Exactly, it's all bullshit. There were analysts yesterday saying Apple would report a loss. The whole thing is a joke. I'm going to get a margin call tomorrow. I've lost everything. I was never meant to be a stock trader. Time to get serious about focusing on my acting career.
I feel your pain. I bought a bunch at $679. It's been all downhill since then. Maybe I should announce when I buy so others can sell.
Exactly, it's all bullshit. There were analysts yesterday saying Apple would report a loss. The whole thing is a joke. I'm going to get a margin call tomorrow. I've lost everything. I was never meant to be a stock trader. Time to get serious about focusing on my acting career.
So sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, buying on margin always has its dicey component. There's no way around that.
I am not only holding on to mine, but going in for a little more with some stuff that I am selling in my portfolio. It might go down a bit more, but for the longer haul -- my time frame is 3 - 5 years -- I have absolutely no doubt about where it's headed.
Exactly, it's all bullshit. There were analysts yesterday saying Apple would report a loss. The whole thing is a joke. I'm going to get a margin call tomorrow. I've lost everything. I was never meant to be a stock trader. Time to get serious about focusing on my acting career.
It's not bullshit. The market doesn't price in current performance, the market is always anticipating the future, and prices are always relative to valuation, not absolute.
Also, the drop tomorrow may not be as bad as after hours today, low volume + disappointment always causes a much bigger move than it would in an open market. My condolences if you did lose everything, take it as a learning experience. I lost a ton of money before I could consistently make money.
And finally, never trade on margin. It's simply too risky. Day trading with a cash account is much safer, I personally stay in a position for an average of 2 weeks and only trade cash.
Agreed, but there is some merit to the argument that hardware eventually becomes a commodity. At some point my iPhone will be good enough that I just don't care about the next feature. If people start using their iPhones for 5 years, Apple isn't going to be making very much money.
This is actually a good point and, further, stock prices are about the future more than the present.
[" url="/t/155603/apple-stock-drops-over-10-in-after-hours-trading-following-q1-earnings-call/30#post_2263666"]
NFLX? And in a matter of minutes and hours, forget about months or years. Up almost 36% in after hours today.
what this all proves beyond question is that Wall Street is (substantially? essentially?) fake. don't look behind the curtain! up is down!!
two word proof: (1) Apple (2) Amazon.
forget equities. buy well-located real estate.
Amazon enjoys a de-facto monopoly in their core business, are expanding quickly into other businesses, and have a booming cloud infrastructure business as well. Their 'net income' is so low only because they are very aggressively reinvesting in their business to keep expanding.
Amazon does consumer goods, electronics, cloud infrastructure, media, retail, etc... They're in many businesses, and dominating several.
But you have to also look at valuations - Apple has already become a 500 billion dollar company, Amazon is still much smaller, with a market cap of only 120 billion...
Apple is a hardware company. Unless they license iOS at $300 a pop, it ain't gonna happen.
Apple is the best software company in the world, and packaging it in gorgeous hardware that they can't make fast enough. At this stage, investors are obviously, mindlessly rewarding market share.
Exactly, it's all bullshit. There were analysts yesterday saying Apple would report a loss. The whole thing is a joke. I'm going to get a margin call tomorrow. I've lost everything. I was never meant to be a stock trader. Time to get serious about focusing on my acting career.
Amazon enjoys a de-facto monopoly in their core business, are expanding quickly into other businesses, and have a booming cloud infrastructure business as well. Their 'net income' is so low only because they are very aggressively reinvesting in their business to keep expanding.
Amazon does consumer goods, electronics, cloud infrastructure, media, retail, etc... They're in many businesses, and dominating several.
But you have to also look at valuations - Apple has already become a 500 billion dollar company, Amazon is still much smaller, with a market cap of only 120 billion...
bull-puky.
Amazon's "monopoly" doesn't exist now. there are dozens of major web shopping competitors globally - including Google now rapidly growing in aggressiveness, the best positioned of all - and direct web sales by every retailer too (like Apple for good example). and this global web competition can only increase. Amazon is stuck forever in an extremely low-margin "supermarket" type business. all those "other businesses" are still sidelines. when they amount to something real and big, let me know. WalMart only has to beat its local brick and mortar competition. Amazon has to defeat the universe. ain't gonna work.
But you have to also look at valuations - Apple has already become a 500 billion dollar company, Amazon is still much smaller, with a market cap of only 120 billion...
Amazon enjoys a de-facto monopoly in their core business, are expanding quickly into other businesses, and have a booming cloud infrastructure business as well. Their 'net income' is so low only because they are very aggressively reinvesting in their business to keep expanding.
Amazon does consumer goods, electronics, cloud infrastructure, media, retail, etc... They're in many businesses, and dominating several.
Maybe, but Amazon is in fundamentally a low margin business. When you're reselling a product that someone else makes, you will never get huge margins. If you try, someone else will sell it for less.
Apple's NET profit was around 25% of sales. That's after subtracting all your direct costs and overheads AND reinvesting in new business. Amazon's net is 0.3% of sales. Even if they increase their sales 10 fold, they're still only going to be generating a tiny fraction of the profits that Apple generates - and when you consider the opportunity cost, it's a huge loser (you can put the money in the bank and earn more than that).
By ANY reasonable standard, AMZN's P/E is ridiculously high and AAPL's is ridiculously low.
Exactly, it's all bullshit. There were analysts yesterday saying Apple would report a loss. The whole thing is a joke. I'm going to get a margin call tomorrow. I've lost everything. I was never meant to be a stock trader. Time to get serious about focusing on my acting career.
Sorry to hear that, but that's a lesson learned. As irrational as the market was last year in driving Apple up to $700 it is irrational now dragging it down into the $400s on record profits. Don't trade in any individual stock more than you can lose. Index funds are the best bet (low fees, and you are not tied to any particular stock). Warren Buffett comes along once or twice a lifetime. The rest of us should diversify. I lost money today, but only a few thousand, and I'm still net positive on my net investment.
Amazon enjoys a de-facto monopoly in their core business, are expanding quickly into other businesses, and have a booming cloud infrastructure business as well. Their 'net income' is so low only because they are very aggressively reinvesting in their business to keep expanding.
Amazon does consumer goods, electronics, cloud infrastructure, media, retail, etc... They're in many businesses, and dominating several.
Except that Amazon has been "reinvesting" since they have been in existence. The market should be asking Jeff Bezos when he actually plans on making money, unless they plan on keeping the stock until 5013.
I think it's clear that the market doesn't have faith in Cook. He just lacks charisma and Apple hasn't had a blowout product announcement in a long time.
In an Apple style world, Apple no longer has a unique product to sell. That is the problem.
So is that why they sold more iPhones than ever before this past quarter? Is that why they just had one of their best quarters ever? Is that why they are sitting on $136 Billion on cash?
Do you even realize how abjectly stupid your post is?
The market is rightfully spooked. First, the falling margins. Next, and more importantly, most of Apple's earnings come from iPhone sales. And iPhone sales missed. Investors trade on forward earnings. And many suspect that Apple may be starting to see stiff competition finally, possibly driving both sales and margins lower. Man, if I knew the numbers would have been this bad, I would have shorted the stock. This fear of competition is exactly why Apple's PE has always been lower than you would expect. People compare Apple to Amazon and GE. If you do that, you are thinking like a fanboy and not an investor. As an investor, you should be scared of a company dependent on one product which they launch once a year, and which is starting to face growing headwinds, and running out of new markets to exploit (as in places where people can afford $800 iPhones). Amazon and GE are substantially more diversified, strong in multiple markets and don't yet have major competition that could kill their earnings with just one bad product launch. This risk is why investors discount the stock.
Crying about how markets are failing and capitalism is just fanboy drivel from those who don't understand how markets work and what drives investor sentiment.
Now, I've bought AAPL and suffered a bit of a hit on paper, but for me, it's one stock in my portfolio and I don't day trade. I've bought those shares and they'll be in there till I die or Apple does. I know Apple will eventually transition to a stable blue chip paying solid dividends, rather than a growth company sitting on more money than God.
But for me, my new growth stock is TSLA. Musk might actually be even more of a visionary than Jobs. The guy has actually taken 3 companies to billion dollar valuations from virtually nothing. And all in markets where he would face remarkable and entrenched resistance.
I think it's clear that the market doesn't have faith in Cook. He just lacks charisma and Apple hasn't had a blowout product announcement in a long time.
It's been like a whole 3 months. Apple is doomed¡ :rolleyes:
Comments
Indeed. Even less the answer now. 75 million iOS devices sold in one quarter!
Waiting for this to sink in. The Well of Ignosis is deep . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Exactly, it's all bullshit. There were analysts yesterday saying Apple would report a loss. The whole thing is a joke. I'm going to get a margin call tomorrow. I've lost everything. I was never meant to be a stock trader. Time to get serious about focusing on my acting career.
I feel your pain. I bought a bunch at $679. It's been all downhill since then. Maybe I should announce when I buy so others can sell.
- Jasen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Exactly, it's all bullshit. There were analysts yesterday saying Apple would report a loss. The whole thing is a joke. I'm going to get a margin call tomorrow. I've lost everything. I was never meant to be a stock trader. Time to get serious about focusing on my acting career.
So sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, buying on margin always has its dicey component. There's no way around that.
I am not only holding on to mine, but going in for a little more with some stuff that I am selling in my portfolio. It might go down a bit more, but for the longer haul -- my time frame is 3 - 5 years -- I have absolutely no doubt about where it's headed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Exactly, it's all bullshit. There were analysts yesterday saying Apple would report a loss. The whole thing is a joke. I'm going to get a margin call tomorrow. I've lost everything. I was never meant to be a stock trader. Time to get serious about focusing on my acting career.
It's not bullshit. The market doesn't price in current performance, the market is always anticipating the future, and prices are always relative to valuation, not absolute.
Also, the drop tomorrow may not be as bad as after hours today, low volume + disappointment always causes a much bigger move than it would in an open market. My condolences if you did lose everything, take it as a learning experience. I lost a ton of money before I could consistently make money.
And finally, never trade on margin. It's simply too risky. Day trading with a cash account is much safer, I personally stay in a position for an average of 2 weeks and only trade cash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471
Agreed, but there is some merit to the argument that hardware eventually becomes a commodity. At some point my iPhone will be good enough that I just don't care about the next feature. If people start using their iPhones for 5 years, Apple isn't going to be making very much money.
This is actually a good point and, further, stock prices are about the future more than the present.
They made some good moves in the last few weeks.
what this all proves beyond question is that Wall Street is (substantially? essentially?) fake. don't look behind the curtain! up is down!!
two word proof: (1) Apple (2) Amazon.
forget equities. buy well-located real estate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
what this all proves beyond question is that Wall Street is (substantially? essentially?) fake. don't look behind the curtain! up is down!!
two word proof: (1) Apple (2) Amazon.
forget equities. buy well-located real estate.
Amazon enjoys a de-facto monopoly in their core business, are expanding quickly into other businesses, and have a booming cloud infrastructure business as well. Their 'net income' is so low only because they are very aggressively reinvesting in their business to keep expanding.
Amazon does consumer goods, electronics, cloud infrastructure, media, retail, etc... They're in many businesses, and dominating several.
But you have to also look at valuations - Apple has already become a 500 billion dollar company, Amazon is still much smaller, with a market cap of only 120 billion...
Apple is the best software company in the world, and packaging it in gorgeous hardware that they can't make fast enough. At this stage, investors are obviously, mindlessly rewarding market share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Exactly, it's all bullshit. There were analysts yesterday saying Apple would report a loss. The whole thing is a joke. I'm going to get a margin call tomorrow. I've lost everything. I was never meant to be a stock trader. Time to get serious about focusing on my acting career.
Seriously?
That's the absolute shits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Amazon enjoys a de-facto monopoly in their core business, are expanding quickly into other businesses, and have a booming cloud infrastructure business as well. Their 'net income' is so low only because they are very aggressively reinvesting in their business to keep expanding.
Amazon does consumer goods, electronics, cloud infrastructure, media, retail, etc... They're in many businesses, and dominating several.
But you have to also look at valuations - Apple has already become a 500 billion dollar company, Amazon is still much smaller, with a market cap of only 120 billion...
bull-puky.
Amazon's "monopoly" doesn't exist now. there are dozens of major web shopping competitors globally - including Google now rapidly growing in aggressiveness, the best positioned of all - and direct web sales by every retailer too (like Apple for good example). and this global web competition can only increase. Amazon is stuck forever in an extremely low-margin "supermarket" type business. all those "other businesses" are still sidelines. when they amount to something real and big, let me know. WalMart only has to beat its local brick and mortar competition. Amazon has to defeat the universe. ain't gonna work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
But you have to also look at valuations - Apple has already become a 500 billion dollar company, Amazon is still much smaller, with a market cap of only 120 billion...
Groan.
Maybe, but Amazon is in fundamentally a low margin business. When you're reselling a product that someone else makes, you will never get huge margins. If you try, someone else will sell it for less.
Apple's NET profit was around 25% of sales. That's after subtracting all your direct costs and overheads AND reinvesting in new business. Amazon's net is 0.3% of sales. Even if they increase their sales 10 fold, they're still only going to be generating a tiny fraction of the profits that Apple generates - and when you consider the opportunity cost, it's a huge loser (you can put the money in the bank and earn more than that).
By ANY reasonable standard, AMZN's P/E is ridiculously high and AAPL's is ridiculously low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
By ANY reasonable standard, AMZN's P/E is ridiculously high and AAPL's is ridiculously low.
Then open short AMZN and long on APPL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Exactly, it's all bullshit. There were analysts yesterday saying Apple would report a loss. The whole thing is a joke. I'm going to get a margin call tomorrow. I've lost everything. I was never meant to be a stock trader. Time to get serious about focusing on my acting career.
Sorry to hear that, but that's a lesson learned. As irrational as the market was last year in driving Apple up to $700 it is irrational now dragging it down into the $400s on record profits. Don't trade in any individual stock more than you can lose. Index funds are the best bet (low fees, and you are not tied to any particular stock). Warren Buffett comes along once or twice a lifetime. The rest of us should diversify. I lost money today, but only a few thousand, and I'm still net positive on my net investment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Amazon enjoys a de-facto monopoly in their core business, are expanding quickly into other businesses, and have a booming cloud infrastructure business as well. Their 'net income' is so low only because they are very aggressively reinvesting in their business to keep expanding.
Amazon does consumer goods, electronics, cloud infrastructure, media, retail, etc... They're in many businesses, and dominating several.
Except that Amazon has been "reinvesting" since they have been in existence. The market should be asking Jeff Bezos when he actually plans on making money, unless they plan on keeping the stock until 5013.
I think it's clear that the market doesn't have faith in Cook. He just lacks charisma and Apple hasn't had a blowout product announcement in a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik
In an Apple style world, Apple no longer has a unique product to sell. That is the problem.
So is that why they sold more iPhones than ever before this past quarter? Is that why they just had one of their best quarters ever? Is that why they are sitting on $136 Billion on cash?
Do you even realize how abjectly stupid your post is?
Why is anybody surprised by the stock tanking?
The market is rightfully spooked. First, the falling margins. Next, and more importantly, most of Apple's earnings come from iPhone sales. And iPhone sales missed. Investors trade on forward earnings. And many suspect that Apple may be starting to see stiff competition finally, possibly driving both sales and margins lower. Man, if I knew the numbers would have been this bad, I would have shorted the stock. This fear of competition is exactly why Apple's PE has always been lower than you would expect. People compare Apple to Amazon and GE. If you do that, you are thinking like a fanboy and not an investor. As an investor, you should be scared of a company dependent on one product which they launch once a year, and which is starting to face growing headwinds, and running out of new markets to exploit (as in places where people can afford $800 iPhones). Amazon and GE are substantially more diversified, strong in multiple markets and don't yet have major competition that could kill their earnings with just one bad product launch. This risk is why investors discount the stock.
Crying about how markets are failing and capitalism is just fanboy drivel from those who don't understand how markets work and what drives investor sentiment.
Now, I've bought AAPL and suffered a bit of a hit on paper, but for me, it's one stock in my portfolio and I don't day trade. I've bought those shares and they'll be in there till I die or Apple does. I know Apple will eventually transition to a stable blue chip paying solid dividends, rather than a growth company sitting on more money than God.
But for me, my new growth stock is TSLA. Musk might actually be even more of a visionary than Jobs. The guy has actually taken 3 companies to billion dollar valuations from virtually nothing. And all in markets where he would face remarkable and entrenched resistance.
It's been like a whole 3 months. Apple is doomed¡ :rolleyes: