Possible, but I'd be pretty surprised. One of the issues the ITC had with those transferred patents is that Google retained some control of them. I'd guess they'd minimally preclude HTC re-licensing them to someone else without Google's permission.
Yes, I recall the judge determined HTC didn't own them enough. But I'd thought that was because of an agreement to transfer them back to Google not from some limitation on their ownership. If they were indeed fully transfered to HTC and the judges concern was the whole transaction of loaning them out temporarily, there might not be a legal basis for preventing them from re-licensing them. Given how poorly thought out the entire adventure of buying up Motorola for FRAND patents to use offensively (counter to the fundamental notion of FRAND) it would not surprise me that ownership was fully transfered and this outcome was not a consideration when the patents were handed off.
Licensing or even having patent protection does not give HTC ownership of said patents. So they can't license out those same Google patents to anyone.
Believe it or not, but HTC has quite a bit of IP itself, especially for how small they are... They've been making smartphones longer than anyone...
They didn't license them or have patent protection from Google. Google 'loaned' them to HTC, that is they gave them to HTC to use in lawsuits against Apple. This was done specifically because of the weakness of HTC's patent portfolio. HTC was stuck in a difficult position. The patents they held were determined to be essentially useless in their battle with Apple. If they are SEP, that is an unproven offensive weapon and if they weren't, there is no indication Apple was infringing on nonSEP patents held by HTC. So google gave them their patents. I expect they were excluded from the deal with Apple, but it would be a hoot if they weren't. I can honestly see Apple grabbing the opportunity to stick it to google like this. As a unabashed FRAND abuser, they would certainly have it coming.
I expect little to no money changed hands, but Apple likely got an "anti-copying" provision like they did when they licensed to Microsoft.
Good for both parties IMO.
Apple and MS have cross-licensing agreement, with anti-copying provision working in both directions.
That might be why MS had to go for unorthodox approach to phone/tablet desktop with "live tiles", but in return, that might also be why Apple will stick with static apps icons for unforeseeable future.
It is my understanding that they cannot rip-off each other's complete products, but can use specific sub-solutions (like rubber-banding scroll etc.).
Re HTC and Apple agreement, something I can applaud for. Hope there will be more to come.
So… more anti-Apple whining and continued lies about things that are quite evidently true.
Keep it up. No, really. ????
I wish they'd at least distinguish between theft and infringement. The semantics are ridiculous at times.
Edit: I meant that in both directions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Isn't it funny how the trolls are always posting about how they are always selling their Apple stock but never once mention when they were excited to buy them. It's almost as if they are making it all up.
Bleh people are always trying to call why it did something in hindsight. I learned to ignore that.
And this is how mature, professional businessmen work things out, unlike the egotistical mafia like goons in korea. Samscum think that because they can get away with bribing judges and buying favours from politicians, they feel invulnerable to any criticism. They even own the media in korea, print and television. Anyone who shows dissent against them go missing or end up in jail. You only have to read an open and honest report by a journalist who isn't in the pockets of samscum. This is a must read.
Well done fellas.
hmm.. sounds like it's a paid propaganda from one of Apple's PR firms. Not that anybody really cares.
Hapkido is more like Karate + Judo. Nothing like Aikido....
Actually their both have similar ideas, to avoid head on attacks and use the other opponents strength to defeat them in battle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi
What?
Why are we talking about martial arts all of a sudden?
Where in my statement do I associate martial arts with Koreans?
This is a classic example of pulling things out of the backside.
Dont worry. Apple's share price will dip into the $400 sooner than expected. I've already sold mine.
With Democrats increasing the capital gains tax rate, Apple's continued trouble with production, no new product introduction until next year, management shakeup and word leaking out that Tim Cook is just an ordinary business guy, I'm pretty certain that the shares will reflect all of this. All these things will influence both institutional investors and individuals alike to sell off their shares when they can. Some words are going around that shares will dip down to $425.
He was stating that Korean culture is not directly forceful in nature and usually see all the angles in a battle and will not rush head on to defeat their enemy. Which is actually true based on Samsung's past practices in sneaky around in shadows to make other people do their bidding. As for your other comments, very much doubt, you ever owned Apple shares and your insight into Apple future is has off base as comment the Philly would win the NFL championship in 2013.
And this is how mature, professional businessmen work things out, unlike the egotistical mafia like goons in korea. Samscum think that because they can get away with bribing judges and buying favours from politicians, they feel invulnerable to any criticism. They even own the media in korea, print and television. Anyone who shows dissent against them go missing or end up in jail. You only have to read an open and honest report by a journalist who isn't in the pockets of samscum. This is a must read.
Well done fellas.
The first line of your post is a blatant lie. Whether it's Apple, Samsung, HTC, or whoever else, they look at if the other side has a case against them. They'll typically determine if it's cheaper to settle or go to court. This means even if one of Apple's patents might not hold up to closer scrutiny, it could be beneficial to settle if the offer is cheaper than the cost of litigation. The suggested offers that came up in the court case were pretty bad, so this is probably why you didn't see a settlement. I'd have to look them up again. It wasn't just Android phones either. Apple tried to assert patents over an immense range of phones with licensing fees being pretty high even if cross licensing was offered.
"Since Apple sued Samsung and others, its shares have fallen by over $100+, Sales have fallen all over the world and samsung is beating them in sales, Apple is also losing cases against everyone in court that sues them... Companies are lining up to sue Apple.
I saw this coming when Apple shares were over $700.
I just hope Apple realize that they need to make more than one phone model/design to beat the market. one cannot rule them all anymore as people want different styles or bigger screens."
Apple sued these companies YEARS ago. Since then, the stock has RISEN hundreds of dollars. Apple sales are GROWING worldwide except in quarters preceding releases of new models. Not-so-coincidentally THESE are the quarters when IDC reports Apple's loss of market share. I'll let you do the math, but I'll give you the answer in advance: look for Apple to report RECORD QUARTERLY PROFIT in January. Not just for them, but for any company in any quarter. I'll let you knee-jerk reactors to sweat out the daily news reports instead of understanding what is really happening.
Please do your homework and read about the Korean mafia and Samsung's links to this group. You native or just unaware of current events.
naive?
There is no organized criminals on the scale of Yakuza, Mafia, or Triads in South Korea. They are still technically at war with the North - with its capital, Seoul, less than 35 miles away from the DMZ - so the military still plays in an important role in maintaining social order. Likewise, during General Park's administration (1960's - 1970's), most organized criminals were publicly humiliated & purged and, again, during General Chun's 8 years (1980's), along with political dissidents, organized criminals were sent to "re-education camps." Most of what remains today are essentially street thugs and loan sharks.
There is only one reference to Mafia in that fictitious anti-Samsung article and it is used to describe their "secrecy." But I'm not surprised that the article is intended to mislead gullible fools like you. When are you going to do your *homework* ?
There is no organized criminals on the scale of Yakuza, Mafia, or Triads in South Korea. They are still technically at war with the North - with its capital, Seoul, less than 35 miles away from the DMZ - so the military still plays in an important role in maintaining social order. Likewise, during General Park's administration (1960's - 1970's), most organized criminals were publicly humiliated & purged and, again, during General Chun's 8 years (1980's), along with political dissidents, organized criminals were sent to "re-education camps." Most of what remains today are essentially street thugs and loan sharks.
There is only one reference to Mafia in that fictitious anti-Samsung article and it is used to describe their "secrecy." But I'm not surprised that the article is intended to mislead gullible fools like you. When are you going to do your *homework* ?
Wouldn't it get interesting if Google were to buy HTC ? Is that even possible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
In my book, they do.
Because the Moto Mobile acquisition has been so stunningly synergistic? Maybe the IP has been worth the money (I'm not sure anyone outside of Google knows this, or if Google knows it yet), but I'm looking at phones, and there wasn't a Moto I'd consider (unless I needed a brick with loong battery life like one model) - they haven't even used them to build a "Nexus" model, and far as I know, they're not making any money. And before the iPhone 5 changed the real estate and the relative heft, that Galaxy SIII looked fairly good to me when I had a 4s in one hand and it in the other.
I could be wrong, and they might want to "become Apple" (hardware and software integrated - a model MS also seems to be flirting with) through a series of acquisitions of their smaller OEM's - but that's a lot of world-wide corporate culture blending right there. And they couldn't buy Samsung anyway. So I doubts it......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi
With Democrats increasing the capital gains tax rate, Apple's continued trouble with production, no new product introduction until next year, management shakeup and word leaking out that Tim Cook is just an ordinary business guy, I'm pretty certain that the shares will reflect all of this. All these things will influence both institutional investors and individuals alike to sell off their shares when they can.
I'm sure the dire market predictions some are making here are certainly BS in the short-term. Apple has, remember, been falling in a falling market largely reacting to things happening to governments in the US and Europe, and with all their new products, their sales and growth should be quite satisfactory for a good while. Were I an "anal-lyst" I'd rate them an "outperform" in their segment and the market as a whole.
However, until proven otherwise, the "Tim Cook's just an ordinary business guy" meme has a bit more to it. Cook + Ive + Schiller - Forstall /= having a "visionary in chief." That ultra-key post is still very conspicuously unfilled. Consider:
Apple reasonably deftly carried out updates and/or expansion (in some case like the new iPad/iPad 4th gen multiple updates) of virtually its entire product line (including key software like both of its OS's) in 2012 as Cook promised. This is no mean feat for a corp Apple's size, marketing as widely around the world as Apple now does. And also expanded distribution at a good clip.
And overall I give them a B+/A- for the whole deal in terms of executing all of these multiple roll-outs. They don't get a A for various reasons - all discussed in many other articles, so I'll hold myself back on this. In any case, about all any tech company in the world could accomplish with only a few glitches/questionable actions of note.
But the point is that with this team, EVERY ONE of these products, is iterative - not a visionary or disruptive release in the bunch, including the iPad Mini - just another set of SKU's in an existing device category.
Meaning TimCo has to show that THAT kind of innovation is still happening at Apple. Articles have mentioned going into automotive electronics, but that's also just moving existing functions into new places and won't even result in new devices that consumers can buy. And huge, unwieldy TV's in a crowded, mature market where you can get satisfactory 1080p in big screen sizes for under a grand don't sound like the next market either - even if they're the thinnest, whozy whatsis welded, unibody aluminum with diamond polished bezels, etc., etc. - a $2-3 grand set isn't a mass product, and besides, it would just be a TV with an ATV inside - and again, simply iterative.
So what IS the next new thing we don't know we need yet, but will flock to in the 10's of millions?? Is it in their labs? Are assembly lines and components being ramped up for it?
Worst case, they should remain a hugely profitable company for a while, but lacking a new blockbuster will begin to conform to the growth curve of every company near their size, rather than defying history as they have the last few years. And others will start to catch up in "cool." So to remain a hyper-growth company (the biggest ever if they do it), and to keep their amazing mind-share, they have to keep breaking truly new ground.
Apple's proven track record of stealing IP from others will not go down well. (Motorola (FRAND Patents), SysnetX, SB (clock)) are just some that come to mind.
What are you talking about? Firstly there is nothing that compares to East Texas in the world. Have you any statistics about this that you can share?? I thought not because what you imply is a lie. Are you talking about VirnetX??? Oh that problem will go away after Cisco is finished with them. After an appeal after the East Texas assholes whatever they decide doesnt matter it can really be just overturned by someone with some intelligence in the upper foodchain.This has happened many times to patent trolls/nonpracticing entities. But as you say the show aint over untill the fat lady sings = Appeal is handled.
Motorolas Patents are exhausted by Qualcomms license (which Motorola terminated unlawfully, I mean Google!).
SB are we talking about SBB=?, I quess so: since when has a clock been the selling point of any smartphone? Well i could have drawn such a clock quite easily without ever seeing SBB:s clocks. But i quess Apple didnt want to spend time on this in courts and wanted to pay instead.
I expect little to no money changed hands, but Apple likely got an "anti-copying" provision like they did when they licensed to Microsoft.
Good for both parties IMO.
I expect significant money per phone to go Apple's way. HTC owns very little IP. It acquired some just to try and defend itself. The patent cases were going poorly for it. More importantly, the lawsuits were a drain on its ability to focus on building phones.
With that said, being that HTC's phones copy Apple the least and it wasn't selling a lot of them in comparison to Samsung, Apple probably was willing to settle for less than Apple wanted. More importantly, the settlement sends a strong message to the other Android users.
Microsoft did this right from the get go by simply asking for a relatively reasonable licensing rate.
"Since Apple sued Samsung and others, its shares have fallen by over $100+, Sales have fallen all over the world and samsung is beating them in sales, Apple is also losing cases against everyone in court that sues them... Companies are lining up to sue Apple.
I saw this coming when Apple shares were over $700.
I just hope Apple realize that they need to make more than one phone model/design to beat the market. one cannot rule them all anymore as people want different styles or bigger screens."
Apple sued these companies YEARS ago. Since then, the stock has RISEN hundreds of dollars. Apple sales are GROWING worldwide except in quarters preceding releases of new models. Not-so-coincidentally THESE are the quarters when IDC reports Apple's loss of market share. I'll let you do the math, but I'll give you the answer in advance: look for Apple to report RECORD QUARTERLY PROFIT in January. Not just for them, but for any company in any quarter. I'll let you knee-jerk reactors to sweat out the daily news reports instead of understanding what is really happening.
Thompson
Apple's stock is fell because the whole market crashed and the stock was shorted and talked down by so called analysts. They will now buy back into the stock and ride it back up again. Then they will start the whole process over again.
Apple's proven track record of stealing IP from others will not go down well. (Motorola (FRAND Patents), SysnetX, SB (clock)) are just some that come to mind.
What are you talking about? Firstly there is nothing that compares to East Texas in the world. Have you any statistics about this that you can share?? I thought not because what you imply is a lie. Are you talking about VirnetX??? Oh that problem will go away after Cisco is finished with them. After an appeal after the East Texas assholes whatever they decide doesnt matter it can really be just overturned by someone with some intelligence in the upper foodchain.This has happened many times to patent trolls/nonpracticing entities. But as you say the show aint over untill the fat lady sings = Appeal is handled.
Motorolas Patents are exhausted by Qualcomms license (which Motorola terminated unlawfully, I mean Google!).
SB are we talking about SBB=?, I quess so: since when has a clock been the selling point of any smartphone? Well i could have drawn such a clock quite easily without ever seeing SBB:s clocks. But i quess Apple didnt want to spend time on this in courts and wanted to pay instead.
Sorry, I missed this one. (On a business trip, no internet last week).
I think we share an aversion to patent trolls. Whether VirnetX is in fact purely a patent troll seems to be debatable (I don't know one way or the other). I am not so sure that this judgement will in fact be overturned as easily as you seem to think. I would have expected both Apple and Microsoft (both of which lost in the first instance) to be equally capable as Cisco in litigation.
But anyway, the point is that if you wish to define "IP" as what is patentable/patented or copyrighted, then the rules apply both ways. In the FRAND debate, apple has been using motorola frand patents without paying a cent, or being willing to negotiate in good faith for licensing terms, for years and years. Using the current lingo, this amounts to theft. The F in FRAND does NOT mean FREE. Either you pay up (after negotiations on the terms, cross-licensing etc), or you don't use the IP. To many people, apple is being hypocritical in getting on a high horse when a competitor "steals" their IP (particularly when these are trivial patents that shouldn't have been awarded in the first place), while whining like a spoilt child when they get sued themselves.
Whether or not Apple's argument re Patent Exhaustion is a winner or not is not yet a resolved issue in the litigation. It is an assertion from Apple. No more, no less.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Possible, but I'd be pretty surprised. One of the issues the ITC had with those transferred patents is that Google retained some control of them. I'd guess they'd minimally preclude HTC re-licensing them to someone else without Google's permission.
Yes, I recall the judge determined HTC didn't own them enough. But I'd thought that was because of an agreement to transfer them back to Google not from some limitation on their ownership. If they were indeed fully transfered to HTC and the judges concern was the whole transaction of loaning them out temporarily, there might not be a legal basis for preventing them from re-licensing them. Given how poorly thought out the entire adventure of buying up Motorola for FRAND patents to use offensively (counter to the fundamental notion of FRAND) it would not surprise me that ownership was fully transfered and this outcome was not a consideration when the patents were handed off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Licensing or even having patent protection does not give HTC ownership of said patents. So they can't license out those same Google patents to anyone.
Believe it or not, but HTC has quite a bit of IP itself, especially for how small they are... They've been making smartphones longer than anyone...
They didn't license them or have patent protection from Google. Google 'loaned' them to HTC, that is they gave them to HTC to use in lawsuits against Apple. This was done specifically because of the weakness of HTC's patent portfolio. HTC was stuck in a difficult position. The patents they held were determined to be essentially useless in their battle with Apple. If they are SEP, that is an unproven offensive weapon and if they weren't, there is no indication Apple was infringing on nonSEP patents held by HTC. So google gave them their patents. I expect they were excluded from the deal with Apple, but it would be a hoot if they weren't. I can honestly see Apple grabbing the opportunity to stick it to google like this. As a unabashed FRAND abuser, they would certainly have it coming.
Apple and MS have cross-licensing agreement, with anti-copying provision working in both directions.
That might be why MS had to go for unorthodox approach to phone/tablet desktop with "live tiles", but in return, that might also be why Apple will stick with static apps icons for unforeseeable future.
It is my understanding that they cannot rip-off each other's complete products, but can use specific sub-solutions (like rubber-banding scroll etc.).
Re HTC and Apple agreement, something I can applaud for. Hope there will be more to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So… more anti-Apple whining and continued lies about things that are quite evidently true.
Keep it up. No, really. ????
I wish they'd at least distinguish between theft and infringement. The semantics are ridiculous at times.
Edit: I meant that in both directions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Isn't it funny how the trolls are always posting about how they are always selling their Apple stock but never once mention when they were excited to buy them. It's almost as if they are making it all up.
Bleh people are always trying to call why it did something in hindsight. I learned to ignore that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr00
And this is how mature, professional businessmen work things out, unlike the egotistical mafia like goons in korea. Samscum think that because they can get away with bribing judges and buying favours from politicians, they feel invulnerable to any criticism. They even own the media in korea, print and television. Anyone who shows dissent against them go missing or end up in jail. You only have to read an open and honest report by a journalist who isn't in the pockets of samscum. This is a must read.
Well done fellas.
hmm.. sounds like it's a paid propaganda from one of Apple's PR firms. Not that anybody really cares.
Originally Posted by tooltalk
hmm.. sounds like it's a paid propaganda from one of Apple's PR firms. Not that anybody really cares.
We're gonna need some proof that what you have said even happens, one, and two, disproof that Samsung holds this sort of power in South Korea.
Good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Hapkido is more like Karate + Judo. Nothing like Aikido....
Actually their both have similar ideas, to avoid head on attacks and use the other opponents strength to defeat them in battle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi
What?
Why are we talking about martial arts all of a sudden?
Where in my statement do I associate martial arts with Koreans?
This is a classic example of pulling things out of the backside.
Dont worry. Apple's share price will dip into the $400 sooner than expected. I've already sold mine.
With Democrats increasing the capital gains tax rate, Apple's continued trouble with production, no new product introduction until next year, management shakeup and word leaking out that Tim Cook is just an ordinary business guy, I'm pretty certain that the shares will reflect all of this. All these things will influence both institutional investors and individuals alike to sell off their shares when they can. Some words are going around that shares will dip down to $425.
He was stating that Korean culture is not directly forceful in nature and usually see all the angles in a battle and will not rush head on to defeat their enemy. Which is actually true based on Samsung's past practices in sneaky around in shadows to make other people do their bidding. As for your other comments, very much doubt, you ever owned Apple shares and your insight into Apple future is has off base as comment the Philly would win the NFL championship in 2013.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
hmm.. sounds like it's a paid propaganda from one of Apple's PR firms. Not that anybody really cares.
Please do your homework and read about the Korean mafia and Samsung's links to this group. You native or just unaware of current events.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr00
And this is how mature, professional businessmen work things out, unlike the egotistical mafia like goons in korea. Samscum think that because they can get away with bribing judges and buying favours from politicians, they feel invulnerable to any criticism. They even own the media in korea, print and television. Anyone who shows dissent against them go missing or end up in jail. You only have to read an open and honest report by a journalist who isn't in the pockets of samscum. This is a must read.
Well done fellas.
The first line of your post is a blatant lie. Whether it's Apple, Samsung, HTC, or whoever else, they look at if the other side has a case against them. They'll typically determine if it's cheaper to settle or go to court. This means even if one of Apple's patents might not hold up to closer scrutiny, it could be beneficial to settle if the offer is cheaper than the cost of litigation. The suggested offers that came up in the court case were pretty bad, so this is probably why you didn't see a settlement. I'd have to look them up again. It wasn't just Android phones either. Apple tried to assert patents over an immense range of phones with licensing fees being pretty high even if cross licensing was offered.
"Since Apple sued Samsung and others, its shares have fallen by over $100+, Sales have fallen all over the world and samsung is beating them in sales, Apple is also losing cases against everyone in court that sues them... Companies are lining up to sue Apple.
I saw this coming when Apple shares were over $700.
I just hope Apple realize that they need to make more than one phone model/design to beat the market. one cannot rule them all anymore as people want different styles or bigger screens."
Apple sued these companies YEARS ago. Since then, the stock has RISEN hundreds of dollars. Apple sales are GROWING worldwide except in quarters preceding releases of new models. Not-so-coincidentally THESE are the quarters when IDC reports Apple's loss of market share. I'll let you do the math, but I'll give you the answer in advance: look for Apple to report RECORD QUARTERLY PROFIT in January. Not just for them, but for any company in any quarter. I'll let you knee-jerk reactors to sweat out the daily news reports instead of understanding what is really happening.
Thompson
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul
Please do your homework and read about the Korean mafia and Samsung's links to this group. You native or just unaware of current events.
naive?
There is no organized criminals on the scale of Yakuza, Mafia, or Triads in South Korea. They are still technically at war with the North - with its capital, Seoul, less than 35 miles away from the DMZ - so the military still plays in an important role in maintaining social order. Likewise, during General Park's administration (1960's - 1970's), most organized criminals were publicly humiliated & purged and, again, during General Chun's 8 years (1980's), along with political dissidents, organized criminals were sent to "re-education camps." Most of what remains today are essentially street thugs and loan sharks.
There is only one reference to Mafia in that fictitious anti-Samsung article and it is used to describe their "secrecy." But I'm not surprised that the article is intended to mislead gullible fools like you. When are you going to do your *homework* ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
naive?
There is no organized criminals on the scale of Yakuza, Mafia, or Triads in South Korea. They are still technically at war with the North - with its capital, Seoul, less than 35 miles away from the DMZ - so the military still plays in an important role in maintaining social order. Likewise, during General Park's administration (1960's - 1970's), most organized criminals were publicly humiliated & purged and, again, during General Chun's 8 years (1980's), along with political dissidents, organized criminals were sent to "re-education camps." Most of what remains today are essentially street thugs and loan sharks.
There is only one reference to Mafia in that fictitious anti-Samsung article and it is used to describe their "secrecy." But I'm not surprised that the article is intended to mislead gullible fools like you. When are you going to do your *homework* ?
Yes trolltalk, there is. it's called "samsung".
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
Wouldn't it get interesting if Google were to buy HTC ? Is that even possible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
In my book, they do.
Because the Moto Mobile acquisition has been so stunningly synergistic? Maybe the IP has been worth the money (I'm not sure anyone outside of Google knows this, or if Google knows it yet), but I'm looking at phones, and there wasn't a Moto I'd consider (unless I needed a brick with loong battery life like one model) - they haven't even used them to build a "Nexus" model, and far as I know, they're not making any money. And before the iPhone 5 changed the real estate and the relative heft, that Galaxy SIII looked fairly good to me when I had a 4s in one hand and it in the other.
I could be wrong, and they might want to "become Apple" (hardware and software integrated - a model MS also seems to be flirting with) through a series of acquisitions of their smaller OEM's - but that's a lot of world-wide corporate culture blending right there. And they couldn't buy Samsung anyway. So I doubts it......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi
With Democrats increasing the capital gains tax rate, Apple's continued trouble with production, no new product introduction until next year, management shakeup and word leaking out that Tim Cook is just an ordinary business guy, I'm pretty certain that the shares will reflect all of this. All these things will influence both institutional investors and individuals alike to sell off their shares when they can.I'm sure the dire market predictions some are making here are certainly BS in the short-term. Apple has, remember, been falling in a falling market largely reacting to things happening to governments in the US and Europe, and with all their new products, their sales and growth should be quite satisfactory for a good while. Were I an "anal-lyst" I'd rate them an "outperform" in their segment and the market as a whole.
However, until proven otherwise, the "Tim Cook's just an ordinary business guy" meme has a bit more to it. Cook + Ive + Schiller - Forstall /= having a "visionary in chief." That ultra-key post is still very conspicuously unfilled. Consider:
Apple reasonably deftly carried out updates and/or expansion (in some case like the new iPad/iPad 4th gen multiple updates) of virtually its entire product line (including key software like both of its OS's) in 2012 as Cook promised. This is no mean feat for a corp Apple's size, marketing as widely around the world as Apple now does. And also expanded distribution at a good clip.
And overall I give them a B+/A- for the whole deal in terms of executing all of these multiple roll-outs. They don't get a A for various reasons - all discussed in many other articles, so I'll hold myself back on this. In any case, about all any tech company in the world could accomplish with only a few glitches/questionable actions of note.
But the point is that with this team, EVERY ONE of these products, is iterative - not a visionary or disruptive release in the bunch, including the iPad Mini - just another set of SKU's in an existing device category.
Meaning TimCo has to show that THAT kind of innovation is still happening at Apple. Articles have mentioned going into automotive electronics, but that's also just moving existing functions into new places and won't even result in new devices that consumers can buy. And huge, unwieldy TV's in a crowded, mature market where you can get satisfactory 1080p in big screen sizes for under a grand don't sound like the next market either - even if they're the thinnest, whozy whatsis welded, unibody aluminum with diamond polished bezels, etc., etc. - a $2-3 grand set isn't a mass product, and besides, it would just be a TV with an ATV inside - and again, simply iterative.
So what IS the next new thing we don't know we need yet, but will flock to in the 10's of millions?? Is it in their labs? Are assembly lines and components being ramped up for it?
Worst case, they should remain a hugely profitable company for a while, but lacking a new blockbuster will begin to conform to the growth curve of every company near their size, rather than defying history as they have the last few years. And others will start to catch up in "cool." So to remain a hyper-growth company (the biggest ever if they do it), and to keep their amazing mind-share, they have to keep breaking truly new ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha
Apple's proven track record of stealing IP from others will not go down well. (Motorola (FRAND Patents), SysnetX, SB (clock)) are just some that come to mind.
What are you talking about? Firstly there is nothing that compares to East Texas in the world. Have you any statistics about this that you can share?? I thought not because what you imply is a lie. Are you talking about VirnetX??? Oh that problem will go away after Cisco is finished with them. After an appeal after the East Texas assholes whatever they decide doesnt matter it can really be just overturned by someone with some intelligence in the upper foodchain.This has happened many times to patent trolls/nonpracticing entities. But as you say the show aint over untill the fat lady sings = Appeal is handled.
Motorolas Patents are exhausted by Qualcomms license (which Motorola terminated unlawfully, I mean Google!).
SB are we talking about SBB=?, I quess so: since when has a clock been the selling point of any smartphone? Well i could have drawn such a clock quite easily without ever seeing SBB:s clocks. But i quess Apple didnt want to spend time on this in courts and wanted to pay instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65
I expect little to no money changed hands, but Apple likely got an "anti-copying" provision like they did when they licensed to Microsoft.
Good for both parties IMO.
I expect significant money per phone to go Apple's way. HTC owns very little IP. It acquired some just to try and defend itself. The patent cases were going poorly for it. More importantly, the lawsuits were a drain on its ability to focus on building phones.
With that said, being that HTC's phones copy Apple the least and it wasn't selling a lot of them in comparison to Samsung, Apple probably was willing to settle for less than Apple wanted. More importantly, the settlement sends a strong message to the other Android users.
Microsoft did this right from the get go by simply asking for a relatively reasonable licensing rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr
Someone above wrote:
"Since Apple sued Samsung and others, its shares have fallen by over $100+, Sales have fallen all over the world and samsung is beating them in sales, Apple is also losing cases against everyone in court that sues them... Companies are lining up to sue Apple.
I saw this coming when Apple shares were over $700.
I just hope Apple realize that they need to make more than one phone model/design to beat the market. one cannot rule them all anymore as people want different styles or bigger screens."
Apple sued these companies YEARS ago. Since then, the stock has RISEN hundreds of dollars. Apple sales are GROWING worldwide except in quarters preceding releases of new models. Not-so-coincidentally THESE are the quarters when IDC reports Apple's loss of market share. I'll let you do the math, but I'll give you the answer in advance: look for Apple to report RECORD QUARTERLY PROFIT in January. Not just for them, but for any company in any quarter. I'll let you knee-jerk reactors to sweat out the daily news reports instead of understanding what is really happening.
Thompson
Apple's stock is fell because the whole market crashed and the stock was shorted and talked down by so called analysts. They will now buy back into the stock and ride it back up again. Then they will start the whole process over again.
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Originally Posted by habi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha
Apple's proven track record of stealing IP from others will not go down well. (Motorola (FRAND Patents), SysnetX, SB (clock)) are just some that come to mind.
What are you talking about? Firstly there is nothing that compares to East Texas in the world. Have you any statistics about this that you can share?? I thought not because what you imply is a lie. Are you talking about VirnetX??? Oh that problem will go away after Cisco is finished with them. After an appeal after the East Texas assholes whatever they decide doesnt matter it can really be just overturned by someone with some intelligence in the upper foodchain.This has happened many times to patent trolls/nonpracticing entities. But as you say the show aint over untill the fat lady sings = Appeal is handled.
Motorolas Patents are exhausted by Qualcomms license (which Motorola terminated unlawfully, I mean Google!).
SB are we talking about SBB=?, I quess so: since when has a clock been the selling point of any smartphone? Well i could have drawn such a clock quite easily without ever seeing SBB:s clocks. But i quess Apple didnt want to spend time on this in courts and wanted to pay instead.
Sorry, I missed this one. (On a business trip, no internet last week).
I think we share an aversion to patent trolls. Whether VirnetX is in fact purely a patent troll seems to be debatable (I don't know one way or the other). I am not so sure that this judgement will in fact be overturned as easily as you seem to think. I would have expected both Apple and Microsoft (both of which lost in the first instance) to be equally capable as Cisco in litigation.
But anyway, the point is that if you wish to define "IP" as what is patentable/patented or copyrighted, then the rules apply both ways. In the FRAND debate, apple has been using motorola frand patents without paying a cent, or being willing to negotiate in good faith for licensing terms, for years and years. Using the current lingo, this amounts to theft. The F in FRAND does NOT mean FREE. Either you pay up (after negotiations on the terms, cross-licensing etc), or you don't use the IP. To many people, apple is being hypocritical in getting on a high horse when a competitor "steals" their IP (particularly when these are trivial patents that shouldn't have been awarded in the first place), while whining like a spoilt child when they get sued themselves.
Whether or not Apple's argument re Patent Exhaustion is a winner or not is not yet a resolved issue in the litigation. It is an assertion from Apple. No more, no less.