Google's 'confidential' test could be super-dense LTE network on Clearwire spectrum

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Google has filed a request with the FCC for a license to test a wireless network on its Mountain View campus, and at least one observer believes the search giant is working on an LTE network of its own, possibly in preparation of entering the wireless provider sector on its own terms.

Washington, D.C.-based consulting wireless engineer Steven Crowley writes on his personal site that the high level of confidentiality surrounding Google's filings with the FCC is conspicuous, and that even the company's request for confidential treatment has had portions redacted.

Google


The filings also contain a number of other oddly redacted areas, including the output power of the devices being tested.

What leads Crowley to suspect an LTE network may be in the offing is a code supplied on the form. The code F9W is used sometimes for LTE devices, and it appears in Google's filing for the emission designator.

As Crowley notes, it is not possible to know exactly what may emerge from Google's secretive wireless testing. The search company has already rolled out a fiber-based Internet service in Kansas City, teasing a possible disruption of the wired Internet service industry. Analysts estimate, though, that rolling out such a service nationwide would cost roughly $140 billion.

Entering the wireless carrier market could prove an attractive option for the Android maker, which has already been rumored to have engaged in talks with entities such as Dish Network ?also known to be pondering a move into wireless.

Whether Google would be moving into the wireless industry on its own is also unknown. The tests Google is currently carrying out are being conducted on a frequency range held by Clearwire, a group in which Sprint recently took a controlling share. Sprint, itself, was recently acquired by Japanese carrier Softbank.
«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 37


    This is great! ADS by sms, more phone calls from companies trying to sell us more stuff...

  • Reply 2 of 37
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,797member
    Sprint now completely controls Clearwire which uses the 2.5Ghz frequency. That was used for Wimax but will now be turned into LTE moving forward.

    From an article: "Clearwire%u2019s 2.5GHz spectrum is uniquely positioned to be used as a global LTE band, provided a certain band configuration is used.

    In the past, Clearwire has stated that it wishes to use the 2.5GHz spectrum assets it has for a capacity-based TD-LTE network. To that end, Clearwire%u2019s spectrum was codified in the 3GPP as band class 41, a TDD band that covers the entire frequency range. There is one major problem with this plan: the lack of economic scale. There simply aren%u2019t that many devices that support it at this time.

    That could change if Chinese mobile operator China Mobile starts ordering dual-band TD-LTE devices that work for both its band 40 TD-LTE trial network and Clearwire%u2019s future band 41 network. China Mobile%u2019s 600 million subscriber base makes it a very good target to force the economic potential of the band to rise. Additionally, SoftBank Mobile (the Japanese network operator owned by SoftBank) has a TD-LTE network operating on band 41 in Japan right now."

    Sprint has plenty of room in that frequency to lease out some to companies like Google or others. Even better if Google agrees to help build out the towers. This is the one frequency and band that truly has the potential to be global as it is used and available in far more countries than any other frequency.



  • Reply 3 of 37


    Wish they'd focus more on the landline gigabit Internet they promised. You know, build that out, terrify the existing Internet providers, force them to upgrade their services, and then whatever happens happens.




    If Google winds up being my ISP, I'm fine with that. Sure, they'll look at absolutely everything I do, but they can't do squat with it! I don't use any Google services, so I won't be served any ads based on anything I've surfed! They can't make any money off me that way, and their advertisers will learn that!


     


    "So they'll just inject ad HTML pages in between every 50th URL you visit."


     


    And that will instantly destroy that part of their company, leaving behind an upgraded infrastructure taken over by honorable (well, less disreputable) companies. No one would accept their browsing being hijacked by their ISP for the purpose of serving ads.

  • Reply 4 of 37
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Google has filed a request with the FCC for a license to test a wireless network on its Mountain View campus, and at least one observer believes the search giant is working on an LTE network of its own, possibly in preparation of entering the wireless provider sector on its own terms.

    Cool. So I wonder if the carriers are kicking themselves for going so far out of the way to talk customers into buying Android phones instead of iPhones.
  • Reply 5 of 37
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,618member


    I read a version of this story a day or two ago, with additional details linked here:


    http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Google-Testing-Secret-Wireless-Network-122873

  • Reply 6 of 37
    robmrobm Posts: 1,068member
    Attaboy Larry - keep innovating !
  • Reply 7 of 37
    majjomajjo Posts: 574member
    Wish they'd focus more on the landline gigabit Internet they promised. You know, build that out, terrify the existing Internet providers, force them to upgrade their services, and then whatever happens happens.


    If Google winds up being my ISP, I'm fine with that. Sure, they'll look at absolutely everything I do, but they can't do squat with it! I don't use any Google services, so I won't be served any ads based on anything I've surfed! They can't make any money off me that way, and their advertisers will learn that!

    "So they'll just inject ad HTML pages in between every 50th URL you visit."

    And that will instantly destroy that part of their company, leaving behind an upgraded infrastructure taken over by honorable (well, less disreputable) companies. No one would accept their browsing being hijacked by their ISP for the purpose of serving ads.

    They indicated that they do plan on expanding their gigabit internet in their earnings call. At $70/month, I don't think they're that reliant on ads to support it.
  • Reply 8 of 37

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post



    Sprint now completely controls Clearwire which uses the 2.5Ghz frequency. That was used for Wimax but will now be turned into LTE moving forward.



    From an article: "Clearwire%u2019s 2.5GHz spectrum is uniquely positioned to be used as a global LTE band, provided a certain band configuration is used.



    In the past, Clearwire has stated that it wishes to use the 2.5GHz spectrum assets it has for a capacity-based TD-LTE network. To that end, Clearwire%u2019s spectrum was codified in the 3GPP as band class 41, a TDD band that covers the entire frequency range. There is one major problem with this plan: the lack of economic scale. There simply aren%u2019t that many devices that support it at this time.



    That could change if Chinese mobile operator China Mobile starts ordering dual-band TD-LTE devices that work for both its band 40 TD-LTE trial network and Clearwire%u2019s future band 41 network. China Mobile%u2019s 600 million subscriber base makes it a very good target to force the economic potential of the band to rise. Additionally, SoftBank Mobile (the Japanese network operator owned by SoftBank) has a TD-LTE network operating on band 41 in Japan right now."



    Sprint has plenty of room in that frequency to lease out some to companies like Google or others. Even better if Google agrees to help build out the towers. This is the one frequency and band that truly has the potential to be global as it is used and available in far more countries than any other frequency.





     


     


    Correction: Sprint doesn't own Clearwire. They are in a bidding war with DISH Network who has outbid Sprint.


     


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/23/clearwire-sprint-dish-idUSL1E9CG8F020130123


     


    Lots of action going on right now.

  • Reply 9 of 37
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,797member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


     


    Correction: Sprint doesn't own Clearwire. They are in a bidding war with DISH Network who has outbid Sprint.


     


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/23/clearwire-sprint-dish-idUSL1E9CG8F020130123


     


    Lots of action going on right now.



    Sprint already owns more than 50% of Clearwire. Dish won't have a chance given their legal obligations. Sprint has no intention of selling their majority stake to Dish either so there is lot a not Dish could do without Sprint's cooperation. Softbank who just bought Sprint are really the ones that want Clearwire since they have a 2.5GHz LTE network in Japan. 

  • Reply 10 of 37


    Originally Posted by majjo View Post

    They indicated that they do plan on expanding their gigabit internet in their earnings call. At $70/month, I don't think they're that reliant on ads to support it.


     


    Seventy?! Gigabit Internet access is half as expensive as 100 megabit?! 


     


    "You just have to live where it is." Yeah, that's the kicker, isn't it.


     


    Oh, this is SO DELICIOUS. I thought it was four times that at least. Talk about room for expansion! 


     


    If they ever get around to where I live, this may be the one thing for which I accept Google's existence in my life.

  • Reply 11 of 37
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    This is great! ADS by sms, more phone calls from companies trying to sell us more stuff...

    I think the scope less superficial than that. Google already know hundreds of millions if not billions of phone numbers. They could have be sending out tailored SMS ads years ago if they wanted. I think Dish Network is more along the longterm goals for Google. Get home internet and on-demand television where you can know everything they call and sell that info to all your current customers plus the television and movie studios. It could even be a way to curry favour with the big studios to help make deals that could eventually help topple the iTunes Store giant.
  • Reply 12 of 37
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    majjo wrote: »
    They indicated that they do plan on expanding their gigabit internet in their earnings call. At $70/month, I don't think they're that reliant on ads to support it.

    Being a network guy I can't stand when I hear T1 in a recent movies to TV shows described as being fast.
  • Reply 13 of 37
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,618member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Seventy?! Gigabit Internet access is half as expensive as 100 megabit?! 


     


    "You just have to live where it is." Yeah, that's the kicker, isn't it.


     


    Oh, this is SO DELICIOUS. I thought it was four times that at least. Talk about room for expansion! 


     


    If they ever get around to where I live, this may be the one thing for which I accept Google's existence in my life.



    You mean your seemingly irrational fear of ads might be overcome by a rational desire for more fairly priced and beneficial services? Say it ain't so TS!!


     


    image

  • Reply 14 of 37
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    jragosta wrote: »
    Cool. So I wonder if the carriers are kicking themselves for going so far out of the way to talk customers into buying Android phones instead of iPhones.

    Why does that matter? Google makes more money off iOS devices.
  • Reply 15 of 37
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Being a network guy I can't stand when I hear T1 in a recent movies to TV shows described as being fast.

    You'd figure they'd at least say T3 by now. Fact is T1s are still in high use today. There's never any slowdown and most telcos guarantee any outage to be of less than 24 hours.
  • Reply 16 of 37


    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

    You mean your seemingly irrational fear of ads might be overcome by a rational desire for more fairly priced and beneficial services? Say it ain't so TS!!


     


    I'm sorry, irrational? No, when an ISP starts serving up their own ads on websites or throws up their own pages in between URL searches, that's not irrational; that's Big Brother. 


     


    It's not impossible to do, I don't know of any cases where either has been done (though the former more than the latter sounds like it could have already happened), but remaining vigilant about a violent reaction should it ever come to pass will keep it at bay.

  • Reply 17 of 37
    froodfrood Posts: 771member


    Google wanted a secret network and now its posted all over the internets.


     


    I'm here reading about it totally invading their privacy.


     


    I feel EVIL!   image


     


    Should be interesting to see what, if anything, they do with it.


     


     


    Maybe they are testing out their own zippy high density LTE network so they can become a service provider.


    Maybe they are tinkering innovations to add to the 5g standard so they can license toothless FRAND patents for the good of everyone.


    Maybe they are tinkering innovations to develop their own super-duper-unheard-of-speeds proprietary standard to give Android another competitive edge.  It sounds a little far fetched, who would adopt a proprietery wireless standard?  With Android looking to hit @80% market share globally- they pretty much are the standard....


    Most likely they just wanted their own little campus network to tinker around with and not do much outside the scope of 20% time work, and they are just kicking back laughing at all the speculation.


     


    It does look like they've been out shopping for spectrum so who knows.

  • Reply 18 of 37
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    I'm sorry, irrational? No, when an ISP starts serving up their own ads on websites or throws up their own pages in between URL searches, that's not irrational; that's Big Brother. 

    It's not impossible to do, I don't know of any cases where either has been done (though the former more than the latter sounds like it could have already happened), but remaining vigilant about a violent reaction should it ever come to pass will keep it at bay.

    There's only one way to know for sure. Ask a Google Fiber subscriber if indeed that is the case.
  • Reply 19 of 37


    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

    There's only one way to know for sure. Ask a Google Fiber subscriber if indeed that is the case.


     


    Oh, it's certainly not the case now. They wouldn't get anyone to switch from the old system if it were.

  • Reply 20 of 37

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Wish they'd focus more on the landline gigabit Internet they promised. You know, build that out, terrify the existing Internet providers, force them to upgrade their services, and then whatever happens happens.




    If Google winds up being my ISP, I'm fine with that. Sure, they'll look at absolutely everything I do, but they can't do squat with it! I don't use any Google services, so I won't be served any ads based on anything I've surfed! They can't make any money off me that way, and their advertisers will learn that!


     


    "So they'll just inject ad HTML pages in between every 50th URL you visit."


     


    And that will instantly destroy that part of their company, leaving behind an upgraded infrastructure taken over by honorable (well, less disreputable) companies. No one would accept their browsing being hijacked by their ISP for the purpose of serving ads.



    Many of the websites you visit use Google either directly or indirectly as their ad provider so using Google as your ISP will change the advertising you see on many sites. You'll see remarkably well targeted ads linked to your internet history and current location.


     


    Currently many people block or delete cookies. If Google is your ISP they won't need cookies to track you.


     


    I also think it's likely that you'll need a Google ID (and thus all the free Google services) to use Google as your ISP. Sure you can choose not to use Gmail, Google+, etc. but it'll be there and by watching everything you do Google will probably be able to create a Google+ identity for you that's at least as accurate as the one you'd create for yourself.


     


    Well targeted ads set off my creepy stalker alarm. My solution is to boycott any business that seems to know too much about me.

Sign In or Register to comment.