A legitimate question is of Apple's willingness to, plans for, or ability to bring more iPhone factories on line. I understand the argument that there are only so many Chinese workers, but....there are hundreds of millions of Chinese workers. Surely tens of thousands, including managers, etc. could be recruited to bring more factories on line.
I know it's not an overnight process, but couldn't Apple have anticipated this demand several years ago? And couldn't the new factories kinda copy the template of the existing factories?
In essence, doesn't the failure to do so indicate some sort of supply-chain management problem? Just sayin'....
Apple isn't Foxconn's only client so the other lines are being used by the other 75-80 companies and their products. So opening more lines for Apple means either cutting lines for the other boys (which could be against contract terms) or literally building more buildings to have more lines and more dorms for workers. That's a good year project.
As for the demand, it's hard to ever properly calculate demand. Apple year after year guesses what demand will be but if they under guess this kind of problem happens. Even if they double last years demand for the 4s, the actual demand could be 3-4 times last year. Same with the ipad 4th gen and ipad mini. Not being able to guarantee correct demand for particular units is part of why they don't stock pile for months before a launch (security is another reason). They best guess and then adjust according to what sells the fastest.
As someone else pointed out, what really matters is the numbers. Is this an HP level mistake (only making 5k units with a delay of weeks before you can make more) or a case of "we can make 10 million units a week but demand is 12 million". If it is the latter that is a great place to be particularly if folks are willing to ride it out. And in most cases they are. They will whine about it but they will wait
From the article "It's not easy to make the iPhones," and FOXCONN representatives already said that the iPhone 5 was difficult to make.
The phones has been extremely hard to find in France for a month, less than thousands sell per day for each operator.
And you shouldn't call a troll someone who's been here far longer than you.
I just address your last statement, so there is a rule, If someone has been longer on the forum, you can't call that person a troll...that makes logical sense..:no:
Btw: Did not address your first comment, since other people have given comments explaining that High demand is causing major problem for FOXCONN vs. manufacturing difficulties.
While some of the problem seems to be QA issues, you do not build a supply chain to handle peak demand - you build it for average demand. Otherwise when demand declines or near the end of a model life, you're stuck with tons of expensive unused capacity, even if it's a third-party contractor. Just as it always has, this will all settle down by another eight weeks. From a marketing perspective, it works very well - inability to get a phone creates demand for it.
If there truly is a chronic QA issue with the phone's manufacture, then eight weeks is optimistic. I can't recall word from manufacturing in the past that something was ever difficult to assemble. They've often talked about innovative manufacturing process, but flat out difficulty in yield other than to meet demand is something else.
He's probably gonna go into a rant about how much you pay for service from your carrier and how it's overpriced which isn't exclusive to the iPhone. It's quite alright for Apple to have healthy profit margins but god forbid anyone else does. One cannot buy a Ferrari to then complain about the price of premium gasoline.
It seems like some people like to include the cost of service into the cost of the phone and call it the total cost of owning an iphone. I find this absolutely ridiculous. We don't add in the cost of gas and claim that our car costs over 200k. Or even add in cost of electricity, water, garbage, etc. and call our house a million dollar house. While it's true that some wireless lines are cheaper without a contract, I've yet to find a deal that is even worth my time to switch to. I had a line out of contract for over 8 months before using it to upgrade to the iphone 5.
The cost of the iphone 5 is $199 plus tax. No matter how others will try to spin it, they have to pay a wireless service bill with or without an iphone. They can't include that in the cost of the iphone because the cost is already there. It won't stop them from imposing their views that we're actually paying $1,000 for an iphone though. As far as I'm concerned, I paid $199.
Wait, but I thought the iPhone 5 was a 'boring' upgrade, a massive dissapointment, pathetic compared to the competition, had massive flaws, useless maps, photos that show a wall of purple, and came out of the box looking like its been through a blender? How can anyone want the device?
A big **** you to all the naysayers and pundits predicting failure. People want the shit out of this phone.
You are completely wrong my friend! The iP5 Is a horrible device! If it weren't for the iP5, the iPhone 4S would still be the single best smart phone out there. The other ugly thing about the iP5 is of course, that I am still waiting for it to come!
The iPhone is too complicated to be mass produced at high quality. Foxconn should not be blamed for this. Apple should learn from Samsung by making simpler mass market phones, in order to capture a larger market.
It seems like some people like to include the cost of service into the cost of the phone and call it the total cost of owning an iphone. I find this absolutely ridiculous. We don't add in the cost of gas and claim that our car costs over 200k. Or even add in cost of electricity, water, garbage, etc. and call our house a million dollar house. While it's true that some wireless lines are cheaper without a contract, I've yet to find a deal that is even worth my time to switch to. I had a line out of contract for over 8 months before using it to upgrade to the iphone 5.
The cost of the iphone 5 is $199 plus tax. No matter how others will try to spin it, they have to pay a wireless service bill with or without an iphone. They can't include that in the cost of the iphone because the cost is already there. It won't stop them from imposing their views that we're actually paying $1,000 for an iphone though. As far as I'm concerned, I paid $199.
Exactly nobody's making them buy an iPhone. If you don't want the additional service cost then buy a iPod.
I just address your last statement, so there is a rule, If someone has been longer on the forum, you can't call that person a troll...that makes logical sense..:no:
Btw: Did not address your first comment, since other people have given comments explaining that High demand is causing major problem for FOXCONN vs. manufacturing difficulties.
A troll is someone who comes on a forum to disrupt the discussion. Calling someone who's been here for years a troll, that doesn't make sense. Calling anyone with whom you disagree a troll, that's trolling. **** off troll.
If they were made in the US you wouldn't pay $1000, it would most likely only add around $100 to the cost. You have to remember that those foxconn workers work on a lot more than one iphone per hour so the cost of the hourly wage does not add to the cost of the phone as you think. For example if a worker gets paid $100 an hour but creates 10 products in one hour than the cost of labor was $10 per unit
You are failing to account for the fact that the parts for the iPhone aren't made here. This is far more than an assembly issue. You would need to build all the infrastructure, move parts suppliers here etc. to create an efficient system to hold down costs. But most importantly, as stated by many before, you could not possibly ramp production in the US as you can in Asia. Not enough engineers or workers available in any one location in the US to meet demand. The main iPhone factory in Shenzhen employees approximately 400,000 people, greater than the population of the overwhelming majority of US cities. There are only 9 cities in the US with populations greater than 1 Million. And only 44 with a population of over 400,000. So those workers would come from where again? If you are going to try to make logical arguments as to why or why not manufacture in the US you need to do more homework.
The iPhone is too complicated to be mass produced at high quality. Foxconn should not be blamed for this. Apple should learn from Samsung by making simpler mass market phones, in order to capture a larger market.
LOL - and less profit? It is a recipe for disaster. The iPhone is the best engineered and built phone on the market. One of the key reasons people buy it. Why would they want to race to the bottom? I like their market share - it is 90% of mobile profits!!!!
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia
A legitimate question is of Apple's willingness to, plans for, or ability to bring more iPhone factories on line. I understand the argument that there are only so many Chinese workers, but....there are hundreds of millions of Chinese workers. Surely tens of thousands, including managers, etc. could be recruited to bring more factories on line.
I know it's not an overnight process, but couldn't Apple have anticipated this demand several years ago? And couldn't the new factories kinda copy the template of the existing factories?
In essence, doesn't the failure to do so indicate some sort of supply-chain management problem? Just sayin'....
Apple isn't Foxconn's only client so the other lines are being used by the other 75-80 companies and their products. So opening more lines for Apple means either cutting lines for the other boys (which could be against contract terms) or literally building more buildings to have more lines and more dorms for workers. That's a good year project.
As for the demand, it's hard to ever properly calculate demand. Apple year after year guesses what demand will be but if they under guess this kind of problem happens. Even if they double last years demand for the 4s, the actual demand could be 3-4 times last year. Same with the ipad 4th gen and ipad mini. Not being able to guarantee correct demand for particular units is part of why they don't stock pile for months before a launch (security is another reason). They best guess and then adjust according to what sells the fastest.
As someone else pointed out, what really matters is the numbers. Is this an HP level mistake (only making 5k units with a delay of weeks before you can make more) or a case of "we can make 10 million units a week but demand is 12 million". If it is the latter that is a great place to be particularly if folks are willing to ride it out. And in most cases they are. They will whine about it but they will wait
I just address your last statement, so there is a rule, If someone has been longer on the forum, you can't call that person a troll...that makes logical sense..:no:
Btw: Did not address your first comment, since other people have given comments explaining that High demand is causing major problem for FOXCONN vs. manufacturing difficulties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
While some of the problem seems to be QA issues, you do not build a supply chain to handle peak demand - you build it for average demand. Otherwise when demand declines or near the end of a model life, you're stuck with tons of expensive unused capacity, even if it's a third-party contractor. Just as it always has, this will all settle down by another eight weeks. From a marketing perspective, it works very well - inability to get a phone creates demand for it.
If there truly is a chronic QA issue with the phone's manufacture, then eight weeks is optimistic. I can't recall word from manufacturing in the past that something was ever difficult to assemble. They've often talked about innovative manufacturing process, but flat out difficulty in yield other than to meet demand is something else.
"Oh woe is us! We have too much work!" said the company in the middle of a global economic downturn.
Originally Posted by Quiet_Desperation
"Oh woe is us! We have too much work!" said the company in the middle of a global economic downturn.
No downturn in the demand for Apple products!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah
Apple needs a second supply chain, hopefully American.
Any more jokes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Any more jokes?
Two iPhones walk into a bar...
Originally Posted by island hermit
Two iPhones walk into a bar...
The barman says, "How'd you find the place?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
He's probably gonna go into a rant about how much you pay for service from your carrier and how it's overpriced which isn't exclusive to the iPhone. It's quite alright for Apple to have healthy profit margins but god forbid anyone else does. One cannot buy a Ferrari to then complain about the price of premium gasoline.
It seems like some people like to include the cost of service into the cost of the phone and call it the total cost of owning an iphone. I find this absolutely ridiculous. We don't add in the cost of gas and claim that our car costs over 200k. Or even add in cost of electricity, water, garbage, etc. and call our house a million dollar house. While it's true that some wireless lines are cheaper without a contract, I've yet to find a deal that is even worth my time to switch to. I had a line out of contract for over 8 months before using it to upgrade to the iphone 5.
The cost of the iphone 5 is $199 plus tax. No matter how others will try to spin it, they have to pay a wireless service bill with or without an iphone. They can't include that in the cost of the iphone because the cost is already there. It won't stop them from imposing their views that we're actually paying $1,000 for an iphone though. As far as I'm concerned, I paid $199.
Foxconn get permission to talk.
All quite weird.
If you are purchasing your iphone on a two year deal with any of the devils, you ARE already paying that much for your iphone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
You want to pay $1000 for an iPhone? I don't.
Originally Posted by fireside
If you are purchasing your iphone on a two year deal with any of the devils, you ARE already paying that much for your iphone.
Nope. Not part of the argument.
You are completely wrong my friend! The iP5 Is a horrible device! If it weren't for the iP5, the iPhone 4S would still be the single best smart phone out there. The other ugly thing about the iP5 is of course, that I am still waiting for it to come!
The IPhone's say: "We can't tell before we had some smart drinks."
The iPhone is too complicated to be mass produced at high quality. Foxconn should not be blamed for this. Apple should learn from Samsung by making simpler mass market phones, in order to capture a larger market.
Exactly nobody's making them buy an iPhone. If you don't want the additional service cost then buy a iPod.
A troll is someone who comes on a forum to disrupt the discussion. Calling someone who's been here for years a troll, that doesn't make sense. Calling anyone with whom you disagree a troll, that's trolling. **** off troll.
Originally Posted by ClemyNX
Calling someone who's been here for years a troll, that doesn't make sense.
That's not a condition of sensibility in this regard, but believe what you want to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noliving
If they were made in the US you wouldn't pay $1000, it would most likely only add around $100 to the cost. You have to remember that those foxconn workers work on a lot more than one iphone per hour so the cost of the hourly wage does not add to the cost of the phone as you think. For example if a worker gets paid $100 an hour but creates 10 products in one hour than the cost of labor was $10 per unit
You are failing to account for the fact that the parts for the iPhone aren't made here. This is far more than an assembly issue. You would need to build all the infrastructure, move parts suppliers here etc. to create an efficient system to hold down costs. But most importantly, as stated by many before, you could not possibly ramp production in the US as you can in Asia. Not enough engineers or workers available in any one location in the US to meet demand. The main iPhone factory in Shenzhen employees approximately 400,000 people, greater than the population of the overwhelming majority of US cities. There are only 9 cities in the US with populations greater than 1 Million. And only 44 with a population of over 400,000. So those workers would come from where again? If you are going to try to make logical arguments as to why or why not manufacture in the US you need to do more homework.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236
The iPhone is too complicated to be mass produced at high quality. Foxconn should not be blamed for this. Apple should learn from Samsung by making simpler mass market phones, in order to capture a larger market.
LOL - and less profit? It is a recipe for disaster. The iPhone is the best engineered and built phone on the market. One of the key reasons people buy it. Why would they want to race to the bottom? I like their market share - it is 90% of mobile profits!!!!