I certainly hope so.
I just got finished buying some Skype time on their website.
God forbid I'd be able to do that, you know, in the Skype app itself ....
Anyhoo, the Skype website has gone Windows8 wholehog.
It looks really, really clean & easy to use -- in other words, very Apple-esque.
I'm unsure what website you are referring to, I just tried the Skype site, it's a disaster of design.
I think iWeb is a missed opportunity too. It had (has?) the potential to be a standard, a perfect fit in the iLife suite and with the potential to develop into a pro version. What better way to push the HTML5 standard than to produce a classy Apple app that gets the masses using it?
The problem here is that I don't suspect that "the masses" are sitting around creating websites. Not so much because they can't or don't have cool and easy to use tools such as iWeb, but because they don't want or care to. I suspect that the extent of personal, consumer web publishing is handled through things like Facebook, Pinterest and Twitter.
So iWeb was a solution looking for a problem (at least in the consumer space.)
As for a professional version...sure that would have been a good route to go, but It's not Apple's focus much anymore, and that's fine. In fact I wouldn't at all be surprised to find Apple get out of the professional apps business altogether. It would be nice if they spun it off (a la Claris in the old days) and, hopefully, it would be sustainable on its own. I do think Apple probably needs to streamline and focus a bit in software.
There is never going to be a single design language that will please everyone out there, and with the sheer amount of users iOS has, there will always be a huge number of vocal critics, no matter which direction they head into.
As for minimalism, I dont see how much more minimal iOS can get without looking like the sea of white that are google apps, or massive text over solid colors that is Win8 design style. Its pretty minimal as is, and apart from a couple textures in some apps (which I dont mind in the least, gives some personality and some differentiation) theres nothing thats there that doesnt need to be there.
Oh, and Ill be pissed if Ive takes away my woodgrain bookshelf. Dont get the hate about that, its the most gorgeous app on iOS or anywhere. What the **** would people prefer, a text list? Its beautiful and functional.
Like it or not, Apple's iOS apps like Podcasts are also an important part of the OS, and that app is a complete disaster. The dialler in iOS 6 is a disaster. And the colour-changing status bar is ug-lee! Game Centre? There's a lot of work to do. Notes too, IMO. Also, Notes and iCloud have issues, serious issues.
On Transatlantic language wrangles: one I really don't get is 'I could care less'. What does that mean exactly? 'I could not care less' makes sense, it means the matter has no relevance to you, but 'could care less' ?
I have a hard time with the complaints about stitched leather. It's just not that big a deal. It doesn't add much, but it doesn't detract. How is the calendar an less usable because of the leather?
People make too big a deal out of silly things.
I think the key issue with this stitched leather, and other similar design efforts, is that its design and implementation took away from adding and improving functionality. From what I've read (rumors all, of course) is these kind of decisions was an important source of friction between Forstall and Ive.
Oh I see. So if I say what I don't mean it doesn't mean that I don't mean what I do say. But does that mean I mean it or not? Time to put Jony Ive in charge of the English language I reckon!
I think iWeb is a missed opportunity too. It had (has?) the potential to be a standard, a perfect fit in the iLife suite and with the potential to develop into a pro version. What better way to push the HTML5 standard than to produce a classy Apple app that gets the masses using it? Generally speaking, it seems to me that the software side at Apple doesn't get the love it once did, whether Jony at the helm of HIG improves the situation time will tell.
On Transatlantic language wrangles: one I really don't get is 'I could care less'. What does that mean exactly? 'I could not care less' makes sense, it means the matter has no relevance to you, but 'could care less' ?
could [not] care less == [in]flammible
... Now, with not non-inflammable... There's a real question...
Yeah, I fall into that camp. I admit to being a little nervous about what Ive might do with interface design because his direction in hardware, while aesthetically remarkable, is leaning towards form over function, sometimes sacrificing performance to achieve prettiness. Making things pretty is fine, but making tools less productive strikes me as a bad idea. In cases where the goals of performance and pretty conflict, I'd prefer the former be given priority.
And you're right, I do NOT understand why the thinner iMac is supposedly a "valuable design concept." I'd LIKE to, but I don't really understand the benefit. Can you explain it to me?
Agreed. For each new product announcement, 50% of the PR is how incredibly thin it is. What is the point? The thinness is an engineering marvel; I get that. I'm might be just a clod, but I would not have been able to tell the difference if it wasn't pointed out to me.
"Could care less" is not a sarcastic inversion. "Cheap at half the price" is a sarcastic inversion. It's opposite the expected on purpose to make a comedic point. "Could care less" doesn't make any sense that way (or ANY way). It's just another example of people being too stupid to think about what they're saying.
Both are not correct. One is correct, the other is a total obfuscation of meaning.
But getting back to the topic, I hope Ive lets us have coloured icons again. I realize they're not as elegant looking as a monochromatic window but they really do reduce errors and increase working speed.
I love OSX now for the most part. I think putting Jony in charge is a great idea. I know he loves minimalism so I hope he doesn't go the way of Windows 8 for OSX. There has to be some beauty in the interface and Windows 8 looks horrid on a desktop and it does not look intuitive for a mouse interface. For a mobile device which uses a touch interface only, it's probably fine. Either way, I think Jony has what it takes. Congrats Mr. Ive.
Jonny is the new Steve Jobs of Apple, or at least the closest thing we are going to see. Steve is gone, we have to accept that. Forstall was giving us modern versions of Microsoft Bob from 1995. Leather calendars are not tangible. You cannot feel them so it makes no sense to design a computer calendar around an old item which shows Forstalls age. The next generation of Apple users don't know what a leather calendar is, or a felt pool table.
I think it's an even better situation than that. Perviously, SJ was the arbiter of taste at Apple, but he was picking designs from at least 2 different groups. By making JI the arbiter of taste, and head of all the design, hardware and software, the lines between hardware and software are likely to become even more blurred, the devices and software even more tightly integrated. A very smart move on Tim Cook's part.
An increasing number of English words and their "new" uses have become acceptable this century... but it does not necessarily make them proper. On your side of the pond more and more photographers are writing "lense" when describing a "lens" (singular)... so much so it has become acceptable, although it is neither proper nor correct. Let's just hope, in order to keep this "on thread", that Jony Ive will uphold standards... but of course, he is a Brit ;~)
PS: My feeling is that in fifty years time historians might look back and declare that the universal use of Twitter put the final nail in the lid of the coffin burying proper English.
English has been an evolving language for hundreds of years. Look at a piece of literature from 1950 and compare it something from 1850 or 1750 or 1650. There is no "canonical" form of English that is set in stone. It is arguable that the greatest work in English literature, the King James Bible, doesn't sound anything like "proper" English. Spellings, phrases, and rules change pretty much every couple of generations. Deal with it!
I think it's an even better situation than that. Perviously, SJ was the arbiter of taste at Apple, but he was picking designs from at least 2 different groups. By making JI the arbiter of taste, and head of all the design, hardware and software, the lines between hardware and software are likely to become even more blurred, the devices and software even more tightly integrated. A very smart move on Tim Cook's part.
I think you've nailed it. Plus, I actually think Ive's style and taste are probably better than Jobs. Jobs was good at pushing people and sometimes pushing for "unreasonable" things that ended up becoming new minimum standards. His taste and style were good. He had an intuitive sense. But he was also often wrong (Sunflower Mac anyone?) Ive has the schooling and training and professional discipline to do all of it even better.
The unified look does have a subtle brushed aluminum texture, matching current hardware...
I don't particularly mind that some apps look unique. My notepad looks like a notepad? Makes sense! I'm all for consistent guidelines, but if my system is nothing but identical grey boxes, finding what I need takes a little longer. Remember, it's all about usability, not just for tech-heads but for everyone. If you personally find a leather titlebar so offensive, there's about a thousand 3rd party apps you can use instead.
SolipsismX
A little googling would have helped you here. Both the words champ and chomp mean the same thing in this case just as at and on can both mean the location of something. I could tell you the original phrase but an imitative term dating back as far as 1520 has absolutely no baring on what is proper and acceptable in English in 2012.
Bearing. And yes, I hate to be that guy...
ascii
And there are some who argue that human beings work more quickly with words, so trying to make everything graphical is wrong-headed, i.e. a word can represent an abstract concept, but as soon as you try to draw it you are forced to concretise the concept to some particular instance or another, which is then misleading about what the button does.
And the whole idea of buttons, sliders etc is a control panel metaphor, that goes back to before monitors. People used to have banks of controls and then monitors were invented, and they just drew the same old controls on the monitor! That seems like it needs a rethink.
The only misleading button I can think of is old style 'Save' icons being floppy discs, but Apple has automated that functionality, removing the need for a button. More to the point, well-made icons can greatly aid comprehension and speed of operation, especially for the language impaired. Apple products have a terrific track record among the extremely young, old, and disabled, due in no small part to being easy to understand.
Ireland
The dialler in iOS 6 is a disaster. And the colour-changing status bar is ug-lee! Game Centre? There's a lot of work to do. Notes too, IMO. Also, Notes and iCloud have issues, serious issues.
A little googling would have helped you here. Both the words champ and chomp mean the same thing in this case just as at and on can both mean the location of something. I could tell you the original phrase but an imitative term dating back as far as 1520 has absolutely no baring on what is proper and acceptable in English in 2012.
Yes, as long as you don't mix up 'chomp' and 'chop', you'll be fine.
I don't particularly mind that some apps look unique. My notepad looks like a notepad? Makes sense! I'm all for consistent guidelines, but if my system is nothing but identical grey boxes, finding what I need takes a little longer.
Remember that "consistency" doesn't necessarily mean "same."
I would like to see a couple things evolve from this management change:
The creation and articulation of a consistent vision and a philosophy about how software UI will be done. This is higher level than, but should lead to and result in guidelines, standards and rules to increasing levels of detail as appropriate.
The development of a consistent visual design language for the UI across all products, apps and hardware. Something that respects each.
Personally I hope this will include less UI "flourish" or "bling" (or UI "masturbation" as one critic put it.)
Personally I'd start to get rid of some of the so-called skeuomorphism, the sometimes excessively rounded corners and over use of the faux-reflective "glass" surface.
On the other hand the monochromatic stuff may have gone too far the other way.
In the end, I hope there's a trend toward starting with the purpose and goal of the UI/app/software and building out from there.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
In other words, Ive is now second in command at Apple.
Notwithstanding Cook, Apple is now Ive's baby.
Don't fool yourself.. Cook has really been showing who the boss is.
I just hope that Ive does not even think about getting on Cook's way to world domination...
*and down the stock goes... But by how much?
lucky besterds, another buying opportunity. but 600 a share? i don't have enough money to buy one single share.. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by allblue
I think iWeb is a missed opportunity too. It had (has?) the potential to be a standard, a perfect fit in the iLife suite and with the potential to develop into a pro version. What better way to push the HTML5 standard than to produce a classy Apple app that gets the masses using it?
The problem here is that I don't suspect that "the masses" are sitting around creating websites. Not so much because they can't or don't have cool and easy to use tools such as iWeb, but because they don't want or care to. I suspect that the extent of personal, consumer web publishing is handled through things like Facebook, Pinterest and Twitter.
So iWeb was a solution looking for a problem (at least in the consumer space.)
As for a professional version...sure that would have been a good route to go, but It's not Apple's focus much anymore, and that's fine. In fact I wouldn't at all be surprised to find Apple get out of the professional apps business altogether. It would be nice if they spun it off (a la Claris in the old days) and, hopefully, it would be sustainable on its own. I do think Apple probably needs to streamline and focus a bit in software.
Like it or not, Apple's iOS apps like Podcasts are also an important part of the OS, and that app is a complete disaster. The dialler in iOS 6 is a disaster. And the colour-changing status bar is ug-lee! Game Centre? There's a lot of work to do. Notes too, IMO. Also, Notes and iCloud have issues, serious issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack
**** yeah!
Mind your language. That kind of spake is only acceptable in Bleed'n Dublin
Groan. Just look it up. Sarcastic inversions.
Both are correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I have a hard time with the complaints about stitched leather. It's just not that big a deal. It doesn't add much, but it doesn't detract. How is the calendar an less usable because of the leather?
People make too big a deal out of silly things.
I think the key issue with this stitched leather, and other similar design efforts, is that its design and implementation took away from adding and improving functionality. From what I've read (rumors all, of course) is these kind of decisions was an important source of friction between Forstall and Ive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Groan. Just look it up. Sarcastic inversions.
Both are correct.
Oh I see. So if I say what I don't mean it doesn't mean that I don't mean what I do say. But does that mean I mean it or not? Time to put Jony Ive in charge of the English language I reckon!
could [not] care less == [in]flammible
... Now, with not non-inflammable... There's a real question...
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
Yeah, I fall into that camp. I admit to being a little nervous about what Ive might do with interface design because his direction in hardware, while aesthetically remarkable, is leaning towards form over function, sometimes sacrificing performance to achieve prettiness. Making things pretty is fine, but making tools less productive strikes me as a bad idea. In cases where the goals of performance and pretty conflict, I'd prefer the former be given priority.
And you're right, I do NOT understand why the thinner iMac is supposedly a "valuable design concept." I'd LIKE to, but I don't really understand the benefit. Can you explain it to me?
Agreed. For each new product announcement, 50% of the PR is how incredibly thin it is. What is the point? The thinness is an engineering marvel; I get that. I'm might be just a clod, but I would not have been able to tell the difference if it wasn't pointed out to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Groan. Just look it up. Sarcastic inversions.
Both are correct.
"Could care less" is not a sarcastic inversion. "Cheap at half the price" is a sarcastic inversion. It's opposite the expected on purpose to make a comedic point. "Could care less" doesn't make any sense that way (or ANY way). It's just another example of people being too stupid to think about what they're saying.
Both are not correct. One is correct, the other is a total obfuscation of meaning.
But getting back to the topic, I hope Ive lets us have coloured icons again. I realize they're not as elegant looking as a monochromatic window but they really do reduce errors and increase working speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
could [not] care less == [in]flammible
... Now, with not non-inflammable... There's a real question...
Mods! He's flaming!
In Jony we trust.
I love OSX now for the most part. I think putting Jony in charge is a great idea. I know he loves minimalism so I hope he doesn't go the way of Windows 8 for OSX. There has to be some beauty in the interface and Windows 8 looks horrid on a desktop and it does not look intuitive for a mouse interface. For a mobile device which uses a touch interface only, it's probably fine. Either way, I think Jony has what it takes. Congrats Mr. Ive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
Jonny is the new Steve Jobs of Apple, or at least the closest thing we are going to see. Steve is gone, we have to accept that. Forstall was giving us modern versions of Microsoft Bob from 1995. Leather calendars are not tangible. You cannot feel them so it makes no sense to design a computer calendar around an old item which shows Forstalls age. The next generation of Apple users don't know what a leather calendar is, or a felt pool table.
I think it's an even better situation than that. Perviously, SJ was the arbiter of taste at Apple, but he was picking designs from at least 2 different groups. By making JI the arbiter of taste, and head of all the design, hardware and software, the lines between hardware and software are likely to become even more blurred, the devices and software even more tightly integrated. A very smart move on Tim Cook's part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotoformat
An increasing number of English words and their "new" uses have become acceptable this century... but it does not necessarily make them proper. On your side of the pond more and more photographers are writing "lense" when describing a "lens" (singular)... so much so it has become acceptable, although it is neither proper nor correct. Let's just hope, in order to keep this "on thread", that Jony Ive will uphold standards... but of course, he is a Brit ;~)
PS: My feeling is that in fifty years time historians might look back and declare that the universal use of Twitter put the final nail in the lid of the coffin burying proper English.
English has been an evolving language for hundreds of years. Look at a piece of literature from 1950 and compare it something from 1850 or 1750 or 1650. There is no "canonical" form of English that is set in stone. It is arguable that the greatest work in English literature, the King James Bible, doesn't sound anything like "proper" English. Spellings, phrases, and rules change pretty much every couple of generations. Deal with it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
I think it's an even better situation than that. Perviously, SJ was the arbiter of taste at Apple, but he was picking designs from at least 2 different groups. By making JI the arbiter of taste, and head of all the design, hardware and software, the lines between hardware and software are likely to become even more blurred, the devices and software even more tightly integrated. A very smart move on Tim Cook's part.
I think you've nailed it. Plus, I actually think Ive's style and taste are probably better than Jobs. Jobs was good at pushing people and sometimes pushing for "unreasonable" things that ended up becoming new minimum standards. His taste and style were good. He had an intuitive sense. But he was also often wrong (Sunflower Mac anyone?) Ive has the schooling and training and professional discipline to do all of it even better.
The unified look does have a subtle brushed aluminum texture, matching current hardware...
I don't particularly mind that some apps look unique. My notepad looks like a notepad? Makes sense! I'm all for consistent guidelines, but if my system is nothing but identical grey boxes, finding what I need takes a little longer. Remember, it's all about usability, not just for tech-heads but for everyone. If you personally find a leather titlebar so offensive, there's about a thousand 3rd party apps you can use instead.
SolipsismX
A little googling would have helped you here. Both the words champ and chomp mean the same thing in this case just as at and on can both mean the location of something. I could tell you the original phrase but an imitative term dating back as far as 1520 has absolutely no baring on what is proper and acceptable in English in 2012.
Bearing. And yes, I hate to be that guy...
ascii
And there are some who argue that human beings work more quickly with words, so trying to make everything graphical is wrong-headed, i.e. a word can represent an abstract concept, but as soon as you try to draw it you are forced to concretise the concept to some particular instance or another, which is then misleading about what the button does.
And the whole idea of buttons, sliders etc is a control panel metaphor, that goes back to before monitors. People used to have banks of controls and then monitors were invented, and they just drew the same old controls on the monitor! That seems like it needs a rethink.
The only misleading button I can think of is old style 'Save' icons being floppy discs, but Apple has automated that functionality, removing the need for a button. More to the point, well-made icons can greatly aid comprehension and speed of operation, especially for the language impaired. Apple products have a terrific track record among the extremely young, old, and disabled, due in no small part to being easy to understand.
Ireland
The dialler in iOS 6 is a disaster. And the colour-changing status bar is ug-lee! Game Centre? There's a lot of work to do. Notes too, IMO. Also, Notes and iCloud have issues, serious issues.
Dialer. Also, why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
A little googling would have helped you here. Both the words champ and chomp mean the same thing in this case just as at and on can both mean the location of something. I could tell you the original phrase but an imitative term dating back as far as 1520 has absolutely no baring on what is proper and acceptable in English in 2012.
Yes, as long as you don't mix up 'chomp' and 'chop', you'll be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos
I don't particularly mind that some apps look unique. My notepad looks like a notepad? Makes sense! I'm all for consistent guidelines, but if my system is nothing but identical grey boxes, finding what I need takes a little longer.
Remember that "consistency" doesn't necessarily mean "same."
I would like to see a couple things evolve from this management change:
The creation and articulation of a consistent vision and a philosophy about how software UI will be done. This is higher level than, but should lead to and result in guidelines, standards and rules to increasing levels of detail as appropriate.
The development of a consistent visual design language for the UI across all products, apps and hardware. Something that respects each.
Personally I hope this will include less UI "flourish" or "bling" (or UI "masturbation" as one critic put it.)
Personally I'd start to get rid of some of the so-called skeuomorphism, the sometimes excessively rounded corners and over use of the faux-reflective "glass" surface.
On the other hand the monochromatic stuff may have gone too far the other way.
In the end, I hope there's a trend toward starting with the purpose and goal of the UI/app/software and building out from there.