You do know that most of the "Android" phones sold in china are not Google Certified and do not use the Google apps. As a result most of the phones sold in china do not get reported to Google as activations.
Oh yeah... I forgot about that.
So what does that mean for the rest of the planet? Are all Android phones around the globe expensive flagship phones? Or is there still a healthy amount of "cheap" Android phones out there? Does anyone actually know?
Maybe that's why Samsung never reports their sales numbers. If word got out that their "cheap" phones are the volume sellers... it wouldn't look too impressive.
Instead... they give us milestones like "100 million Galaxy phones since 2010"
Considering the total volume of smartphones Samsung sells... 100 million flagship phones spread out over 30 months isn't really that exciting.
So what about the other phones they sold during that time? Why keep that a secret?
You had best do some research. The Mac was well advanced before Steve came along. Jef Raskin was the lead on the Mac and was the one who first went to Xerox Parc.
You might also want to research why Mike Scott didn't want Steve heading the Lisa team.
Steve had some vision during that time but nothing in comparison to what you are endowing upon him.
... and I wasn't comparing Page to Jobs and anybody that says that Page is a slouch has absolutely no credibility.
Yes, Raskin went first to Xerox Parc but his intention was much different than what the Mac ended up being. Raskin lost the leadership position on the Mac and the machine followed Job's vision and not his. Meh, as much as I like some of Raskin's concepts (I worked on ZUIs for a while) he was NOT the father of the Macintosh. He started the project and then it became something else.
As far as Mike Scott not wanting Steve for Lisa, well so what? The Lisa failed under Rosing and the Mac succeeded under Jobs.
Steve had "some vision during that time"? Lol. Talk about having no credibility. Name anyone more visionary in computing that executed on their vision in the 80s.
And I said that Page was a slouch in comparison to Jobs AND Gates, not that he was a slouch. He's probably not a Jerry Yang but he's also not going to be the one that takes down Apple and Cook. He's no Bill Gates even if Google has become the same kind of unethical company.
Yes, Raskin went first to Xerox Parc but his intention was much different than what the Mac ended up being. Raskin lost the leadership position on the Mac and the machine followed Job's vision and not his. Meh, as much as I like some of Raskin's concepts (I worked on ZUIs for a while) he was NOT the father of the Macintosh. He started the project and then it became something else.
As far as Mike Scott not wanting Steve for Lisa, well so what? The Lisa failed under Rosing and the Mac succeeded under Jobs.
Steve had "some vision during that time"? Lol. Talk about having no credibility. Name anyone more visionary in computing that executed on their vision in the 80s.
And I said that Page was a slouch in comparison to Jobs AND Gates, not that he was a slouch. He's probably not a Jerry Yang but he's also not going to be the one that takes down Apple and Cook. He's no Bill Gates even if Google has become the same kind of unethical company.
Complete revisionism.
I could give you page after page of information to refute everything you are saying about the history of the Macintosh but I know you would just disregard it. What color is the sky in your world.
You do know that most of the "Android" phones sold in china are not Google Certified and do not use the Google apps. As a result most of the phones sold in china do not get reported to Google as activations.
The numbers used to compute average price includes all android based phones. Not just Google certified. There's an assload of 3rd party ROMs like MIUI out there but installed by low end manufactures that aren't Google Certified that makes up the majority of android sales in China. MIUI alone has 10M users and is smartwiz/ios like.
If I were running with an Android phone on a regular basis I'd probably load up MIUI and let the chicoms snoop my email. The mascot with the little chinese army cap is cute...
Lol...it's all documented. Any idiot that claims that Jobs wasn't the driving force on the Mac has...as you say...no credibility.
Look at what Jobs created after. Look at what Raskin has created after. Raskin was out by summer of 1981. He was against both the 68000 and the mouse. If Raskin's vision was of a cheap 6809 based machine with 64K of RAM with meta keys and no mouse. It would have been the Canon Cat (1987) which is what Raskin eventually built and it would have bombed just like the Cat did.
Like I said, I did work on ZUIs so I'm familiar with Raskin and his work (I used Piccolo as the basis of my work and not Archy). Brilliant guy. Visionary? Sorta but nothing came of it.
Lol...it's all documented. Any idiot that claims that Jobs wasn't the driving force on the Mac has...as you say...no credibility.
Look at what Jobs created after. Look at what Raskin has created after. Raskin was out by summer of 1981. He was against both the 68000 and the mouse. If Raskin's vision was of a cheap 6809 based machine with 64K of RAM with meta keys and no mouse. It would have been the Canon Cat (1987) which is what Raskin eventually built and it would have bombed just like the Cat did.
Like I said, I did work on ZUIs so I'm familiar with Raskin and his work (I used Piccolo as the basis of my work and not Archy). Brilliant guy. Visionary? Sorta but nothing came of it.
Okay, okay... you're right. I thought it was only Hertzfeld who was saying that Jobs was the main push and I've found a lot of inaccuracies in Hertzfeld's account of those days. One person that I trust, though, is Bill Atkinson, and you are correct, Bill Atkinson says that Raskin was the Father of the Macintosh "Project' but Jobs turned it into something else and is the Father of the Mac, "as we know it".
My apologies.
For the record though, it wasn't Steve who envisioned the information appliance. That was Raskin's idea. Steve brought it to fruition. So, in my mind, that is an important point. Raskin was the visionary for the idea, Steve was the visionary for how it should look. This is an important distinction to me because if Raskin had developed his idea it may have worked out better financially for Apple than Steve's Mac. Price alone may have been a factor. We will never know.
Okay, okay... you're right. I thought it was only Hertzfeld who was saying that Jobs was the main push and I've found a lot of inaccuracies in Hertzfeld's account of those days. One person that I trust, though, is Bill Atkinson, and you are correct, Bill Atkinson says that Raskin was the Father of the Macintosh "Project' but Jobs turned it into something else and is the Father of the Mac.
My apologies.
For the record though, it wasn't Steve who envisioned the information appliance. That was Raskin's idea. Steve brought it to fruition. So, in my mind, that is an important point. Raskin was the visionary for the idea, Steve was the visionary for how it should look.
No problem, yes, Atkinson "recollects" better than Hertzfeld.
And yes, Raskin's idea was information appliance and well, named his company that. But what I and probably you think of in terms of information appliance is not what Raskin imagined. The Canon Cat was an information appliance that did one thing well...office work. Much like a toaster does one thing well...toast things. Or maybe stove is a better example for the Cat. You use it to cook...bake, fry, whatever. You don't use it to do dishes...for that you have a dishwasher appliance.
When I think appliance computing I think iPad...something multirole, general purpose but an appliance like user experience. It works, it's not arcane, it's approachable, etc.
In the Raskin ideal you don't have an iPad with office apps, music apps and games. You have a PDA, an iPod and a DS...each device tailored for the task. There are certainly advantages to this strategy like physical buttons for games.
So a lot to like about Raskin's thinking and I hold him in high regard. I have his book The Humane Interface on my desktop bookshelf within reach. But I think a lot of his concepts appeal more to the computer science purist than to the real world.
According to a recent article Apple's Appstore is collecting nearly 4 times the daily revenue of Google Play, but Google's store revenue is growing faster than Apple's (as would be expected).
As far as country availability is concerned Google made a significant push in the latter part of 2012, adding quite a few countries. They could now actually have broader coverage than Apple's appstore rather than less.
A new report from AppAnnie now says Apple's app store revenue lead has dropped to 3.5 times that of the Google Play app store. Still a big lead for Apple but Google Play does appear to be closing the gap at a faster pace with app revenue doubling over the previous quarter.
[SIZE=14px]I think Apple [SIZE=16px]does[/SIZE] provide certain governments back-door access in exchange for selling devices/services in certain markets.[/SIZE]
I remember a document from last year (?) that indicated both Apple and RIM provide "OS keys" to Indian authorities for spying on users of their devices. As controlling as the Chinese are I have no doubt it's the same there.
The only one I remember is when RIM was threatened by India and some other country about that. If they didn't give a back door, sales would be stopped. A week or so later, the tussle was ended. In fact, in an interview, Lazarious was asked about that, and he walked off rather than answer it. Where was it stated that Apple was offering back doors?
The only one I remember is when RIM was threatened by India and some other country about that. If they didn't give a back door, sales would be stopped. A week or so later, the tussle was ended. In fact, in an interview, Lazarious was asked about that, and he walked off rather than answer it. Where was it stated that Apple was offering back doors?
I gave a link to a document showing that back in post 53 Mel.
The only one I remember is when RIM was threatened by India and some other country about that. If they didn't give a back door, sales would be stopped. A week or so later, the tussle was ended. In fact, in an interview, Lazarious was asked about that, and he walked off rather than answer it. Where was it stated that Apple was offering back doors?
Obviously iOS and Android are easily hackable that these governments didn't need a backdoor. Or did you think their need to snoop stopped because people are now using iPhones?
A new report from AppAnnie now says Apple's app store revenue lead has dropped to 3.5 times that of the Google Play app store. Still a big lead for Apple but Google Play does appear to be closing the gap at a faster pace with app revenue doubling over the previous quarter.
You really don't think so? There used to be a 10-1 revenue advantage the beginning of last year. At least it doesn't look like all gloom and doom anymore for quality developer's concentrating on Android.
You really don't think so? There used to be a 10-1 revenue advantage the beginning of last year. At least it doesn't look like all gloom and doom anymore for quality developer's concentrating on Android.
This is like my 2 year old daughter claiming she's catching up to my 9 year old son in age because now he's only four times as old when last year he was eight times as old last year...
Actually worse because in this case because the absolute gains aren't linear...the app store is gaining dollars at a far faster pace than the Google Play store. The delta is got larger not smaller in december.
This is like my 2 year old daughter claiming she's catching up to my 9 year old son in age because now he's only four times as old when last year he was eight times as old last year...
Actually worse because in this case because the absolute gains aren't linear...the app store is gaining dollars at a far faster pace than the Google Play store. The delta is got larger not smaller in december.
All in how you want to look at the charts NHT. Based on them how do you project iOS compared to Google Play revenues (not even including Amazon's Appstore for Android) by this time next year? Is it possible Google Play may double again even next quarter?
All in how you want to look at the charts NHT. Based on them how do you project iOS compared to Google Play revenues (not even including Amazon's Appstore for Android) by this time next year? Is it possible Google Play may double again even next quarter?
Anything is possible. However looking at the month of december the absolute delta between revenues increased vs decreased in comparison to the absolute delta between revenues in Jan.
For certain the 1Q FY2013 looked good for Google in the chart if you ignore December.
Comments
Oh yeah... I forgot about that.
So what does that mean for the rest of the planet? Are all Android phones around the globe expensive flagship phones? Or is there still a healthy amount of "cheap" Android phones out there? Does anyone actually know?
Maybe that's why Samsung never reports their sales numbers. If word got out that their "cheap" phones are the volume sellers... it wouldn't look too impressive.
Instead... they give us milestones like "100 million Galaxy phones since 2010"
Considering the total volume of smartphones Samsung sells... 100 million flagship phones spread out over 30 months isn't really that exciting.
So what about the other phones they sold during that time? Why keep that a secret?
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
You had best do some research. The Mac was well advanced before Steve came along. Jef Raskin was the lead on the Mac and was the one who first went to Xerox Parc.
You might also want to research why Mike Scott didn't want Steve heading the Lisa team.
Steve had some vision during that time but nothing in comparison to what you are endowing upon him.
... and I wasn't comparing Page to Jobs and anybody that says that Page is a slouch has absolutely no credibility.
Yes, Raskin went first to Xerox Parc but his intention was much different than what the Mac ended up being. Raskin lost the leadership position on the Mac and the machine followed Job's vision and not his. Meh, as much as I like some of Raskin's concepts (I worked on ZUIs for a while) he was NOT the father of the Macintosh. He started the project and then it became something else.
As far as Mike Scott not wanting Steve for Lisa, well so what? The Lisa failed under Rosing and the Mac succeeded under Jobs.
Steve had "some vision during that time"? Lol. Talk about having no credibility. Name anyone more visionary in computing that executed on their vision in the 80s.
And I said that Page was a slouch in comparison to Jobs AND Gates, not that he was a slouch. He's probably not a Jerry Yang but he's also not going to be the one that takes down Apple and Cook. He's no Bill Gates even if Google has become the same kind of unethical company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Yes, Raskin went first to Xerox Parc but his intention was much different than what the Mac ended up being. Raskin lost the leadership position on the Mac and the machine followed Job's vision and not his. Meh, as much as I like some of Raskin's concepts (I worked on ZUIs for a while) he was NOT the father of the Macintosh. He started the project and then it became something else.
As far as Mike Scott not wanting Steve for Lisa, well so what? The Lisa failed under Rosing and the Mac succeeded under Jobs.
Steve had "some vision during that time"? Lol. Talk about having no credibility. Name anyone more visionary in computing that executed on their vision in the 80s.
And I said that Page was a slouch in comparison to Jobs AND Gates, not that he was a slouch. He's probably not a Jerry Yang but he's also not going to be the one that takes down Apple and Cook. He's no Bill Gates even if Google has become the same kind of unethical company.
Complete revisionism.
I could give you page after page of information to refute everything you are saying about the history of the Macintosh but I know you would just disregard it. What color is the sky in your world.
Nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung
You do know that most of the "Android" phones sold in china are not Google Certified and do not use the Google apps. As a result most of the phones sold in china do not get reported to Google as activations.
The numbers used to compute average price includes all android based phones. Not just Google certified. There's an assload of 3rd party ROMs like MIUI out there but installed by low end manufactures that aren't Google Certified that makes up the majority of android sales in China. MIUI alone has 10M users and is smartwiz/ios like.
If I were running with an Android phone on a regular basis I'd probably load up MIUI and let the chicoms snoop my email. The mascot with the little chinese army cap is cute...
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Complete revisionism.
Nice.
Lol...it's all documented. Any idiot that claims that Jobs wasn't the driving force on the Mac has...as you say...no credibility.
Look at what Jobs created after. Look at what Raskin has created after. Raskin was out by summer of 1981. He was against both the 68000 and the mouse. If Raskin's vision was of a cheap 6809 based machine with 64K of RAM with meta keys and no mouse. It would have been the Canon Cat (1987) which is what Raskin eventually built and it would have bombed just like the Cat did.
Like I said, I did work on ZUIs so I'm familiar with Raskin and his work (I used Piccolo as the basis of my work and not Archy). Brilliant guy. Visionary? Sorta but nothing came of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Lol...it's all documented. Any idiot that claims that Jobs wasn't the driving force on the Mac has...as you say...no credibility.
Look at what Jobs created after. Look at what Raskin has created after. Raskin was out by summer of 1981. He was against both the 68000 and the mouse. If Raskin's vision was of a cheap 6809 based machine with 64K of RAM with meta keys and no mouse. It would have been the Canon Cat (1987) which is what Raskin eventually built and it would have bombed just like the Cat did.
Like I said, I did work on ZUIs so I'm familiar with Raskin and his work (I used Piccolo as the basis of my work and not Archy). Brilliant guy. Visionary? Sorta but nothing came of it.
Okay, okay... you're right. I thought it was only Hertzfeld who was saying that Jobs was the main push and I've found a lot of inaccuracies in Hertzfeld's account of those days. One person that I trust, though, is Bill Atkinson, and you are correct, Bill Atkinson says that Raskin was the Father of the Macintosh "Project' but Jobs turned it into something else and is the Father of the Mac, "as we know it".
My apologies.
For the record though, it wasn't Steve who envisioned the information appliance. That was Raskin's idea. Steve brought it to fruition. So, in my mind, that is an important point. Raskin was the visionary for the idea, Steve was the visionary for how it should look. This is an important distinction to me because if Raskin had developed his idea it may have worked out better financially for Apple than Steve's Mac. Price alone may have been a factor. We will never know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Okay, okay... you're right. I thought it was only Hertzfeld who was saying that Jobs was the main push and I've found a lot of inaccuracies in Hertzfeld's account of those days. One person that I trust, though, is Bill Atkinson, and you are correct, Bill Atkinson says that Raskin was the Father of the Macintosh "Project' but Jobs turned it into something else and is the Father of the Mac.
My apologies.
For the record though, it wasn't Steve who envisioned the information appliance. That was Raskin's idea. Steve brought it to fruition. So, in my mind, that is an important point. Raskin was the visionary for the idea, Steve was the visionary for how it should look.
No problem, yes, Atkinson "recollects" better than Hertzfeld.
And yes, Raskin's idea was information appliance and well, named his company that. But what I and probably you think of in terms of information appliance is not what Raskin imagined. The Canon Cat was an information appliance that did one thing well...office work. Much like a toaster does one thing well...toast things. Or maybe stove is a better example for the Cat. You use it to cook...bake, fry, whatever. You don't use it to do dishes...for that you have a dishwasher appliance.
When I think appliance computing I think iPad...something multirole, general purpose but an appliance like user experience. It works, it's not arcane, it's approachable, etc.
In the Raskin ideal you don't have an iPad with office apps, music apps and games. You have a PDA, an iPod and a DS...each device tailored for the task. There are certainly advantages to this strategy like physical buttons for games.
So a lot to like about Raskin's thinking and I hold him in high regard. I have his book The Humane Interface on my desktop bookshelf within reach. But I think a lot of his concepts appeal more to the computer science purist than to the real world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
According to a recent article Apple's Appstore is collecting nearly 4 times the daily revenue of Google Play, but Google's store revenue is growing faster than Apple's (as would be expected).
As far as country availability is concerned Google made a significant push in the latter part of 2012, adding quite a few countries. They could now actually have broader coverage than Apple's appstore rather than less.
http://support.google.com/googleplay/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=143779
A new report from AppAnnie now says Apple's app store revenue lead has dropped to 3.5 times that of the Google Play app store. Still a big lead for Apple but Google Play does appear to be closing the gap at a faster pace with app revenue doubling over the previous quarter.
http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-january-2013/
The only one I remember is when RIM was threatened by India and some other country about that. If they didn't give a back door, sales would be stopped. A week or so later, the tussle was ended. In fact, in an interview, Lazarious was asked about that, and he walked off rather than answer it. Where was it stated that Apple was offering back doors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The only one I remember is when RIM was threatened by India and some other country about that. If they didn't give a back door, sales would be stopped. A week or so later, the tussle was ended. In fact, in an interview, Lazarious was asked about that, and he walked off rather than answer it. Where was it stated that Apple was offering back doors?
I gave a link to a document showing that back in post 53 Mel.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/155670/apples-ios-googles-android-account-for-record-92-of-smartphone-shipments/40#post_2266401
Obviously iOS and Android are easily hackable that these governments didn't need a backdoor. Or did you think their need to snoop stopped because people are now using iPhones?
I hadn't seen that. I suppose they all do from what that says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
A new report from AppAnnie now says Apple's app store revenue lead has dropped to 3.5 times that of the Google Play app store. Still a big lead for Apple but Google Play does appear to be closing the gap at a faster pace with app revenue doubling over the previous quarter.
http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-january-2013/
This isn't really closing the gap.
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
This isn't really closing the gap.
You really don't think so? There used to be a 10-1 revenue advantage the beginning of last year. At least it doesn't look like all gloom and doom anymore for quality developer's concentrating on Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
You really don't think so? There used to be a 10-1 revenue advantage the beginning of last year. At least it doesn't look like all gloom and doom anymore for quality developer's concentrating on Android.
This is like my 2 year old daughter claiming she's catching up to my 9 year old son in age because now he's only four times as old when last year he was eight times as old last year...
Actually worse because in this case because the absolute gains aren't linear...the app store is gaining dollars at a far faster pace than the Google Play store. The delta is got larger not smaller in december.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
This is like my 2 year old daughter claiming she's catching up to my 9 year old son in age because now he's only four times as old when last year he was eight times as old last year...
Actually worse because in this case because the absolute gains aren't linear...the app store is gaining dollars at a far faster pace than the Google Play store. The delta is got larger not smaller in december.
All in how you want to look at the charts NHT. Based on them how do you project iOS compared to Google Play revenues (not even including Amazon's Appstore for Android) by this time next year? Is it possible Google Play may double again even next quarter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
All in how you want to look at the charts NHT. Based on them how do you project iOS compared to Google Play revenues (not even including Amazon's Appstore for Android) by this time next year? Is it possible Google Play may double again even next quarter?
Anything is possible. However looking at the month of december the absolute delta between revenues increased vs decreased in comparison to the absolute delta between revenues in Jan.
For certain the 1Q FY2013 looked good for Google in the chart if you ignore December.
deleted