Apple on pace to sell 4.8M Macs in holiday quarter, down 7% year over year

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  • Reply 81 of 119
    ecsecs Posts: 307member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post





    People associate Apple with quality, not cheap crap.


     


    That's no longer the case:


     


    1- The new 2012 Mac Mini has serious HDMI bugs (likely hardware bugs related to the HD4000) and Apple doesn't look too interested in fixing it. A big number of new Mini owners are quite upset about this bug, and others are holding their purchase as you can see in quite a few threads at Apple Discussions (Mac Mini forum).


     


    2- The iMac... well, there's no iMac to begin with. And, once it's released, it will first need to be proven that the new form factor can do good use of the GPU and the CPU without heat issues. The previous iMac has been famous for screen-decoloration when using it for intense CPU work, and the new design doesn't look more heat efficient than the previous one.


     


    3- The Mac Pro... well... it shouldn't cost Apple more than one month to design a brand-new Mac Pro, with a rebirth of the cube form factor if you wish. But it seems they don't have anybody working full time on the new Mac Pro, so, when they said the new Mac Pro was coming in 2013, they meant "end of 2013". It's quite likely that the recent rumor about Apple employees having "free weeks" for working in alternative projects was meant as the way they've planned to develop the new Mac Pro (as a voluntary project for the spare time of iPad/iPhone engineers).


     


     


    You know, the policy of investing more money and resources in the products that generate you more income (iOS in this case) isn't always a safe strategy. It might mean that you need to reinforce the products that you're currently selling less. If you neglect these other products, you'll lose your position in the market. And, yes, Apple is neglecting the Mac, because they're not only investing more in iOS, but reducing the investment on the Mac.

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  • Reply 82 of 119

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


     


     


    Can't. If Apple wants to maintain quality, margins, and continue to dominate in PC consumer satisfaction (for many years now), they need to forego market share in favour of simply being the best, but with barriers to consumer entry that are naturally occurring with the necessary increase in price. 


     


    I really don't think Apple minds that situation.


     


    Where the Mac can't go in retail, however, the iPad will. 


     


    It's a win-win for Apple. 



     


    It is a false impression that Apple dominates in PC consumer satisfaction. The reason is that Apple refuses to offer computers for the masses. All other manufacturers are totally capable of offering the same high-quality PC/laptops.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post





    People associate Apple with quality, not cheap crap.


     


    This is the reason why the Androids are now dominating over the IOS ecosystem, the same way Microsoft is dominating in the PC market.


    As a result Apple is losing market share in the both the PC/tablet and the smartphone market segments.

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  • Reply 83 of 119
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    v5v wrote: »
    Is it really? I don't know...

    My hard drive died last weekend so I replaced it with a Seagate hybrid. Beyond an improvement in boot time -- not what I'd call dramatic, but clearly apparent -- I haven't really noticed any difference. I wonder if use patterns affect the degree of improvement one realizes?

    A Seagate hybrid drive is not the same thing as Fusion. I am also not terribly impressed with the hybrid drive, but Fusion operates quite differently. Only time will tell whether it's as good as claimed.
    v5v wrote: »
    If Mac sales actually are down at the end of the quarter, will anyone THEN be willing to consider the possibility that maybe the current direction of hardware development is less appealing to buyers? I don't begrudge Jony the right to jerk off however he wants, but I just wish he would also consider MY needs.

    Why should he consider your needs? How many thousands of computers do you plan to buy?

    Apple does an exceptional job of serving the needs of people in their target audience.
    v5v wrote: »
    8. Having to choose between inadequate storage and RAM or paying absolutely EGREGIOUS upgrade prices. $2/GB for storage?! That's insulting.

    Here's a clue - upgrade prices are expensive from all vendors. And Apple's upgrade prices are not insulting compared to what everyone else charges for the same item. They are sometimes on the high side, but not ridiculously so. Ten years ago, your complaint had some validity. It no longer does.
    ifij775 wrote: »
    The entry level storage size does seem like a bait-and-switch, but maybe there are people that don't really need any storage.

    Maybe you should learn what 'bait and switch' entails. Apple offers a wide range of machines to hit different price points. They will certainly sell you the cheapest machine if you want it, but they obviously hope you'll buy a higher level machine. That's not bait and switch.
    h2p wrote: »
    Apple has Zero New iMacs available as I write this. Only refurbs if you want a DVD drive and a discount.

    I am a bit puzzled that you can't even Pre-order the 21.5". Is the (screen) "welding" problem worse than my beloved Apple is letting on?

    Yes, that's surprising - and very unusual for Apple. I'd be really curious why they didn't continue to offer the older model while the new one was being prepared. Sure, sales would have dropped off, but there would still be an iMac available to buy.
    They will still make more money from macs than all other OEMs (together) from PCs.

    It's about choice. I seriously hope they axe the regular 13 and 15, so they can focus on retinas and airs, imacs (why not a smaller one, like 19?), mac pro (updated like it should). That's it.

    They should also stop all iPods bar the touch.

    All Apple software (besides trully pro apps) should be free (OS, iwork, ilife and they should make one game)

    axe 16gb iphones (use 128gb models), maybe another iPhone model (bigger).

    That's it. They are making too many devices... who cares about markets share. The mac is proof that marketshare does not matter that much in order to provide the best experience and earn the most money.

    I'm still waiting for the part where you show us your experience that makes your opinion so valid. After all, you must know more about the design, manufacture, and marketing of computers than Apple does in order to make such claims, right?
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  • Reply 84 of 119
    sr2012sr2012 Posts: 896member
    Well, pity, because the iMac would have been awesome. If it came out in time (aka as scheduled). I love ya Tim Cook, but I gotta wonder what's going on. All the best, but, I don't know, I'm a little scared about this kind of stuff happening now to Apple.
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  • Reply 85 of 119

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post







    I'm still waiting for the part where you show us your experience that makes your opinion so valid. After all, you must know more about the design, manufacture, and marketing of computers than Apple does in order to make such claims, right?


    Calm down.


     


    it's clearly that Apple is growing to quickly and doing too much (look at recent "mistakes", like screatches on iphones, icloud problems, bugs on both OSes, etc.)


    they should stop doing what isn't important to their ecosystem so they can focus on it.

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  • Reply 86 of 119


    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

    Given a major refresh of the Mac product line-up, why are sales expected to be down?!


     


    They're STILL not selling a product called 'iMac'. I find it bothersome at best.





    Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

    They need to reduce prices and produce models for the general public at all price points so that their market share can be increased.


     


    Steve Ballmer, get back to work. Maybe you can see why this idea is so stupid after yet another product failure. image





    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

    …the iMac not yet - almost a two month wait so far.


     


    Hasn't even been a single month.





    Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

    The drop in Apples stock may have made their products seem less attractive.


     


    No one cares about that.





    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

    The reason the mini is so expensive is because they choose to basically make it from laptop parts which are more expensive.


     


    N~o… It's expensive because of the engineering, and fitting any computer of any size into that sort of box.






    Apple is obsessed with thin and light even for their desktop line where it really is not very important since you probably never move it ever.



     


    What does moving it have to do with making it thin and light?





    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

    If anything the Mini represents a significant piece of crap if you consider what you get for the price ( this in comparison to other Apple hardware).


     


    The Mac Mini is a MacBook Pro without the screen. Are you suggesting that the screen in the MacBook Pro costs twice as much as the rest of its hardware combined?





    Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

    image


     


    You realize that's physically impossible, right? Heat.





    Originally Posted by v5v View Post

    …a Seagate hybrid.


     


    That's not at ALL what Fusion Drive is.

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  • Reply 87 of 119
    Apple needs to be downgraded as quickly as possible. Down 7% YOY is a freaking disaster for Apple. Even if they made it up in iPads, it's still no good. Apple is definitely slipping away from dominance. I'm sure Dell will sell tens of millions of computers. Probably even H-P will, too. If Munster says Apple should sell a certain amount of product and fails to do so, then that's the end for Apple.
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  • Reply 88 of 119


    Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

    Apple needs to be downgraded as quickly as possible. Down 7% YOY is a freaking disaster for Apple. Even if they made it up in iPads, it's still no good. Apple is definitely slipping away from dominance. I'm sure Dell will sell tens of millions of computers. Probably even H-P will, too. If Munster says Apple should sell a certain amount of product and fails to do so, then that's the end for Apple.


     


    Still need an /s on the end of these. image

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  • Reply 89 of 119
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Calm down.

    it's clearly that Apple is growing to quickly and doing too much (look at recent "mistakes", like screatches on iphones, icloud problems, bugs on both OSes, etc.)
    they should stop doing what isn't important to their ecosystem so they can focus on it.

    I'm still waiting for the evidence that you know how to run the company better than Apple does.

    Are they perfect? Of course not. But they're the best out there - so you must have some pretty impressive credentials since you know more about running a multibillion dollar electronics company than Apple. So where are they?
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  • Reply 90 of 119
    ipenipen Posts: 410member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by peter236 View Post


    They need to reduce prices and produce models for the general public at all price points so that their market share can be increased.



     


    Sorry, that's not the Apple style.  Keep up the price and screw with the market share.  The loyal ones will buy.

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  • Reply 91 of 119


    Originally Posted by ipen View Post

    The loyal ones will buy.


     


    What's the implication here?

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  • Reply 92 of 119
    mactacmactac Posts: 321member


    I'm holding out to see if next year Apple finally comes out with a Mac that meets my needs. The mini and the iMac don't yet the Mac Pro is overkill. I fully expect to be once again disappointed though. I will use my old Mac until it just won't cut it anymore (getting close to that) and have to leave Apple after 20 years in order to get the type of computer hardware I want.


    The bummer is having to do without the OS I prefer. I'm not ready to risk a HackIntosh.

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  • Reply 93 of 119


    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post

    I will use my old Mac until it just won't cut it anymore…


    What's this? Someone using their computer until it doesn't do what they want it to do? NO. YOU DON'T EXIST. ????


     




    …have to leave Apple after 20 years in order to get the type of computer hardware I want.



     


    This is insane, though. I mean, really.

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  • Reply 94 of 119
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    mactac wrote: »
    I'm holding out to see if next year Apple finally comes out with a Mac that meets my needs. The mini and the iMac don't yet the Mac Pro is overkill. I fully expect to be once again disappointed though. I will use my old Mac until it just won't cut it anymore (getting close to that) and have to leave Apple after 20 years in order to get the type of computer hardware I want.
    The bummer is having to do without the OS I prefer. I'm not ready to risk a HackIntosh.

    This is silly. Between the Mini, the iMac, the Pro, and all the laptops, Apple offers a nice range.

    So what are your super-special needs that Apple doesn't meet?
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  • Reply 95 of 119
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    the comparison is made on a guess of this year and last year's whole numbers.  and it's an Estimate based on an Estimate (It's not even Gene's numbers, but his interpretations of NPD's numbers).

    It's not a real decline until apple posts numbers.

    What sort of bizarre logic is apple stock price have to do with consumer purchase?   I've heard that in the past by the corporate sales Microsoft/IBM FUDdie duddies  ('Don't buy that, they'll be out of business next year'), but really?

    The reasons for not a buying a mac now are pretty obvious.

    We are still in a consumer recession.   if there are 12Million people out of work... they sure as sh*t aren't buying a new $1000 device.  They may buy a phone, but a $1000 mac?  hardly.  Remember, we're 4 years into it now... Mac sales have grown in real numbers through out this mess, and just now are starting to taper off, probably because most people are 'making do' (My last Mac purchase was 2.5 years ago, and I'm in Tech... See next).

    True. Recession is hurting all computer sales, in general (though I believe some OEMs have reported growth compared to previous year, like Asus)... so I'd expect Macs to be hurt, to some degree at least. In fact, it seems logical to me that some people will lower their standards and opt to buy cheaper computer that will serve them good enough, in this economy.
    The negative impact of Quality:  Mac Products last longer than 3 years.  My Macbooks are 3 and 4 years old.  My Son in grad school is running on a 2003 G4 Titanium Powerbook (granted we cobbled it together with another when one motherboard died and the other's screen died in 2008).  My other son in med school replaced a 2005 MacBookPro. with a new MBA in August.

    I'd expect that this hasn't changed much in the last few years - Macs reliability - so that shouldn't start making difference now. I would expect, however, that hardware has reached level where everyday usage doesn't benefit from newer and faster. Last year, I gave my Core 2 Duo laptop from 2008 to my brother, and he is apsolutely happy with it. He is emailin, browsing, FBing, organizing his photos, other usual staff - YouTube, DivX watching... since that is where his interest in computers ends, I can see him using that machine for as long as it works. Add that to poor economy, and it might be IT.
    Win8 and Surface Release:  I think a lot of potential MBA buyers held off until the new crop of Microsoft stuff came to market.  Give them 6 months;-), and 25% will be craigslist fodder and they'll buy a MBA or an iPad.

    I'd be surprised. If anything, release of iPad 4 should defer people from buying Air, not release of Surface. I don't think that too many - if any - Mac users would switch to Windows tablet, especially first gen unknown entity like Surface. If Surface and other W8 tablets are hurting computer sales, that would be Windows ultrabook and laptop sales predominantly.
    Self Competition: I wouldn't be surprised if the new iPad and Mini cannibalizes the MBA/iMac. How many people NEED a brand new desktop mac?  your old mac works just fine when you are wandering through the house with absolutely beautiful iPad 4 or light as a feather iPadMini connected via icloud.

    (my iPad does a better job with mp4s than my mac, and it's brutally easy to AirPlay them to my TVs... I've got one long HDMI cable for sale because of this).

    Now we are talking... but there also might be some unforeseen reasons. I came across this by accident - a friend of mine, who is BMW enthusiast (being German from Bavaria) and Mac user, likes to repost BMW NZ FB posts. Following is one of them, and I don't have any clue how legit it is; I would likely doubt it if released by Apple competitors, but I cannot see a reason why BMW would do something like that.

    Quote: Global RepTrack 2012 surveyed 47,000 people from 15 countries, including North America and Europe, ranking the reputation of the top 100 global companies. The Reputation Institute determined BMW as the world’s Most Reputable Company. Brand recognition and awareness are two of the most powerful attributes that identify a successful company – what other qualities make BMW world leading in your eyes?

    700

    Of course, this is BMW marketing... but if this is legit, Apple reputation slipped from 2nd to 5th spot in a year time. Google did even worst, going from 1st to 6th... but MS appeared from nowhere (below top ten in 2011, obviously) to 7th.

    Is this possible? I believe so. This is 1st post-Jobs year for Apple, after all. Regardless of how useful Jobs was for Apple in the last decade, situation with company being associated with CEO on such level must cause some issues in public eye once CEO is not around any more... and Apple management did pull some moves which, if you are not one of Apple's faithful, can shake your trust in the company. In short, Apple is sailing through storm caused by Jobs death (even if that storm is only perceived in the eye of public), and there is not much to do but to endure through and rebuild company's post-Jobs image as good as possible.
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  • Reply 96 of 119
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rayz View Post


     And which 'goodwill' product, of the hundreds of hardware/software combinations that Mac users ask for, should they pick? Your particular favourite? Someone else's?



     


    I have a few suggestions:


     


    1. Once a year at Thanksgiving the President of the United States chooses one product and grants it amnesty. Unfortunately this means the Turkey has to go.


     


    2. At passover the Roman Governor lets the people choose one product to be spared from execution. Of course, sometimes innocent devices like the 17" MacBook Pro or iWeb will be crucified anyway, but then they go and sit on the right hand of Jobs.


     


    3. Any product accused of not justifying its existence must be tried by a jury of its users before it can be discontinued. If the jury finds the product guilty it is discontinued. If they find it not guilty, production continues. No product may be tried more than once for the same quarterly sales figures.


     


    4. Apple sells tickets for an annual lottery. The holder of the winning ticket gets to tell Jony what they want him to build.


     


    5. War games. Parties interested in preserving a product field an army and go to war for it. Apple may choose to mobilize its own forces to defeat it. Several factions may all do battle at the same time, each for its own product. The winning army gets to keep its product. Coalitions will not be permitted as they may result in things like computers that are so thin they can't dissipate the heat of full speed drives and... um... oh.

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  • Reply 97 of 119
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



    Why should he consider your needs? How many thousands of computers do you plan to buy?


     


    Point taken, but I don't think I'm alone. Take the example of the 17" MacBook Pro. There's no question that I see way more 15" machines in the field than any other size, but ALL of the people I know personally who use a portable computer for creating visual content chose a 17. It wasn't discontinued because it wasn't profitable, it just wasn't profitable ENOUGH.


     


    In a corporate culture driven solely by stock price, even good products are sacrificed for ones that generate greater growth. I think that's a little sad, and part of me naively hopes that the company built on the "Think Different" slogan might be willing to buck Wall Street a little to support the creative community, in much the same way I sometimes take less money to work on projects I like or with people I want to support.

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  • Reply 98 of 119
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



    Here's a clue - 


     


    Is that supposed to suggest I don't have one, or am I reading more into that than you intended? I hardly think my comment was over the top or even inaccurate, so if that's an insult I take exception.


     


     


     




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



    Apple's upgrade prices are not insulting compared to what everyone else charges for the same item. They are sometimes on the high side, but not ridiculously so. Ten years ago, your complaint had some validity. It no longer does.


     


    I strongly disagree. Apple's prices to upgrade storage and/or RAM in a Retina MacBook Pro are DOUBLE the going rate from ANY third-party supplier.


     


    In the case of RAM, we have no alternative so Apple is bending us over. I can't upgrade the RAM myself so I have no choice but to pay Apple's rip-off price, which is about twice what equivalent sticks cost from Crucial or OWC.


     


    As for storage, if I want more than 256GB it costs me at least $500 no matter what:


     


    Choice 1: Pay Apple $500 for an upgrade, even though that's twice as much per GB as the OWC module.


    Choice 2: Buy the OWC for $500 and use the supplied storage as a window ornament. There's literally ZERO resale market because there's only one model of computer in the entire world that can use it, and anyone who has that computer already has that storage module.


     


    Perhaps you are more tolerant than am I, but to me that's a slap in the face.

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  • Reply 99 of 119


    Originally Posted by v5v View Post

    …but ALL of the people I know personally who use a portable computer for creating visual content chose a 17.


     


    Now they can choose a 15" and a 27" display. Two of them, if they want.





    In a corporate culture driven solely by stock price…



     


    Ah, see, Apple isn't. So there goes your entire argument.

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  • Reply 100 of 119
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Now they can choose a 15" and a 27" display. Two of them, if they want.



     


    Ooo... that would be cool! I just need a bigger backpack. Way, way, WAY bigger. And a back brace. Hm, and maybe a little cart to haul around the generator, or do those 27" displays have batteries now?

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