Apple's recent executive shakeup was about 'collaboration,' Tim Cook says

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 62
    gazoobee wrote: »
    As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  

    As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  

    Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  

    Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 

    Alarming? Yes, it remains to be seen... but the guy has taste, no need to be alarmed if he has the ability to design beautiful designed software as well. Just don't think Ive:
    1. has the only vote in the matter at going to release any software. I'm sure it will go through all the regular decision makers,
    2. he could only design the looks of it, not specifically how the software works.
    3. I'm failling to see why any odds are against him. If anything, people have bought Apple products. Whether that is because the liked the looks of it or they think 'it just works' is not an either this or that situation.
  • Reply 22 of 62
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    People fix and program the robots. Both high and low-end American jobs.



     


    True. But this is relatively small potatoes. The general implication about "bringing manufacturing back to America" is about the hundreds of thousands or millions of jobs that will presumably result.


     


    More than that, the investment in tools like robots is also a cost/benefit analysis problem where the question of whether inexpensive labor can do the same job without buying the tools. I think most people just don't get that all of the factors like transport, labor, tool investments are all factored into the decisions to manufacture in places like China. If it was better and cheaper to build in the US, companies would be doing it. For some products it is. For some products it is not.

  • Reply 23 of 62

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    OK. Guess I don't see what the issue is with that. I mean he's not like Eric Schmidt giving interviews left and right saying stupid things.




    I could be wrong but so far it seems that Cook is only talking about Apple, unlike Schidt and Ballsmer, who like to criticize other companies.

  • Reply 24 of 62


    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

    The general implication about "bringing manufacturing back to America" is about the hundreds of thousands or millions of jobs that will presumably result.


     


    Complete nonsense. Apple is one company. No lone company could or would do that. Period. People need to get over their absolutely ludicrous expectations.




    You get the millions of jobs via dozens and hundreds of companies doing this. I want to see more companies stepping up to the government in places where there hasn't been change and saying, "Hey, we'll take it from here, yeah?" Have someone manufacture fiber in the US and have US workers out there, replacing copper with said fiber. Then have more US workers repurposing that copper. Etc (for other industries).


     


    I'm all for Apple bringing jobs back. But when their stock PLUMMETS after having not only exceeding expectations but breaking their own company records quarter after quarter after quarter, what do you think will happen when Apple brings, say, ten thousand jobs to the US? They'll be screamed at, vilified, and the only subject of any discussion on any news channel about jobs in America, in which Apple is nothing but a demon, not singlehandedly taking unemployment from 14 to 5%. Never mind that you'll not only hear absolutely nothing about any other company, none of them will have brought one single job back to this country.


     


    Slap the idiots in line first, then we can worry about Apple's real efforts to bring jobs here.

  • Reply 25 of 62
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Complete nonsense. Apple is one company. No lone company could or would do that. Period. People need to get over their absolutely ludicrous expectations.



     


    Slow down and chill. I wasn't speaking only about Apple.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    You get the millions of jobs via dozens and hundreds of companies doing this.



     


    But not if all they're doing is building robotic factories that have a few people maintaining the robots.


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    You get the millions of jobs via dozens and hundreds of companies doing this. I want to see more companies stepping up to the government in places where there hasn't been change and saying, "Hey, we'll take it from here, yeah?" Have someone manufacture fiber in the US and have US workers out there, replacing copper with said fiber. Then have more US workers repurposing that copper. Etc (for other industries).



     


    Which will be done when it makes economic sense to do so.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I'm all for Apple bringing jobs back.



     


    I don't rally care. But then, I don't have the same fetish some have about jobs being performed in certain specific geographical areas.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    But when their stock PLUMMETS after having not only exceeding expectations but breaking their own company records quarter after quarter after quarter, what do you think will happen when Apple brings, say, ten thousand jobs to the US?



     


    I suspect it will depend on the affect investors believe that move will have on the company's future profits and valuation.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    They'll be screamed at, vilified, and the only subject of any discussion on any news channel about jobs in America, in which Apple is nothing but a demon, not singlehandedly taking unemployment from 14 to 5%.



     


    And you were accusing me of uttering "complete nonsense" above. image image


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Slap the idiots in line first, then we can worry about Apple's real efforts to bring jobs here.



     


    The main thing I want to see Apple doing is to be creating and building great and amazing products. Them "bringing jobs here" is of little concern to me.

  • Reply 26 of 62
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    So reading between the lines, Tim Cook did not like Forstall and Forstall was incredibly political, basically building his own fiefdom within Apple and that's no-go with Cook.


     


    No need to read between the lines:


     


    "And there can’t be politics. I despise politics. There is no room for it in a company. My life is going to be way too short to deal with that. No bureaucracy. We want this fast-moving, agile company where there are no politics, no agendas.


     


    When you do that, things become pretty simple. You don’t have all of these distractions. You don’t have all of these things that companies generally worry about. You don’t have silos built up where everybody is trying to optimize their silo and figuring out how to grab turf and all of these things. It makes all of our jobs easier so we’re freed up to focus on the things that truly matter."


  • Reply 27 of 62


    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    But not if all they're doing is building robotic factories that have a few people maintaining the robots.



     


    Few! Ha. Not town-fulls, but not few.


     




    Which will be done when it makes economic sense to do so. I don't rally care. But then, I don't have the same fetish some have about jobs being performed in certain specific geographical areas. I suspect it will depend on the affect investors believe that move will have on the company's future profits and valuation. The main thing I want to see Apple doing is to be creating and building great and amazing products. Them "bringing jobs here" is of little concern to me.




     


    Yep, yep.


     




    And you were accusing me of uttering "complete nonsense" above. image image




     


    Yeah, no one ever lies about Apple in the news.

  • Reply 28 of 62
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    nht wrote: »
    No need to read between the lines:

    "And there can’t be politics. I despise politics. There is no room for it in a company. My life is going to be way too short to deal with that. No bureaucracy. We want this fast-moving, agile company where there are no politics, no agendas.

    <p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:6px;padding-left:0px;color:rgb(77,77,79);">When you do that, things become pretty simple. You don’t have all of these distractions. You don’t have all of these things that companies generally worry about. You don’t have silos built up where everybody is trying to optimize their silo and figuring out how to grab turf and all of these things. It makes all of our jobs easier so we’re freed up to focus on the things that truly matter."</p>
    So I think it's safe to say Steven Sinofsky will never be working at Apple. :lol:
  • Reply 29 of 62
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  


     


    As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  


     


    Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  


     


    Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 



     


    Hyperbole much?  What formal qualifications did Jobs have as a designer?  


     


    Cook is correct in that the UI and the physical design goes hand in hand...and it's hard to do excellent User Experience with two teams working to the tune of two different conductors.


     


    They aren't asking him to code for god's sake.

  • Reply 30 of 62
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,443moderator
    The more interviews Tim does, the more I see why Steve made him CEO.

    "You know? I don’t want to work with people I don’t like. Life is too short. So you do become friends. Life has too few friends."

    I don't like when he apologizes for things so much but I really like the character that comes through in the interview. It's not often we see someone with his values and morals in his position and the world would be a better place if we did.

    This is an interesting one:

    "We don’t subscribe to the vision that the OS for iPhones and iPads should be the same as Mac."

    I'd have liked to see a touch iMac and they have a patent for it so they've obviously considered it. That requires the UI to have a lot in common. It's unlikely that one UI will work for every usage scenario though.

    I'm on board with the collaboration agenda but I think there needs to be caution over just getting people with a better track record. Having a track record doesn't let you win tomorrow's race. Putting the iCloud and App Store teams on Siri and Maps isn't a guarantee for 'fixing' them. I regularly get 'could not connect to the iTunes Store' messages but I accept that networks have intermittent problems. They shouldn't beat themselves up about Maps and Siri - the media and competition are always going to chisel away at whatever cracks they can find because it's in their best interests to do it. Apologizing just validates it and in many cases is unjustified.
  • Reply 31 of 62


    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

    "We don’t subscribe to the vision that the OS for iPhones and iPads should be the same as Mac."

    I'd have liked to see a touch iMac and they have a patent for it so they've obviously considered it. That requires the UI to have a lot in common. It's unlikely that one UI will work for every usage scenario though.


     


    Nor will it be! Heck, the iPhone and iPad don't have the same UI. The iPhone and iPod nano don't have the same UI. But they're all touch. Different things work better in different places. There will be a multitouch, mouseless Mac. But it won't run "iOS".

  • Reply 32 of 62
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Few! Ha. Not town-fulls, but not few.



     


    Well, it is unlikely to be a lot. Those jobs are just gone. But that's okay. There are other, different jobs.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Yeah, no one ever lies about Apple in the news.



     


    I was responding to the idea of Apple single-handedly lowering the unemployment rate by such an amount or even (allowing for exaggeration for effect) any measurable amount. But, yes, I agree that despite the many great things Apple does, someone always find a nit to pick.

  • Reply 33 of 62

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post





    Totally agree! Tim, don't go soft on us! And for god'a sake, DO NOT BRING MANUFACTURING TO THE US!!!!! You have a fiduciary duty to your stockholders that says DON'T DO IT!!!!!


     


    I totally disagree. This will greatly increase the appeal of Apple's, which is already incredibly valuable, but has been under fire for it's manufacturing practices as of late. A manufacturer bringing manufacturing jobs back to the USA!!!! That's going to greatly increase their appeal. 

  • Reply 34 of 62

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post





    Totally agree! Tim, don't go soft on us! And for god'a sake, DO NOT BRING MANUFACTURING TO THE US!!!!! You have a fiduciary duty to your stockholders that says DON'T DO IT!!!!!


     


    How patriotic of you — putting money before country, and individual gain for a few over the shared interest of the whole community. Let's see how much cheerleading you do for wealthy stockholders when your job disappears overseas so that they can make incrementally more money than they already have. (CNN: "About 46% of dividends awarded in 2010 went to investors in the top 1%, according to a Tax Policy Center analysis.")


     


    Besides, several Apple and Foxconn executives have already said that the chief advantage of assembling overseas is not cost, but of the availability and flexibility of large numbers of engineers. But you maybe you don't read (or retain) articles that contradict to your apparent Ayn Rand / "profit über alles" worldview.


     


    The kool-aid is strong in this one ...


  • Reply 35 of 62

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


     


    Possibly. I don't know. But I thought the whole "build it in America" fetishists were all about employing people in America to build things.



     


    Yeah, 'cause wanting a job is a "fetish" — I guess that makes you a fetishist, unless you inherited all of your money ...

  • Reply 36 of 62
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post


     


    Yeah, 'cause wanting a job is a "fetish" — I guess that makes you a fetishist, unless you inherited all of your money ...



     


    image image


     


    Ooooh...how clever...you turned what I did say into something I didn't say in order to make a point. In the trade we call that a straw man.


     


    image

  • Reply 37 of 62
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mynameisjoe View Post


    I totally disagree. This will greatly increase the appeal of Apple's, which is already incredibly valuable, but has been under fire for it's manufacturing practices as of late. A manufacturer bringing manufacturing jobs back to the USA!!!! That's going to greatly increase their appeal. 



     


    Maybe.

  • Reply 38 of 62
    am8449am8449 Posts: 392member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  


     


    As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  


     


    Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  


     


    Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 



     


    Your comment makes sense to me, intuitively.  But please give a concrete example of how 3D and 2D design requires different sets of skills, so that I can understand your point better.

  • Reply 39 of 62
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post


    But you maybe you don't read (or retain) articles that contradict to your apparent Ayn Rand / "profit über alles" worldview.



     


    Interesting that you try to insult someone for adhering to what you perceive as an Ayn Randian worldview while spouting what is clearly your own Marxist/socialist worldview.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Beezlegrunk View Post


     


    How patriotic of you...


     


    The kool-aid is strong in this one ...



     


    Funny that you speak of "kool-aid" drinking while mocking someone's (lack of) "patriotism."

     


    How very ironic of you. Was all that intentional?

  • Reply 40 of 62
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    As far as I'm aware, this is the very first time we've heard anything this explicit about Ive's new role and I find this comment absolutely alarming.  it remains to be seen what talents Ive has in software design, but one thing is for certain .. he has absolutely no actual qualifications in that area.  


     


    As a former designer myself, I can say that no one in the design field would ever make the assumption that Cook is apparently making here.  Skill at 3D design or industrial design simply does not equate to skill in 2D design, production design, or software design.  They are completely different things.  


     


    Perhaps there is more to it than is apparent from Cook's comments, but if (as seems apparent) he is basically saying, "Well, Jony is great at designing the hardware so we thought we'd put him in charge of the look and feel of the software too."  then Apple could easily be making a horrible mistake here.  


     


    Taste is not universal.  You can be an excellent Industrial designer and still be a wearer of ugly sweaters who likes to watch "Family Guy."  Let's hope that against all odds, Jony Ive turns out to be a world leader at something he's never even been trained for.  The odds are against it however. 



    history proves you wrong in so many ways.  Some of the most brilliant designers in history were not trained in their specified field, and many went on to do innovative work in other fields of design as well.


     


    Look at Frank Lloyd Wright.  Some call him the "Greatest American Architect".  He was self taught and designed some of the most innovative and creative work of his breed.  He designed buildings, but also 2D art as well, like wall hangings, stained glass, rugs, and various other graphic arts.  He also design furniture and even table settings.


     


    Look at the Eames'.  Charles was an architect by training, but went on to design some of the most innovative furniture in the 20th century.   His group also did film and games and home accessories and Graphic design.


     


    It takes a special type of Eye for design to make a truly great designer, one that can think about design from every genre.  I have no doubt Team Ives has that talent. Not to mention 20 years nearly of experience leading and collaborating at Apple.  I have no doubt he will be great.

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