I am not certain how a group within MS becomes so insulated as to believe this was actually a good idea.
That someone from Dell had to point it out to them should only serve as a case and point and irrefutable evidence.
Perhaps they are trying to be more like car companies - no you can't buy an Acura Legend, or Integra, you have to have a Acura TLX, or and Acura RLT, or an Acura BLT, because that is soooo much easier for the consumer.
Perhaps they are trying to be more like car companies - no you can't buy an Acura Legend, or Integra, you have to have a Acura TLX, or and Acura RLT, or an Acura BLT, because that is soooo much easier for the consumer.
Obviously a typo in the article, since this should really say "$899 for the 30-ish GB version after installing Windows 8" If MS can cut the past loose, they have a chance. But either Ballmer is too afraid or Gates won't let him. Sad.
So people are going to try install and run a Windows app that's not available through the Windows store? Is that what you're saying people are going to try and do?
Do people really want to install OS X apps on their iPads? No?
Then why do people not seem to comprehend the reasoning behind RT? Its a tablet OS that shares certain usability features with Windows 8.
Apple was very careful to make the distinction between the iPad and a Mac computer. They advertised the iPad as a whole new category of devices - they didn't call it the SnowLeopardPad or the LionPad, or the OS X Pad, or the tablet that runs OSX RT.
I'm very surprised a company the size of MS with all the MBAs they have why they can't figure out basic sales and marketing. This tells me they have no idea what they are doing up in Redmond.
They lack any stressing of common goals. Each department is its own fiefdom, competing with one another for favor and funding. Even worse is the forced competition within each department, due to long-term deployment of the "stack ranking" performance evaluation method, which is only supposed to be used during mergers and other short-term affairs.
lilgto64
Perhaps they are trying to be more like car companies - no you can't buy an Acura Legend, or Integra, you have to have a Acura TLX, or and Acura RLT, or an Acura BLT, because that is soooo much easier for the consumer.
Microsoft learned it from their PC manufacturing partners. Naming conventions for HP, Dell, and others are mostly meaningless, and any internal logic is completely lost on your average consumer: Best Buy customers who randomly pick one off the shelf.
So people are going to try install and run a Windows app that's not available through the Windows store? Is that what you're saying people are going to try and do?
Do people really want to install OS X apps on their iPads? No?
Then why do people not seem to comprehend the reasoning behind RT? Its a tablet OS that shares certain usability features with Windows 8.
That's why you have "iOS" and "OS X." Sure, some features are interchangeable, but do people confuse one for the other? No. Calling a new tablet system "OS X RT" would have been confusing, just as calling the Surface system "Windows RT" confuses the heck out of average consumer. They think it's Windows, so it must run everything just the same... In for a surprise... ;-)
If you put a Windows RT tablet next to a Windows 8 tablet, most people aren't going to notice the difference. So they grab the RT tablet, get home and can't use their applications.
Right now, Microsoft is the new HP. They are desperate so they are just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Ballmer needs to go. Let the XBox team run Microsoft.
Ever notice how Xbox doesn't run Windows PPC? I am surprised they didn't sell the Surface with Windows RT as an Xbox device, and leave the Surface Pro to run Windows.
You can go back and forth until the cows come home, but the underlying problem with Microsoft is that they don't think like engineers -- they think like business people. MS only cares about the bottom line. It's a self-defeating way of operating.
If you put a Windows RT tablet next to a Windows 8 tablet, most people aren't going to notice the difference. So they grab the RT tablet, get home and can't use their applications.
Right now, Microsoft is the new HP. They are desperate so they are just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Ballmer needs to go. Let the XBox team run Microsoft.
J Allard and Robbie Bach already left Microsoft. Know what's ironic? The Microsoft executive who was staunchly opposed to Microsoft doing their own game console was Steve Ballmer. Ballmer thought Microsoft should license "Windows for Game Consoles" (it wasn't called that, but that was the idea) to companies like Dell. In fact, game developers could license Windows CE for the base OS on SEGA Dreamcast, as an alternative to coding directly to Dreamcast hardware.
You can go back and forth until the cows come home, but the underlying problem with Microsoft is that they don't think like engineers -- they think like business people. MS only cares about the bottom line. It's a self-defeating way of operating.
On the contrary, they do think like engineers. Designers understand how people view things, and interact with them. (sometimes badly but that is another story)
Engineers cant figure out why people would be confused by a totally different OS that can't run legacy apps since you did ad the letters RT at the end of Windows.
How could our customers, although they have been using some sort of Windows OS for the past 20 years be confused... we clearly added RT which makes it perfectly clear that it is totally different.
We are Microsoft. We paid 100 million to a firm of researchers to find out if it would actually be confusing. They said no after they sent us a bill for an additional 20 million just for the paperwork.
So people are going to try install and run a Windows app that's not available through the Windows store? Is that what you're saying people are going to try and do?
Mate, I've seen people who have downloaded iTunes.exe and wonder why they can't install it...
...on Android handsets.
Never underestimate what people are going to try to do with tech.
On the contrary, they do think like engineers. Designers understand how people view things, and interact with them. (sometimes badly but that is another story)
Engineers cant figure out why people would be confused by a totally different OS that can't run legacy apps since you did ad the letters RT at the end of Windows.
How could our customers, although they have been using some sort of Windows OS for the past 20 years be confused... we clearly added RT which makes it perfectly clear that it is totally different.
Engineers would not make that mistake. Used car salesmen would.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by UIGuy
Um, yeah. That whole RT designation. Dumb.
I am not certain how a group within MS becomes so insulated as to believe this was actually a good idea.
That someone from Dell had to point it out to them should only serve as a case and point and irrefutable evidence.
Perhaps they are trying to be more like car companies - no you can't buy an Acura Legend, or Integra, you have to have a Acura TLX, or and Acura RLT, or an Acura BLT, because that is soooo much easier for the consumer.
I'll have mine with extra bacon.
$899 for the 64 GB version? With Windows 8?
Obviously a typo in the article, since this should really say "$899 for the 30-ish GB version after installing Windows 8" If MS can cut the past loose, they have a chance. But either Ballmer is too afraid or Gates won't let him. Sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplatformer
What crap in Windows RT are you referring to?
Let's name the "irrelevant on tablet" Desktop mode and the WinSXS Dlls medusa directory as a few examples taking over 9GB of space on WinRT
This was obvious to most people (not just Jefferey Clarke), who are waiting for imminent measly sales figures to come out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
But I think that's where the problem lies (or is it lays?).
It's 'lay'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplatformer
So people are going to try install and run a Windows app that's not available through the Windows store? Is that what you're saying people are going to try and do?
Do people really want to install OS X apps on their iPads? No?
Then why do people not seem to comprehend the reasoning behind RT? Its a tablet OS that shares certain usability features with Windows 8.
Apple was very careful to make the distinction between the iPad and a Mac computer. They advertised the iPad as a whole new category of devices - they didn't call it the SnowLeopardPad or the LionPad, or the OS X Pad, or the tablet that runs OSX RT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
But I think that's where the problem lies (or is it lays?).
That's where the problem lies... unless the problem lay in the past.
("That is" signifying present, unless you meant "That was" signifying past)
Wow. I didn't even know until this article that Surface only runs custom apps. No wonder it's tanking.
Why would you release an OS that looks identical to your desktop OS, yet has none of it's features?
Incredibly stupid movie, microsoft.
kkerst
I'm very surprised a company the size of MS with all the MBAs they have why they can't figure out basic sales and marketing. This tells me they have no idea what they are doing up in Redmond.
They lack any stressing of common goals. Each department is its own fiefdom, competing with one another for favor and funding. Even worse is the forced competition within each department, due to long-term deployment of the "stack ranking" performance evaluation method, which is only supposed to be used during mergers and other short-term affairs.
lilgto64
Perhaps they are trying to be more like car companies - no you can't buy an Acura Legend, or Integra, you have to have a Acura TLX, or and Acura RLT, or an Acura BLT, because that is soooo much easier for the consumer.
Microsoft learned it from their PC manufacturing partners. Naming conventions for HP, Dell, and others are mostly meaningless, and any internal logic is completely lost on your average consumer: Best Buy customers who randomly pick one off the shelf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplatformer
So people are going to try install and run a Windows app that's not available through the Windows store? Is that what you're saying people are going to try and do?
Do people really want to install OS X apps on their iPads? No?
Then why do people not seem to comprehend the reasoning behind RT? Its a tablet OS that shares certain usability features with Windows 8.
That's why you have "iOS" and "OS X." Sure, some features are interchangeable, but do people confuse one for the other? No. Calling a new tablet system "OS X RT" would have been confusing, just as calling the Surface system "Windows RT" confuses the heck out of average consumer. They think it's Windows, so it must run everything just the same... In for a surprise... ;-)
Does Rovio have to develop Angry Birds twice; for the RT and the 8 Surface?
It may not SOUND that much different than having to do it for iOS, then OS X, but it is.
If your game makes $ on iOS, it can pay for the follow-on OS X development if necessary.
Plus by now your people are iOS experts.
Here, Rovio must say, "Does it have a prayer of selling on either one?"
It seems bad for developers.
Right now, Microsoft is the new HP. They are desperate so they are just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Ballmer needs to go. Let the XBox team run Microsoft.
Ever notice how Xbox doesn't run Windows PPC? I am surprised they didn't sell the Surface with Windows RT as an Xbox device, and leave the Surface Pro to run Windows.
J Allard and Robbie Bach already left Microsoft. Know what's ironic? The Microsoft executive who was staunchly opposed to Microsoft doing their own game console was Steve Ballmer. Ballmer thought Microsoft should license "Windows for Game Consoles" (it wasn't called that, but that was the idea) to companies like Dell. In fact, game developers could license Windows CE for the base OS on SEGA Dreamcast, as an alternative to coding directly to Dreamcast hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UIGuy
Um, yeah. That whole RT designation. Dumb.
I am not certain how a group within MS becomes so insulated as to believe this was actually a good idea.
That someone from Dell had to point it out to them should only serve as a case and point and irrefutable evidence.
"Someone" from Dell, not even the CEO, seems to be smarter than the top guy at Microsoft. How can the MS Board not get the big picture...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zogg
You can go back and forth until the cows come home, but the underlying problem with Microsoft is that they don't think like engineers -- they think like business people. MS only cares about the bottom line. It's a self-defeating way of operating.
On the contrary, they do think like engineers. Designers understand how people view things, and interact with them. (sometimes badly but that is another story)
Engineers cant figure out why people would be confused by a totally different OS that can't run legacy apps since you did ad the letters RT at the end of Windows.
How could our customers, although they have been using some sort of Windows OS for the past 20 years be confused... we clearly added RT which makes it perfectly clear that it is totally different.
We are Microsoft. We paid 100 million to a firm of researchers to find out if it would actually be confusing. They said no after they sent us a bill for an additional 20 million just for the paperwork.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplatformer
So people are going to try install and run a Windows app that's not available through the Windows store? Is that what you're saying people are going to try and do?
Mate, I've seen people who have downloaded iTunes.exe and wonder why they can't install it...
...on Android handsets.
Never underestimate what people are going to try to do with tech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by See Flat
On the contrary, they do think like engineers. Designers understand how people view things, and interact with them. (sometimes badly but that is another story)
Engineers cant figure out why people would be confused by a totally different OS that can't run legacy apps since you did ad the letters RT at the end of Windows.
How could our customers, although they have been using some sort of Windows OS for the past 20 years be confused... we clearly added RT which makes it perfectly clear that it is totally different.
Engineers would not make that mistake. Used car salesmen would.