I'm kind of hoping there's more to this. There was a rumour some time ago that Ive was angry with Jobs because Jobs failed to acknowledge Ive's contribution to iPhone. Supposedly the whole touch device thing started as a project in Ive's lab (there's something about this in Isaacson's book too). What I'm wondering is whether Ive actually has a particular vision of where to take iOS and Forstall was opposed to it, preferring something more conservative, and that was the source of the antagonism between them. Pure speculation, but I really hope there's more to this than just whether apps should have fake leather and wood effects in them.
We'll never know the full story or truth. I wouldn't worry about it. Just relax & have a beer.
How Jony does things going forward will be absolutely crucial to the future of Apple.
Yes, yellow leather and 18 gauge thread (that's 120 for Europeans) wasn't the best idea. Windows 8 is a worse idea.
I have a hard time with the complaints about stitched leather. It's just not that big a deal. It doesn't add much, but it doesn't detract. How is the calendar an less usable because of the leather?
I have a hard time with the complaints about stitched leather. It's just not that big a deal. It doesn't add much, but it doesn't detract. How is the calendar an less usable because of the leather?
People make too big a deal out of silly things.
You know, I don't mind it either. Calendar on OS X doesn't even have the stitching, which makes it subtle like Notes. Nice and simple.
Jonny is the new Steve Jobs of Apple, or at least the closest thing we are going to see. Steve is gone, we have to accept that. Forstall was giving us modern versions of Microsoft Bob from 1995. Leather calendars are not tangible. You cannot feel them so it makes no sense to design a computer calendar around an old item which shows Forstalls age. The next generation of Apple users don't know what a leather calendar is, or a felt pool table.
I truly believed in this guy, until the iPhone 5, which looks like a Frankenshit. Just awful design on the back, with the glass/metal/glass look.
I have a white version and it's gorgeous the way light reflects off of the bezel. It's so light and fast I can't believe it's been 5 years since the original. Don't agree.
Jonny is the new Steve Jobs of Apple, or at least the closest thing we are going to see. Steve is gone, we have to accept that. Forstall was giving us modern versions of Microsoft Bob from 1995. Leather calendars are not tangible. You cannot feel them so it makes no sense to design a computer calendar around an old item which shows Forstalls age. The next generation of Apple users don't know what a leather calendar is, or a felt pool table.
Not sure where I read, must've been in Isaacson's book, but Steve Jobs did say Jonny Ive was his "spiritual successor."
I have a white version and it's gorgeous the way light reflects off of the bezel. It's so light and fast I can't believe it's been 5 years since the original. Don't agree.
I just got finished buying some Skype time on their website.
God forbid I'd be able to do that, you know, in the Skype app itself ....
Anyhoo, the Skype website has gone Windows8 wholehog.
It looks really, really clean & easy to use -- in other words, very Apple-esque.
Now if Jony is allowed free reign over iOS's look/feel, then this can only be a good thing.
I just hope that his new workload doesn't distract & takeway from his hardware brilliance.
Considering Skype is owned by MS, I'm not surprised. I would love to see Apple scrap Facetime and develop a full-on Skype competitor and call it....get this...iChat
A really good move, considering the amount of junk that is getting into iOS especially when that doesnt work everywhere. Probably the real post steve jobs era has begun now. As always we will have to wait and see what the future holds.
...what is proper and acceptable in English in 2012.
An increasing number of English words and their "new" uses have become acceptable this century... but it does not necessarily make them proper. On your side of the pond more and more photographers are writing "lense" when describing a "lens" (singular)... so much so it has become acceptable, although it is neither proper nor correct. Let's just hope, in order to keep this "on thread", that Jony Ive will uphold standards... but of course, he is a Brit ;~)
PS: My feeling is that in fifty years time historians might look back and declare that the universal use of Twitter put the final nail in the lid of the coffin burying proper English.
I like the idea of the look of the OS matching the hardware (like Aqua originally did with the Bondi iMac), but obviously design is about far more than just a colour scheme.
More important is intuitive things like using drag and drop in the right place, or pinch to zoom etc, where the human interface is so intuitive it just disappears. But some apps have so much functionality, e.g. 200 different menu functions, that there just isn't an intuitive gesture (or place to click etc.) for every one of them, or is there?!
And there are some who argue that human beings work more quickly with words, so trying to make everything graphical is wrong-headed, i.e. a word can represent an abstract concept, but as soon as you try to draw it you are forced to concretise the concept to some particular instance or another, which is then misleading about what the button does.
And the whole idea of buttons, sliders etc is a control panel metaphor, that goes back to before monitors. People used to have banks of controls and then monitors were invented, and they just drew the same old controls on the monitor! That seems like it needs a rethink.
There is never going to be a single design language that will please everyone out there, and with the sheer amount of users iOS has, there will always be a huge number of vocal critics, no matter which direction they head into.
As for minimalism, I dont see how much more minimal iOS can get without looking like the sea of white that are google apps, or massive text over solid colors that is Win8 design style. Its pretty minimal as is, and apart from a couple textures in some apps (which I dont mind in the least, gives some personality and some differentiation) theres nothing thats there that doesnt need to be there.
Oh, and Ill be pissed if Ive takes away my woodgrain bookshelf. Dont get the hate about that, its the most gorgeous app on iOS or anywhere. What the **** would people prefer, a text list? Its beautiful and functional.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke
I'm kind of hoping there's more to this. There was a rumour some time ago that Ive was angry with Jobs because Jobs failed to acknowledge Ive's contribution to iPhone. Supposedly the whole touch device thing started as a project in Ive's lab (there's something about this in Isaacson's book too). What I'm wondering is whether Ive actually has a particular vision of where to take iOS and Forstall was opposed to it, preferring something more conservative, and that was the source of the antagonism between them. Pure speculation, but I really hope there's more to this than just whether apps should have fake leather and wood effects in them.
We'll never know the full story or truth. I wouldn't worry about it. Just relax & have a beer.
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji
We'll never know the full story or truth.
Guess we'll have to wait for the biography to almost tell us half of what sort of happened.
Originally Posted by vaultboy
I truly believed in this guy, until the iPhone 5, which looks like a Frankenshit. Just awful design on the back, with the glass/metal/glass look.
I just realized I'm going to have to scrap my Scott Forstall reaction images. And he had such good expressions, too…
I have a hard time with the complaints about stitched leather. It's just not that big a deal. It doesn't add much, but it doesn't detract. How is the calendar an less usable because of the leather?
People make too big a deal out of silly things.
Originally Posted by jragosta
I have a hard time with the complaints about stitched leather. It's just not that big a deal. It doesn't add much, but it doesn't detract. How is the calendar an less usable because of the leather?
People make too big a deal out of silly things.
You know, I don't mind it either. Calendar on OS X doesn't even have the stitching, which makes it subtle like Notes. Nice and simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaultboy
I truly believed in this guy, until the iPhone 5, which looks like a Frankenshit. Just awful design on the back, with the glass/metal/glass look.
I have a white version and it's gorgeous the way light reflects off of the bezel. It's so light and fast I can't believe it's been 5 years since the original. Don't agree.
I just got finished buying some Skype time on their website.
God forbid I'd be able to do that, you know, in the Skype app itself ....
Anyhoo, the Skype website has gone Windows8 wholehog.
It looks really, really clean & easy to use -- in other words, very Apple-esque.
Now if Jony is allowed free reign over iOS's look/feel, then this can only be a good thing.
I just hope that his new workload doesn't distract & takeway from his hardware brilliance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
Jonny is the new Steve Jobs of Apple, or at least the closest thing we are going to see. Steve is gone, we have to accept that. Forstall was giving us modern versions of Microsoft Bob from 1995. Leather calendars are not tangible. You cannot feel them so it makes no sense to design a computer calendar around an old item which shows Forstalls age. The next generation of Apple users don't know what a leather calendar is, or a felt pool table.
Not sure where I read, must've been in Isaacson's book, but Steve Jobs did say Jonny Ive was his "spiritual successor."
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
I have a white version and it's gorgeous the way light reflects off of the bezel. It's so light and fast I can't believe it's been 5 years since the original. Don't agree.
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
I certainly hope so.
I just got finished buying some Skype time on their website.
God forbid I'd be able to do that, you know, in the Skype app itself ....
Anyhoo, the Skype website has gone Windows8 wholehog.
It looks really, really clean & easy to use -- in other words, very Apple-esque.
Now if Jony is allowed free reign over iOS's look/feel, then this can only be a good thing.
I just hope that his new workload doesn't distract & takeway from his hardware brilliance.
Considering Skype is owned by MS, I'm not surprised. I would love to see Apple scrap Facetime and develop a full-on Skype competitor and call it....get this...iChat
A really good move, considering the amount of junk that is getting into iOS especially when that doesnt work everywhere. Probably the real post steve jobs era has begun now. As always we will have to wait and see what the future holds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
By the way, does this mean Forstall answers to Jony now?
Forstall answers to God now. Read the news page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard
Forstall answers to God now. Read the news page.
Holy shit, Steve Jobs is alive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Snip
...what is proper and acceptable in English in 2012.
An increasing number of English words and their "new" uses have become acceptable this century... but it does not necessarily make them proper. On your side of the pond more and more photographers are writing "lense" when describing a "lens" (singular)... so much so it has become acceptable, although it is neither proper nor correct. Let's just hope, in order to keep this "on thread", that Jony Ive will uphold standards... but of course, he is a Brit ;~)
PS: My feeling is that in fifty years time historians might look back and declare that the universal use of Twitter put the final nail in the lid of the coffin burying proper English.
I like the idea of the look of the OS matching the hardware (like Aqua originally did with the Bondi iMac), but obviously design is about far more than just a colour scheme.
More important is intuitive things like using drag and drop in the right place, or pinch to zoom etc, where the human interface is so intuitive it just disappears. But some apps have so much functionality, e.g. 200 different menu functions, that there just isn't an intuitive gesture (or place to click etc.) for every one of them, or is there?!
And there are some who argue that human beings work more quickly with words, so trying to make everything graphical is wrong-headed, i.e. a word can represent an abstract concept, but as soon as you try to draw it you are forced to concretise the concept to some particular instance or another, which is then misleading about what the button does.
And the whole idea of buttons, sliders etc is a control panel metaphor, that goes back to before monitors. People used to have banks of controls and then monitors were invented, and they just drew the same old controls on the monitor! That seems like it needs a rethink.
As for minimalism, I dont see how much more minimal iOS can get without looking like the sea of white that are google apps, or massive text over solid colors that is Win8 design style. Its pretty minimal as is, and apart from a couple textures in some apps (which I dont mind in the least, gives some personality and some differentiation) theres nothing thats there that doesnt need to be there.
Oh, and Ill be pissed if Ive takes away my woodgrain bookshelf. Dont get the hate about that, its the most gorgeous app on iOS or anywhere. What the **** would people prefer, a text list? Its beautiful and functional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You know, I don't mind it either. Calendar on OS X doesn't even have the stitching, which makes it subtle like Notes. Nice and simple.
The only problem I have with it is that it has encouraged the tedious use of the word 'skeuomorphism' all over the blogosphere.