Jony Ive expected to replace iOS, OS X textures with clean edges & flat surfaces

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  • Reply 121 of 198
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    I love all this projection of what people think Ive is going to do when in reality we have no idea what his plans are and when we'll start to see his influence in software. :rolleyes:
  • Reply 122 of 198
    pt123pt123 Posts: 696member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


     


    It's thin because optical drives are dead and people want thinner, lighter hardware, even when it comes to desktop computers. The new iMac is cool. And cool is nice to look at, and nice to own and buy. How much RAM do you need? All computers are going this way, the iPad is setting the trend. Installing hardware yourself will be a thing of the past in all computers within 10 years.





    Apple said 80 percent of their Mac sales were laptops, so maybe they don't even want desktop computers anymore. Maybe in 10 years, desktops will be a thing of the past.

  • Reply 123 of 198

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    I love all this projection of what people think Ive is going to do when in reality we have no idea what his plans are and when we'll start to see his influence in software. image


     


    Quite true. Apple is the greatest guessing-game on Earth!

  • Reply 124 of 198

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post





    I don't need no stinkin' studies, I and my peers have been reviewing this stuff for years! : )

    Seriously, it's pop psychology shorthand used to describe what has become a serious cultural divide in computing, not just relevant to the subject of adding visual texture to software interfaces. It has to do with Apple's increasing success and the inability of other companies like Microsoft to design their way into any iconic territory whatsoever.

    I'd love to go into it sometime, but I have to get to work like right now, and I'm pretty sure you aren't going to like what I say anyway so I foresee a long exchange. If we ever do get into it, I promise not to look a single thing up, except maybe the title of Ornstein's book about the origin of consciousness. Anyway, right brain = holistic, artistic, and above all, aware of the tactile dimension. Left brain = visual, linear, ordered by desire for control.




    First of all, if you have been reviewing "this stuff" for years, you should be able to drop citations without breaking a sweat.


     


    Second, your definitions apply to everyone because nobody is strictly one way or the other. They also happen to be the type of vague definitions one finds on the internet, rather than scientific definitions. The amateurish tactic of name-dropping is so ... amateurish.


     


    We won't be "going into it" because, frankly, you are a poseur and not particularly knowledgeable on this topic.


     


    Goodbye.

  • Reply 125 of 198
    boredumbboredumb Posts: 1,417member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    "Flat" doesn't sound promising.



    No, it doesn't.


    I am thinking, for example, of the new iPhone keypad in iOS6...


    I'm sure some like it fine, but to me it looked like a high school project or beta when I first saw it.


    "Simplistic" doesn't always translate to "sophisticated",


    and, for me anyway, a physical world look is always more welcome than a machine language look.


    Just a personal preference.

  • Reply 126 of 198
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


     


    I think iOS is better design than Metro. It's simpler, cleaner, more elegant, more intuitive, more calming and everyone can use it. That's good design.


     


    Will it evolve? Of course, but it is very well designed.



     

    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

    Calming? Instead of paying $$$ to Ive, why not just distribute some Xanax with every iDevice?


    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

     

  • Reply 127 of 198
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


     


    Yes it doesn't, but I believe he was using that word to make a point more than being 100% specific about what way things would actually change. I trust Ive's design sensibilities and sensitivities.



     

    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

    "Yes, it doesn't"????


    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

     

  • Reply 128 of 198


    All of Ive designed icons will have fake beard stubble on them. Take that faux leather!

  • Reply 129 of 198
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,230moderator
    melgross wrote:
    I even liked the brushed metal. I never understood what some people hated about it. The grey that followed is bland and boring.

    It was too strong that it distracted you from the content. The design shouldn't pull your focus away from what's being presented. The pages of a book for example don't distract you from the story. The bezel of a TV doesn't pull your focus away from the movie. Most of the aqua UI was distracting IMO and I'm glad it has been toned down. There are places where it has gone too far the other way though - the coloured icons for shortcuts weren't distracting and actually made helpful associations but are now all grey.
    melgross wrote:
    I hope iBooks won't give us the flat page that both the Kindle and Nook apps have. They aren't easier to read, if anything, they're more difficult. I do agree with one criticism on iBooks. If they're going to imitate a book, they should have the thickness of the pages change as we read through. Start with a page on the left, and a large number on the right which changes as we move to the end.

    I agree with that. Those kind of designs add functional improvements.

    I wonder who it was that designed the calculator UI. That's a Braun design so I'd guess it was Ive. I doubt he'll immediately tone everything down to sterility, just remove distracting elements and ones that violate good taste.
  • Reply 130 of 198
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Quite true. Apple is the greatest guessing-game on Earth!
    Plus I'm sick of all these "what experience does Ive have blah blah blah". What experience did Steve Jobs have? He didn't have a degree in engineering or design. And Forstall no doubt is a brilliant engineer but does that translate to being brilliant in software UI/UX? Go on LinkedIn and look up Apple UI/UX employees. You'll find that many of them have design/art degrees not engineering degrees. In fact several I looked up had industrial design degrees. Maybe some of these employees are psyched about having a fellow designer running the show.
  • Reply 131 of 198

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by boredumb View Post


    No, it doesn't.


    I am thinking, for example, of the new iPhone keypad in iOS6...


    I'm sure some like it fine, but to me it looked like a high school project or beta when I first saw it.


    "Simplistic" doesn't always translate to "sophisticated",


    and, for me anyway, a physical world look is always more welcome than a machine language look.


    Just a personal preference.



    I agree with the iPhone keypad statement.  It reminds me of the keypad for Google Voice.  Me no likey.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by igriv View Post


     


    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

    Calming? Instead of paying $$$ to Ive, why not just distribute some Xanax with every iDevice?


    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

     



    I vote yes for that!

  • Reply 132 of 198


    I like skeuomorphic design. I like the felt fabric texture used in game center image above.


     


    I hate the flat featureless/textureless world of Win8, and would hate to see this end up dominating OSX/iOS.


     


    Mac is supposed to be my escape if I get too annoyed with Windows changes when I go to buy my next computer.


     


    Why not just have a couple of optional skins?

  • Reply 133 of 198


    An example of a beautiful "Flat" UI that works can be found in Ableton's Live.  While most other audio production systems sought to emulate the look and feel of the physical real world counterparts, Ableton took a radically different approach, if in part to reduce the processing load, and thereby increase the stability and capability of the software. What's more they did it with understatement and elegance that improved visual understanding of what was happening at any moment within the app.


     


    Personally, I dislike the textures and the aping of "hard" world objects in software for aesthetic purposes. Sure, if you're trying to preserve a usage paradigm, there may be some point in copying the mechanical aspects of an object. But I really don't like faux leather, faux paper, faux etc etc etc. Whether that makes me right brain, left brain or no brain, who knows?

  • Reply 134 of 198
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    It was too strong that it distracted you from the content. The design shouldn't pull your focus away from what's being presented.


     


    Bingo!


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    The pages of a book for example don't distract you from the story. The bezel of a TV doesn't pull your focus away from the movie.


     


    Indeed. In fact, there's a risk, with a TV, that if the bezel become too thin the content you're viewing is not well framed was you're watching it, creating a distraction of a different kind. Same can be said about "pages" and written content.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    Most of the aqua UI was distracting IMO and I'm glad it has been toned down.


     


    Agreed. It was cute at first, but ultimately it was a distraction.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    I doubt he'll immediately tone everything down to sterility, just remove distracting elements and ones that violate good taste.


     


    Probably. Better to go slow except where something is a mega fail.

  • Reply 135 of 198
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    crowley wrote: »
    As described Ive's designs sounds like they're going to be very boring.  A little bit of "unnecessary flourish" can go a long way.

    Won't be sad to see the end of stitched leather and felt though...

    I disagree. From that perspective, one could say that current MacBooks are boring. You know, very uniform, all same colour/texture metal surfaces, flat, sharp edges, not much happening there comapred to some, say, Toshibas (curvier, different colours and textures, yara yara yara). End yet those MacBooks are, arguably, the best looking laptops in the world.

    "Boring" can be awesome, if it is "boring" the right way.

    Of course, rest is down to individual preference.
  • Reply 136 of 198
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,978member
    sockrolid wrote: »
    YAY!!!


    The faux-felt of Game Center doesn't bother me.  The leather texture in Find My Friends and Calendar doesn't bother me either.  Those are simply background images that can be easily swapped out for something cleaner.

    The skeuomorphic graphics that really bother me are the ones that use up screen space for no reason.  Like the fake torn paper edges in Notes (in iOS and OS X.)  Anything that wastes pixels on screen is bad IMHO.  Every pixel is important, especially on mobile device screens.  

    Note: when I say "waste" I mean "using up screen space that could otherwise be used by more information."  So skeuomorphisms like the spinning reel-to-reel tape deck animation in Podcasts don't count as "waste."  Because there's not much to display while the podcast is playing anyway.  But burning up a few pixels' worth of space that could otherwise have been used to display an extra line of text (torn paper in Notes) does count as "waste."

    Have you ever done any work in publishing? That was a large part of my business. In publishing, we know that space, and the proper use of it is just as important than the words on the page. It can be even more important. The object isn't to get as much on the page. It's to make that information easier to digest, and more comfortable to access.

    You're not supposed to use as many pixels as you can for information. Whether you like so e of the designs is personal to you, but you're concept is wrong.
  • Reply 137 of 198
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,516member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post




    Sounds like you talk to Scott often?



    No, I never spoke to him. Heard enough though. But you must know him well, since you're on a first-name basis. My condolences to you.

  • Reply 138 of 198
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,978member
    desuserign wrote: »
    SF not SJ. It's apparent without even talking to him, that his approach is from an engineering (software) mindset, which is his strength (and therefor his weakness.)

    The transition to new, simple, innovative is not hard for users. But is very difficult for designers to produce. This difficulty is one reason we see so few innovative products. It's hard. Its much easier to design "looking back" than it is "looking ahead." This is why products so often fall back to trite, "literal" design strategies.

    Ah, ok. I read it as SJ because everything you said could have applied to him. Remember that he was the obsessed guy. He was the one who spent a weekend moving a few pixels around on the icon shadows until he got it the way he wanted it. There was no way that SF made these decisions without SJ approving them.
  • Reply 139 of 198
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,978member
    Marvin wrote: »
    It was too strong that it distracted you from the content. The design shouldn't pull your focus away from what's being presented. The pages of a book for example don't distract you from the story. The bezel of a TV doesn't pull your focus away from the movie. Most of the aqua UI was distracting IMO and I'm glad it has been toned down. There are places where it has gone too far the other way though - the coloured icons for shortcuts weren't distracting and actually made helpful associations but are now all grey.

    I never found it to be distracting. Certainly less so than the crazy color combinations that Microsoft uses.

    When I concentrated on the content, I ignored the rest. I don't know why some thought that was a problem.
    I agree with that. Those kind of designs add functional improvements.
    I wonder who it was that designed the calculator UI. That's a Braun design so I'd guess it was Ive. I doubt he'll immediately tone everything down to sterility, just remove distracting elements and ones that violate good taste.

    The calculator always reminded me of HP calculators, of which I have more than a few from over the years.
  • Reply 140 of 198


    If Apple makes the UI and the shape of app icons look flat and generic, Apple will lose big chunk of fanbase, including myself. Don't even think of getting rid of bookshelf in the iBooks app and paper shredder in the Passbook app, if you do, I am switching to Win 8. I promise.

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