Thumb drives are substantially more expensive than optical media, which are cheap enough that you can just give them away. I can understand Apple wanting to eliminate something that most people so rarely use, but, although they look cool, there isn't much in the way of real benefit to the user that required making the iMacs as thin as they are. The weight reduction does probably help Apple's margins in regard to materials and shipping, but, you buy an AIO at least in part because you want it AIO, and I think Apple was about 2 years premature on dropping the optical drives on these machines, especially considering that the MBPs (non-Retina) still have them.
If I were in the market for a new iMac, it wouldn't stop me (it would be crazy to let it stop you), but I would be a little annoyed to have to connect an external optical drive. Even though I don't use it that much, I still need it. I'd probably get over it, though.
VESA mounting. People have been doing it since Apple offered it. I've seen some nice, simple setups with the old-style Cinema Displays (and iMacs, and new ones) done up like that. It saves the foot's desk space.
The other advantage is that a VESA mount allows you to use the iMac in portrait. I know a lot of lawyers who mount their iMac (and second screen) this way.
VESA mounting. People have been doing it since Apple offered it. I've seen some nice, simple setups with the old-style Cinema Displays (and iMacs, and new ones) done up like that. It saves the foot's desk space.
I guess... But it seems like a lot of extra work for little reward. But why can't the new iMac be hung if one uses a specialized bracket like that. It's hardly flush against the wall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
It gets worse - I can see a day when tablets get bigger and laptops disappear. (Yes, I know) I can see a day when (most) laptops are tablets with a keyboard stand - possibly with track pad or even mouse optionally attached.
It was this image in relation to an article about the development of processors which made it click
Why do people keep complaining about optical drives. It's dying media. And if someone really needs one that badly you can get them quit cheap.
For us old timers it's deja vu all over again. The critics said the same things about the floppy disk. You can still get a USB floppy disk drive if you really need one but I suspect the market is not very big. In my opinion, after the DVD drive comes the disappearance of the hard drive. The OS will boot from RAM or the cloud, data will be stored in the cloud, and hard drives will be used mainly for back up or not at all. Technology marches on. In 1982 I bought a 300 baud analog modem for my Apple II+ and thought I was on the cutting edge... for about a month.
And for what it's worth, My wife and I have not rented or purchased a physical DVD disc since the ATV came out. My Blu-Ray player hasn't been turned on in over three years now.
Then, even a well informed monkey would do a better work than you.
Well, there are indeed some think that by repeating falsehoods and F.U.D that it will rub off on the masses. Ever since the death of you-know-who we have been hearing about how Apple is on a slow train to oblivion. Even though Apple is still rated at the top of customer satisfaction surveys we constantly hear about how it has all gone to hell and a hand basket. For some reason, since the day it was founded, there are those who simply can't accept the fact of its existence and pray for its demise daily. Go figure.
But why can't the new iMac be hung if one uses a specialized bracket like that. It's hardly flush against the wall.
It just can't use the old one; the one designed for all previous models. Something about how the stand was changed in the newest design or something. Oh, and how you'd have to take it apart completely to swap that out.
So, further to the ongoing discussion of whether or not some Apple upgrades/add-ons are "overpriced" compared to third-party solutions:
The OP cited a price range of $60-100. You're saying this one for $30 is more than adequate. If $30 is the "max" one should be paying for an optical drive, how do we rationalize Apple's own version costing more than TWO-AND-A-HALF TIMES as much?!
Thankfully optical drives are an area in which the user still has a third-party alternative, but I think this pretty effectively illustrates the point that Apple is positively GOUGING us on extras.
Performance wise I agree. I, however, think Apple made a few questionable design decisions here. Unlike a notebook, tablet, or phone, a desktop doesn't benefit from being horribly thin. The last iMac design was fine. There has been some stories popping up how this new Mac doesn't allow for some things like being wall mounted, which was possible with previous models.
Sure there are benefits. You're only looking at common benefits for the user. Think of benefits from Apple's perspective. It's much lighter and has a smaller volume box. This saves plenty on shipping and allows for more to be shipped. It uses less material which saves on aluminium costs.
With the box considerably lighter than before it's easier for more customers to setup the machine. It's possible that the nearly 50% reduction in weight could be the difference as to whether a sale can be made. For all we know Apple Store employees have reported people buying the 21.5" (or no iMac) because they couldn't set it up themselves due to the weight.
Then you have the aesthetics of the device. This is a beautiful machine. I could buy the old style 27" iMac to save money right now but I want this new one. I think my decision has a lot to do with it's look (and because I couldn't find a 2011 iMac with the SSD+HDD on Apple's refurb site.)
The OP cited a price range of $60-100. You're saying this one for $30 is more than adequate. If $30 is the "max" one should be paying for an optical drive, how do we rationalize Apple's own version costing more than TWO-AND-A-HALF TIMES as much?!
Speed, build quality, design, drive type. There's going to be a difference. If your continued existence on this planet depends so much on uninterrupted access to a frigging optical drive, you'll be buying a multi-hundred dollar professional solution anyway.
For us old timers it's deja vu all over again. The critics said the same things about the floppy disk. ...
There's a difference though. When Apple removed the floppy disk from their computers, burnable optical media and drives were already relatively ubiquitous, and switching from one to the other wasn't that big a deal in terms of cost, convenience or distributing data on them. Also, floppies were really almost obsolete by then anyway because files and programs had gotten so large that you couldn't really fit much on a floppy, it wasn't really that useful. Also, they didn't really have any other significant uses.
With optical media, there are certainly other uses besides data storage, there isn't another cheap physical media already in place to take over their role, and the size of data being shared comfortably fits on a DVD, if not a CD, in most cases. I know the Internet is supposed to replace the optical drive, but the truth is that we aren't quite there, and it just doesn't work with all legacy technology. That's especially a problem when that legacy technology belongs to someone else, but they still expect you to get the data to them.
That's why I feel this isn't really analogous to eliminating the floppy drive -- the circumstances just aren't the same -- and Apple pulled the trigger on it, for desktops, at least, a few years too early.
Great idea! Next .. put what on the thumb drive? lol Anyone that technologically backward has to running XP! So how do I explain they watch the content of said thumb drive on their 60" TV in HD?
I have decided to take my iPad and an Apple TV and an AE plus an HDMI cable to their house and show them the 21st Century and see what happens
So, further to the ongoing discussion of whether or not some Apple upgrades/add-ons are "overpriced" compared to third-party solutions:
The OP cited a price range of $60-100. You're saying this one for $30 is more than adequate. If $30 is the "max" one should be paying for an optical drive, how do we rationalize Apple's own version costing more than TWO-AND-A-HALF TIMES as much?!
Thankfully optical drives are an area in which the user still has a third-party alternative, but I think this pretty effectively illustrates the point that Apple is positively GOUGING us on extras.
That's your conclusion? You look at a cheap looking tray-loading optical drive and conclude that Apple's slot-loading option is a rip off? Have you considered the components being used or did you make the erroneous assumption that because they do the same thing they are made exactly the same way with exactly the same components? You don't think Apple added quality where the user can't see it? Then check this out: http://www.arcfn.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html
So we've gone from "Apple should include an optical drive" to "Apple charges too much for their optical drive." Let's remember that it's an option. You don't have to pay Apple's whopping $79 for one that matches your Apple equipment or has a warranty that is easy to use or potentially will last much longer if you are frequent user. What TS is correct. If you have some odd need where you need to pull it out once a year then there is little reason not to go with the cheapest option.
I haven't used an optical in several years other than to install Snow Leopard on some client's Macs prior to upgrading to Lion or now Mountain Lion over the net.
Today a client just asked something I haven't heard for several years ... "Could you put all those pictures on a CD disk for me to watch on TV?".
I was stopped in my tracks ... I put HD on YouTube for people all the time and I did used to make DVDs in the pre HD days. I never went Blu-ray as I found internet delivery was great ... I realized this person wouldn't even understand the difference between SD and HD or that their TV being a 60" wide screen would not exactly make CD look good lol. What to do ???
So you've never heard of making a photoshow/slideshow of said pictures and put in on a dvd?
Chances are they think CD and DVD are one and the same given they look identical. A few simple questions would've solved your problem.
Speed, build quality, design, drive type. There's going to be a difference.
So, then why did you argue with OP's price range of $60-100? You said $30 max. If that's genuinely all that's required, then all that other stuff you mention above is obfuscation.
You can't have it both ways. Either your claim that $30 is the maximum one should spend was stated only to counter the OP's price argument and isn't actually true, or the Apple offering is priced outside realistic boundaries for the application. Which is it?
Is it so hard to design a machine which is unique, yet easy to produce in large amounts? Is it so hard to put the iMac internals into a cube whose side is the size of a MacMini? It would be nice looking, small, easy to produce, and provide far better cooling than the iMac. This odd special producing method for the ultra-thin new design is quite absurd, specially if you consider the new iMacs are quite thick in their center... if at least all the iMac was ultra-thin, there would be a reason for this special technique.
So, then why did you argue with OP's price range of $60-100? You said $30 max. If that's genuinely all that's required, then all that other stuff you mention above is obfuscation.
You can't have it both ways. Either your claim that $30 is the maximum one should spend was stated only to counter the OP's price argument and isn't actually true, or the Apple offering is priced outside realistic boundaries for the application. Which is it?
Do you mean superfluous, extraneous or irrelevant when you say obfuscation? Is it superfluous when you take a car to travel 20 meters when you could walk? How about if it's 200 miles away? Is it extraneous to take a plane 11 miles when you could drive? How about 1,100 miles? I think it depends on your usage type.
But you're trying to read too much into his comment. It would have been better worded as "You can get one for as little as $30" but he was responding to a comment that was claiming that $60 was the bare minimum, which simply isn't the case, so his response could be read as him saying that the maximum they'd have to consider paying would be $30.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
put it on a usb thumb drive.
Thumb drives are substantially more expensive than optical media, which are cheap enough that you can just give them away. I can understand Apple wanting to eliminate something that most people so rarely use, but, although they look cool, there isn't much in the way of real benefit to the user that required making the iMacs as thin as they are. The weight reduction does probably help Apple's margins in regard to materials and shipping, but, you buy an AIO at least in part because you want it AIO, and I think Apple was about 2 years premature on dropping the optical drives on these machines, especially considering that the MBPs (non-Retina) still have them.
If I were in the market for a new iMac, it wouldn't stop me (it would be crazy to let it stop you), but I would be a little annoyed to have to connect an external optical drive. Even though I don't use it that much, I still need it. I'd probably get over it, though.
Originally Posted by jragosta
Not very many TVs or DVD players have USB ports.
… You're kidding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
VESA mounting. People have been doing it since Apple offered it. I've seen some nice, simple setups with the old-style Cinema Displays (and iMacs, and new ones) done up like that. It saves the foot's desk space.
The other advantage is that a VESA mount allows you to use the iMac in portrait. I know a lot of lawyers who mount their iMac (and second screen) this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
VESA mounting. People have been doing it since Apple offered it. I've seen some nice, simple setups with the old-style Cinema Displays (and iMacs, and new ones) done up like that. It saves the foot's desk space.
I guess... But it seems like a lot of extra work for little reward. But why can't the new iMac be hung if one uses a specialized bracket like that. It's hardly flush against the wall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
It gets worse - I can see a day when tablets get bigger and laptops disappear. (Yes, I know) I can see a day when (most) laptops are tablets with a keyboard stand - possibly with track pad or even mouse optionally attached.
It was this image in relation to an article about the development of processors which made it click
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Why do people keep complaining about optical drives. It's dying media. And if someone really needs one that badly you can get them quit cheap.
For us old timers it's deja vu all over again. The critics said the same things about the floppy disk. You can still get a USB floppy disk drive if you really need one but I suspect the market is not very big. In my opinion, after the DVD drive comes the disappearance of the hard drive. The OS will boot from RAM or the cloud, data will be stored in the cloud, and hard drives will be used mainly for back up or not at all. Technology marches on. In 1982 I bought a 300 baud analog modem for my Apple II+ and thought I was on the cutting edge... for about a month.
And for what it's worth, My wife and I have not rented or purchased a physical DVD disc since the ATV came out. My Blu-Ray player hasn't been turned on in over three years now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
You =/= all users.
Then, even a well informed monkey would do a better work than you.
Well, there are indeed some think that by repeating falsehoods and F.U.D that it will rub off on the masses. Ever since the death of you-know-who we have been hearing about how Apple is on a slow train to oblivion. Even though Apple is still rated at the top of customer satisfaction surveys we constantly hear about how it has all gone to hell and a hand basket. For some reason, since the day it was founded, there are those who simply can't accept the fact of its existence and pray for its demise daily. Go figure.
Originally Posted by paxman
But why can't the new iMac be hung if one uses a specialized bracket like that. It's hardly flush against the wall.
It just can't use the old one; the one designed for all previous models. Something about how the stand was changed in the newest design or something. Oh, and how you'd have to take it apart completely to swap that out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
$30 at max.
So, further to the ongoing discussion of whether or not some Apple upgrades/add-ons are "overpriced" compared to third-party solutions:
The OP cited a price range of $60-100. You're saying this one for $30 is more than adequate. If $30 is the "max" one should be paying for an optical drive, how do we rationalize Apple's own version costing more than TWO-AND-A-HALF TIMES as much?!
Thankfully optical drives are an area in which the user still has a third-party alternative, but I think this pretty effectively illustrates the point that Apple is positively GOUGING us on extras.
Sure there are benefits. You're only looking at common benefits for the user. Think of benefits from Apple's perspective. It's much lighter and has a smaller volume box. This saves plenty on shipping and allows for more to be shipped. It uses less material which saves on aluminium costs.
With the box considerably lighter than before it's easier for more customers to setup the machine. It's possible that the nearly 50% reduction in weight could be the difference as to whether a sale can be made. For all we know Apple Store employees have reported people buying the 21.5" (or no iMac) because they couldn't set it up themselves due to the weight.
Then you have the aesthetics of the device. This is a beautiful machine. I could buy the old style 27" iMac to save money right now but I want this new one. I think my decision has a lot to do with it's look (and because I couldn't find a 2011 iMac with the SSD+HDD on Apple's refurb site.)
WINNER
great idea!... all tv sets (at least the new ones) have usb ports, and if they dont the playstation3/xbox does!
Originally Posted by v5v
The OP cited a price range of $60-100. You're saying this one for $30 is more than adequate. If $30 is the "max" one should be paying for an optical drive, how do we rationalize Apple's own version costing more than TWO-AND-A-HALF TIMES as much?!
Speed, build quality, design, drive type. There's going to be a difference. If your continued existence on this planet depends so much on uninterrupted access to a frigging optical drive, you'll be buying a multi-hundred dollar professional solution anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
For us old timers it's deja vu all over again. The critics said the same things about the floppy disk. ...
There's a difference though. When Apple removed the floppy disk from their computers, burnable optical media and drives were already relatively ubiquitous, and switching from one to the other wasn't that big a deal in terms of cost, convenience or distributing data on them. Also, floppies were really almost obsolete by then anyway because files and programs had gotten so large that you couldn't really fit much on a floppy, it wasn't really that useful. Also, they didn't really have any other significant uses.
With optical media, there are certainly other uses besides data storage, there isn't another cheap physical media already in place to take over their role, and the size of data being shared comfortably fits on a DVD, if not a CD, in most cases. I know the Internet is supposed to replace the optical drive, but the truth is that we aren't quite there, and it just doesn't work with all legacy technology. That's especially a problem when that legacy technology belongs to someone else, but they still expect you to get the data to them.
That's why I feel this isn't really analogous to eliminating the floppy drive -- the circumstances just aren't the same -- and Apple pulled the trigger on it, for desktops, at least, a few years too early.
It's obvious that there is short supply of them because an update is around the corner. Retina- finally! Digitimes said so.
Great idea! Next .. put what on the thumb drive? lol Anyone that technologically backward has to running XP!
I have decided to take my iPad and an Apple TV and an AE plus an HDMI cable to their house and show them the 21st Century and see what happens
That's your conclusion? You look at a cheap looking tray-loading optical drive and conclude that Apple's slot-loading option is a rip off? Have you considered the components being used or did you make the erroneous assumption that because they do the same thing they are made exactly the same way with exactly the same components? You don't think Apple added quality where the user can't see it? Then check this out: http://www.arcfn.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html
So we've gone from "Apple should include an optical drive" to "Apple charges too much for their optical drive." Let's remember that it's an option. You don't have to pay Apple's whopping $79 for one that matches your Apple equipment or has a warranty that is easy to use or potentially will last much longer if you are frequent user. What TS is correct. If you have some odd need where you need to pull it out once a year then there is little reason not to go with the cheapest option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I haven't used an optical in several years other than to install Snow Leopard on some client's Macs prior to upgrading to Lion or now Mountain Lion over the net.
Today a client just asked something I haven't heard for several years ... "Could you put all those pictures on a CD disk for me to watch on TV?".
I was stopped in my tracks ... I put HD on YouTube for people all the time and I did used to make DVDs in the pre HD days. I never went Blu-ray as I found internet delivery was great ... I realized this person wouldn't even understand the difference between SD and HD or that their TV being a 60" wide screen would not exactly make CD look good lol. What to do ???
So you've never heard of making a photoshow/slideshow of said pictures and put in on a dvd?
Chances are they think CD and DVD are one and the same given they look identical. A few simple questions would've solved your problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Speed, build quality, design, drive type. There's going to be a difference.
So, then why did you argue with OP's price range of $60-100? You said $30 max. If that's genuinely all that's required, then all that other stuff you mention above is obfuscation.
You can't have it both ways. Either your claim that $30 is the maximum one should spend was stated only to counter the OP's price argument and isn't actually true, or the Apple offering is priced outside realistic boundaries for the application. Which is it?
Is it so hard to design a machine which is unique, yet easy to produce in large amounts? Is it so hard to put the iMac internals into a cube whose side is the size of a MacMini? It would be nice looking, small, easy to produce, and provide far better cooling than the iMac. This odd special producing method for the ultra-thin new design is quite absurd, specially if you consider the new iMacs are quite thick in their center... if at least all the iMac was ultra-thin, there would be a reason for this special technique.
Please, an small cube shaped Mac. And soon.
On the verge of buying one, myself.
Do you mean superfluous, extraneous or irrelevant when you say obfuscation? Is it superfluous when you take a car to travel 20 meters when you could walk? How about if it's 200 miles away? Is it extraneous to take a plane 11 miles when you could drive? How about 1,100 miles? I think it depends on your usage type.
But you're trying to read too much into his comment. It would have been better worded as "You can get one for as little as $30" but he was responding to a comment that was claiming that $60 was the bare minimum, which simply isn't the case, so his response could be read as him saying that the maximum they'd have to consider paying would be $30.