Well, I for one don't want to find out if there is a tipping point where the proliferation of Android devices increases to the point where it compels developers to build for Android first, or, worst case scenario, where it marginalizes Apple even more causing a huge decrease in profits.
I'm not saying that there is a tipping point but the danger is definitely there and, as we've seen with the Mac, it's a long climb back.
[please know that I am mainly concerned about the Asian market]
I agree with your premise. However... the Mac has always had single-digit market share compared to Windows... but it still has PLENTY of great software available.
If you were a developer... you'd think Windows is the place to be since there are so many potential customers. But how many of those customers actually purchase software? (excluding MS Office... that another thing altogether)
The Mac is still around today despite getting creamed by Windows decade after decade. And the software is there too.
I think we're seeing the same sorta thing happen on mobile platforms.
No one can argue that Android is the dominant platform (in market share)... but iOS is where the action is for developers.
Apple has had a relationship with people and their credit cards for almost a decade... and they make it easy to buy apps for your iPhone and iPad. Apple has less market share... but the users they do have love to buy apps.
On the flipside... Android has the numbers... but how many paying customers? There are huge amounts of Android users that can't even get the Google Play store in their country.
I don't think we'll see too many situations where a developer quits making iOS apps altogether. The split is already 70%-20% in Android's favor. But Apple's 20% is still hundreds of millions of (paying) customers.
The gulf between iOS and Android seems to keep widening. Both Apple & Google will continue to grow but I wonder how long it will be before Android has something like 90% Market share and Apple has 6% with everyone else making up the rest.
Sure Apple will likely control the profit margins, but it’s going very much like the Mac vs PC era.
There are no parallels between the "Mac vs PC era" and the, for lack of a better name, smartphone era, so, why is it going to be, "very much like the Mac vs PC era?"
Cost is one thing but control is key. Apple appears willing to play ball with the Chinese government ..
True. I remember back when the first iPhones were sold in China without WiFi. Much easier to track people without it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sagan_student
This will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I look at this and think there is a viable concern for apple here. The concern being information. When you're able to collect vasts amounts of information from a huge sea of smartphones, 'true' smart phones or 'glorified feature' phones they still provide information, you're in an excellent position. Huge numbers of information devices, regardless of how much they cost, is key to providing features that aren't possible with other OS's that have a smaller sample size to mine from.
Apple came out with Siri and Apple Maps, partly so they could share in all the information collection that's going on.
Combined with all the iTunes info (address, credit, media and app sales) they have on most people, they're then able to sell highly targeted ad slots (just like Google) via their iAds business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
All recent statistics show that iOS devices get used more than Android so that isn't a concern for Apple or at least not yet.
Since most of those statistics from from ad brokers, all they really prove is that more ads from that broker are seen by iOS users in total. Which is their entire point in releasing what's really an ad for their brokerage.
The total, btw, includes iPads and iPod touch. If you read their reports closer, they always state that phone usage is even.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I provided quite a few examples when this came up before. Google 'android feature phone'.
The first one is mislabeled. The others never happened, as far as I can tell.
This is not to say that Android wouldn't make a good base for a feature phone, but once they get that far in the design, I think the carriers go hey we want them to use data :-)
For the foil-hat crowd another recent change to all the smartphone OS's, including iOS, raises questions about how much access goverments have to our communication devices.
Are you suggesting that Android OEMs and Google aren't complying with the law and doing this too? Just wondering because of your emphasis on Apple, and lack of mention of Android. I mean, I know Google often doesn't comply with the law, but I doubt they've stopped Android phones from complying in this instance.
I agree with your premise. However... the Mac has always had single-digit market share compared to Windows... but it still has PLENTY of great software available.
If you were a developer... you'd think Windows is the place to be since there are so many potential customers. But how many of those customers actually purchase software? (excluding MS Office... that another thing altogether)
The Mac is still around today despite getting creamed by Windows decade after decade. And the software is there too.
Etc.
Well, as much as that may be true today it certainly wasn't true in the 90s.
One of the areas that Macs truly suffered was in the area of specialized software (ie. for controlling machinery, accounting programs). True there were Mac alternatives but the deluge of software for specialized areas was overwhelmingly in favour of the pc. The computer that people used in business tended to be what they used at home.
You also must remember that Mac was on its last legs before Steve came back. Without him I'd hate to think of where Apple would be today. Would it still be around today?
Which brings up another point. Do you really want Apple to be where it was in the 90s? Almost losing MS support for Office. Dying with puny revenue and profit in comparison to today.
You are comparing where Apple is at today... not Apple during the height of the Mac vs. PC war (for lack of a better word). If you are going to talk about Macs that's the era to revisit.
... but I never brought up Macs vs. PCs in comparison to iOS vs. Android in my initial statement... I just wanted to clarify something. (... and I did clarify that Asia was my main concern)
... and not once have I said that Apple couldn't remain profitable... but I have said it could become much smaller.
Android = 70.1%? And yet and yet and yet... The fandroids never say "Google needs competition"? Why is that? Why do they praise a smartphone OS hegemony under Google?
The following "excuses" are old and we all need to get over them:
- Android activations include multiple activations for the same device (remember this one).
- Samsung only reports shipments and not sales.
- Salespeople undersell iPhones.
- Only the frugal prefer Android.
- Android is only winning in Asia and other 3rd world regions.
Good points. However... you do need to realize that Android is the OS of choice on the cheaper phones. Apple doesn't represent those markets (yet)
There are plenty of people around the world who can only afford a $100 or $200 unlocked phone. I'm certainly not saying "Android is only for poor people" but it's fair to say that a certain percentage of Android users are low income or 3rd world customers.
In the world's largest market... China... the average price for an Android phone is $220.
That's a lot of non-flagship Android phones contributing to Android's market share.
On the flipside... Android has the numbers... but how many paying customers? There are huge amounts of Android users that can't even get the Google Play store in their country.
According to a recent article Apple's Appstore is collecting nearly 4 times the daily revenue of Google Play, but Google's store revenue is growing faster than Apple's (as would be expected).
As far as country availability is concerned Google made a significant push in the latter part of 2012, adding quite a few countries. They could now actually have broader coverage than Apple's appstore rather than less.
Well, as much as that may be true today it certainly wasn't true in the 90s.
One of the areas that Macs truly suffered was in the area of specialized software (ie. for controlling machinery, accounting programs). True there were Mac alternatives but the deluge of software for specialized areas was overwhelmingly in favour of the pc. The computer that people used in business tended to be what they used at home.
You also must remember that Mac was on its last legs before Steve came back. Without him I'd hate to think of where Apple would be today. Would it still be around today?
Which brings up another point. Do you really want Apple to be where it was in the 90s? Almost losing MS support for Office. Dying with puny revenue and profit in comparison to today.
You are comparing where Apple is at today... not Apple during the height of the Mac vs. PC war (for lack of a better word). If you are going to talk about Macs that's the era to revisit.
... but I never brought up Macs vs. PCs in comparison to iOS vs. Android in my initial statement... I just wanted to clarify something.
For sure... Apple in the 90s was a bad situation.
And that was kinda my point... Apple today is nowhere like that (even if they face a similar market share disadvantage once again)
Even with the Mac at 8% market share... people still love their Macs and developers keep making money selling Mac software. That's the key.
My point was... you don't need a lot of market share (or even a significant amount) to stay relevant. And I was saying that in response to your "tipping point" comment earlier.
Clearly the developers aren't dropping iOS because of its low market share
Are you suggesting that Android OEMs and Google aren't complying with the law and doing this too? Just wondering because of your emphasis on Apple, and lack of mention of Android. I mean, I know Google often doesn't comply with the law, but I doubt they've stopped Android phones from complying in this instance.
I imagine he was emphasizing Apple because many posters on this site automatically assume Google is selling out users to either the government or other corporations while assuming that Apple protects its users at all costs. He was showing you that your beliefs are at least partially incorrect.
I agree with your premise. However... the Mac has always had single-digit market share compared to Windows... but it still has PLENTY of great software available.
No, there is not! Since many around here are shareholders I think you've heard of Tradestation? Where is the Mac version for Tradestation? Where is the Mac version for NinjaTrader? eSignal? Multicharts? Sierra Charts? If you are trading you are stuck with programs that run under Java. This is one reason why I never bought a Mac. It doesn't have the software that I need.
And that was kinda my point... Apple today is nowhere like that (even if they face a similar market share disadvantage once again)
Even with the Mac at 8% market share... people still love their Macs and developers keep making money selling Mac software. That's the key.
My point was... you don't need a lot of market share (or even a significant amount) to stay relevant. And I was saying that in response to your "tipping point" comment earlier.
Clearly the developers aren't dropping iOS because of its low market share
.
You are not getting it.
What I am saying is that Apple today could be at the point that Apple was at in 1988. Apple was doing well. Sculley had improved Apple's position considerably but he had absolutely no answer to Windows and the cheap PC. Without Steve's vision, or any vision whatsoever, Apple started treating Macs like soft drinks. Apple tried hard to come back but only began to flounder badly under 2 successive CEOs.
If you are going to talk about Macs vs. PCs then you have to review your history. You talk as if any person could have brought Apple back from the brink. Sculley couldn't do it. Spindler couldn't do it. ... and Amelio was doing better but then he hired Steve, which was the magic bullet. How many Steves do we have lying around to hire if things do start going south.
I don't think Apple would be around today if it hadn't been for Steve. If that was the case then your theory doesn't hold water and that's what I said... I don't want to find out if there is a tipping point... when Steve's vision is lost then what happens next.
Good position today? Sure. Good position tomorrow? Who's to say. I'm just saying that if you start comparing Macs to PCs, don't give me this crap about Macs still doing well today. That was purely because of one man. I can only hope that Cook isn't Sculley... and, lord save us, Spindler.
[if any is going to ask me if I know the answer... well, no I don't... but I'm damned sure it aint in a hair thin margin bottom of the barrel Performa phone sold at Sears and any corner store. ... but maybe for Asia only a slightly lower margin larger phone with an older processor but great battery life... then again, I also feel that a premium larger phone is a good idea for everywhere]
No, there is not! Since many around here are shareholders I think you've heard of Tradestation? Where is the Mac version for Tradestation? Where is the Mac version for NinjaTrader? eSignal? Multicharts? Sierra Charts? If you are trading you are stuck with programs that run under Java. This is one reason why I never bought a Mac. It doesn't have the software that I need.
You missed my point.
Is the Mac a popular platform despite only having a tiny percentage of market share? YES
This is how things looks right now. The biggest danger is that if Apple fall to 6% developers will stop creating the best apps for iOS. I don't know how was the software situation when Microsoft defeated Apple in the '90. Anyway Apple is not yet defeated. If they give up the greedy margin, start making a lot of phones, modernize the iOS, start including all the cutting edge advancements in the iPhones, take more wild bets like Google is doing with their glasses and self driving cars, they could still win.
As long as the developers are actually making money on IOS which is something that they are not doing on this platform that supposedly has 70% of the market, they will continue to develop for it. The reason they can't make money on Android is because 70% of them are cheap glorified feature phones that can't support real apps. Half of what's left is stuck on 2 year old versions of their OS so if the write for the new OS many of this 70% "shipped" will never buy an app. Wild bets don't create the kinds of products that people learn to trust you for. Smart people don't trust companies who provide a barrage of junk products that 80% of the fail. Even if you just sold your soul to them to get it free, you still invested time and energy into testing out their idea for them. When it fails to catch on they just shut it down.
As long as the developers are actually making money on IOS which is something that they are not doing on this platform that supposedly has 70% of the market, they will continue to develop for it.
I remember some survey from last year that supposedly showed more than half of all iOS developers lose money. I think there was another that showed half of all iOS app revenue was going to just 25 developers. Yet another I linked somewhere here earlier today claimed just 6 iOS tablet apps were taking 10% of the total tablet app revenue. It looks to me to be either feast or famine if you're a developer.
What I am saying is that Apple today could be at the point that Apple was at in 1988. Apple was doing well. Sculley had improved Apple's position considerably but he had absolutely no answer to Windows and the cheap PC. Without Steve's vision, or any vision whatsoever, Apple started treating Macs like soft drinks. Apple tried hard to come back but only began to flounder badly under 2 successive CEOs.
If you are going to talk about Macs vs. PCs then you have to review your history. You talk as if any person could have brought Apple back from the brink. Sculley couldn't do it. Spindler couldn't do it. ... and Amelio was doing better but then he hired Steve, which was the magic bullet. How many Steves do we have lying around to hire if things do start going south.
I don't think Apple would be around today if it hadn't been for Steve. If that was the case then your theory doesn't hold water and that's what I said... I don't want to find out if there is a tipping point where when Steve's vision is lost then what happens next.
Good position today? Sure. Good position tomorrow? Who's to say. I'm just saying that if you start comparing Macs to PCs, don't give me this crap about Macs still doing well today. That was purely because of one man. I can only hope that Cook isn't Sculley... and, lord save us, Spindler.
Fine... forget everything I said about the Mac... let's stick to iOS.
70% to 20% sounds bad... right?
But it's really not. Even though the iPhone only has 20% of worldwide smartphone market share... the iPhone is still doing ridiculously well.
I'M SAYING THE MARKET SHARE NUMBERS DON'T MATTER
Even if it ended up being Android 90% and Apple 5%... there would still be hundreds of millions of iPhones out in the world. And tons of people buying apps, games, cases and accessories. It's a proven platform with a lot going for it.
IF... and it's a big IF.... if developers starting losing money on iOS... then we'd see a shift. But I'm seeing no indication of that.
Like genovelle said above... what good is all that Android market share if the bulk of devices are crappy phones stuck on an older OS?
Again... having a lower market share number is not the end of the world...
Fine... forget everything I said about the Mac... let's stick to iOS.
70% to 20% sounds bad... right?
But it's really not. Even though the iPhone only has 20% of worldwide smartphone market share... the iPhone is still doing ridiculously well.
I'M SAYING THE MARKET SHARE NUMBERS DON'T MATTER
Even if it ended up being Android 90% and Apple 5%... there would still be hundreds of millions of iPhones out in the world. And tons of people buying apps, games, cases and accessories. It's a proven platform with a lot going for it.
IF... and it's a big IF.... if developers starting losing money on iOS... then we'd see a shift. But I'm seeing no indication of that.
Like genovelle said above... what good is all that Android market share if the bulk of devices are crappy phones stuck on an older OS?
Again... having a lower market share number is not the end of the world...
Oh boy...
So the Mac vs. PC thing wasn't working... so let's shift the argument.
Look back at my original argument. We're talking mostly about the Asian market. No matter who is making profit... if you ended up with a 95% Android (devoid of Google's crap) vs. 5% Apple, then, just like old days, there is a damn good chance that developers would feel "compelled" to market Android apps first, regardless if their profit margins were higher for the Mac.
As I said, there has to be an answer for the cheap smartphone or, yes, this could end up being Apple in 1992.
This whole business that market share doesn't matter is bullshit in my opinion. If you lose enough of it then your company gets smaller. You may or not retain profit but that is also up for debate.
The answer doesn't have to be another smartphone. Yes, Steve answered the Mac question first with the iMac, but then he branched out with the iPod, iPhone and then iPad.
Using your theory, let's imagine that Steve just stuck with Macs. Profitable. Maybe. ... but how big would Apple be today?
Comments
I agree with your premise. However... the Mac has always had single-digit market share compared to Windows... but it still has PLENTY of great software available.
If you were a developer... you'd think Windows is the place to be since there are so many potential customers. But how many of those customers actually purchase software? (excluding MS Office... that another thing altogether)
The Mac is still around today despite getting creamed by Windows decade after decade. And the software is there too.
I think we're seeing the same sorta thing happen on mobile platforms.
No one can argue that Android is the dominant platform (in market share)... but iOS is where the action is for developers.
Apple has had a relationship with people and their credit cards for almost a decade... and they make it easy to buy apps for your iPhone and iPad. Apple has less market share... but the users they do have love to buy apps.
On the flipside... Android has the numbers... but how many paying customers? There are huge amounts of Android users that can't even get the Google Play store in their country.
I don't think we'll see too many situations where a developer quits making iOS apps altogether. The split is already 70%-20% in Android's favor. But Apple's 20% is still hundreds of millions of (paying) customers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek
The gulf between iOS and Android seems to keep widening. Both Apple & Google will continue to grow but I wonder how long it will be before Android has something like 90% Market share and Apple has 6% with everyone else making up the rest.
Sure Apple will likely control the profit margins, but it’s going very much like the Mac vs PC era.
There are no parallels between the "Mac vs PC era" and the, for lack of a better name, smartphone era, so, why is it going to be, "very much like the Mac vs PC era?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Cost is one thing but control is key. Apple appears willing to play ball with the Chinese government ..
True. I remember back when the first iPhones were sold in China without WiFi. Much easier to track people without it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sagan_student
This will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I look at this and think there is a viable concern for apple here. The concern being information. When you're able to collect vasts amounts of information from a huge sea of smartphones, 'true' smart phones or 'glorified feature' phones they still provide information, you're in an excellent position. Huge numbers of information devices, regardless of how much they cost, is key to providing features that aren't possible with other OS's that have a smaller sample size to mine from.
Apple came out with Siri and Apple Maps, partly so they could share in all the information collection that's going on.
Combined with all the iTunes info (address, credit, media and app sales) they have on most people, they're then able to sell highly targeted ad slots (just like Google) via their iAds business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
All recent statistics show that iOS devices get used more than Android so that isn't a concern for Apple or at least not yet.
Since most of those statistics from from ad brokers, all they really prove is that more ads from that broker are seen by iOS users in total. Which is their entire point in releasing what's really an ad for their brokerage.
The total, btw, includes iPads and iPod touch. If you read their reports closer, they always state that phone usage is even.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I provided quite a few examples when this came up before. Google 'android feature phone'.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/samsung-unveils-android-based-galaxy-pro-feature-phone/22864
http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/leap-plans-android-feature-phone-wait-what/2011-10-12
http://brianshall.com/content/android-feature-phone-coming-you-next-year
The first one is mislabeled. The others never happened, as far as I can tell.
This is not to say that Android wouldn't make a good base for a feature phone, but once they get that far in the design, I think the carriers go hey we want them to use data :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
For the foil-hat crowd another recent change to all the smartphone OS's, including iOS, raises questions about how much access goverments have to our communication devices.
http://www.techdevicereviews.org/technology-news/new-apple-ios-6-gives-government-back-door-access-to-control-your-iphone
Are you suggesting that Android OEMs and Google aren't complying with the law and doing this too? Just wondering because of your emphasis on Apple, and lack of mention of Android. I mean, I know Google often doesn't comply with the law, but I doubt they've stopped Android phones from complying in this instance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
I agree with your premise. However... the Mac has always had single-digit market share compared to Windows... but it still has PLENTY of great software available.
If you were a developer... you'd think Windows is the place to be since there are so many potential customers. But how many of those customers actually purchase software? (excluding MS Office... that another thing altogether)
The Mac is still around today despite getting creamed by Windows decade after decade. And the software is there too.
Etc.
Well, as much as that may be true today it certainly wasn't true in the 90s.
One of the areas that Macs truly suffered was in the area of specialized software (ie. for controlling machinery, accounting programs). True there were Mac alternatives but the deluge of software for specialized areas was overwhelmingly in favour of the pc. The computer that people used in business tended to be what they used at home.
You also must remember that Mac was on its last legs before Steve came back. Without him I'd hate to think of where Apple would be today. Would it still be around today?
Which brings up another point. Do you really want Apple to be where it was in the 90s? Almost losing MS support for Office. Dying with puny revenue and profit in comparison to today.
You are comparing where Apple is at today... not Apple during the height of the Mac vs. PC war (for lack of a better word). If you are going to talk about Macs that's the era to revisit.
... but I never brought up Macs vs. PCs in comparison to iOS vs. Android in my initial statement... I just wanted to clarify something. (... and I did clarify that Asia was my main concern)
... and not once have I said that Apple couldn't remain profitable... but I have said it could become much smaller.
And yet and yet and yet... The fandroids never say "Google needs competition"? Why is that? Why do they praise a smartphone OS hegemony under Google?
Good points. However... you do need to realize that Android is the OS of choice on the cheaper phones. Apple doesn't represent those markets (yet)
There are plenty of people around the world who can only afford a $100 or $200 unlocked phone. I'm certainly not saying "Android is only for poor people" but it's fair to say that a certain percentage of Android users are low income or 3rd world customers.
In the world's largest market... China... the average price for an Android phone is $220.
That's a lot of non-flagship Android phones contributing to Android's market share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
On the flipside... Android has the numbers... but how many paying customers? There are huge amounts of Android users that can't even get the Google Play store in their country.
According to a recent article Apple's Appstore is collecting nearly 4 times the daily revenue of Google Play, but Google's store revenue is growing faster than Apple's (as would be expected).
As far as country availability is concerned Google made a significant push in the latter part of 2012, adding quite a few countries. They could now actually have broader coverage than Apple's appstore rather than less.
http://support.google.com/googleplay/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=143779
For sure... Apple in the 90s was a bad situation.
And that was kinda my point... Apple today is nowhere like that (even if they face a similar market share disadvantage once again)
Even with the Mac at 8% market share... people still love their Macs and developers keep making money selling Mac software. That's the key.
My point was... you don't need a lot of market share (or even a significant amount) to stay relevant. And I was saying that in response to your "tipping point" comment earlier.
Clearly the developers aren't dropping iOS because of its low market share
.
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Are you suggesting that Android OEMs and Google aren't complying with the law and doing this too? Just wondering because of your emphasis on Apple, and lack of mention of Android. I mean, I know Google often doesn't comply with the law, but I doubt they've stopped Android phones from complying in this instance.
I imagine he was emphasizing Apple because many posters on this site automatically assume Google is selling out users to either the government or other corporations while assuming that Apple protects its users at all costs. He was showing you that your beliefs are at least partially incorrect.
Oh geez... :no:
The iPhone 4 actually costs $450...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
I agree with your premise. However... the Mac has always had single-digit market share compared to Windows... but it still has PLENTY of great software available.
No, there is not! Since many around here are shareholders I think you've heard of Tradestation? Where is the Mac version for Tradestation? Where is the Mac version for NinjaTrader? eSignal? Multicharts? Sierra Charts? If you are trading you are stuck with programs that run under Java. This is one reason why I never bought a Mac. It doesn't have the software that I need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
For sure... Apple in the 90s was a bad situation.
And that was kinda my point... Apple today is nowhere like that (even if they face a similar market share disadvantage once again)
Even with the Mac at 8% market share... people still love their Macs and developers keep making money selling Mac software. That's the key.
My point was... you don't need a lot of market share (or even a significant amount) to stay relevant. And I was saying that in response to your "tipping point" comment earlier.
Clearly the developers aren't dropping iOS because of its low market share
.
You are not getting it.
What I am saying is that Apple today could be at the point that Apple was at in 1988. Apple was doing well. Sculley had improved Apple's position considerably but he had absolutely no answer to Windows and the cheap PC. Without Steve's vision, or any vision whatsoever, Apple started treating Macs like soft drinks. Apple tried hard to come back but only began to flounder badly under 2 successive CEOs.
If you are going to talk about Macs vs. PCs then you have to review your history. You talk as if any person could have brought Apple back from the brink. Sculley couldn't do it. Spindler couldn't do it. ... and Amelio was doing better but then he hired Steve, which was the magic bullet. How many Steves do we have lying around to hire if things do start going south.
I don't think Apple would be around today if it hadn't been for Steve. If that was the case then your theory doesn't hold water and that's what I said... I don't want to find out if there is a tipping point... when Steve's vision is lost then what happens next.
Good position today? Sure. Good position tomorrow? Who's to say. I'm just saying that if you start comparing Macs to PCs, don't give me this crap about Macs still doing well today. That was purely because of one man. I can only hope that Cook isn't Sculley... and, lord save us, Spindler.
[if any is going to ask me if I know the answer... well, no I don't... but I'm damned sure it aint in a hair thin margin bottom of the barrel Performa phone sold at Sears and any corner store. ... but maybe for Asia only a slightly lower margin larger phone with an older processor but great battery life... then again, I also feel that a premium larger phone is a good idea for everywhere]
You missed my point.
Is the Mac a popular platform despite only having a tiny percentage of market share? YES
Are Mac developers making money? YES
You don't have to be #1 to be in the game.
iOS is only 20% to Android's 70%.... and yet iOS is the more desirable platform for developers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle
As long as the developers are actually making money on IOS which is something that they are not doing on this platform that supposedly has 70% of the market, they will continue to develop for it.
I remember some survey from last year that supposedly showed more than half of all iOS developers lose money. I think there was another that showed half of all iOS app revenue was going to just 25 developers. Yet another I linked somewhere here earlier today claimed just 6 iOS tablet apps were taking 10% of the total tablet app revenue. It looks to me to be either feast or famine if you're a developer.
deleted
Fine... forget everything I said about the Mac... let's stick to iOS.
70% to 20% sounds bad... right?
But it's really not. Even though the iPhone only has 20% of worldwide smartphone market share... the iPhone is still doing ridiculously well.
I'M SAYING THE MARKET SHARE NUMBERS DON'T MATTER
Even if it ended up being Android 90% and Apple 5%... there would still be hundreds of millions of iPhones out in the world. And tons of people buying apps, games, cases and accessories. It's a proven platform with a lot going for it.
IF... and it's a big IF.... if developers starting losing money on iOS... then we'd see a shift. But I'm seeing no indication of that.
Like genovelle said above... what good is all that Android market share if the bulk of devices are crappy phones stuck on an older OS?
Again... having a lower market share number is not the end of the world...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
Fine... forget everything I said about the Mac... let's stick to iOS.
70% to 20% sounds bad... right?
But it's really not. Even though the iPhone only has 20% of worldwide smartphone market share... the iPhone is still doing ridiculously well.
I'M SAYING THE MARKET SHARE NUMBERS DON'T MATTER
Even if it ended up being Android 90% and Apple 5%... there would still be hundreds of millions of iPhones out in the world. And tons of people buying apps, games, cases and accessories. It's a proven platform with a lot going for it.
IF... and it's a big IF.... if developers starting losing money on iOS... then we'd see a shift. But I'm seeing no indication of that.
Like genovelle said above... what good is all that Android market share if the bulk of devices are crappy phones stuck on an older OS?
Again... having a lower market share number is not the end of the world...
Oh boy...
So the Mac vs. PC thing wasn't working... so let's shift the argument.
Look back at my original argument. We're talking mostly about the Asian market. No matter who is making profit... if you ended up with a 95% Android (devoid of Google's crap) vs. 5% Apple, then, just like old days, there is a damn good chance that developers would feel "compelled" to market Android apps first, regardless if their profit margins were higher for the Mac.
As I said, there has to be an answer for the cheap smartphone or, yes, this could end up being Apple in 1992.
This whole business that market share doesn't matter is bullshit in my opinion. If you lose enough of it then your company gets smaller. You may or not retain profit but that is also up for debate.
The answer doesn't have to be another smartphone. Yes, Steve answered the Mac question first with the iMac, but then he branched out with the iPod, iPhone and then iPad.
Using your theory, let's imagine that Steve just stuck with Macs. Profitable. Maybe. ... but how big would Apple be today?