Hear hear, everybody's wrong
Only the Apple fans are right.
I love Apple. I have:
- an iPhone 4S
- a MacBook Air 13''
- an iMac 27'' (just came out, yeeh)
- 4 iPods
- an old iMac 21''5
But do you mind me trying to keep the record straight.
Some things are really not OK
- waiting 1,5 months to get my latest iMac
- the Apple stores
- iPhone after iPhone 4
- the Cloud
- ...
and if I were an investor, I'd also be worried about
- margins
- price points
- dropping market share
- the supply chain
- litigate iso innovate
- ...
What's wrong with the apple store? What's wrong with "iPhone after iPhone 4"
Luckily I am an investor. I am not worried about market share as the sales of the iPad and iPhone are INCREASING. I can't worry about margins AND price points at the same time if the latter will bring down the former and lower the ASP. "Innovate iso litigate" is just so funny because I would want Apple to protect its IP. I guess you don't have investments because every company sues for one thing or another. Why should I worry about supply chain...because of unnamed sources? Supply chain is complex with various moving parts and numerous suppliers.
The bizarre turn, which occured after standard trading stopped on Thursday as Apple presented earnings, means that until trading resumes on Friday, the market has determined that Apple's operations, brand and all associated goodwill are worth just $299 billion, or $318 per outstanding share after considering its staggering cash position.
I realize that proofreading is far too difficult for AI, but is it possible for your authors to at least learn to read a calendar?
If you are an Apple hater, for whatever reason, you can revel in the share price drop. But all the things you mention in the part "if you were an investor", if you honestly look at the data from the CC and earnings report, are not really problems for Apple but that is just my opinion.
it could be Apple is fully aware that the share price is heavily manipulated and they are doing whatever it takes to shake out the manipulators. If they made a press release to that effect, it would cause a shitstorm, so they keep quiet. Historically, Apple shares have been this way, maybe TC is attempting to move the company into better territory, but how do you explain that to shareholders in a way that doesn't get manipulated and FUD'ed into oblivion.
The stock may have fallen because a "disappointing" result (hint: I don't think so), but a lot of it has to do with management attitude toward the investors. They are one of the most investordshort term profit takers-hostile company I have seen.
There. I fixed it for you. People that move their shares in the span of days or even minutes are not investors. They have absolutely no interest or concern about the fundamentals of a company. All companies and actual investors should be hostile to them, as they don't have any stake in the company's success.
Uncertainty would usually cause stock prices to drop. AAPL's no EPS target probably threw a lot of funds off balance. These funds would sell regardless of what AAPL's worth right now, because of the uncertainty of AAPL's future EPS.
But do you mind me trying to keep the record straight.
Some things are really not OK
- waiting 1,5 months to get my latest iMac
- the Apple stores
- iPhone after iPhone 4
- the Cloud
- ...
and if I were an investor, I'd also be worried about
- margins
- price points
- dropping market share
- the supply chain
- litigate iso innovate
- ...
You don't have to be an Apple fan to recognize irrational situations, and your list is absolutely moronic. Let's consider the facts:
1. Long wait for an iMac - high demand for a product that is supply constrained because it is harder to manufacture due to the most innovative design on the market.
2. Apple Stores - the single highest revenue per square foot of any retail operation in the world. It beats #2 (Tiffany's) by a factor of 2x.
3. iPhone after iPhone 4 - each iPhone continues to sell more units than all previous models combined. Logarithmic math may be difficult for some, but it's real math.
4. The Cloud - Apple runs one of the biggest online stores in the world - iTMS. iCloud is extremely popular (and works very well). And Apple continues to invest large amounts of capital in its infrastructure.
5. Margins - the gross margins were actually higher than Apple's guidance in the previous earnings call (38% vs 36%) and clear due to a higher than usual number of simultaneous product introductions. Even at 38%, they are so far beyond anyone else in the market that it's just a ridiculous red herring.
6. Price points - Apple continues to sell every unit of its products that it can make, demand is increasing, and it is grabbing 75% plus of the profits in its market segments.
7. Market share - a fool's errand that is only relevant for those who think we're still in the 1990s. Ask BMW whether it's "mediocre" market share is an issue.
8. Supply chain - what's to say about a ridiculous claim like that. Apple continues to be the single best supply chain company in the world. All the false WSJ articles in the world don't change it.
9. Litigation - Apple won it's lawsuit against Samsung. Motorola has withdrawn all SEP-based claims. HTC has settled with Apple and pays a license. And Samsung is under investigation in the EU for its attempts to use SEPs against Apple. And it's impossible to know the full extent of how much Apple's litigation has prevented attempts to blindly copy its products.
As an actual longterm investor in AAPL, none of those things are of concern. The only concern is that the market is not behaving rationally right now. The P/E, balance sheet, growth rates, profit, and now dividend payments are actually great for anyone who wants to buy AAPL for the long haul. Maybe the market behaves irrationally in the short term, but long term will be fine.
I presume you mean "litigate instead of innovate".
I presume you have thought this through carefully and have come to the conclusion that, if the Apple lawyers were not tied up in court, they would be joining Mr. Ive and Mr. Mansfield in the lab, cutting metal, fixing maps and waxing poetic about rounded rectangles?
BTW, have you figured out the difference between straddle and strangle yet?
And I do. I'm never afraid to put my money where my mouth is.
And not all analysts and pundits are morons, just some of them. There are quite a few analysts who have come out already and they have stated that their price targets for Apple remain unchanged. Apple shares at these dirt cheap prices are certainly a bargain.
You probably own more stock that many Apple insiders. I'm not even exaggerating. Even Tim Cook apparently only own 13k shares.
Nothing wrong with Apple the company. But the board is flat out hostile to investors. And I would guess a lot of that has to do with the fact that Apple insiders to divest the moment they can. They run Apple well. But they don't give a fig about investors. So investors returns the favour.
Nothing wrong with Apple the company. But the board is flat out hostile to investors. And I would guess a lot of that has to do with the fact that Apple insiders to divest the moment they can. They run Apple well. But they don't give a fig about investors. So investors returns the favour.
You are using the word "investor" to cover anyone who buys / sells shares. People or institutions that buy and sell Apple to make short term gains are not investors, but you are right that Apple does not, has never, and should never care about those shareholders.
You really need to bone up on your trolling. We're not going to let your crap fly for much longer. At the very least, don't say anything on the list. It's to your benefit as well; you won't look laughably uninformed that way.
You are using the word "investor" to cover anyone who buys / sells shares. People or institutions that buy and sell Apple to make short term gains are not investors, but you are right that Apple does not, has never, and should never care about those shareholders.
It's also been shown that companies that focus on "maximizing shareholder value" tend to perform poorly. Companies that focus on making great products and making their customers happy do better, and thus better for their investors. In other words, ignoring what your investors want tends to work out better for the investors.
Apple is operating in totally uncharted territory, and is currently where no other tech company has ever gone before. On the list of the largest Corporate earnings of all time, Apple's just released Q1 2013 results is number four. Apple holds three spots out of the top ten, and there's not a single other tech company there on that list to see. The only other companies that Apple shares space with on that list is with oil companies. When you get that big and are selling more than anybody has ever sold before in the history of the world, I think that it's pretty unrealistic and downright ignorant to keep expecting record breaking results that no other company has ever achieved before.
I think that the main cause behind the drastic sell off in AH is a combination of fear, stupidity, herd mentality and clueless people. Every tiny, negative thing (true or not) that has to do with Apple gets amplified at least a thousandfold, and leads to a very negative atmosphere surrounding the stock, including yesterday's ridiculous over-reaction. People talk about margins? Look at the damn margins of other tech companies, and anybody can see that Apples' are still very respectable and most other tech companies would kill to have Apple's margins.
Apple made a shitload of money last quarter, more than ever before, but I guess that that's simply not good enough. With the way that the stock dropped, you'd think that Apple reported that they sold one hundred iPhone 5s in total and had negative earnings. The way that Wall Street reacts to and treats Apple as a company is a total joke.
I do also think that there might be something to be said about the law of large numbers. There are not endless Apple customers on planet earth, and even though there are still some emerging markets (China comes to mind), I think that there is a point where you will reach saturation in other, already established, developed markets. And to that I say, so what? That's just how things are. You can't change nature. Apple could release the best ever earnings in mankind's history, but if those earnings are one hundredth of a decimal point below the estimate of some analyst crackhead on Wall Street, then it is a complete and utter failure.
I was lucky enough to sell yesterday before the drop, but I'll probably be buying back in soon again, especially at these laughable prices.
Probably your best post on this forum. Stick with this stuff, and not social commentary.
As for me, I'm holding. Everyone I know who owns Apple stock has freaked out (understandably so) and have offloaded everything they have (and not I look like a tool as I convinced many to just wait until the earnings call before selling). I finally bought in after the high of $700, when it dropped to $650 or so, buoyed by reports of a potential $1000 stock. This experience has taugh me that there is absolutely no rules to the stock market that has anything to do with reality, or the fundamentals of a company- which I once assumed there was. I now know it's nothing but a circus, a gamble, that is affected by nothing except irrational emotion and bullshit narratives, and not the actual facts on the ground, the fundamental health, and the financial and sales success of the company. As I said I'm holding, as I've invested quite a bit because of my confidence, I just hope it can get to a point where I can break even, and all I know is that I will never ever play the stock market again. It's just useless stress.
Great time to get hired by Apple. You'll never get a better incentive stock option price.
Apparently Google is a better place to work. More pay, more restaurants, more free massages, more free time to build silly (or one day useful?) things...
You don't have to be an Apple fan to recognize irrational situations, and your list is absolutely moronic. Let's consider the facts:
1. Long wait for an iMac - high demand for a product that is supply constrained because it is harder to manufacture due to the most innovative design on the market.
2. Apple Stores - the single highest revenue per square foot of any retail operation in the world. It beats #2 (Tiffany's) by a factor of 2x.
3. iPhone after iPhone 4 - each iPhone continues to sell more units than all previous models combined. Logarithmic math may be difficult for some, but it's real math.
4. The Cloud - Apple runs one of the biggest online stores in the world - iTMS. iCloud is extremely popular (and works very well). And Apple continues to invest large amounts of capital in its infrastructure.
5. Margins - the gross margins were actually higher than Apple's guidance in the previous earnings call (38% vs 36%) and clear due to a higher than usual number of simultaneous product introductions. Even at 38%, they are so far beyond anyone else in the market that it's just a ridiculous red herring.
6. Price points - Apple continues to sell every unit of its products that it can make, demand is increasing, and it is grabbing 75% plus of the profits in its market segments.
7. Market share - a fool's errand that is only relevant for those who think we're still in the 1990s. Ask BMW whether it's "mediocre" market share is an issue.
8. Supply chain - what's to say about a ridiculous claim like that. Apple continues to be the single best supply chain company in the world. All the false WSJ articles in the world don't change it.
9. Litigation - Apple won it's lawsuit against Samsung. Motorola has withdrawn all SEP-based claims. HTC has settled with Apple and pays a license. And Samsung is under investigation in the EU for its attempts to use SEPs against Apple. And it's impossible to know the full extent of how much Apple's litigation has prevented attempts to blindly copy its products.
As an actual longterm investor in AAPL, none of those things are of concern. The only concern is that the market is not behaving rationally right now. The P/E, balance sheet, growth rates, profit, and now dividend payments are actually great for anyone who wants to buy AAPL for the long haul. Maybe the market behaves irrationally in the short term, but long term will be fine.
Well done.
And while I agree that Tim Cook and Apple should not pander to Wall Street in the slightest, he did lay out a few areas of growth, in addition to saying "we're working on some incredible stuff. The pipeline is chock full." This is coming off of an "unprecedented" 80% refresh of the entire product lineup.
There is the usual China opportunity, the new LTE buildout, getting the supply for mini and iMacs up to speed, and the growing halo effect of iPads continuing to erode the Windows legacy base.
He is not really ignoring investors with these statements, much less being hostile to them. But will they pay attention?
And while I agree that Tim Cook and Apple should not pander to Wall Street in the slightest, he did lay out a few areas of growth, in addition to saying "we're working on some incredible stuff. The pipeline is chock full." This is coming off of an "unprecedented" 80% refresh of the entire product lineup.
There is the usual China opportunity, the new LTE buildout, getting the supply for mini and iMacs up to speed, and the growing halo effect of iPads continuing to erode the Windows legacy base.
He is not really ignoring investors with these statements, much less being hostile to them. But will they pay attention?
If today's share price is any indication, the answer is 'no'.
I presume you mean "litigate instead of innovate".
I presume you have thought this through carefully and have come to the conclusion that, if the Apple lawyers were not tied up in court, they would be joining Mr. Ive and Mr. Mansfield in the lab, cutting metal, fixing maps and waxing poetic about rounded rectangles?
BTW, have you figured out the difference between straddle and strangle yet?
Hi Stellligent,
Sorry, what did you say? I'm still counting the money that flows in!
Comments
What's wrong with the apple store? What's wrong with "iPhone after iPhone 4"
Luckily I am an investor. I am not worried about market share as the sales of the iPad and iPhone are INCREASING. I can't worry about margins AND price points at the same time if the latter will bring down the former and lower the ASP. "Innovate iso litigate" is just so funny because I would want Apple to protect its IP. I guess you don't have investments because every company sues for one thing or another. Why should I worry about supply chain...because of unnamed sources? Supply chain is complex with various moving parts and numerous suppliers.
I realize that proofreading is far too difficult for AI, but is it possible for your authors to at least learn to read a calendar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1
Hear hear, everybody's wrong
Only the Apple fans are right.
I love Apple. I have:
- an iPhone 4S
- a MacBook Air 13''
- an iMac 27'' (just came out, yeeh)
- 4 iPods
- an old iMac 21''5
But do you mind me trying to keep the record straight.
Some things are really not OK
- waiting 1,5 months to get my latest iMac
- the Apple stores
- iPhone after iPhone 4
- the Cloud
- ...
and if I were an investor, I'd also be worried about
- margins
- price points
- dropping market share
- the supply chain
- litigate iso innovate
- ...
If you were an investor, then maybe this column might make some sense to you.
http://mac360.com/2013/01/the-obvious-but-hidden-secrets-behind-apples-record-numbers-and-stock-price-crash/
If you are an Apple hater, for whatever reason, you can revel in the share price drop. But all the things you mention in the part "if you were an investor", if you honestly look at the data from the CC and earnings report, are not really problems for Apple but that is just my opinion.
Good luck to you.
Neal
it could be Apple is fully aware that the share price is heavily manipulated and they are doing whatever it takes to shake out the manipulators. If they made a press release to that effect, it would cause a shitstorm, so they keep quiet. Historically, Apple shares have been this way, maybe TC is attempting to move the company into better territory, but how do you explain that to shareholders in a way that doesn't get manipulated and FUD'ed into oblivion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino
The stock may have fallen because a "disappointing" result (hint: I don't think so), but a lot of it has to do with management attitude toward the investors. They are one of the most investordshort term profit takers-hostile company I have seen.
There. I fixed it for you. People that move their shares in the span of days or even minutes are not investors. They have absolutely no interest or concern about the fundamentals of a company. All companies and actual investors should be hostile to them, as they don't have any stake in the company's success.
Uncertainty would usually cause stock prices to drop. AAPL's no EPS target probably threw a lot of funds off balance. These funds would sell regardless of what AAPL's worth right now, because of the uncertainty of AAPL's future EPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1
Hear hear, everybody's wrong
Only the Apple fans are right.
I love Apple. I have:
- an iPhone 4S
- a MacBook Air 13''
- an iMac 27'' (just came out, yeeh)
- 4 iPods
- an old iMac 21''5
But do you mind me trying to keep the record straight.
Some things are really not OK
- waiting 1,5 months to get my latest iMac
- the Apple stores
- iPhone after iPhone 4
- the Cloud
- ...
and if I were an investor, I'd also be worried about
- margins
- price points
- dropping market share
- the supply chain
- litigate iso innovate
- ...
You don't have to be an Apple fan to recognize irrational situations, and your list is absolutely moronic. Let's consider the facts:
1. Long wait for an iMac - high demand for a product that is supply constrained because it is harder to manufacture due to the most innovative design on the market.
2. Apple Stores - the single highest revenue per square foot of any retail operation in the world. It beats #2 (Tiffany's) by a factor of 2x.
3. iPhone after iPhone 4 - each iPhone continues to sell more units than all previous models combined. Logarithmic math may be difficult for some, but it's real math.
4. The Cloud - Apple runs one of the biggest online stores in the world - iTMS. iCloud is extremely popular (and works very well). And Apple continues to invest large amounts of capital in its infrastructure.
5. Margins - the gross margins were actually higher than Apple's guidance in the previous earnings call (38% vs 36%) and clear due to a higher than usual number of simultaneous product introductions. Even at 38%, they are so far beyond anyone else in the market that it's just a ridiculous red herring.
6. Price points - Apple continues to sell every unit of its products that it can make, demand is increasing, and it is grabbing 75% plus of the profits in its market segments.
7. Market share - a fool's errand that is only relevant for those who think we're still in the 1990s. Ask BMW whether it's "mediocre" market share is an issue.
8. Supply chain - what's to say about a ridiculous claim like that. Apple continues to be the single best supply chain company in the world. All the false WSJ articles in the world don't change it.
9. Litigation - Apple won it's lawsuit against Samsung. Motorola has withdrawn all SEP-based claims. HTC has settled with Apple and pays a license. And Samsung is under investigation in the EU for its attempts to use SEPs against Apple. And it's impossible to know the full extent of how much Apple's litigation has prevented attempts to blindly copy its products.
As an actual longterm investor in AAPL, none of those things are of concern. The only concern is that the market is not behaving rationally right now. The P/E, balance sheet, growth rates, profit, and now dividend payments are actually great for anyone who wants to buy AAPL for the long haul. Maybe the market behaves irrationally in the short term, but long term will be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1
- litigate iso innovate
- ...
I presume you mean "litigate instead of innovate".
I presume you have thought this through carefully and have come to the conclusion that, if the Apple lawyers were not tied up in court, they would be joining Mr. Ive and Mr. Mansfield in the lab, cutting metal, fixing maps and waxing poetic about rounded rectangles?
BTW, have you figured out the difference between straddle and strangle yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
And I do. I'm never afraid to put my money where my mouth is.
And not all analysts and pundits are morons, just some of them. There are quite a few analysts who have come out already and they have stated that their price targets for Apple remain unchanged. Apple shares at these dirt cheap prices are certainly a bargain.
You probably own more stock that many Apple insiders. I'm not even exaggerating. Even Tim Cook apparently only own 13k shares.
Nothing wrong with Apple the company. But the board is flat out hostile to investors. And I would guess a lot of that has to do with the fact that Apple insiders to divest the moment they can. They run Apple well. But they don't give a fig about investors. So investors returns the favour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz
Nothing wrong with Apple the company. But the board is flat out hostile to investors. And I would guess a lot of that has to do with the fact that Apple insiders to divest the moment they can. They run Apple well. But they don't give a fig about investors. So investors returns the favour.
You are using the word "investor" to cover anyone who buys / sells shares. People or institutions that buy and sell Apple to make short term gains are not investors, but you are right that Apple does not, has never, and should never care about those shareholders.
Originally Posted by Blitz1
I love Apple. …
But…
You really need to bone up on your trolling. We're not going to let your crap fly for much longer. At the very least, don't say anything on the list. It's to your benefit as well; you won't look laughably uninformed that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher
You are using the word "investor" to cover anyone who buys / sells shares. People or institutions that buy and sell Apple to make short term gains are not investors, but you are right that Apple does not, has never, and should never care about those shareholders.
It's also been shown that companies that focus on "maximizing shareholder value" tend to perform poorly. Companies that focus on making great products and making their customers happy do better, and thus better for their investors. In other words, ignoring what your investors want tends to work out better for the investors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Apple is operating in totally uncharted territory, and is currently where no other tech company has ever gone before. On the list of the largest Corporate earnings of all time, Apple's just released Q1 2013 results is number four. Apple holds three spots out of the top ten, and there's not a single other tech company there on that list to see. The only other companies that Apple shares space with on that list is with oil companies. When you get that big and are selling more than anybody has ever sold before in the history of the world, I think that it's pretty unrealistic and downright ignorant to keep expecting record breaking results that no other company has ever achieved before.
I think that the main cause behind the drastic sell off in AH is a combination of fear, stupidity, herd mentality and clueless people. Every tiny, negative thing (true or not) that has to do with Apple gets amplified at least a thousandfold, and leads to a very negative atmosphere surrounding the stock, including yesterday's ridiculous over-reaction. People talk about margins? Look at the damn margins of other tech companies, and anybody can see that Apples' are still very respectable and most other tech companies would kill to have Apple's margins.
Apple made a shitload of money last quarter, more than ever before, but I guess that that's simply not good enough. With the way that the stock dropped, you'd think that Apple reported that they sold one hundred iPhone 5s in total and had negative earnings. The way that Wall Street reacts to and treats Apple as a company is a total joke.
I do also think that there might be something to be said about the law of large numbers. There are not endless Apple customers on planet earth, and even though there are still some emerging markets (China comes to mind), I think that there is a point where you will reach saturation in other, already established, developed markets. And to that I say, so what? That's just how things are. You can't change nature. Apple could release the best ever earnings in mankind's history, but if those earnings are one hundredth of a decimal point below the estimate of some analyst crackhead on Wall Street, then it is a complete and utter failure.
I was lucky enough to sell yesterday before the drop, but I'll probably be buying back in soon again, especially at these laughable prices.
Probably your best post on this forum. Stick with this stuff, and not social commentary.
As for me, I'm holding. Everyone I know who owns Apple stock has freaked out (understandably so) and have offloaded everything they have (and not I look like a tool as I convinced many to just wait until the earnings call before selling). I finally bought in after the high of $700, when it dropped to $650 or so, buoyed by reports of a potential $1000 stock. This experience has taugh me that there is absolutely no rules to the stock market that has anything to do with reality, or the fundamentals of a company- which I once assumed there was. I now know it's nothing but a circus, a gamble, that is affected by nothing except irrational emotion and bullshit narratives, and not the actual facts on the ground, the fundamental health, and the financial and sales success of the company. As I said I'm holding, as I've invested quite a bit because of my confidence, I just hope it can get to a point where I can break even, and all I know is that I will never ever play the stock market again. It's just useless stress.
What would be 'impure' cash, badly laundered perhaps?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid
Great time to get hired by Apple. You'll never get a better incentive stock option price.
Apparently Google is a better place to work. More pay, more restaurants, more free massages, more free time to build silly (or one day useful?) things...
Well done.
And while I agree that Tim Cook and Apple should not pander to Wall Street in the slightest, he did lay out a few areas of growth, in addition to saying "we're working on some incredible stuff. The pipeline is chock full." This is coming off of an "unprecedented" 80% refresh of the entire product lineup.
There is the usual China opportunity, the new LTE buildout, getting the supply for mini and iMacs up to speed, and the growing halo effect of iPads continuing to erode the Windows legacy base.
He is not really ignoring investors with these statements, much less being hostile to them. But will they pay attention?
If today's share price is any indication, the answer is 'no'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
I presume you mean "litigate instead of innovate".
I presume you have thought this through carefully and have come to the conclusion that, if the Apple lawyers were not tied up in court, they would be joining Mr. Ive and Mr. Mansfield in the lab, cutting metal, fixing maps and waxing poetic about rounded rectangles?
BTW, have you figured out the difference between straddle and strangle yet?
Hi Stellligent,
Sorry, what did you say? I'm still counting the money that flows in!
See ya!