Perhaps Apple is deciding to drop the Mini from it's line.
The dead silence, the lack of rumors and the radical decline in desktop sales seem to indicate something is up. Poor desktop sales isn't just an Apple problem, the whole industry is suffering in that regard. I suspect Mini sales have declined as badly as Mac Pro sales have in the previous years. Like the Pro a refresh would help sales short term but long term the Mini doesn't have the niche that the Pro has. I can see Apple trying to refactor the machine one more time to try to shore up sales but if that doesn't work it will be history.
I'd love to see Apple take the "mini" part a bit further and make a Mac mini small enough to fit in your pocket (maybe half the current size). Then a person could take their home computer anywhere and plug into a TV or keyboard and monitor wherever they are.
Like the Pro a refresh would help sales short term but long term the Mini doesn't have the niche that the Pro has.
It doesn't have the price point either. The Mac Pro entry point is 5x higher than the Mini so even if it sells the same unit volume, the revenue is much higher with the Pro as well as the margins.
If the Mini is to get another update, they'd be best holding off for Haswell refresh in April. It probably won't be a huge update but it make sense to use the latest chips if the rest of the lineup will. If it's going to be killed off, they'll just keep selling it until the demand tails right off and it'll disappear.
If it does disappear, OS X server might not last very long but I could see them making an iOS Server product like the Apple TV but with an SSD in it and possibly room for an HDD. This would have a lower entry price than the Mini. To manage it would be like using a virtual machine.
The downside to not having a Mini is the possibility of losing switchers but most of their buyers are interested in laptops anyway. Owning a $599 Mini is hardly going to persuade them to buy a $999 Macbook Air, they'd just get the laptop in the first place.
If the Mini doesn't get a refresh by WWDC in June, it'll be a lot clearer that it's on the way out because they have no reason to hold it back beyond that point.
I'd love to see Apple take the "mini" part a bit further and make a Mac mini small enough to fit in your pocket (maybe half the current size). Then a person could take their home computer anywhere and plug into a TV or keyboard and monitor wherever they are.
Home on iPod without the iPod. Interesting. This would flip the Mini into the mobile category.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
If the Mini is to get another update, they'd be best holding off for Haswell refresh in April.
Thing is, Apple usually gets the chips a bit early, don't they? The refresh would be announced before the PC world had it.
It doesn't have the price point either. The Mac Pro entry point is 5x higher than the Mini so even if it sells the same unit volume, the revenue is much higher with the Pro as well as the margins.
That isn't a concern. Apple needs the right product line up high revenues or not.
If the Mini is to get another update, they'd be best holding off for Haswell refresh in April. It probably won't be a huge update but it make sense to use the latest chips if the rest of the lineup will. If it's going to be killed off, they'll just keep selling it until the demand tails right off and it'll disappear.
I could see them holding off until Broadwell to deliver a more radical machine update. They may or may not bump the machine between now and then.
If it does disappear, OS X server might not last very long but I could see them making an iOS Server product like the Apple TV but with an SSD in it and possibly room for an HDD. This would have a lower entry price than the Mini. To manage it would be like using a virtual machine.
Apple needs something passable as a server. It isn't just for traditional customers, Apples developer tools work well with a server.
The downside to not having a Mini is the possibility of losing switchers but most of their buyers are interested in laptops anyway. Owning a $599 Mini is hardly going to persuade them to buy a $999 Macbook Air, they'd just get the laptop in the first place.
Honestly I never saw the Mini as a machine that at tracks switchers. In any event you are right most people these days buy laptops. The only gotcha here of any sort is that the industry is actually adopting the small form factor machine in many offices. The Lenovo knock off is surprising popular in the corporate world right now.
If the Mini doesn't get a refresh by WWDC in June, it'll be a lot clearer that it's on the way out because they have no reason to hold it back beyond that point.
Well yeah in a sense that is correct but you still have the potential for a long shot Broadwell refactoring. If you think about it Broadwell was suppose to launch in quarter 2, so a new Mini replacement could have been scheduled for Q2. It appears that Intel screwed that up for Apple and everybody else. I'm just not sure how accurately the Intel delay is being reported in the trade press.
It is probably wishful thinking at this point but the idea that a major redesign is in the works seems plausible to me.
I'd love to see Apple take the "mini" part a bit further and make a Mac mini small enough to fit in your pocket (maybe half the current size). Then a person could take their home computer anywhere and plug into a TV or keyboard and monitor wherever they are.
I like the idea of building the Mini replacement right into a keyboard. It would be a bit retro but with today's chips it wouldn't suffer to badly performance wise.
Given that Apple still needs a desktop machine that can handle server type duties and professional use. Professional being that class of pros that don't really need the Mac Pro but could use something better than the current Mini.
Just give us god damn something. Stop with all iCrap for just five seconds and put some focus into something else. Haswell came out last year so the minis should have gotten an update. Simple as that, no excuses. Instead we get the iPad Air and the iPhone 5C.
Just give us god damn something. Stop with all iCrap for just five seconds and put some focus into something else. Haswell came out last year so the minis should have gotten an update. Simple as that, no excuses. Instead we get the iPad Air and the iPhone 5C.
The fact that an update to Haswell would have been simple kinda indicates to me that Apple has something else in the works It is certainly well past time for a normal update.
The fact that an update to Haswell would have been simple kinda indicates to me that Apple has something else in the works It is certainly well past time for a normal update.
I don't need bells or whistles you know although maybe Apple considers a PCIe SSD for the mini to be one of those two things. I am happy that the Mac Pro got an update.
The mini, IMHO, deserves T2, 4K ability (well, maybe not 3 screens worth) and, of course, faster dual and quad cores.
The current i5 is a bit lame for the money, if you ask me.
What is missing is the yawning headless gap between it and the Pro. I have a great monitor, and I don't like the idea of buying a new one, only to find in a few years that it is now shackled to a corpse of a motherboard.
The mini, IMHO, deserves T2, 4K ability (well, maybe not 3 screens worth) and, of course, faster dual and quad cores.
The current i5 is a bit lame for the money, if you ask me.
What is missing is the yawning headless gap between it and the Pro. I have a great monitor, and I don't like the idea of buying a new one, only to find in a few years that it is now shackled to a corpse of a motherboard.
That's why I feel it's Iris or nothing as far as dual cores go.
Iris is still significantly slower than the Iris pro in the quad chips. I'm curious what they'll do, as they moved to more costly cpu options in the macbook pros. For the last couple generations the mini has tracked the cpu choices of the 13 and 15" macbook pros fairly closely. It probably means less hardware to validate. I suspect that for their lower cost machines, they like to reuse engineering work wherever possible.
Iris is still significantly slower than the Iris pro in the quad chips. I'm curious what they'll do, as they moved to more costly cpu options in the macbook pros. For the last couple generations the mini has tracked the cpu choices of the 13 and 15" macbook pros fairly closely. It probably means less hardware to validate. I suspect that for their lower cost machines, they like to reuse engineering work wherever possible.
Oh no doubt but I don't want the HD 4600 in the machine I buy to replace my current mini. I asked this before but how much of an upgrade is there between the HD 3000 and the HD 4600, the 3000 and Iris 5100, and the HD 4600 and Iris 5100. Isn't there a decent difference between the 4600 and 5100?
That's why I feel it's Iris or nothing as far as dual cores go.
How do you feel about an ARM based Mini? It is becoming fairly clear that Apples ARM chips are highly capable and that Cyclone has far more potential than can be demonstrated in a cell phone. Given that Apple will likely have an A8 out this year with even better performance, it makes the idea plausible.
Iris is still significantly slower than the Iris pro in the quad chips.
Somewhat slower but a considerable step forward from previous years.
I'm curious what they'll do, as they moved to more costly cpu options in the macbook pros.
The smart move would be to wait for Intel chips that support DDR 4 RAM. If Haswell refresh brings us DDR4 RAM that would make for a nice Mini. The sad reality of all of these chips with integrated GPUs is that they are bandwidth limited, significantly faster RAM makes for better utilization of the hardware in the processor SoC.
For the last couple generations the mini has tracked the cpu choices of the 13 and 15" macbook pros fairly closely. It probably means less hardware to validate. I suspect that for their lower cost machines, they like to reuse engineering work wherever possible.
I suspect they where tired of customers complaining about the Minis high price an low performance. Unfortunately the Mini earned itself a bad reputation and many don't understand that it is a much better machine with the latest processors.
I could be wrong but I still think it is the end of the line for the Mini as we know it. Desktop sales in general have really tanked and the Mini has suffered along. I can see them offering an AppleTV like machine as an alternative for home users. That is a machine similar in concept to the Apple TV as we know it, that is a low cost platform, but with the ability to run apps along with a mix of Mini and AppleTV like functionality. I could see Apple offering a machine with 8GB of RAM, a high performance A8 and say 128GB of flash for $250.
Impossible you say. Well maybe not, if the machine is tied to ITunes and the App Store like ATV Apple can break even on the hardware and generate income from movies, apps and games. Frankly it would suck for those of us accustomed to unfettered access to their machines but for a generation of iPad users they might go all in. Hardware wise it is becoming very clear that Apples A7 is fully capable of driving such a machine and it only can be improved with A8. Imagine either chip running at say 2.5GHz instead of the current 1.6 GHz.
Of course in doing so Apple would turn the home computer market upside down. Income wouldn't be tied to hardware but rather software and services. Low end PC hardware wouldn't be able to compete.
In any event it is just an idea that floats through my head. I can see Apple possibly moving in many different directions, this is just one possibility. It is also a very home focused approach and shouldn't be confused with how they approach the professional markets.
Oh no doubt but I don't want the HD 4600 in the machine I buy to replace my current mini. I asked this before but how much of an upgrade is there between the HD 3000 and the HD 4600, the 3000 and Iris 5100, and the HD 4600 and Iris 5100. Isn't there a decent difference between the 4600 and 5100?
To that question your only recourse is the benchmarking sights! Even then you have to take numbers with a grain of salt. The problem with benchmarking is that the benchmarks don't often reflect real world use but rather raw performance. This is especially a problem with hardware supporting integrated graphics because of bandwidth limitations.
How do you feel about an ARM based Mini? It is becoming fairly clear that Apples ARM chips are highly capable and that Cyclone has far more potential than can be demonstrated in a cell phone. Given that Apple will likely have an A8 out this year with even better performance, it makes the idea plausible.
Not really too thrilled but if that's what they release and it's a fair price, I'll go for it.
Comments
The dead silence, the lack of rumors and the radical decline in desktop sales seem to indicate something is up. Poor desktop sales isn't just an Apple problem, the whole industry is suffering in that regard. I suspect Mini sales have declined as badly as Mac Pro sales have in the previous years. Like the Pro a refresh would help sales short term but long term the Mini doesn't have the niche that the Pro has. I can see Apple trying to refactor the machine one more time to try to shore up sales but if that doesn't work it will be history.
It doesn't have the price point either. The Mac Pro entry point is 5x higher than the Mini so even if it sells the same unit volume, the revenue is much higher with the Pro as well as the margins.
If the Mini is to get another update, they'd be best holding off for Haswell refresh in April. It probably won't be a huge update but it make sense to use the latest chips if the rest of the lineup will. If it's going to be killed off, they'll just keep selling it until the demand tails right off and it'll disappear.
If it does disappear, OS X server might not last very long but I could see them making an iOS Server product like the Apple TV but with an SSD in it and possibly room for an HDD. This would have a lower entry price than the Mini. To manage it would be like using a virtual machine.
The downside to not having a Mini is the possibility of losing switchers but most of their buyers are interested in laptops anyway. Owning a $599 Mini is hardly going to persuade them to buy a $999 Macbook Air, they'd just get the laptop in the first place.
If the Mini doesn't get a refresh by WWDC in June, it'll be a lot clearer that it's on the way out because they have no reason to hold it back beyond that point.
I'd love to see Apple take the "mini" part a bit further and make a Mac mini small enough to fit in your pocket (maybe half the current size). Then a person could take their home computer anywhere and plug into a TV or keyboard and monitor wherever they are.
Home on iPod without the iPod. Interesting. This would flip the Mini into the mobile category.
If the Mini is to get another update, they'd be best holding off for Haswell refresh in April.
Thing is, Apple usually gets the chips a bit early, don't they? The refresh would be announced before the PC world had it.
Well yeah in a sense that is correct but you still have the potential for a long shot Broadwell refactoring. If you think about it Broadwell was suppose to launch in quarter 2, so a new Mini replacement could have been scheduled for Q2. It appears that Intel screwed that up for Apple and everybody else. I'm just not sure how accurately the Intel delay is being reported in the trade press.
It is probably wishful thinking at this point but the idea that a major redesign is in the works seems plausible to me.
I like the idea of building the Mini replacement right into a keyboard. It would be a bit retro but with today's chips it wouldn't suffer to badly performance wise.
Given that Apple still needs a desktop machine that can handle server type duties and professional use. Professional being that class of pros that don't really need the Mac Pro but could use something better than the current Mini.
The fact that an update to Haswell would have been simple kinda indicates to me that Apple has something else in the works It is certainly well past time for a normal update.
I don't need bells or whistles you know although maybe Apple considers a PCIe SSD for the mini to be one of those two things. I am happy that the Mac Pro got an update.
The current i5 is a bit lame for the money, if you ask me.
What is missing is the yawning headless gap between it and the Pro. I have a great monitor, and I don't like the idea of buying a new one, only to find in a few years that it is now shackled to a corpse of a motherboard.
That's why I feel it's Iris or nothing as far as dual cores go.
Iris is still significantly slower than the Iris pro in the quad chips. I'm curious what they'll do, as they moved to more costly cpu options in the macbook pros. For the last couple generations the mini has tracked the cpu choices of the 13 and 15" macbook pros fairly closely. It probably means less hardware to validate. I suspect that for their lower cost machines, they like to reuse engineering work wherever possible.
Oh no doubt but I don't want the HD 4600 in the machine I buy to replace my current mini. I asked this before but how much of an upgrade is there between the HD 3000 and the HD 4600, the 3000 and Iris 5100, and the HD 4600 and Iris 5100. Isn't there a decent difference between the 4600 and 5100?
How do you feel about an ARM based Mini? It is becoming fairly clear that Apples ARM chips are highly capable and that Cyclone has far more potential than can be demonstrated in a cell phone. Given that Apple will likely have an A8 out this year with even better performance, it makes the idea plausible.
I could be wrong but I still think it is the end of the line for the Mini as we know it. Desktop sales in general have really tanked and the Mini has suffered along. I can see them offering an AppleTV like machine as an alternative for home users. That is a machine similar in concept to the Apple TV as we know it, that is a low cost platform, but with the ability to run apps along with a mix of Mini and AppleTV like functionality. I could see Apple offering a machine with 8GB of RAM, a high performance A8 and say 128GB of flash for $250.
Impossible you say. Well maybe not, if the machine is tied to ITunes and the App Store like ATV Apple can break even on the hardware and generate income from movies, apps and games. Frankly it would suck for those of us accustomed to unfettered access to their machines but for a generation of iPad users they might go all in. Hardware wise it is becoming very clear that Apples A7 is fully capable of driving such a machine and it only can be improved with A8. Imagine either chip running at say 2.5GHz instead of the current 1.6 GHz.
Of course in doing so Apple would turn the home computer market upside down. Income wouldn't be tied to hardware but rather software and services. Low end PC hardware wouldn't be able to compete.
In any event it is just an idea that floats through my head. I can see Apple possibly moving in many different directions, this is just one possibility. It is also a very home focused approach and shouldn't be confused with how they approach the professional markets.
To that question your only recourse is the benchmarking sights! Even then you have to take numbers with a grain of salt. The problem with benchmarking is that the benchmarks don't often reflect real world use but rather raw performance. This is especially a problem with hardware supporting integrated graphics because of bandwidth limitations.
Not really too thrilled but if that's what they release and it's a fair price, I'll go for it.
Good thinking on your part.
Well we're in April and still have yet to see a Mac hardware release for the year.
Is everything going to be shoehorned into the last few months of the year, like in 2013?
If Apple had silently updated the Mini last fall with the other Macs, how would that have interfered with this (apparent) coming redesign?
At this point, I think Apple is just starving the market so when the new machine comes out they can claim impressive first-day sale numbers.