whole bunch of functionality relatively cheaply.
The big problem would be if the device doesn't support Mac OS for many of us. The Mini represents Apples only affordable headless solution and if it gets canned for a machine that doesn't support Mac OS many of us would be very disappointed.
I only mention the Apple TV in this reply because it is due and heavily rumored to be in the running for a big make over. Further make over might not be the right term here as I see this as an additional AppleTV product and not a direct replacement for the current cheap unit.
If it ever ships. At this point there is no reason I can think of for it to not be shipping so I have to think Apple is up to something with a new model.
I'm actually with Marvin on this one. Intel will do their mid cycle bump. Apple will probably bump the macbook pros at that time and bump the mini while at it. Broadwell isn't showing up anytime soon. Winter is probably unhappy with the way games run on his current one, but I think it may be a couple more cycles before gaming is truly comfortable with integrated graphics. If the value of a mini drops slowly, it could be possible to resell the old machine with each cycle so as to keep up with recent games.
Nuc so-so. Shuttle so-so. Better to buy your own small case and components off the build lists.
Or just buy a Mac if you want a Mac. Nucs are great for Linux if you want to embed a computer in another device. I'm actually shocked by the amount of compute power it is now possible to put into the palm of your hand. I mean completely functional devices here. Not to let on how old I am but one of my earlier computers was a Commodore Vic 20 which frankly sucked performance wise back then even if I could afford it. Now I can grasp an MP3 player from Apple and have a far more useful device that is a fraction of the size of the Vic 20.
In any event ancient history and the current reality of devices like the Nuc have me wondering what Apple might be up to with the Mini or its replacement. With the power profiles so low (supposedly) on Broadwell I see so many options for Apple that it mind bending. How about a Mini that is 1/4 the size of the Mac Pro but more or less modeled on the Pro or a Mini built into a keyboard? The low power points of these chips and the high integration is just amazing to a guy that has owned a Vic 20, CPM based computers, an original Mac Plus and a whole bunch of hardware running Linux over the years.
In any event the longer we wait the more I think the Mini will look a bit different than today's Mini. It just makes sense that it would be overhauled when we are about to see an entire new generation of chips with much higher integration. I can even see Apple trying to replace the Mini with something that runs on their coming A8 chip.
1. Is there any upcoming Mac keynotes coming up where a mini could possibly be announced or be updated quietly with other products?
I really doubt that the Mini would get a media event if it is a simple bump! Honestly I sometimes think they are ashamed of the machine and try to not acknowledge it in public. That is too bad really because the form factor is becoming very popular even if it isn't Apple hardware.
If the Mini does get a major overhaul or significantly refactored then I can see a media event of some sort.
The problem right now is that Apple has so effectively clamped down on leaks nobody knows what is going on, what is coming next or when anything will be released. This is really a case of Apple going overboard in my mind as a few leaks here and there actually increase interest in coming products.
2. Can a mod change the title to 2014 Mac mini Wishlist (take out the iMac part)
Sorry not a Mod, looks like somebody I'd the dirty though and changed the year for you. The fact that we had to do this is frustrating. I would much rather have seen Apple do a quick Haswell based Mini launch last year even if they have something big planned for this year. The Haswell GPU is just too good to pass up at the prices Apple charges. Thus the idea that the current Mini is obsolete in its current form.
The next thing we know about is the iOS 8 preview, and of course it won’t be then. Then WWDC, and they’ve moved away from introducing hardware then.
They still debut or prerelease hardware around WWDC. After all that is where the first glimpse of the new Mac Pro happened.
I'm actually thinking that the next big Apple release will be an AppleTV device, where AppleTV becomes a family of products. This could happen anytime. The interesting thing here is claims of A8 already being in production. It is unlikely that the iPad will get revved already so the only machine I could see them going into is an uber AppleTV. On the other hand it wouldn't hurt Apple one bit to lap the competition and ship an A8 based iPad.
Could be a spring event for a new Apple TV box if that exists. Mac Mini wouldn’t even get a mention, of course, and would be updated silently.
A silent update could come at anytime. If the AppleTV is what I think it is, I could see that getting a big media event. What imagining is a high performance version of the current AppleTV that supports gaming, a video library and has a built in video projector.
The way I see it, at this point they’ll probably just wait until Broadwell.
This is very possible. Sadly depending upon which rumor you believe this could be close to next year. The other possibility is Haswell refresh which should come soon. Haswell refresh might be worth waiting for if Intel can significantly lower thermals thus allowing Apple to cram more performance into the box. I'm just not hearing about great strides in thermal performance with Haswell refresh. Knowing Apple they may see Haswell refresh as a way to get today's Haswells at a lower price.
Thank you to whomever did that. I will make one more iMac note though. I didn't think much about the first three months of this year probably because of all the snow we've had in NJ. I just remembered last night that nVidia was supposed to release their Maxwell series of cards around this time. Eagerly checking nVidia's website, I saw that they did indeed have information on Maxwell as well as upcoming notebooks with the graphics in them. It would appear that the 880M (which is the only one that matters to me) has a max of 8 GB of GDDR5 memory. So I wonder if Apple will include this on the 2014 iMac as an option. I hope they do.
When is the Haswell refresh planned for? June? This might be a factor for a quiet release. In October, my mini will be three years old, and I would like to replace it.
Thank you to whomever did that. I will make one more iMac note though. I didn't think much about the first three months of this year probably because of all the snow we've had in NJ. I just remembered last night that nVidia was supposed to release their Maxwell series of cards around this time. Eagerly checking nVidia's website, I saw that they did indeed have information on Maxwell as well as upcoming notebooks with the graphics in them. It would appear that the 880M (which is the only one that matters to me) has a max of 8 GB of GDDR5 memory. So I wonder if Apple will include this on the 2014 iMac as an option. I hope they do.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple go AMD in the new iMac. You get better compute performance in many cases and more importantly they can share code with the Mac Pro. That and the fact hat I don't especially like NVidia has me hoping for this change.
Interestingly I've yet to see a really bad report on GPU driver behavior in the new Mac Pros. I take this as a good sign that the extended development of this machine was worth the wait.
When is the Haswell refresh planned for? June?
Depends upon whom you believe but May / June seems to be the common time frames. Sadly there is nothing about the refresh that inspires. In fact the refresh from a technical standpoint is hardly worth waiting for. It really appears to be a stop gap measure due to the delay with Broadwell that was suppose to launch this year.
We can hope for new functionality or power points to better fit the Mini, but it is doubtful that the chips will be revved to that extent. At this point it looks like the same chips with 100 MHz faster clocks. 100 MHz is nothing in a 4GHz chip.
This might be a factor for a quiet release. In October, my mini will be three years old, and I would like to replace it.
What is the rush? My MBP is now five years old. And yes it needs to be replaced. In any event I think you need to be prepared for the Mini going away at least in its current form. As time goes on it just seems like the future of the machine is more and more questionable.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple go AMD in the new iMac. You get better compute performance in many cases and more importantly they can share code with the Mac Pro. That and the fact hat I don't especially like NVidia has me hoping for this change.
They go back and forth depending on the offering. I'm really not surprised either way. In the case of the mac pro, AMD may have been more favorable in licensing terms. NVidia has a much more defined brand with their Quadros than AMD with the firepro name. It was also probably meant to be highly aligned with FCPX, as that alignment can be used to help maintain the required numbers over the longer term. It wouldn't a new strategy for Apple. They make their money off hardware, so they sink the cost of software wherever possible. It has worked out quite well for them.
I don't follow GPUs like I use to, mainly because most of the discrete chips out there now are good enough for my needs. Integrated GPUs are right on the edge of being good enough also. Well at least until 4 K displays become affordable.
They go back and forth depending on the offering. I'm really not surprised either way. In the case of the mac pro, AMD may have been more favorable in licensing terms. NVidia has a much more defined brand with their Quadros than AMD with the firepro name.
It would have been most interesting to be a fly on the wall when Apple started discussions about their new Mac Pro concept with AMD and NVidia. I suspect AMD was more willing due to the need to extend credibility to their GPU line up. That and they need to make up for lackluster CPU advancements.
Beyond that it really looks like AMD have a shared vision with respect to GPU compute and how it will work in systems going forward. Im certain AMD learned much with this partnership.
It was also probably meant to be highly aligned with FCPX, as that alignment can be used to help maintain the required numbers over the longer term. It wouldn't a new strategy for Apple. They make their money off hardware, so they sink the cost of software wherever possible. It has worked out quite well for them.
That may be part of their strategy but Apple needs to broaden the Mac Pros horizons. If need be they ought to buy up a CAD house or two this to expand more into the different engineering fields.
Apple has a great platform in the Mac Pro but they really need to get more software vendors on board with native apps. Otherwise the platform remains a niche solution.
I don't follow GPUs like I use to, mainly because most of the discrete chips out there now are good enough for my needs. Integrated GPUs are right on the edge of being good enough also. Well at least until 4 K displays become affordable.
It would have been most interesting to be a fly on the wall when Apple started discussions about their new Mac Pro concept with AMD and NVidia. I suspect AMD was more willing due to the need to extend credibility to their GPU line up. That and they need to make up for lackluster CPU advancements.
4K should be fine at least by the next models. The 15" rmbp is advertised to support 4K, and its base model uses integrated graphics. It's just that there is a significant divide in terms of where diminishing returns kick in when comparing the majority of users to those who do things that really stress the gpu. Unfortunately I come across a lot of people spreading bad information as to what benefits what. I clear up what I can. It's annoying to see others suggest people strain their budgets on things that will will not be really meaningful or noticeable in their regular use, such as not budgeting for what should be essential peripherals due to their not being as exciting. I know you dislike NVidia, and that's fine. I would point out that they have historically spent a lot more on value added additions. Much like Apple they write software with little to no licensing fees to sell their hardware. That is part of how they're able to charge those markups. They did gimp the double precision math on some of their gaming gpus, which is annoying. It's a way of ensuring a certain minimum sale. I suspect AMD has less to lose when it comes to licensing their firepro brand. Quadro and Tesla cards account account for a huge percentage of NVidia's profits relative to their volume, which is fairly low. Marvin linked it once, but I can't find the link.
Quote:
Beyond that it really looks like AMD have a shared vision with respect to GPU compute and how it will work in systems going forward. Im certain AMD learned much with this partnership.
That is entirely possible.
Quote:
That may be part of their strategy but Apple needs to broaden the Mac Pros horizons. If need be they ought to buy up a CAD house or two this to expand more into the different engineering fields.
Apple has a great platform in the Mac Pro but they really need to get more software vendors on board with native apps. Otherwise the platform remains a niche solution.
I am not the one to provide informed opinions about catia or autocad. I have some basic familiarity, just not enough to provide any meaningful insight. For example is it just
Comments
I'm amazed that we're still waiting on a 2014 Mini update. While Macs are still integral to Apple, the casual buyer could be forgiven for wondering if Apple cares about a product it hasn't updated at all for 500 days, and which hasn't had a major design change since the optical was removed in 2011.
Hopefully, the wait implies a major upgrade, but if so I'm still surprised Apple is spending so much time on such a small part of the lineup.
I would have thought Apple would just keep the innards fairly updated, and then quickly move on to the other product lines.
The Windows side of things keeps getting more small PC options, while we're being left behind on this front.
Maybe Apple feels it's time to match Intel's NUC form factor and own the space, even if the potential profits are limited.
Considering that Dell just dropped a sub-$600 education laptop on the market today, maybe Apple just has its focus elsewhere.
With Apple it pays to be cautious because getting too wrapped up in the idea that they can deliver what you want will often lead to disappointment.
Can I print that up on some T-shirts?
Hopefully the mac mini will survive some how.Who really knows with Apple?
I mentioned this before in another way but have you ever had to wait so long for something you just sort of lose interest in it? That's kind of the way I feel. The biggest advantage I would expect on a new prospective mini would be the PCIe SSD followed by the graphics. Realistically, I am not sure how much of a speed jump it would be on the processor front from Sandy Bridge to Haswell. Maybe someone can answer that.
I would most likely buy a dual core Haswell with Iris graphics and not a quad core with Iris Pro. If they went across the board with HD 4600, the quad core may be within my price range though I don't know that for sure.
Why would they do this? Well to go after their core customer base with a product that would be seen as providing an excellent value. The only question would be what sort of OS would it operate with. This would also free up Apple to offer a desktop machine in the $1200 to $1500 range for an entry machine. With ARM and a complete control of the SoC features, Apple could provide a whole bunch of functionality relatively cheaply.
The big problem would be if the device doesn't support Mac OS for many of us. The Mini represents Apples only affordable headless solution and if it gets canned for a machine that doesn't support Mac OS many of us would be very disappointed.
I only mention the Apple TV in this reply because it is due and heavily rumored to be in the running for a big make over. Further make over might not be the right term here as I see this as an additional AppleTV product and not a direct replacement for the current cheap unit.
Quote:
If it ever ships. At this point there is no reason I can think of for it to not be shipping so I have to think Apple is up to something with a new model.
I'm actually with Marvin on this one. Intel will do their mid cycle bump. Apple will probably bump the macbook pros at that time and bump the mini while at it. Broadwell isn't showing up anytime soon. Winter is probably unhappy with the way games run on his current one, but I think it may be a couple more cycles before gaming is truly comfortable with integrated graphics. If the value of a mini drops slowly, it could be possible to resell the old machine with each cycle so as to keep up with recent games.
Good idea Mac Mini thread.There is a site called 123 Mac Mini which is all about mac mini systems and other software they it uses.
Can you Hackintosh an Intel NUC? Or a Shuttle?
One would think that sub-$500 computers would be the right price for people willing to risk using unsupported PC configs.
I wonder if this revolution in small, cheap PCs played a role in Apple discontinuing retail boxed versions of the OS?
Nuc so-so. Shuttle so-so. Better to buy your own small case and components off the build lists.
Or just buy a Mac if you want a Mac. Nucs are great for Linux if you want to embed a computer in another device. I'm actually shocked by the amount of compute power it is now possible to put into the palm of your hand. I mean completely functional devices here. Not to let on how old I am but one of my earlier computers was a Commodore Vic 20 which frankly sucked performance wise back then even if I could afford it. Now I can grasp an MP3 player from Apple and have a far more useful device that is a fraction of the size of the Vic 20.
In any event ancient history and the current reality of devices like the Nuc have me wondering what Apple might be up to with the Mini or its replacement. With the power profiles so low (supposedly) on Broadwell I see so many options for Apple that it mind bending. How about a Mini that is 1/4 the size of the Mac Pro but more or less modeled on the Pro or a Mini built into a keyboard? The low power points of these chips and the high integration is just amazing to a guy that has owned a Vic 20, CPM based computers, an original Mac Plus and a whole bunch of hardware running Linux over the years.
In any event the longer we wait the more I think the Mini will look a bit different than today's Mini. It just makes sense that it would be overhauled when we are about to see an entire new generation of chips with much higher integration. I can even see Apple trying to replace the Mini with something that runs on their coming A8 chip.
1. Is there any upcoming Mac keynotes coming up where a mini could possibly be announced or be updated quietly with other products?
2. Can a mod change the title to 2014 Mac mini Wishlist (take out the iMac part)
The next thing we know about is the iOS 8 preview, and of course it won’t be then. Then WWDC, and they’ve moved away from introducing hardware then.
Could be a spring event for a new Apple TV box if that exists. Mac Mini wouldn’t even get a mention, of course, and would be updated silently.
The way I see it, at this point they’ll probably just wait until Broadwell.
If the Mini does get a major overhaul or significantly refactored then I can see a media event of some sort.
The problem right now is that Apple has so effectively clamped down on leaks nobody knows what is going on, what is coming next or when anything will be released. This is really a case of Apple going overboard in my mind as a few leaks here and there actually increase interest in coming products.
Sorry not a Mod, looks like somebody I'd the dirty though and changed the year for you. The fact that we had to do this is frustrating. I would much rather have seen Apple do a quick Haswell based Mini launch last year even if they have something big planned for this year. The Haswell GPU is just too good to pass up at the prices Apple charges. Thus the idea that the current Mini is obsolete in its current form.
I'm actually thinking that the next big Apple release will be an AppleTV device, where AppleTV becomes a family of products. This could happen anytime. The interesting thing here is claims of A8 already being in production. It is unlikely that the iPad will get revved already so the only machine I could see them going into is an uber AppleTV. On the other hand it wouldn't hurt Apple one bit to lap the competition and ship an A8 based iPad. A silent update could come at anytime. If the AppleTV is what I think it is, I could see that getting a big media event. What imagining is a high performance version of the current AppleTV that supports gaming, a video library and has a built in video projector.
This is very possible. Sadly depending upon which rumor you believe this could be close to next year. The other possibility is Haswell refresh which should come soon. Haswell refresh might be worth waiting for if Intel can significantly lower thermals thus allowing Apple to cram more performance into the box. I'm just not hearing about great strides in thermal performance with Haswell refresh. Knowing Apple they may see Haswell refresh as a way to get today's Haswells at a lower price.
When is the Haswell refresh planned for? June? This might be a factor for a quiet release. In October, my mini will be three years old, and I would like to replace it.
Interestingly I've yet to see a really bad report on GPU driver behavior in the new Mac Pros. I take this as a good sign that the extended development of this machine was worth the wait. Depends upon whom you believe but May / June seems to be the common time frames. Sadly there is nothing about the refresh that inspires. In fact the refresh from a technical standpoint is hardly worth waiting for. It really appears to be a stop gap measure due to the delay with Broadwell that was suppose to launch this year.
We can hope for new functionality or power points to better fit the Mini, but it is doubtful that the chips will be revved to that extent. At this point it looks like the same chips with 100 MHz faster clocks. 100 MHz is nothing in a 4GHz chip.
What is the rush? My MBP is now five years old. And yes it needs to be replaced. In any event I think you need to be prepared for the Mini going away at least in its current form. As time goes on it just seems like the future of the machine is more and more questionable.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple go AMD in the new iMac. You get better compute performance in many cases and more importantly they can share code with the Mac Pro. That and the fact hat I don't especially like NVidia has me hoping for this change.
They go back and forth depending on the offering. I'm really not surprised either way. In the case of the mac pro, AMD may have been more favorable in licensing terms. NVidia has a much more defined brand with their Quadros than AMD with the firepro name. It was also probably meant to be highly aligned with FCPX, as that alignment can be used to help maintain the required numbers over the longer term. It wouldn't a new strategy for Apple. They make their money off hardware, so they sink the cost of software wherever possible. It has worked out quite well for them.
It would have been most interesting to be a fly on the wall when Apple started discussions about their new Mac Pro concept with AMD and NVidia. I suspect AMD was more willing due to the need to extend credibility to their GPU line up. That and they need to make up for lackluster CPU advancements.
Beyond that it really looks like AMD have a shared vision with respect to GPU compute and how it will work in systems going forward. Im certain AMD learned much with this partnership.
That may be part of their strategy but Apple needs to broaden the Mac Pros horizons. If need be they ought to buy up a CAD house or two this to expand more into the different engineering fields.
Apple has a great platform in the Mac Pro but they really need to get more software vendors on board with native apps. Otherwise the platform remains a niche solution.
I don't follow GPUs like I use to, mainly because most of the discrete chips out there now are good enough for my needs. Integrated GPUs are right on the edge of being good enough also. Well at least until 4 K displays become affordable.
It would have been most interesting to be a fly on the wall when Apple started discussions about their new Mac Pro concept with AMD and NVidia. I suspect AMD was more willing due to the need to extend credibility to their GPU line up. That and they need to make up for lackluster CPU advancements.
4K should be fine at least by the next models. The 15" rmbp is advertised to support 4K, and its base model uses integrated graphics. It's just that there is a significant divide in terms of where diminishing returns kick in when comparing the majority of users to those who do things that really stress the gpu. Unfortunately I come across a lot of people spreading bad information as to what benefits what. I clear up what I can. It's annoying to see others suggest people strain their budgets on things that will will not be really meaningful or noticeable in their regular use, such as not budgeting for what should be essential peripherals due to their not being as exciting. I know you dislike NVidia, and that's fine. I would point out that they have historically spent a lot more on value added additions. Much like Apple they write software with little to no licensing fees to sell their hardware. That is part of how they're able to charge those markups. They did gimp the double precision math on some of their gaming gpus, which is annoying. It's a way of ensuring a certain minimum sale. I suspect AMD has less to lose when it comes to licensing their firepro brand. Quadro and Tesla cards account account for a huge percentage of NVidia's profits relative to their volume, which is fairly low. Marvin linked it once, but I can't find the link.
Beyond that it really looks like AMD have a shared vision with respect to GPU compute and how it will work in systems going forward. Im certain AMD learned much with this partnership.
That is entirely possible.
Quote:
That may be part of their strategy but Apple needs to broaden the Mac Pros horizons. If need be they ought to buy up a CAD house or two this to expand more into the different engineering fields.
Apple has a great platform in the Mac Pro but they really need to get more software vendors on board with native apps. Otherwise the platform remains a niche solution.
I am not the one to provide informed opinions about catia or autocad. I have some basic familiarity, just not enough to provide any meaningful insight. For example is it just